Augment rework

[Xzorn]

44 minutes ago, trst said:

Y'know I was going to explain how you're wrong on nearly every single one of these (and even then the bad ones are bad because the base ability is unusable) but it's not worth the effort. Just because you view something as bad or as a band-aid doesn't mean everyone else builds/plays the same way.

 

Why bother to respond then.
It's a waste of both our time if you don't even want to come up with a counter argument.

[trst]

36 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Why bother to respond then.
It's a waste of both our time if you don't even want to come up with a counter argument.

Because the statement is just outright wrong solely on the premise that not everyone plays the same way you do. If you do want some specific examples:

 

Surging Slash and Rising Storm are still relevant as not everyone runs builds that ignore/bypass the Combo system and not everyone is using Kai mods.

Iron Shrapnel does more than just let you recast Iron Skin. Plus recasting Iron Skin isn't that useful of a function since baseline shield gating is more than enough leeway to recast Iron Skin when it expires. Even Reinforcing Stomp would still be useful if Iron Skin could be recasted as maintaining it semi passively is an entirely different approach than constantly refreshing it.

Blazing Pillage absolutely wasn't DOA thanks to status scaling and not everyone running AOE weapons and/or Heat damage.

And even Pool of Life can be relevant thanks to Health Orb effects. Such as stacking Arcane Blessing, gain energy from Equilibrium/Violet Shards, and trigger Synth Fiber/Health Conversion. Sure that all can sound redundant with Energy Vampire and Blessing but consider that the augment could enable using Helminth to remove one of those two abilities.

 

Also even if one wants to say that most players don't use a lot of those augments that's still not justification to just slap them onto a frame's base kit. Just because most players gravitate towards the path of least resistance (regardless of it being to their detriment or not) doesn't mean options should be removed from others. As making them base just homogenizes builds and pushes everyone towards the same setups which goes against the entire point of having mod options.

Edited February 1 by trst

[Xzorn]

Spoiler

20 minutes ago, trst said:

Because the statement is just outright wrong solely on the premise that not everyone plays the same way you do. If you do want some specific examples:

Surging Slash and Rising Storm are still relevant as not everyone runs builds that ignore/bypass the Combo system and not everyone is using Kai mods.

Iron Shrapnel does more than just let you recast Iron Skin. Plus recasting Iron Skin isn't that useful of a function since baseline shield gating is more than enough leeway to recast Iron Skin when it expires. Even Reinforcing Stomp would still be useful if Iron Skin could be recasted as maintaining it semi passively is an entirely different approach than constantly refreshing it.

Blazing Pillage absolutely wasn't DOA thanks to status scaling and not everyone running AOE weapons and/or Heat damage.

And even Pool of Life can be relevant thanks to Health Orb effects. Such as stacking Arcane Blessing, gain energy from Equilibrium/Violet Shards, and trigger Synth Fiber/Health Conversion. Sure that all can sound redundant with Energy Vampire and Blessing but consider that the augment could enable using Helminth to remove one of those two abilities.

Also even if one wants to say that most players don't use a lot of those augments that's still not justification to just slap them onto a frame's base kit. Just because most players gravitate towards the path of least resistance (regardless of it being to their detriment or not) doesn't mean options should be removed from others. As making them base just homogenizes builds and pushes everyone towards the same setups which goes against the entire point of having mod options.

 

 

Surging Slash is no longer relevant because Exalted Blade no longer gains bonus damage from Combo Multiplier. They did not used to use two different combo meters. I used Surging Slash back in the day with Drifting Contact while everyone else played Excal like a turret. You're getting x3.75 multiplier for one skill with a different meter you have to track when Excal needs to focus on being defensive, blinding and mobile. Slash Dash is fine on it's own for what it does, esp thanks to stat sticks.

If you think that's worth a mod slot then fine, go ahead. I don't.

Rhino being able to re-cast Iron skin instead of using Iron Shrapnel gives him better control over his Iron skin value and timing to refresh it. Yes, I'm aware you can shield gate and just always have Iron Skin but you have no control over it and as result your energy economy. I actually want to insure I'm a good teammate by using stomp and roar. If you get caught during those animations. You might not get your free shield gate pass.

Blazing Pillage was DOA because of it's Range. Not because of what it does. I'm not even sure why It's a pillage augment when it's clearly Haven.

Just use Synth Deconstruct if you want health orbs. Any Trinity removing EV and Blessing is not filling their role as a support frame. Blessing should be up 100% EV when needed. Abating Link (which could be better) and swap her 1st for Roar or something similar. Full package support right there. Lets not forget Well of Life makes an enemy immortal which generally annoys other team member. I think about the players I'm with and how to maximize their performance as support.

I'm not saying something should be innate for some random reason. It's because the frame doesn't work right without it. Try playing Voruna without her 4th augment. I can take just about any other frame and destroy that parse. She needs it otherwise she's just a sub-part melee frame. Same with Nova, sure you can shield gate gimmick with rolling guard if you want but you're taking an extra mod slot again. She has two augment for upkeep on her Null Star. It's wasteful and uninteresting.

DE isn't going to let perma immortal Shield Gating last. It might take them a year but you shouldn't count on it when considering augments.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

explain to me how Frost's impeding icewave augment shouldn't be part of his base kit? How icewave slowing enemies down shouldn't just be a thing?

1. No one's going through every single augment with you.

2. They're literally already working on augments. Not sure if you've been on a break but a handful of frames and augments have already been tweaked and updated with more on the way.

Inaros is next, and after that, another frame. 

If you feel they're working too slow for you, then try the actual feedback section or Twitter etc.

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

23 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

2. They're literally already working on augments. Not sure if you've been on a break but a handful of frames and augments have already been tweaked and updated with more on the way.

If I'm remembering right DE was doing them alphabetically, by chance do you remember which letter they stopped at?

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

If I'm remembering right DE was doing them alphabetically, by chance do you remember which letter they stopped at?

Z.  I'm fairly sure what Madurai is thinking of was finished in 2022.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1332235-update-3220-lua’s-prey/

Quote

WARFRAME AUGMENT BUFFS - PART 3 (FINAL) 

I'd expect Inaros might get some augment changes with his rework, just like Hydroid did with his.   And maybe an occasional tweak here and there outside of that.   And there are new augments coming out.  But there's no ongoing augment review operation going on afaict.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2024-01-31 at 5:19 PM, trst said:

Because the statement is just outright wrong solely on the premise that not everyone plays the same way you do. If you do want some specific examples:

 

Surging Slash and Rising Storm are still relevant as not everyone runs builds that ignore/bypass the Combo system and not everyone is using Kai mods.

Iron Shrapnel does more than just let you recast Iron Skin. Plus recasting Iron Skin isn't that useful of a function since baseline shield gating is more than enough leeway to recast Iron Skin when it expires. Even Reinforcing Stomp would still be useful if Iron Skin could be recasted as maintaining it semi passively is an entirely different approach than constantly refreshing it.

Blazing Pillage absolutely wasn't DOA thanks to status scaling and not everyone running AOE weapons and/or Heat damage.

And even Pool of Life can be relevant thanks to Health Orb effects. Such as stacking Arcane Blessing, gain energy from Equilibrium/Violet Shards, and trigger Synth Fiber/Health Conversion. Sure that all can sound redundant with Energy Vampire and Blessing but consider that the augment could enable using Helminth to remove one of those two abilities.

 

Also even if one wants to say that most players don't use a lot of those augments that's still not justification to just slap them onto a frame's base kit. Just because most players gravitate towards the path of least resistance (regardless of it being to their detriment or not) doesn't mean options should be removed from others. As making them base just homogenizes builds and pushes everyone towards the same setups which goes against the entire point of having mod options.

What I like about this comment is that you're taking exploration and experimentation into account. This is the type of thinking that rewards gameplay and promotes diving deeper into what makes, not only effective builds, but fun builds and unexpectedly powerful builds, like me giving Loki fire blast with healing flames and using it after irradiating disarm, making it one of most effective and best team tactics in SP Circuit. Fun discoveries like this always leads me to believe there's even more to unlock without needing all of this proposed consolidated power.

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

@Tiltskillet thanks for clearing that up for me, don't know/forgot they finished that. 🐲👍