Could we get more Kahl missions?

[Xzorn]

This is a game mode I quite enjoyed on returning. I tend to enjoy anything that's more limited in Warframe. The New War was great till about half way through for obvious reasons to anyone who's played it. The second you let me use a frame. Whatever you were trying to do isn't going to work. I min/max hard with pages of calculations.

While Kahl is fun for a bit it dries up pretty quickly when there's only 4? missions total.
At this point it's more of a weekly upkeep for Archon Shards than something enjoyable.

You don't even really need to make new tilesets. Just add objects to existing ones with different game modes. Just fill the whole thing out more.

Oh, BTW Jat Kitag misses constantly. I never pick up that weapon. You also might want to consider removing Ignis. It trivializes.

EDIT: Also, also. Blunt doesn't block radial damage. A consistent issue in Warframe. Makes it rather pointless.

 

Edited January 29 by Xzorn

[Mazifet]

Likely not, considering the general community reaction to that update was terrible.

[Hikuro-93]

And make them skippable/missable if we don't do them any given week. Some missions aren't worth it, and the whole system doesn't deserve to get abandoned because players dislike one or two missions, while liking the rest of them.

[Khalox]

That's a strange one... that question, considering the majority think they might as well throw the game mode out entirely.
I don't poke Kahl's missions with a stick either xD.

Edited January 29 by Khalox

[Xzorn]

36 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

Likely not, considering the general community reaction to that update was terrible.

 

I find that odd. Players liked Necramechs which are paired along side frames showing their generally inferior.

I don't know how they feel about Durviri Drifter combat but I enjoy it. Least until Decrees make it brainless.

Duviri Drifter and Kahl are in a similar vein. Least if you ignore the Undercroft which I feel hurts it.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 7 heures, Xzorn a dit :

 

I find that odd. Players liked Necramechs which are paired along side frames showing their generally inferior.

I don't know how they feel about Durviri Drifter combat but I enjoy it. Least until Decrees make it brainless.

Duviri Drifter and Kahl are in a similar vein. Least if you ignore the Undercroft which I feel hurts it.

I think it all boils down to people being just too used zooming about, being immortal with their useless rev prime and just abusing the aoe meta. Never ask this kind of people their opinion about anything unless you just wanna collect some of the worst takes.

All I can ever see is DE trying so hard to make something different for once, but only end up hearing a bunch of ungrateful morons voicing their uneducated opinion on how they hate it because it's different, so they end up either casualizing it and dumbing down everything then they see that everyone's either still displeased or just don't seem to care and the gamemode is forever left to accumulate dust. Railjack? Dumbed down, casualized, then killed off. Necramechs? They gave up right after Bonewidow's awful reception. I doubt we're going to see any more of Kahl missions or anything to extend Operator / Drifter gameplay anytime soon. Also let's not forget about Modular Archwing.

 

Personally I would have loved more missions where you play as Kahl, with maybe more variety on how it all works, maybe could even have had Clem join him. Unfortunately it's just going to be a little content island for your weekly grab of standard archon shard and that's it, just because adding more to it isn't profitable.

[Voltage]

8 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I find that odd. Players liked Necramechs which are paired along side frames showing their generally inferior.

I am sure if Kahl was integrated into your gameplay weilding the Arquebex, people would have a different attitude about it.

People naturally dislike when a mode is added to a game they've played hundreds or thousands of hours in that throws their previous gameplay and progression out the window. Unlike Necramechs, Railjack, Archwing, and K-Drive, Kahl has no integration with the main game besides the Skaut Air Support that just spawns specters in a mission to play for you.

I am all for DE trying new gamemodes as they always do over the years, but when it's an isolated mode that has no integration to your previous progression, it becomes hard to enjoy. Learning the Operator back in 2016 and integrating that into gameplay was a massive change to the game. Running around as Drifter/Kahl with gunplay that has no correlation to the "real" game you play everyday doesn't remotely tickle the same interest.

[Xzorn]

15 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I am sure if Kahl was integrated into your gameplay weilding the Arquebex, people would have a different attitude about it.

People naturally dislike when a mode is added to a game they've played hundreds or thousands of hours in that throws their previous gameplay and progression out the window. Unlike Necramechs, Railjack, Archwing, and K-Drive, Kahl has no integration with the main game besides the Skaut Air Support that just spawns specters in a mission to play for you.

I am all for DE trying new gamemodes as they always do over the years, but when it's an isolated mode that has no integration to your previous progression, it becomes hard to enjoy. Learning the Operator back in 2016 and integrating that into gameplay was a massive change to the game. Running around as Drifter/Kahl with gunplay that has no correlation to the "real" game you play everyday doesn't remotely tickle the same interest.

 

Their integration always falls short though. Operator was only half successful because they're immortal for free revives and life support grabs.
Their functionality was either nerf'd (old Unairu shield) or was comically bad like Madurai beam. It's on the 3rd iteration and still not great.

Drifter and Kahl combat feels more under control. It's not power fantasy which maybe that's why I like it. It feels more intuitive and real.

I mentioned in a previous topic Drifter combat minus the Undercroft is probably the only mode where increased difficulty could be rewarded.
They can't do it in the main game because it's completely out of control and just impossible at this point.

Unlike some of their weirder projects like Lunaro, Wyrmius, Frame Fighter and Happy Zephyr. You get an Archon Shard which is the main game.
Soon being able to combine them (something that should have been there from the start) it will have even more purpose.

[DebrisFlow]

I'd prefer for DE to spend resources on balance and innovation for warframe-based gameplay rather than waste them to salvage something so pointless as Break Narmer. The warframe-based game is not only already rich and original but has a cosmic, yet unexplored, potential, so i really don't get how the answer for a renovated player engagement could come from something so conceptually bland and outdated as Kahl missions. These are basic gameplay that i would expect from 1996, the equivalent of a playstation 1 demo on a fixed rookie-level difficulty. The gap to cover with the rest of the game (mobility, builds, tools) is massive, how's that a viable development choice?

Yes, the base game also became simple and dull because of years of powercreep and recycling of mobile defenses. But how reinventing the demo for [*insert any other generic FPS title here] could be considered a better investment than fixing what you already have, when the obvious choice for a player thirsty for fun/challenge should be to simply play [*insert any other generic FPS title here] and experience a full, balanced campaign with choices for their desired difficulty? 

The strength of all non-warframe content that DE experimented with (operator, archwing, railjack, necramechs, etc) is a product of the integration with the solid originality of warframe-based gameplay. Without the base, these experiments would only be other playstation 1 demos. Kahl mission, on the other hand, are effectively a gameplay island, born out of a meme, and forcefully coerced to the rest of the game only thourgh the carrot at the end od the stick (ironically enough, shards are carrot shaped). 

Break Narmer was a development blunder that should be threated as a sunk fallacy cost, by relegating that to the ludoplex and decoupling the rewards toward the Netracells.

[OfPowerOfWant]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:41 PM, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

All I can ever see is DE trying so hard to make something different for once, but only end up hearing a bunch of ungrateful morons voicing their uneducated opinion .

I was killing grineer for 8yrs before Kahl because thats what i wanted to do and paid money to continually do so

not hang out with grineer, not to be grineer, no matter the "reward"

I was op years ago, they can keep the shards

If DE wishes to publish a game called "Grineer", cool, i wont play or pay for it but you can and i'll be happy for you.

They make choices to "flip" the story. I am not here to be infested either, i Do Not Helminth. I don't insult those who do, not my thing, i dont touch it.

conflating the hybrid material that forms warframes with the actual virus and creatures totally composed of it was a mistake, its like saying if you eat vanilla ice cream, you'll eat bowels of raw beaver butt juice lol. I ignore it because it's not my game, I can play or not but its dumb, derailed a great narrative, closed a lot of options and guaranteed there are tons of things that'll never be killed off. 

I want to kill them, not hang out, even if it means the warframes as well

I want to put "the demon" back in the box, not become it.

Edited February 1 by OfPowerOfWant
grammer

[Joylesstuna]

Please no. This was one of the worst additions ever introduced into Warframe.

[RyllusPurple]

Hoping they add Gorvakk and Avex to Chipper shop. An open world Kahl mission sounds great.

[Aenris]

I rather not. Kahl's missions are slower than Warframe in 2013. I only play his missions to farm shards.

Although when they upgraded his speed and removed the "Under 15m" challenge, I was quite relieved. Playing before that was very painful, now it's average pain. Either way, if DE asks, I don't want more missions for him. Or Veso or Teshin or whatever not-warframe character.

Let me play with my frames, thank you.

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, Aran said:

I rather not. Kahl's missions are slower than Warframe in 2013. I only play his missions to farm shards.

Although when they upgraded his speed and removed the "Under 15m" challenge, I was quite relieved. Playing before that was very painful, now it's average pain. Either way, if DE asks, I don't want more missions for him. Or Veso or Teshin or whatever not-warframe character.

Let me play with my frames, thank you.

 

That's kinda why I like it probably.

Not everything was bad in 2013 Warframe. Aiming was rewarded. Using cover, energy management, Infested were spooky, you could die.

Now I run around using my radar to aim half the time with 0 chance of dying. No taking in the atmosphere, no secrets to find. Just mission spam.

New War was fun until they gave me my frame back. It might as well have ended right there.

[Aenris]

hace 8 minutos, Xzorn dijo:

 

That's kinda why I like it probably.

Not everything was bad in 2013 Warframe. Aiming was rewarded. Using cover, energy management, Infested were spooky, you could die.

Now I run around using my radar to aim half the time with 0 chance of dying. No taking in the atmosphere, no secrets to find. Just mission spam.

New War was fun until they gave me my frame back. It might as well have ended right there.

I understand your pain, but Warframe is not that game anymore. Now it's a super high-octane shooter where you gotta move all the time. Aiming is somewhat rewarded but never required. But I wouldn't blame that on devs: I feel the whole industry has moved on from "taking the atmosphere", since we don't get any downtime in online games or spaces to chat/interact properly.

But even if I miss those times, more Kahl missions wouldn't give that back. Maybe Soulframe will be the answer to that pacing, who knows.

Edited February 1 by Aran

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2024-01-29 at 5:20 PM, Xzorn said:

Drifter and Kahl combat feels more under control. It's not power fantasy which maybe that's why I like it. It feels more intuitive and real.

Drifter combat is kind of sad.  DE spent time and resources making an earnest pass at something a bit more tactical than typical Warframe combat, and you can instantly trivialize all of it by spamming heavy attack with Edun.

 

That said, I honestly enjoy Duviri.  There's enough variety that it stays interesting, even though it's pretty divorced from my arsenal and years of progression.  I can't say the same for Kahl.  Kahl has zero meaningful variety, and zero connection to our arsenal/progression.  And of the two, Kahl is the one with the eternal grind.  Archon shards are even more valuable now that DE has announced plans for combining them to form Tauforged.

 

I don't want more Kahl missions.  I want Chipper to get a stock shop like with Ticker and her debt bonds.  Let players who are done with Kahl, players who hit rank 5, opt to spend credits and star chart resources to buy their weekly stock allotment without the need to engage with the same, tired chores again and again.

 

Kahl was barely tolerable as a one-off quest.  He doesn't deserve a weekly eternal grind.

[Aenris]

hace 19 horas, sunderthefirmament dijo:

I don't want more Kahl missions.  I want Chipper to get a stock shop like with Ticker and her debt bonds.  Let players who are done with Kahl, players who hit rank 5, opt to spend credits and star chart resources to buy their weekly stock allotment without the need to engage with the same, tired chores again and again.

 

Kahl was barely tolerable as a one-off quest.  He doesn't deserve a weekly eternal grind.

Oh man, I would LOVE that

Regarding combat, I understand if people prefers it more slower or less spammy, but Warframe is not that anymore. There's a reason why it was so dissonant to learn warframe playing as the drifter and then jumping into an overpowered frame. And besides, I ended up cheesing all my drifter fights with the Sirocco and decrees hehe. If not for that, I wouldn't even try to play Duviri.

 

[-AncientWarrior-]

Hate the Kahl mode with a passion .. please no more..

[DrivaMain]

Considering how DE's new guard's recent direction of content leans towards "traditional corridor-based horde-shooter agile-space-ninja Warframe", I doubt we will get them anytime soon. Duviri was the last time DE experimented with "unorthodox" gameplay because they were continuing the old guard's work.

Abyss of Dagath? Traditional Warframe.

Whispers in the Wall? Traditional Warframe with open world syndicate and bounties slapped onto it Angels of Zariman style.

Upcoming Dante's Unbound? Again, traditional Warframe which expands upon WiTW.

1999? From the reveal we got, it reeks of traditional Warframe.

The vocal "Warframe Purist" crowd got DE's attention and care, for now.

 

Edited February 3 by DrivaMain

[Merkranire]

I’d be up for more Kahl missions. I jump in every so often just to mix things up a little

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

I wouldn't mind Kahl missions if they didn't force me to scour every corner of super huge maps, taking an hour of my life.

Then I miss something and have to run it a second time...

 

I took a long break and I've noticed they've updated it so it's harder to overlook objectives, but hour long Kahl runs still linger in the back of my mind.

 

Just let me run through and have some fun. Shoot a little. Sneak a little. Kill a thing and get my shard.

If new missions were like that, I'd be down.