i feel like dante is too good ?

[Venus-Venera]

"FIX OVERGUARD  "

How can you fix a "problem" (alleged problem) that doesn't exist?
I have more than 9 warframes that are almost immortal and do very good damage in SP missions. I don't need support warframes or whatever.

So who was bothered by this overguard? huh?

[Xzorn]

I kinda doubt they will nerf numerical values for defenses. It's more likely they will force LoS on his offense skills and similar.

There are two situations with Overguard:

• For players Overguard needs to be around 100k and/or instantly refreshed to full values with little to no delay. It isn't a great defensive mechanic otherwise. Rhino, the OG of the mechanic is a prime example of this. He can reach 150-200k and restore that value within his shield gate invulnerability. Kullervo has a lower pool of Overguard and cannot instantly refresh it. He has to spam and get gains over time and thus his survival is drastically lower than Rhino.

 

• For enemies Overguard is incredibly destructive to frame playstyles while also limited "What works" in the game as a whole. This limits creativity in frame designs. It also doesn't really accomplish it's purpose of making Eximus more durable. Esp if you compare previous exponential scaling. Health/Shield scaling can accomplish a lot without being so intrusive. Making better use of enemy Weak Points is also a great alternative to this design. Overguard on enemies is just bad.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

4 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Yeah, people who buy new non-prime frames with platinum, there might be a full dozen.

Nice argument, Senator. But why don't you back that up with a source?

(You most likely: 👇)

 

4 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Oh and yeah, Dante is so hard to farm, couple of runs in Steel Path. It is rare that Warframes are as farmable as Dante.

Last but not least... Dante won't be unusable. I farmed him as well and I have no problems with him being nerfed.

So? That doesn't automatically make it okay for DE to pull a bait and switch tactic like this. Stop being a bootlicker.

[xXTheShaXx]

There are warframes that can have much more overshield, atp if they want to nerf it so bad they could just halve the overshield allies get

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

15 hours ago, Waeleto said:

overguard is a fun mechanic for people who use and it's a fresh and new way of survival that doesn't involve health but it contradicts really old mechanics that require health to be damaged

That just proves that these old damage to health mechanics are archaic and no longer have a place in the game.

Garuda had her old passive replaced with something that works far better for the type of game Warframe is now. Frames like Chroma and Oberon need to be reworked instead of nerfing new frames or Overguard. 

[Hexerin]

4 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

vauban - ??? I dont play him much, but how can he clear a room before anyone is able to get in a kill?

Bastille (vortex mode) -> Photon Strike

Bastille's vortex pulls everything in (if you place it well, which can be difficult in some tiles), and then Photon Strike vaporizes everything within the vortex. This is only possible due to Photon Strike having multiple scalings, however (it scales on its own like any ability, but then it also gets multiplicatively boosted based on enemy level with no upper limit).

I don't really play Vauban, but even mine (likely horribly built) is capable of doing this.

4 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Nova - ???? I don't know man, how can she clear a room so that noone gets a kill

Molecular Prime -> Antimatter Drop

Everything within a 30m sphere (that ignores terrain and other obstacles) is 'sploded. Requires building for it though, which leaves Nova herself squishy, so it's not free. My own Nova is built Tankova, so my AD doesn't take out eximus and certain other extremely durable targets. Instagibs 90% of stuff though, and anything that lives is critically wounded (thus easy to mop up with my Felarx).

Edited April 3 by Hexerin

[PublikDomain]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But what you say is not related to powercreep, what you talk about is just simply progression as Kit points out.

No, you're talking about progression and I'm talking about powercreep. It's simple.

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Frames like Chroma and Oberon need to be reworked instead of nerfing new frames or Overguard. 

[Waeleto]

3 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

"FIX OVERGUARD  "

How can you fix a "problem" (alleged problem) that doesn't exist?
I have more than 9 warframes that are almost immortal and do very good damage in SP missions. I don't need support warframes or whatever.

So who was bothered by this overguard? huh?

I referring to the fact that overguard is hurting chroma/inaros/nidus mains 

2 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

That just proves that these old damage to health mechanics are archaic and no longer have a place in the game.

Garuda had her old passive replaced with something that works far better for the type of game Warframe is now. Frames like Chroma and Oberon need to be reworked instead of nerfing new frames or Overguard. 

agreed but those who play them probably don't wanna hear it

[Waeleto]

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Frost wasn't irrelevant. Styanax was fine. Overguard is just a reused asset from enemies that aids in powercreep by making frames immune to some forms of cc. The "diversity" it brings, erodes gameplay mechanics to a greater extent by nullifying various threats.

again the powercreep talk bfr now, frost was barely being played and everyone was begging for a rework and styanax was literally forgotten with no one talking about him or playing him in higher level content, he had nothing except being a good railjack pilot (and only thanks to grendel's subsume)

[moonbxwz]

Voruna got nerfed before she even dropped so it's not unusual 

[Waeleto]

Just now, moonbxwz said:

Voruna got nerfed before she even dropped so it's not unusual 

Was she nerfed or was she unfinished ? iirc she dropped before duviri when she was supposed to release with it and didn't have the best reaction from players until her augment 

[Numerounius]

I'd say the problem is that you either suffer with it being unable to tackle content that it is being designed for, i.e. deep archmedia, or it gets to an extreme level that it trivializes other content from a tanking perspective. With some versions of Overguard it scales with the content you are facing so it is balanced in that perspective whereas Dante doesn't care about what the content is and just provides a beefy amount of Overguard regardless since it is only based on casting abilities.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Waeleto:

I referring to the fact that overguard is hurting chroma/inaros/nidus mains 

agreed but those who play them probably don't wanna hear it

I don't think much of chroma and nidus because I don't play with them and don't want to.
but my inaros can go afk in sp surv after 1-2 hours and sentinel will kill everything.
Why would such an inaros need overguard ... I don't even want to know!

[Waeleto]

Just now, Venus-Venera said:

I don't think much of chroma and nidus because I don't play with them and don't want to.

It's because chroma can't activate vex armor through combat discipline and nidus can't gain energy from hunter adrenaline or rage

2 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

but my inaros can go afk in sp surv after 1-2 hours and sentinel will kill everything.
Why would such an inaros need overguard ... I don't even want to know!

It's also about gaining energy with rage/hunter adrenaline with inaros

[----Legacy----]

On 2024-03-31 at 9:15 PM, KitMeHarder said:

You said a "majority" of players say powercreep should be avoided

• But there's only a mere 0.2% difference. And I'd argue that the players that don't have an opinion one way or the other, basically don't care about what you'd call "powercreep" either. As that's the way the game is already progressing (and has progressed for a minimum of 8 years, likely more), so if they aren't against it, they're defacto for it. Making "powercreep avoidance" crowd the stark minority.

 

The underlined part is an awful take and entirely made up. 

People without an opinion on something, anything, are counted as a different group since "don't care" is still an opinion. They just play the game and don't push towards either direction so by counting them on any of the other groups you're just shoving down your own opinion on them which is just nonsense.

(Ye, i see no reason to read the comment past that particular point)

[Venus-Venera]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Waeleto:

It's because chroma can't activate vex armor through combat discipline and nidus can't gain energy from hunter adrenaline or rage

It's also about gaining energy with rage/hunter adrenaline with inaros

I like Rhino's skill. but even without it it does a lot of good damage...

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

The underlined part is an awful take and entirely made up. 

Not to mention that the same claim can be applied the opposite direction. If you're not for it, you're defacto against it. Isn't that how it works? Now way more people think powercreep should be avoided. Magic!

[RedRiot14]

To clarify: this is an optimization issue, not a game balance issue. Correct? In other words: the complaint is what the performance hit is doing to gameplay, not what Dante's game design is doing to gameplay.

I guarantee you that the choice between letting a player go ham with their Warframe and not melting older systems is a false dichotomy. Kullervo and Zephyr used to be able to crash the game on demand, but not anymore.

DE has an absolute wizard in charge of optimization. He can, and has, tracked down and remedied a staggering amount of edge cases where the way abilities were coded resulted in slow downs or even outright crashes.

The gigantic content update that came with Dante has a staggering amount of things that are crowding up said wizard's inbox, (the code enabling omni-fissures in particular is doing absolutely insane stuff that shouldn't even be possible. I'd never had a host migration cause fissures and reactant to start spawning on a Void Armageddon before Dante, but I digress.) but they will all get handled in due time. I say that confidently because I've seen it time and again. Some players even break this game on purpose, and the dude will actually thank them for it because the actual QA department is too busy replaying every quest in the game to see if the latest patch has bricked story progression.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Not to mention that the same claim can be applied the opposite direction. If you're not for it, you're defacto against it. Isn't that how it works? Now way more people think powercreep should be avoided. Magic!

Yeah, i think the take is just hypocritical since it takes property of neutral opinions and moves them towards one side nonetheless to claim that there's a majority supporting it while dismissing the actual meaning of those neutral opinions.

Talking about an "even split" would make more sense, and that would still be a stretch since one could argue that -after removing the neutral opinions- there's still more than enough to call simple majority (50% +1 of votes validly stating an opinion) for one side.

[Albion_Vortigern]

On 2024-04-02 at 10:15 AM, [DE]Megan said:

We are currently happy with how favored Dante is and recognize that nerfs typically have a negative connotation. With that in mind, we are reviewing early stats with an open mind to ensure we don't leave room for disruptive or dominant play styles. Any tweaks done to Dante will be to ensure he is still performing strongly, just not disruptive or dominant. 

 

There's nothing centralizing to begin with in the current state of play and its baffling this playerbase is complaining about having good tools in a power fantasy. most of this warframe is perfect the way they are and are a breath of fresh air in terms of the usual slop of low base range. Qorvex left a pretty bad aftertaste. having us max range the entire loadout all the time to get anything out of him for larger open maps leaving little build space.
regards to the wizard in question, we have a spartan who does a similar if not almost identical role with near endless energy and overgaurd team support. Dante fills an alternative role to Styanax while maintaining their own playstyle and comes with his own set of weaknesses you must cover. 

[JokerJoestar872]

23 hours ago, Rais808 said:

You might think its balanced after things get nerf but we tenno are not satisfied with your decision.

Saying "we tenno" is not close to true, from what I have seen, that "tenno" group you are talking about it's like half of the player base (I don't have any actual proof but it's my onw experience since Dante's realese)

23 hours ago, Rais808 said:

 You shouldn't have brought things that are too dominant. DE you made such a massive best game, and you don't know about the balance of things before launching them!!

Wow, do you know to perfectly balance things before realse???? please teach me, since I have never seen anybody able to do so :0

23 hours ago, Rais808 said:

humble request to DE please don't nerf him too hard😑😑

And they already said they are slightly tweaking the numbers, it's not going to be that big...

[Yousho]

On 2024-04-02 at 10:47 PM, CrownOfShadows said:

Thank god, I was afraid we'd be stuck with this Dante meta for the next 6 months. Hopefully they nerf intrepid Styanax a little while they're at it, he's almost as bad.

 

As somebody who has maxed our all content currently, whenever I see comments like this I often wonder if we're playing the same game? 

 

I mean, you actually notice what frames your teammates are playing? That's absolutly wild to me. I only do when I see something like a frost globe or Dantes flying owls, but I genuinely can't tell you the last time that I felt it made any kind of difference to the mission at all. 

As for a Meta... every frame is functionally immortal, has infinite energy, everyone can void sling for insane movement and one-shot everything constantly. 

I can't understand how Warframe can have any real notion of Meta, or how you even manage to notice such a thing. 

[PsychoGlory]

Dante does not need a nerf at all, just use him on steel path.  At best Dante is just good, compare him to Octavia, Saryn, Xaku, Revenant, Dante simply is not as strong as them.

[Yousho]

We already have immortal frames and every enemy being one-shot. 

How can there possibly be a concept of "overturned" on a game like this..?