i feel like dante is too good ?

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Now that I have actually played him, I can give a more specific take than my prior. I do think he is pretty strong, relative to most other Warframes, in general... but I also think he is very very fun, and actually does a good job, in the sense that, despite having a few different abilities, I do enjoy using and rotating through them. 

I mean a lot of this subjectively, but they do feel like a mix between Equinox and Lavos. Except the way I personally play Equinox, is very narrow, only using two abilities, because aside from potential testing, fun etc I just find... most of the other abilities not really... necessary or fun. Lavos on the other hand, I do personally enjoying mixing elements and using on different abilities, but also often use him with a good gun and not as a pure caster. I am also very aware that many many aren't fans of Lavos, and I am in a minority over how much I enjoy using them. Dante on the other hand, feels like. amore successful combo of the two. There is incentive to use some of your abilities more, and you can get rewarded with various effects. 

I should clarify I have only been playing solo so far, and some of the issues people have been talking about have been team play issues? 

I also personally think, its okay if some Warframes are "more powerful" than others, because thats just going to happen naturally. Its hard to avoid given the way Warframe works with different mission types, tools, tool synergy, progression etc. So in that sense, I personally hold to the idea, that the more interesting and unique tools, are okay being relatively more powerful than peers. Like, in a general simple way. Like an Opticor should be more powerful than say a Karak, since one is a futuristic charge laser that fires a cool big beam, the other is a fairly conventional gun that resembles many guns, even in modern times. It has fast fire rate and you can spray a room with it. I'd rather Dante be meta over say Wukong or Revenant. Not that I want those Warframes to be bad (since they aren't), and I specifically chose them as examples, because they are popular. Often things are popular for certain reasons. Revenant for example, is just really really hard to kill, and so you can be a bit lazier and just not care about trying to hard with him, especially in content like Netracells/Archons where death is punishing. Wukong was popular because you were also hard to kill, had amazing mobility and a perma AI partner... So I kind of like Warframes like Dante being where he is power wise. (Granted, I could see people just spamming certain abilities, but eh, thats not uncommon with many other Warframes). 

Will play some more and play in some team PUBS. At the moment though, eh, hope he isn't nerfed, or if he is, its minimal. I'd probably still enjoy him regardless, but I enjoy like 40 of the current roster. 

[xXADEKXx]

I think is just a review about a bug on status damage. Overguard is okay because in SP isn't enough to survival, the tragedy is okay because is not so much damage for high level mobs. But the status vulnerability is some Strong or buggy. I think just is that, i hope dante still ok the same way and just correct that bug and nothing else. DE always read and listen and is okay if some need equilibrium, but dante is okay with abilities departure and is a real good creation abd that is all we want from a every warframe.

[Yousho]

I don't understand. 

Every frame is OP. It's literally impossible to fail anything in this game if your monitor is turned on. 

What makes Dante so much worse?

[PsychoGlory]

Dante does not deserve a nerf, he is not as strong as many other frames we already have.  If Dante is to be nerfed so should Octavia, Saryn, Mesa, Xaku, Revenant, Mirage, Wisp, Protea.  Do not nerf Dante he does not need nor deserve one.

[xXADEKXx]

hace 1 minuto, PsychoGlory dijo:

Dante no necesita ningún nerf, solo úsalo en el camino de acero. En el mejor de los casos, Dante es simplemente bueno, compárelo con Octavia, Saryn, Xaku, Revenant, Dante simplemente no es tan fuerte como ellos.

Revenant do not need any nerf because he is a tank design and just have 2 good abilities contrary need a buff for do some damage compared to octavia, Saryn, Xaku, Voruna, Kullervo, Excalibur, Gauss, Ivara, etc. That frames actually are OP if u said something about equilibrium. Revenant is a good helmith frame for new players, nothing more.

[PsychoGlory]

How about they nerf  Octavia, Saryn, Mesa, Xaku, Revenant, Mirage, Wisp, Protea instead.  They deserve a nerf far more then Dante.

[xXADEKXx]

hace 21 horas, (PSN)rexis12 dijo:

Personalmente, si están de acuerdo con que Revenant y su aumento proporcionen una habilidad de defensa aún más intrusiva, entonces cualquier comentario sobre que la defensa de Dante sea demasiado es una broma. Si se encuentran con Octavia Mallet y Saryn, entonces cualquier conversación sobre que el daño de Dante es demasiado es una broma. Si están de acuerdo con las curas de Harrow y Trinity, entonces cualquier conversación sobre Dante es una broma. 

Lamento querer coherencia en las supuestas quejas y eventualmente en la 'revisión' de Warframes que aparentemente son 'demasiado fuertes'. 

Overguard is not the problem with Danre overguard is some useless in SP 300+ level. I thibk like to many people Dante have a bug in status damage departure from combined third ability and two. Just that...

[PsychoGlory]

There is no reason to nerf Dante of any other warframe in the game, even if something is strong it causes no harm to other players at all.  The whole point of a game is to be fun, when toxic players demand nerfs they are ruining the fun of other players.  We need to find a way to deal with the toxic players that whine for nerfs.  Leave Dante alone and DE you need to stop listening to toxic players who go out of their way to ruin the fun of other players.

Edited April 4 by PsychoGlory

[DalanorTheLlama]

Quote

we do not nerf things unless it AUTOMATES PLAY, is DISRUPTIVE to a squad, or is DOMINANT in states.

Then can we expect Excalibur, Saryn, Revenant, Wisp, Volt, Khora, Wukong, Mesa, Titania nerfs too? They are very dominant in certain cases as playrates also show it.

[MrDugan]

16 hours ago, EdinaMonsoon said:

the dramatics here... at least wait and see what they're tweaking before having a meltdown

they just need to lower the radius of the abilities and he'll stop being dominant

Wow.  You people could at least make an effort to look like you didn't get your responses off the same tired script.

20 hours ago, RoadCrewWorker said:

He'll be just fine, at least wait for some specifics so anyone actually knows what they're melting down over.

 

14 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The thing I really don't like about the "DE doesn't want us to have fun" crowd is that it is so disingenuous and rude to DE. Of course they want you to have fun. AND they care about their game. You don't have to bash DE for taking corrective action that is sorely needed.

That's your perspective.  I see it as developer ego.  This game and tons of others, devs see players playing the game in a way they don't intend and they lose their minds over it.  I've seen entire games reworked and ruined because the devs are more obsessed with their "vision" for the game than what players want and enjoy.  And again, you didn't clarify the how or why of it being needed.  You're just stating that it's needed without anything backing that up.  Because I don't think it's needed.  And looking at the comment ratios here and in other threads and the sheer number of threads, as well as on the subreddit, it would seem that a whole lot of people don't want nerfs.  Which is another case of "the players don't know what fun is, I'm the dev, I know what fun is."  Which is also developer ego.  You know what was fun?  I took Dante into a fissure on corpus ship defense, and ended up with a Titania with sunder subsumed.  We were both chill till reactant was acquired, and then both agreed to go absolutely crazy with the nuking.  Whole pub squad stayed for like 25 waves because they were having fun and the most hated map in the game wasn't taking forever to clear so everyone was getting drops at a reasonable rate.  The only places I've seen Dante get hate is Hydron if someone is leveling a frame, fissures if they don't let reactant drop, and people that need to take damage for whatever reason.  A ton of other frames can cause those issues, and they're more down to accidental mismatch of pub squads than a need for nerfs.  That's just going to happen in pubs.

 

13 hours ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

But when we point out even WORSE ones on POPULAR frames like saryn. Wisp. Mirage. That has been untouched for years. As soon someome critizises them its either swept under the rug immediatly or disregarded as someome just hating 'the meta'.

Or on the topic of overguard directly.

Why is no one outraged about styanax or frosts og generation the same way as dantes.

Frosts even comes with free armor strip. Tons of dmg. Cc in the freeze.

But i dont see a SINGLE mention of it.

I know for a fact when JADE comes out. It will be the same crowd screaming for nerfs.

 

Because the entire actual, real problem is just that Dante is everywhere because he's new and a reasonable farm.  Saryn is a pain to farm, and Saryn Prime is vaulted.  The entire thing causing this perceived "dominance" is just that he's not miserable to acquire and actually useful.  That's instantly going to make people like him and cause him to be everywhere, even if people don't like him that much, just because they're leveling him.

 

12 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

*We should be saying something about Nezha's augment too but I guess we can only shout about one thing at a time as a community.

I don't think y'all should be screaming for constant nerfs at all in a PVE game.

 

12 hours ago, moondog548 said:

They did not. 

Watch the 15 min stream before you make a crisis on the forums.

I literally mention the short in the title itself.  That should tell you that I DID watch it.  I have been playing for years, and listening to what the devs say VS what the devs actually do for that whole time.  And "we don't want to nerf him, just tweak him a tiny bit.  We'll make sure he's still good." is absolutely doublespeak for "hope you weren't enjoying Dante."  They burned my ability to trust anything they say a long time ago.  They called in-game mechanics that THEY put in the game that THEY described as working as intended with the way players were using them, as a bug the very second those mechanics made an event easier and they didn't account for it.  And backpedaled when called on it, and called it an exploit instead.  They acted totally clueless as to why anyone was upset over plat being removed from bundles that had historically always come with plat when purchased for real money, and it took a "crisis on the forums" for them to fix that.  9 times out of 10, when they fix something, it's because there's a riot in the forums and the subreddit.  No one is being unreasonable.  Voicing complaints to stop something before it happens is not unreasonable.  If the changes get made and go live, the odds of them getting rolled back if no one likes the changes is slim to none.  They barely ever roll back nerfs that have gone live.  This is the exact time to be voicing complaints about this.

[DalanorTheLlama]

7 hours ago, Halo said:

He came out too perfectly made, stronger than most frames that required full-on reworks or adjustments, tweaks, and augments to make them better.

That's not a Dante problem. That's an everybody else problem. If frames are neglected (there are plenty of outdated frames, look at Oberon for example) or simply released in a bad state (cough Caliban cough) then why people are up in arms when finally we get a decent frame and blame it on Dante? Of course they can't compete in a state like that. Sure it's easier to nerf certain aspects of a single character then reworking half the game but c'mon ...

Also complaints about on hit affects not triggering due to overguard well then again thats a mod / overguard issue. If Arcane Avenger works then let the rest of the stuff work with overguard. Be consistent.

[CrownOfShadows]

1 minute ago, MrDugan said:

I don't think y'all should be screaming for constant nerfs at all in a PVE game.

The idea that a PvE game doesn't need to care about balance is so foolish.

YES, it is WAY less important than in PvP, but we're all playing together. What we do affects other people. It's not a solo game, WF is a coop at heart.

When something gets out of control it affects other players, and that is the criteria DE has repeatedly explained. And it is totally legit. This "never nerf anything" idea wouldn't even work in a purely solo game. Single players games, believe it or not, are balanced by the devs to be engaging and fun. ALL games are. Nobody, not even you, wants a game where they have to do nothing. Remove all challenge, remove all fun. Game design 101.

PvP games require the most balance.

Co-op the next most.   <---------- THIS IS WARFRAME RIGHT HERE

Single player the lowest rung, but honestly still pretty high compared to zero balance.

Real life none.

[KesslerCOIL]

Dante contributes 3 things: Overguard, Status vulnerability and AoE damage(dependant on status damage)  
There are a number of other frames that contribute just as much durability to the team, while contributing other things as well. Styanax gives roughly 40% less overguard with his augment but he also gives a very large amount of energy regen to his team(and shields which is sometimes relevant) and he gets to constantly apply a large number of slash procs to enemies while generating overguard.  
Revenant also gets to make the whole team literally immortal with his augment, on top of having extremely flexible subsume options(unlike Dante), CC and mobility.  
Citrine gives 90% DR and 25hp/5 to the whole team, in addition to giving everyone red crits and again having flexible subsume options.  

I could keep listing warframes, the point is that Dante really isnt gamechanging. He gives a bit more overguard than styanax and does good aoe damage as long as you arent doing very high level content(his kill speed slows drastically once he hits steel path). I didnt even get into the frames that are WAY better at clearing large groups of enemies than him once you hit even remotely difficult content.  
  
So please, if Dante is being looked at, consider the bigger picture instead of just looking at Dante who frankly only really contributes Overguard to high end mission. He doesnt encroach on any of the 3 pillars that were mentioned on stream, his gameplay isnt automated, he's dominant currently because he JUST came out and he doesnt disrupt gameplay anymore than someone like Styanax or Saryn do. To nerf him when he doesnt meet the requirements for any of the pillars? that would be going against your own words.
If you want to nerf the Overguard? sure, but buff Noctua so it's worth actually modding for damage instead of just using it as a buffer.

Edited April 4 by KesslerCOIL

[CrownOfShadows]

22 minutes ago, PsychoGlory said:

There is no reason to nerf Dante of any other warframe in the game, even if something is strong it causes no harm to other players at all.  The whole point of a game is to be fun, when toxic players demand nerfs they are ruining the fun of other players.  What need to find a way to deal with the toxic players that whine for nerfs.  Leave Dante alone and DE you need to stop listening to toxic players who go out of their way to ruin the fun of other players.

This is completely false of course.

We play together and what people do affects others. It's a coop game. We exist in a social space, this is not a single player game. And even a single player game needs to be balanced. People ruining other people's game has an impact, yes it does. The people who pretend that what they are doing doesn't impact anyone else are the ones who are toxic. The people who slam DE for taking appropriate action for the benefit of all are the criminal element. Civilize yourself. Acknowledge others. Respect others. Dial back the selfishness and petulance. Graduate from kindergarten. Think about the greater good, about the community you live in.

And you haven't even seen the nerf numbers yet fcol

[MrDugan]

20 hours ago, WindShadow970 said:

You just echoed my point, the justifiable uproar began when the actual changes were presented, the "when?" is completely at DE's discretion but all the same we need concrete things first before throwing a fit.

I didn't echo your point, because you're wrong.  The complaints started the second they announced any type of nerf.  The complaints literally started in chat during the stream they announced changes in.  The complaints got louder after they presented the changes.  These "don't nerf him at all, just fix the OG interaction."  threads that are everywhere are the initial complaints, and if you think they won't get louder if they announce some nonsense, then you're not paying attention.

[MrDugan]

13 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The idea that a PvE game doesn't need to care about balance is so foolish.

Screaming for nerfs when a frame is a week old is foolish.

 

14 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

YES, it is WAY less important than in PvP, but we're all playing together. What we do affects other people. It's not a solo game, WF is a coop at heart.

Why is it always seen as acceptable to take people going faster or doing more and say "This is co-op, so you have to slow down to my level."  and people like you always refuse to take the other perspective of "This is co-op so you need to move up to my speed."  Dante is "disruptive" to slower, less aggressive players in low level content.  He's no where close to being OP in higher level content, where his 4 requires actual set up to be strong.  I can be disruptive to the same degree in any lower level content with tons of different gear.  Including completely off-meta stuff.  You're arguing for balance and saying he creates a lack of challenge, but you're taking an endgame frame to low level areas.  I can use equinox and literally stand still and do nothing and nuke an earth lith defense fissure so fast that no reactant drops and the enemies never make it close to the main platform.  Gauss and Saryn can make Hydron feel like there are no spawns.  You're talking about balance in a game that cannot be balanced the way you're implying because enemy power scale goes from dealing no damage to frames with 1200+ armor, to one-shotting any amount of health or overguard.  Enemy power scale goes through the roof, and so player power scale does as well.  You cannot have player power scale that is capable of keeping up with SP enemies and then have that same player not be disruptive in normal fissures and leveling in Hydron.  But people like you are sitting here talking about Dante like HE's the problem with balance in a game with this massive of a power spectrum for players and enemies alike.  If you don't like disruptive levels of power in low level content, then your problem is with the overall game design, and the sheer amount of power progression that happens as a whole.  Not Dante.

[MrDugan]

On 2024-04-02 at 5:09 PM, (XBOX)Timidobserver said:

I've been seeing people starting to leave missions with a Dante in the group. Any of you Dante mains noticing any of that?

I don't think people leaving because they don't want to play with Dante means anything important.  I've had people talk trash or leave squad for all sorts of stupid reasons.  

[MrDugan]

27 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

People ruining other people's game has an impact

How is you crying for nerfs not ruining other people's fun and having a negative impact for those people?  Which of these sounds more reasonable?  My fun gets ruined in every mission I'm in, solo or not, because MY fun made YOU mad, or, single instances of only some multiplayer missions get ruined for you because someone else's fun made YOU mad?

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, Waeleto said:

It's because chroma can't activate vex armor through combat discipline and nidus can't gain energy from hunter adrenaline or rage

 

I play Chroma a lot. Min/Maxed to perfection. He doesn't really have an issue with Overguard.

His offensive Vex solves itself since enemy damage scales exponentially and defense does not. Nidus probably shouldn't be using Hunters. Energize is much better for him given he has CC. Better to rely on kill rate than enemies hitting you. The same applies to Chroma, once you max vex offense you try not to get hit.

It's also Affinity range. If it's that big of an issue to snap shot Vex just run off for a minute.

[MrDugan]

On 2024-03-31 at 4:45 PM, PublikDomain said:

When surveyed by DE themselves the majority of players report valuing build customization, gear balance, cooperative missions, and difficult content, and a majority of players feel that powercreep should be avoided.

  Hide contents

This is reality. The game has powercrept to the point where the consequences can't be ignored or hand-waved away, and it's obvious to anyone paying even a little bit of attention. The starting level for content in quests and on the starchart is getting higher and higher. DE says out loud that they have trouble developing content that challenges us, and they're constantly inventing new ways to counter player power like Damage Attenuation or Overguard or random gear or no gear at all. Console hosts can't even spawn enough enemies to match the current level of player power, for one player let alone four! And it's becoming more and more common to see complaints that some players feel they don't even get to play anymore because one person can hog the entire game to themselves. The AoE and AFK nerfs were made in part because of this very problem!

All that really seems to have changed is that this majority of players aren't putting up with the tired "just play solo" retorts anymore.

Isn't that a graph from the dude who clarfifies every time "I am not affiliated with DE."

[Waeleto]

7 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

I play Chroma a lot. Min/Maxed to perfection. He doesn't really have an issue with Overguard.

His offensive Vex solves itself since enemy damage scales exponentially and defense does not. Nidus probably shouldn't be using Hunters. Energize is much better for him given he has CC. Better to rely on kill rate than enemies hitting you. The same applies to Chroma, once you max vex offense you try not to get hit.

It's also Affinity range. If it's that big of an issue to snap shot Vex just run off for a minute.

Maybe it wasn't chroma mains who complained then, maybe it was rhino and kullervo mains who knows, they could've been annoyed at dante having better overguard but that's info we can't verify sadly

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

Welp. Looks like the nerf crowd won. DE are taking feedback from the whiners and the first frame that came out perfect out of the gate is going to get dumpstered. (DE says they won't be heavy handed with it, but I know their pants are on fire).

Thanks for nothing!

[Waeleto]

13 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Welp. Looks like the nerf crowd won. DE are taking feedback from the whiners and the first frame that came out perfect out of the gate is going to get dumpstered. (DE says they won't be heavy handed with it, but I know their pants are on fire).

Thanks for nothing!

What's funny is, During the dev short, Reb said "If you want to paper trail this (dante nerf) we just posted on the forums earlier today (megan's COMMENT not POST)" so yeah the nerf we PROBABLY a result of the post megan commented on, go figure which post that is

Edited April 4 by Waeleto

[Xenevier]

4 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

What's funny is, During the dev short, Reb said "If you want to paper trail this (dante nerf) we just posted on the forums earlier today (megan's COMMENT not POST)" so yeah the nerf we probably a result of the post megan commented on, go figure which post that is

are you saying you legit think a single post made the digital entertainment company rethink their balancing act? the reason megan responded to that post is maybe at the time and even now it has the highest view and replies out of any of the posts in general discussion and she would want her comment to be seen by most people possible? i agree that it would have fit better if she made an actual post instead of a comment but there is no way you believe a single post can make DE reevaluate their choices in balance ...

[Waeleto]

Just now, Xenevier said:

are you saying you legit think a single post made the digital entertainment company rethink their balancing act? the reason megan responded to that post is maybe at the time and even now it has the highest view and replies out of any of the posts in general discussion and she would want her comment to be seen by most people possible? i agree that it would have fit better if she made an actual post instead of a comment but there is no way you believe a single post can make DE reevaluate their choices in balance ...

It's not me who believe that i'm just pointing things out that were pointed out by certain warframe streamers that shall not be named, either way we'll never know