Add ways to obtain umbra forma

[Deadoon]

3 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Your error is that you are assuming that I am trying to merely complete the game. I have completed the game years ago and now I occasionally one back to complete the  newly added content. Aside from that, I am very interested in seeing red numbers with 7+ digits, and this is why I need umbra mods

You can do that very easily with an incarnon latron with a decent high crit chance riven and any sort of damage boosting effect. I know this because it happens pretty regularly with a sub-200 power strength nourish on my latron, if you used nourish on rhino and used both it and roar, you'd probably get similar results. 

You know what's more interesting though? 7 digit white damage. For that all you need is a basic laetum(no riven needed) and get a good headshot on an enemy with a decently high damage build and some damage boosting abilities. That is a whole lot more fun imo, because it isn't creating a wall of numbers preventing you from seeing enemies.

[Hobie-wan]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Not among people who are intellectually honest.  Whether you are seen as such is largely dependent upon you, so choose prudently.

Considering their other recent posts, I think they can safely be written off.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

6 hours ago, Deadoon said:

You can do that very easily with an incarnon latron with a decent high crit chance riven and any sort of damage boosting effect. I know this because it happens pretty regularly with a sub-200 power strength nourish on my latron, if you used nourish on rhino and used both it and roar, you'd probably get similar results.

You can actually subsume Nourish onto Rhino? I would I expect it to count as a damage ability, and since Rhino already has Roar it wouldn't work. Interesting.

6 hours ago, Deadoon said:

You know what's more interesting though? 7 digit white damage. For that all you need is a basic laetum(no riven needed) and get a good headshot on an enemy with a decently high damage build and some damage boosting abilities. That is a whole lot more fun imo, because it isn't creating a wall of numbers preventing you from seeing enemies.

I don't want to aim in Warframe =D

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

6 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

Considering their other recent posts, I think they can safely be written off.

Why would you be intellectually honest in this economy? Politicians lie all the time, and yet for some reason people still vote for them. It doesn't make sense to tell the truth.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

however, my build is already utilizing all available multipliers.

Well... you clearly arent. I mean heh, you dont have a single elemental mod in your build, so it is quite hard that you utilize "all available multipliers".

13 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Putting elemental damage mods on your melee will render your build suboptimal, as there are many sources of elemental damage other then mods, whereas to obtain melee damage, crit chance, crit damage and attack speed, the best way is through modding.

That isnt how that works. It is very backwards that you think obtaining simple melee damage is better than elemental damage due to already having elements from other sources. You arent building for statuses, so elements, no matter the type, wont make your build sub optimal since no matter which element you slap on there it will result in a multiplicative damage increase. You should for instance skip either Sacrificial Pressure or CO for something like Primed Fever Strike, since PFS increases already modded damage and not base damage. You'd also get more out of another elemental mod instead of Sac Steel since it would give the already exsisting crit mods more to work with when a crit occurs.

13 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

As for WW, it is useless because melees have low status chance, low range and low multishot, so it will  never be as efficient at applying status effects as an AOE primer with high base status chance and high multishot.

Melee doesnt really have low multishot, since it depends on how the combo works, how many times it hits during the animation and how fast the animation is overall. They also dont have low status chance and WW adds 440% status chance at full combo. Also a primer wont leave enough statuses to kill things as you move on, while status applied from a heavy hitting melee will. That also covers your statement regarding status not adding damage, which it clearly does in the shape of DoTs. You are already under a massive misconception if you think melee status was bad in a pre-WitW world, that misconception has grown to be even more innacurate with the release of WitW where an arcane can turn your high status/high crit melee into a 20m AoE nuke. And if you add that arcane to a specific weapon you have a weapon that can kill the map on its own and potentially keep doing so for aslong as the incarnon form is active.

In the end you are stacking too much of the same and hitting heavy diminish return, while also not being fully aware of which damage types are multiplying base damage versus multiplying modded base damage.

[DarkQorvex]

 

On 2024-01-11 at 12:02 PM, Dunkelheit said:

The discussion stops here, because this is blatantly wrong.

My Thoughts Exactly lol

Edited January 28 by Qorvax

[Aruquae]

12 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Maybe read the full conversation before jumping into it, so you understand what's being discussed.

Took your advice and read the conversation again

It seems it started with Umbral mods being “op” and dissolved into dogging on weeping wounds for some reason… I’m not sure how that happened. I think op is one of those escaped Overframe fellows. Not the toxic ones, but the ones that use the top builds that haven’t been updated in 4 years, without any clue that its probably the worst build on there. 

[TeaHands]

13 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

This is normal to exaggerate and divert reality for the purpose of gaining increased attention to the issue at hand

Roundabout way of saying you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Aruquae]

2 minutes ago, TeaHands said:

Roundabout way of saying you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Stealing that phrase, especially considering I used to call molehills “smol mountains”

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I forgot about them and realized I had 9 just sitting there lol. 

[Aruquae]

20 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I see so many people in this thread saying "status builds are godly" or whatever. I invite any of you to show such a build actually beating out a crit build on Steel Path Circulus. Bear in mind, using primers is low end play (it's very slow, only useful if you're new to Steel Path and don't have the fun toys yet) and thus not applicable to this challenge.

Phenmor… Laetum… 

A few examples I enjoy using (devouring attrition for life)

No primer because I detest a weapon used to only buff weapons. Weapons are supposed to do damage 

[Lime-Prime]

 

On 2024-01-08 at 10:44 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

I'm so done with this game, I swear. I have at least 5 unfinished builds just because there is literally no way to obtain umbra forma in this game, and umbra mods are literally so overpowered that you cannot play this game without umbra mods. Add way to buy umbra forma for plat, it doesn't make sense that I can buy other formas for plat but not umbra forma.

So this went from "you cannot play the game without umbra mods" to "I want that last marginal power spike and see the biggest numbers, for my specific build"?

 

 

Edited January 12 by Lime-Prime

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Well... you clearly arent. I mean heh, you dont have a single elemental mod in your build, so it is quite hard that you utilize "all available multipliers".

Why are you saying this to immediately acknowledge in the next paragraph that I have elemental damage from other sources? Please make sense.

[Aruquae]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Well... you clearly arent. I mean heh, you dont have a single elemental mod in your build, so it is quite hard that you utilize "all available multipliers".

That isnt how that works. It is very backwards that you think obtaining simple melee damage is better than elemental damage due to already having elements from other sources. You arent building for statuses, so elements, no matter the type, wont make your build sub optimal since no matter which element you slap on there it will result in a multiplicative damage increase. You should for instance skip either Sacrificial Pressure or CO for something like Primed Fever Strike, since PFS increases already modded damage and not base damage. You'd also get more out of another elemental mod instead of Sac Steel since it would give the already exsisting crit mods more to work with when a crit occurs.

Melee doesnt really have low multishot, since it depends on how the combo works, how many times it hits during the animation and how fast the animation is overall. They also dont have low status chance and WW adds 440% status chance at full combo. Also a primer wont leave enough statuses to kill things as you move on, while status applied from a heavy hitting melee will. That also covers your statement regarding status not adding damage, which it clearly does in the shape of DoTs. You are already under a massive misconception if you think melee status was bad in a pre-WitW world, that misconception has grown to be even more innacurate with the release of WitW where an arcane can turn your high status/high crit melee into a 20m AoE nuke. And if you add that arcane to a specific weapon you have a weapon that can kill the map on its own and potentially keep doing so for aslong as the incarnon form is active.

In the end you are stacking too much of the same and hitting heavy diminish return, while also not being fully aware of which damage types are multiplying base damage versus multiplying modded base damage.

Just a reminder we already established OP not knowing order of operations

Going math on them with diminishing returns and everything isn’t going to work, sadly.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That isnt how that works. It is very backwards that you think obtaining simple melee damage is better than elemental damage due to already having elements from other sources. You arent building for statuses, so elements, no matter the type, wont make your build sub optimal since no matter which element you slap on there it will result in a multiplicative damage increase. You should for instance skip either Sacrificial Pressure or CO for something like Primed Fever Strike, since PFS increases already modded damage and not base damage. You'd also get more out of another elemental mod instead of Sac Steel since it would give the already exsisting crit mods more to work with when a crit occurs.

Wrong. I have 240% corrosive from new melee arcane, 200 and something more % corrosive from saryn’s first and 80~ (I guess 160 since I use melee) toxin from saryn’s whip. Why would I add that primed toxin mod for 160% toxin? On top of that, toxin damage is garbage, it’s not corrosive which is good against armor.

16 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Just a reminder we already established OP not knowing order of operations

Going math on them with diminishing returns and everything isn’t going to work, sadly.

I don’t need children’s acronyms to know the order of operations in math.

1 hour ago, Aruquae said:

Phenmor… Laetum… 

A few examples I enjoy using (devouring attrition for life)

No primer because I detest a weapon used to only buff weapons. Weapons are supposed to do damage 

Both are garbage with many flaws.

Edited January 12 by NorthernDarkIceSoul

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

On top of that, toxin damage is garbage, it’s not corrosive which is good against armor

Corpus says hi

 

2 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Why would I add that primed toxin mod for 160% toxin?

Well if you’re not getting buffs from external sources such as abilities, that mod would be good for corpus, viral, and corrosive.

1 minute ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

I don’t need children’s acronyms to know the order of operations in math

We say PEMDAS in arithmetic, it beats saying “order of operations” billions of times. 

4 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Both are garbage with many flaws.

And I realize you are too far gone to ever make a full recovery. I’m sorry, Tenno 

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Melee doesnt really have low multishot, since it depends on how the combo works, how many times it hits during the animation and how fast the animation is overall. They also dont have low status chance and WW adds 440% status chance at full combo. Also a primer wont leave enough statuses to kill things as you move on, while status applied from a heavy hitting melee will. That also covers your statement regarding status not adding damage, which it clearly does in the shape of DoTs. You are already under a massive misconception if you think melee status was bad in a pre-WitW world, that misconception has grown to be even more innacurate with the release of WitW where an arcane can turn your high status/high crit melee into a 20m AoE nuke. And if you add that arcane to a specific weapon you have a weapon that can kill the map on its own and potentially keep doing so for aslong as the incarnon form is active.

In the end you are stacking too much of the same and hitting heavy diminish return, while also not being fully aware of which damage types are multiplying base damage versus multiplying modded base damage.

You don’t know how to build at all. What’s the point of 440% status chance if the base status chance is 10%? It’s useless, not to mention the lack of AOE and multishot. Primer won’t leave enough status? Have you ever used a primer? One click of bubonico is 14 corrosive and 10 viral AT LEAST, in AOE. Who cares about DoT and how is it even related to this conversation? I don’t use those dumb slash builds anyway.

3 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Well if you’re not getting buffs from external sources such as abilities, that mod would be good for corpus, viral, and corrosive.

And why would I not get full buffs? 

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

4 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Corpus says hi 

Corpus does not appear in any of the recent content, you might as well forget about it. On top of that, I tested my build against corpus and it still performs well enough.

5 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

We say PEMDAS in arithmetic, it beats saying “order of operations” billions of times. 

When you say arithmetic you refer to grade 3 math? Otherwise I don’t know why you would need to mention order of operations at all.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

7 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

And I realize you are too far gone to ever make a full recovery. I’m sorry, Tenno 

I agree that 2000% damage on non crit hit is nice but good luck charging incarnon mode 20 times per mission, also no AOE.

[Aruquae]

2 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

When you say arithmetic you refer to grade 3 math? Otherwise I don’t know why you would need to mention order of operations at all.

Pfft, I said arithmetic when I meant Algebra. I guess you use it in both though. College Arithmetic exists, thankfully I’m not taking that class. 
 

 

2 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

I agree that 2000% damage on non crit hit is nice but good luck charging incarnon mode 20 times per mission, also no AOE.

Can be tedious on infested or sentient ps for charging I admit, but you don’t need incarnon form to do good damage. Also Laetum has AOE 

[Hexerin]

3 hours ago, Aruquae said:

Phenmor… Laetum… 

A few examples I enjoy using (devouring attrition for life)

No primer because I detest a weapon used to only buff weapons. Weapons are supposed to do damage 

Those are both crit weapons, and infamous for being overtuned (not as intensely as Felarx, but for the same reasons).

Edited January 12 by Hexerin

[stormy505]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I forgot about them and realized I had 9 just sitting there lol. 

Yup. I think I value them less than normal forma at this point, cause like, if I can get away with using an umbra forma without forking over the other builds on the frame I'd rather do that then use a normal forma.

[stormy505]

On 2024-01-08 at 1:44 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

and umbra mods are literally so overpowered that you cannot play this game without umbra mods.

Off the top of my head.

8 Frames really should be using umbra forma: Chroma, Grendel, Inaros, Nidus, Lavos, Atlas, Valkyr, Yareli

7 Frames can be built with umbra formas depending on the build: Oberon, Voruna, Sevagoth, Wukong, Kullervo, Saryn, Rhino

3 Frames some people use umbra formas on them, I really disagree with that choice but it can work ig: Khora, Xaku, Trinity

And then Nezha seems insanely decisive. I don't play him enough to have a take but people who use shield gate say health tank falls off way too fast. People who use health tank think shield gate isn't needed till LONG endurance runs and just requires more maintenance than needed.

Of the 15 frames I think it's a ok-good investment on. Only 10 are prime variants, which, like you can invest umbra forma on normal variants of frames I just don't recommend it.

That's not a lot of umbra forma tbh.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

Those are both crit weapons, and infamous for being overtuned (not as intensely as Felarx, but for the same reasons).

Phenmor is a crit weapon?

[Hexerin]

1 minute ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Phenmor is a crit weapon?

Percent chance to deal a multiplier of damage. Yes, they're crit weapons.

It's also what makes the Zariman incarnons so obscene. You build entirely for status, and get godly crit stats for doing so.

Edited January 12 by Hexerin