Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[Psilent_Knight]

Toggle with slight nerf to Helminth version. Enough that it is still an S-Tier Helminth ability and hopefully maintains a similar level of popularity as it has now (but is still not better than the #1 Helminth pick.) Damage reduction is already capped at 75% (Helminth) instead of 95% (on Mirage) for the shadow version which seems fine (especially since that's not what it's usually picked for anyways.) For the light version (weapon damage boost) the bonus is currently reduced from 200% (on Mirage) to 150% (Helminth), maybe nerf the Helminth version to 125%, see how it does, then nerf it again to 100% if necessary.

[gadgetgo]

Mirage: rework for eclipse:

• Could rework her passive instead that shows bounding box-like areas(could be shown as slightly saturated light and dark) between light and dark so for helminth it requires players to remember where the areas are defined; [with this done mirage could(based on development availability) could get a slight rework on her 4 where if it is in shadow it does a base damage, but in light it does modded damage or blinding]. This makes it strong and reliable for mirage’s kit but difficult for other frames that don’t have the passive.
• This makes it so eclipse wouldn't need a nerf or it would just be slight for the helminth helping it to retain its popularity and making the effectiveness of it based on the skill of the player with their memory.
• Standing in beams of light feel like they would be counter to the mechanics/speed of warframe like hydroid’s puddle was, unless there were many of them and their size were affected by range. I like the god-like beam of light coming down from above idea, but I feel it would be better done on a new frame where it fit their kit more than I feel it would fit mirage.

Edited January 26 by gadgetgo

[BahamutFURY]

In order of preference:

1. Tap/Hold Toggle
2. Both benefits at the same time, either continually or alternating based on damage/no damage
3. Fix the thing down there.

[2A1ias]

CONSISTENCY. But remove it's interaction with ambient light. Add synergy with other abilities.  And treat current light levels like a meter. 

 

Tap to shine - every enemy killed makes you brighter & increases the damage. Half effectiveness for Helminth.

Hold to hide - every hit you take fills your "shadow meter" and increases your DR. Max 50% DR for Helminth.

 

Eclipse augment affects the hall of mirrors clones:

When shinning - Works as right now. Clones get the damage bonus.

When hidding - the 4 mirror clones are able to shot primaries & secondaries, no damage bonus.

 

For Mirage:

Casting prism fills your meter to the max. Kills from hall of mirrors also fill the light/shadow meter.

 

Seight of hand: Actually don't know if this is also broken, gems are suppossed to react to light.

But the gems should be decided by your eclipse status. And initially by your energy color brightness (like Equinox' starting form)

Edited January 26 by 2A1ias
I clicked submit before finishing the idea

[(XBOX)DARKGMM]

Absolutely NO toggle, NO hold etc... Make the ability work like it's supposed to!! That means fix the light, or perceived light sources for the ability.
Option 1: That Entrati lamp SHOULD provide 100% next to it, the further away you are to the light, the less it works - the higher the defence becomes (dark). So a gradual change between the light and dark that goes up and down with the luminesce of any given area. Stand in the middle: 50/50 on both attack and defence. 
Option 2: Wherever there is light 100% light, wherever there is shadow 100% dark count.

Personally I'd go for Option 1, it's the most fun, realistic and game-mechanicy version.

Please don't shy away from this way of fixing and choose for the cheapest and shortest cop out by listening to power hungry 'easy' people that only want max everything without gameplay, gimmicks or cool stuff...Like I said, make it lore friendly, make it like it how was supposed to work, like how it was intended. 

[AmmAAmmO]

either tap/hold
OR
leave the current light/dark effect but make it so both DR and damage boost start at 0 upon activating ability and sitting in light/dark areas charges up the correlating effect and not being in the zone doesn't discharge the effect, just pauses the charging

[MEGABIGFORMACOLLECTOR]

Tap and hold reduce helmith duration.

[matt11mz]

I'd say hold cast, tap toggle is the easiest solution. I'll take the extra damage reduction in the name of simplicity if I must.

A more creative, and probably buggier idea is to fix the zones and additionally let customizations affect the lighting, namely through ephemeras.

For example, Smoking Body, Tenebrous, and Fog of War could give night buffs. Fog of War has burning embers making it inferior to Smoking Body, while Tenebruos's "Sentient unlight" gives the best darkness buff. Something like Vengeful Flame could give light bonuses from how bright they glow. Not sure how well that would work, but letting my frame who's wreathed in fire get a light buff would be a good compromise that invites a more creative solution to Tenno who want to force light procs.

We already have Chromatic Blade and subsumed Elemental Ward. I'd be fine giving my frames a literal glow-up to get a fixed buff. You could even go full Chroma, where it's a toggle for Mirage, but set off customizations and general lighting for the Helminth variant.

[jaden3214]

I would like to see it be a toggle/hold ability. However for Helminth, I think it would be a nice idea to give it either one buff or the other (the DR or the Buff to weapons). No toggle, leave out the other half?

[LilinDuco]

My Idea for both Mirage's and the helminth's Eclipse:

Instead of having light levels decide whether you get a damage buff or defensive buff, I would suggest it'd be based on how close you are to a wall. Hear me out!

The player has no control over what the game perceives as a "light" or "dark" area, but the player does have control over their own movement.

 

The ability would work as follows:

Whenever Mirage (or another Warframe) has Eclipse active, they gain a buff depending on their distance to the nearest wall/obstacle/cover. Both the damage and defensive buff should (IMO) have a flat amount that doesn't change depending on light levels or in this case your precise distance to walls.

Close to a wall → get tanky

Out in the open → big damage

This creates a rewarding experience for gamers trying to get the most out of both buffs. When you want to kill enemies you do so out in the open, then when you're taking too much damage or need to reload safely, you can retreat into the shadows created by obstacles/walls/etc.

You can either show these "shadows" visually on the tileset while the ability is active, though this might be a bit hard to implement. Or you could just keep the buff icons and have that be the visual indicator for whether you have the light or dark buff currently. 

 

With this change, the player could make more informed decisions in the heat of battle and Eclipse becomes easier to use on other warframes. This will probably result in the ability becoming even more popular on other warframes, but considering that the current version of Eclipse is the second most popular helminth option despite being really finicky to work with, it might have already been overdue for some balancing.

[LarenaBot]

Lots of people want tap/hold but I think it's the most boring solution. I'd really love to see a change to Eclipse give Mirage more synergy with her abilities, which already have the theming of creating light.

Imagining a version of eclipse where it defaults to the DR mode, and then you activate the damage buff by casting, say, Prism, which creates a cool synergy where you basically switch into glass cannon mode briefly, would be a lot of fun. And it would inherently nerf the Helminth version, because other Warframes can't use Prism. Or some other alternative version, idk. But something more fun than just tap/hold pls 
 

[AzhirahVesryn]

I would like to see it reworked as follows;

On Mirage; Tap or Hold to switch between Damage Reduction and Damage Increase

For Helminth; Tap or Hold, make the cap for Damage Reduction the same as Mirage but reduce the Damage Increase to 70% vs what it is for Mirage @ max strength.

Note: DR is not really the issue with Helminth use and could be buffed for Helminth users for the few use cases where folks would like to build for DR on frames that may not already have it. This would allow for more player options. 

The resource cost and investment in having to choose to do an all strength build on a Warframe (archon shards, primed mods, arcanes, and focus school) to get the max damage boost is in itself a barrier to use. Also, Mirage is an easier frame to get than Hildryn (Pillage) or Grendel (Nourish) which is I think why it is so high in ranking for use. Both of the latter replace Eclipse on builds by players as soon as they have access to them IMO. 

The wonky reliability is just annoying since the lighting conditions are so difficult to visually track as a player, even if they were working as intended. Too many variations on monitor calibration and game settings only compound the visual light/dark issue. 

[FarmingAllDay]

Choice is better with Tap and hold to choose which  wanted with Helminth reduction.. please

[(XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi]

Just remove the dark damage reduction and keep the light damage increase.

One button, one ability

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Tap/Hold Toggle easy and functional. 

[TummyLover]

I’d be alright removing the damage portion entirely on Helminth in favour of consistent damage reduction. Personally I don’t think Helminth needs two Roars 

[Amyriad]

The logical and quickest solution is to make it toggleable and switchable, but that removes a lot of flare for it.

There's also a solution that requires a lot more work, which would be making a (prefferably exilus) augment that gives you that sort of beam interaciton while making the original (understandably) boring, maybe giving it more benifits for risky positional play.

Maybe it can start off weaker, but be made stronger if the shadow/light conditions are met, like how titania's razorwing casts faster in the air.

 

[Zark_Manthra]

Tap/hold would be the best, but as far as the helminth nerf goes maybe do so in a different way, rather than just lowering the numbers further? Such as reducing the starting numbers for the damage buff and damage reduction from 150% and 75% cap, respectively, to something like 60%-80% buff capped at 200% and 30%-40% reduction with the cap raised to 90/95? That way it would require a ton of strength investment to get anything usable out of it, but still be worth using at all. If you just reduce the numbers on the damage buff it would be one thing, but reducing the DR any further from the already barely usable 75% is rather ridiculous. And please for the love of God and all that is holy do not reduce the duration, that just sucks and would feel awful.

Edited January 26 by Zark_Manthra

[Hikuro-93]

Tap Hold toggle. Nerf the helminth a bit, leave Mirage as she is, like suggested on-stream.

I'll take that over the other path.

[--The-Man-in-the-Wall--]

All players will agree that Eclipse should be tap/hold ability.

[SallyBones]

Eclipse functionality is so incoherent and kind of the wrong way round, if you're standing in the open and vulnerable you would rather the Damage resistance rather than if you were illusory in the dark, but since you're always fighting enemies you almost always rather the dps boost.

She needs to be able to create areas of light and dark herself with sustain and keep duration on both. The one or the other style gameplay kills synergies more than it incentivises environmental awareness.

Could make the DR her default and then have the solar buff charge up by hitting enemies with her mines and Disco ball since they literally already are light. Or Maybe crouching or rolling with eclipse charges the lunar buff. 

Mines already inflict a lot of status, maybe have status procs be a source of light that charges solar buff?

 

[Neuro_01]

To maintaint the light and shadows theme for Eclipse, we could make it so when you tap, your surrounding and Mirrage herself would be more enveloped by light and with that, her dmg would increase. And when you would hold ability, your surrounding and Mirrage would get darker, and with that, the dmg reduction would increase. So the dmg increase or dmg reduction would scale in time till the maximum base value. For mirrage it could ramp up to max withing 10 seconds.

As a helmith ability, other warframes would gain just base benefit (maybe like 75dmg increase, 25percent reduction without mods), not the slow increase, since they cannot become the source of light or shadows. 

[Fedelindo]

I personally always wanted eclipse to give a combined 100% buff, meaning if you stand in a spot that is half light/half dark, you would get 50% of the maximum dmg buff and 50% of the maximum dmg reduction at the same time. because lets be real: if i can have only either of the buffs, i always want the maximum stats, so i can totally understand why everyone else wants to make it a toggle. 
i would like for eclipse to show you the light values (examnple:30% light 70% dark etc) and then when you use the ability, the ability takes into account the light values of that specific moment and snapshots them for its duration. but you still have the interface showing you the light values at any given moment so you know what you get if you recast eclipse early. With the augment mod, i would just copy the values of the eclipse-using player to everyone else, so that the partymembers values are determined by the eclipse-using player so its not overcomplicated.
example: 
a) Mirage stand in a spot with 100% light, 0% darkness and has the eclipse augment. Mirage uses eclipse: everyone in range gets full dmg buff, no dmg reduction for the duration.
b) Mirage stands in semi shadow, 70% light, 30% darkness and has the eclipse augment. Mirage uses eclipse: everyone in range gets 70% of the dmg buff and 30% of the dmg reduction for eclipse's duration.
Regarding Helminth: please dont decrease duration or range, but i guess its fair to decrease the dmg buff.
 

 

[Fireboltfury]

Full rework, her kit is very boring and unsynergistic.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

tap/hold. 

Any mandatory helminth NERFS. 

Will be seen as negligible and welcomed over the -mess- of its current unreliable form. 

I heard its the second most used helmith, (Which is fun, cause i avoid it like the plague for how it works)

 

Alternatively, do something like,

Helminth eclipse, stats are -fixed- for the most part. No WILD status bonuses, cant go above a hard cap.. what we can apply is range/duration to work with its augment.

Alternatively, with similar outcome lock it strength effectiveness somewhere in the helminth version.