want to play cc frame? PFF good joke lad move on. DE just finished killing everything that is not damage or revenant.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

there is still CC that works against Eximus like Shooting Gallery with its augment Muzzle Flash, Breach Surge, Silence, etc. also, other CC lets you control fodder enemies while you focus on eximus, isn't that even easier? or just use Vazarin Protective Sling with no CC and be invulnerable 100% of the time.

[BalaDeSilver]

Actually, I think OP is right. Rhino Stomp no longer slows down Eximus units. Neither does any blind (I tried Breach Surge and Radial Blind, neither worked).

That is dire for CC in general and is just a mercy kill for all of them. They were already in a bad position, but this is awful.

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, BalaDeSilver said:

Actually, I think OP is right. Rhino Stomp no longer slows down Eximus units. Neither does any blind (I tried Breach Surge and Radial Blind, neither worked).

Muzzle Flash blind still works on Eximus.  (For now.). Radial Blind itself never did, although the mini-version on EB did before Dante Unbound--i haven't retested it yet.

It's correct about Breach and Stomp and several other CCs no longer working.

[Nev3rD1E]

47 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

There's a reason why I said 'indirectly': normal units affected by Chaos will attack Eximus, which distracts them. I've used Nyx a lot in the Gas City, and she performed better than anything else I've tried so far.

Zephyr's Turbulence stops all projectiles, protecting herself and allies. She also excels in terms of DPS thanks to her passive ability and tornadoes, beautifully cheesing solo defense and not only that.

Mag's best build relies on Breach Surge, which blinds enemies regardless of overguard. With enough range, Magnetize offers an additional layer of protection from Eximus, as it redirects their own damage to themselves. And Fracturing Crush strips armour permanently around you from every enemy in range. A casual friend of mine reached the level cap in the SP circuit using all of the above.

Maybe consider taking a break from typing in caps and try new loadouts, fellow Tenno.

They do.

Zephyr's Turbulence doesnt stop eximus ablities from hitting objectives.

Breach Surge doesnt blind Eximus units, Magnetize doesnt stop Eximus abilites. Why do you bring fracturing Crush armor strip into this discusion? Its not about striping armor.

I hit lvl cap literally every day, and I do it most often on Mag. It doesnt change the fact that Eximus Overguard is bad game design. 

MAYBE consder reading and understanding what other person said. 

 

"BTW one question how are you planing to stop eximus attacks with Zephyr 3 or Mag bubble? You know that these spells dont work on Eximus right?

They do"

no they don`t go to simulacrum. 

[VibingCat]

16 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's correct about Breach and Stomp and several other CCs no longer working.

Whoops, I might have missed that. Since when?

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Whoops, I might have missed that. Since when?

Since Dante Unbound.  There's more information here 

...although I'm going to wait at least another couple of hotfixes before doing comprehensive testing.

[VibingCat]

On 2024-03-30 at 4:22 PM, Nev3rD1E said:

Zephyr's Turbulence doesnt stop eximus ablities from hitting objectives.

Breach Surge doesnt blind Eximus units, Magnetize doesnt stop Eximus abilites. Why do you bring fracturing Crush armor strip into this discusion? Its not about striping armor.

I hit lvl cap literally every day, and I do it most often on Mag. It doesnt change the fact that Eximus Overguard is bad game design. 

MAYBE consder reading and understanding what other person said. 

 

"BTW one question how are you planing to stop eximus attacks with Zephyr 3 or Mag bubble? You know that these spells dont work on Eximus right?

They do"

no they don`t go to simulacrum. 

The idea is that you should CC normal enemies so you can focus on the eximus. Silence stops their abilities, but that's just one tool we have, sadly. Armour-strip lets you kill them faster, how is it not useful?

You're right about Breach Surge, that doesn't work anymore.

 

On 2024-03-30 at 4:32 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Since Dante Unbound.  There's more information here 

...although I'm going to wait at least another couple of hotfixes before doing comprehensive testing.

Ah, I see. Now also the eximus can see, sorry for the pun.

I hope this gets fixed soon.

[Nev3rD1E]

38 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

there is still CC that works against Eximus like Shooting Gallery with its augment Muzzle Flash, Breach Surge, Silence, etc. also, other CC lets you control fodder enemies while you focus on eximus, isn't that even easier? or just use Vazarin Protective Sling with no CC and be invulnerable 100% of the time.

no, they changed it in this patch. Silently, they didnt brought it up anywhere.

41 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

other CC lets you control fodder enemies while you focus on eximus, isn't that even easier?

it does make it easier, still no reason to do it when you can just play Revenant or any nuke frame.

43 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

or just use Vazarin Protective Sling with no CC and be invulnerable 100% of the time.

Protective Sling is another reason why CC is redundant, I must agree with you on this part.

[VibingCat]

I've just tested something in the Simulacrum. To my surprise, Nyx's Chaos is extremely effective as long as there's at least one non-overguarded enemy close to the eximus. The result is that they all ignore me, even in their proximity, except for eximus abilities.

@Tiltskillet does your list mention this?

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

1 hour ago, Nev3rD1E said:

no, they changed it in this patch. Silently, they didnt brought it up anywhere.

it does make it easier, still no reason to do it when you can just play Revenant or any nuke frame.

Protective Sling is another reason why CC is redundant, I must agree with you on this part.

If you're shield gating, more fodder enemies provide a greater risk than a few Eximus as every enemy will break your shields in one hit. If your frame already has CC baked into their kit, why not use it to take pressure off yourself to not shield gate as much? To say CC is useless nowadays is a stretch. I also don't always want to be using an AoE weapon that will nuke a room. Sometimes I want to take a crit secondary gaze kitgun and murder enemies. I'm surely not using that to nuke a room.

The difference in arguments is just playstyle. If you want to nuke everything then only play those frames or use those weapons? Nobody is trying to convince you to play a different frame.

Edited March 30 by Ghastly-Ghoul

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, VibingCat said:

@Tiltskillet does your list mention this?

Yes.  And now that fewer harder CCs are working, Chaos and other aggro  manipulation tools will look more enticing.  (Although not especially so compared to murder: the hardest CC.)

 

[Zebiko]

Make builds and test on ONLY eximus units in the simulacrum. CC is pretty useless now, but it's not all dead. IDK why so many youtubers still only test on non-eximus units.

[VibingCat]

42 minutes ago, Zebiko said:

Make builds and test on ONLY eximus units in the simulacrum. CC is pretty useless now, but it's not all dead. IDK why so many youtubers still only test on non-eximus units.

Why? It's an unrealistic scenario.

[Nev3rD1E]

32 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Why? It's an unrealistic scenario.

have you ever played disruption? 

[VibingCat]

1 minute ago, Nev3rD1E said:

have you ever played disruption? 

Yes, it doesn't need crowd control abilities.

[Nev3rD1E]

On 2024-03-30 at 8:17 PM, VibingCat said:

Why? It's an unrealistic scenario.

or kuva survival for longer than 30-45 min?

 

On 2024-03-30 at 8:53 PM, VibingCat said:

Yes, it doesn't need crowd control abilities.

thats whole point of the post btw, you dont need cc ever. XD 

On 2024-03-30 at 8:57 PM, Nev3rD1E said:

thats whole point of the post btw, you dont need cc ever. XD 

cuz it doesnt work on only things that matter XD 

 

On 2024-03-30 at 8:17 PM, VibingCat said:

Why? It's an unrealistic scenario.

Make builds and test on ONLY eximus units in the simulacrum. CC is pretty useless now, but it's not all dead. IDK why so many youtubers still only test on non-eximus units.

btw you changed topic i brought up disruption cuz after some waves only thing that you see on your screen are eximus units. XD 

[NeDesitVirtus]

15 minutes ago, Nev3rD1E said:

or kuva survival for longer than 30-45 min?

I recently did a 90+ min duo (pug) Kuva Survival with Gloom Saryn, Sobek/Acid Shells, Angstrum, Dual Ichor, and a Protea Specter.

It was really nice seeing those 800 Kuva drops and 8X Steel Essence drops from the Acolytes. Was a decent run, I only went down once and lost 2 towers due to carelessness. 

I could have stayed longer but I was getting kind of bored and friends came online. 

Nothing magical about the run, it's really down to how you focus attention on spawns and primarily eximus, shred overguard and dispose of them (the arson being the most important ones). Not being able to do this really does come down to skill or lack thereof. As was the case when I went down and lost 2. I'm a 98%'er and certainly not perfect. 🙂 

Another relic run I soloed an hour and 15 minute survival or so before I decided to do something else. 

 

Edited March 30 by NeDesitVirtus

[VibingCat]

On 2024-03-30 at 8:54 PM, Nev3rD1E said:

or kuva survival for longer than 30-45 min?

In solo SP survival I prefer a bit of crowd control, but it's not mandatory with Vazarin. Killing fast is more relevant. However, I get bored very quickly camping, so I choose more dynamic gamestyles. 

 

On 2024-03-30 at 8:57 PM, Nev3rD1E said:

thats whole point of the post btw, you dont need cc ever. XD 

Disruption doesn't necessarily require it, provided that you have sufficient survivability and Magus Lockdown. However, some other game modes do, to varying extents, depending on players' skills, personal preferences, and other factors.

[Nev3rD1E]

2 hours ago, NeDesitVirtus said:

I recently did a 90+ min duo (pug) Kuva Survival with Gloom Saryn, Sobek/Acid Shells, Angstrum, Dual Ichor, and a Protea Specter.

It was really nice seeing those 800 Kuva drops and 8X Steel Essence drops from the Acolytes. Was a decent run, I only went down once and lost 2 towers due to carelessness. 

I could have stayed longer but I was getting kind of bored and friends came online. 

Nothing magical about the run, it's really down to how you focus attention on spawns and primarily eximus, shred overguard and dispose of them (the arson being the most important ones). Not being able to do this really does come down to skill or lack thereof. As was the case when I went down and lost 2. I'm a 98%'er and certainly not perfect. 🙂 

Another relic run I soloed an hour and 15 minute survival or so before I decided to do something else. 

 

how this is related to the topic of dicusion?

[NeDesitVirtus]

1 hour ago, Nev3rD1E said:

how this is related to the topic of dicusion?

Gloom is a CC ability and therein, it adds slow to enemy units. CC is not dead it is rather a tool wherein regular units and overguard stripped units can be more easily controlled whereby area dominance can be established. 

The assertion that overguard eximus cannot be easily handled or that revenant is the only viable frame for SP content is countered. 

Likewise, Mag is exceedingly effectuvebin handling Sanctum demolishers while a Kompressa or Epitaph are effective at handling regular Demolysts via Cold Procs. I use an Ash for Armor strip and whatever weapon I feel savvy to unalive the thing. It's not a complicated process. 

If you'd like more info on these types of builds let me know, also there is the wiki that can further explain in greater granularity. I hope this clarifies. Believe me when I say if I can do it then anyone can. 🙂

Edited March 31 by NeDesitVirtus

[Nev3rD1E]

On 2024-03-31 at 3:15 AM, NeDesitVirtus said:

Gloom is a CC ability and therein, it adds slow to enemy units. CC is not dead it is rather a tool wherein regular units and overguard stripped units can be more easily controlled whereby area dominance can be established. 

The assertion that overguard eximus cannot be easily handled or that revenant is the only viable frame for SP content is countered. 

Likewise, Mag is exceedingly effectuvebin handling Sanctum demolishers while a Kompressa or Epitaph are effective at handling regular Demolysts via Cold Procs. I use an Ash for Armor strip and whatever weapon I feel savvy to unalive the thing. It's not a complicated process. 

If you'd like more info on these types of builds let me know, also there is the wiki that can further explain in greater granularity. I hope this clarifies. Believe me when I say if I can do it then anyone can. 🙂

tell me how saryn is cc frame.

Ye sure you can play cc frames in sp but if you do this you are only making things harder for yourself without any reason.

You dont need to give me guides for anything I can easly handle any content in this game. Overguard for me isn`t a problem, it`s bad game design. 

[(PSN)rexis12]

I don't think using Saryn, one of the strongest Numbers in warframe in conjucture with Gloom, arguably one of the strongest functional swiss Army knife CC, together and trying to say that CC is fine from that. 

[NeDesitVirtus]

21 hours ago, Nev3rD1E said:

tell me how saryn is cc frame.

Ye sure you can play cc frames in sp but if you do this you are only making things harder for yourself without any reason.

You dont need to give me guides for anything I can easly handle any content in this game. Overguard for me isn`t a problem, it`s bad game design. 

 

21 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

I don't think using Saryn, one of the strongest Numbers in warframe in conjucture with Gloom, arguably one of the strongest functional swiss Army knife CC, together and trying to say that CC is fine from that. 

Whether or not you think so is kind of irrelevant to the OPs assertion that CC is no longer relevant because of eximus overguard is it? 

Of course there are plenty of frames and content where CC works exceedingly well consistently and handles stripped eximus units as well as acolytes etc. I personally only turn off gloom in squad defense missions.

Damage (modified for faction) is certainly important past base Starchart, but for the most part, (unless you're using Ash etc.) a huge damage dealer will struggle in solo endurance Steel Path without any CC or aggro control. 

Just to be clear, I am not referring to non SP (training content) or low density missions where CC is negligible, Spy, Rescue, Capture, etc.

@Nev3r,  I for one am glad you're able to handle content competently and where to source information.That means if I happen upon you in pubs we won't have to worry about the typical events that make pubs so frustrating.

That being said, I was so delightful the eximus rework for overguard as well as all the damage attenuation tweaks. That's innovative game design and my kudos to DE each and every time they make the game harder or more challenging. 

I was sad to see Neutered Jackal in SP Circuit...more a Chihuahua and less a Jackal now even at level 3k+. :sad face:

Edited April 3 by NeDesitVirtus

[Nev3rD1E]

3 hours ago, NeDesitVirtus said:

 

Whether or not you think so is kind of irrelevant to the OPs assertion that CC is no longer relevant because of eximus overguard is it? 

Of course there are plenty of frames and content where CC works exceedingly well consistently and handles stripped eximus units as well as acolytes etc. I personally only turn off gloom in squad defense missions.

Damage (modified for faction) is certainly important past base Starchart, but for the most part, (unless you're using Ash etc.) a huge damage dealer will struggle in solo endurance Steel Path without any CC or aggro control. 

Just to be clear, I am not referring to non SP (training content) or low density missions where CC is negligible, Spy, Rescue, Capture, etc.

@Nev3r,  I for one am glad you're able to handle content competently and where to source information.That means if I happen upon you in pubs we won't have to worry about the typical events that make pubs so frustrating.

That being said, I was so delightful the eximus rework for overguard as well as all the damage attenuation tweaks. That's innovative game design and my kudos to DE each and every time they make the game harder or more challenging. 

I was sad to see Neutered Jackal in SP Circuit...more a Chihuahua and less a Jackal now even at level 3k+. :sad face:

Eximus changes aren`t challanging at all. Its just stupid change. They should have added new elite units that are really really tough and will hunt you down every like 5-10 mins of mission. I would love to fight some big lich like boys that scale with your mission and have good rewards for taking them down. I would love to see enemy that have mechanics that you need to respect in order to take it down. Eximus units arent threat to your warframe, only things that they are threating to is deffense objectives, excavators or kuva excavators. Its just so frustrating when you can`t stun or stop fire eximus from destroying kuva excovator with his firequake ability, only thing that you can do is one shot them. And no, you cant "just strip their overguard" overguard is literally 90% of their hp, if you have any dot effect on your weapon they will die second after their overguard is stripped. I would need to really focus not to kill not overguarded Eximus XD.  Its frustrating that cc frames like Limbo dont have any place where they are better then Saryn, Revenant, Dante or any other tank/nuke frame, or where they are needed for anything. CC frames are redundant. Do you get me now? 

[NeDesitVirtus]

28 minutes ago, Nev3rD1E said:

You said, "I would love to fight some big lich like boys that scale with your mission and have good rewards for taking them down. I would love to see enemy that have mechanics that you need to respect in order to take it down." and  "Its frustrating that cc frames like Limbo [don't] have any place where they are better then Saryn, Revenant, Dante or any other tank/nuke frame, or where they are needed for anything. CC frames are redundant. Do you get me now?"

 

 I agree with your sentiments here. We have enough power, harder and more challenging tanky enemies with damage attenuation and special abilities would be so much better to put power to use in regular content, and yes I do think some leveraging of purely CC frames like Limbo could use some love as well as some adjustments so it doesn't hamper or frustrate team dynamics. 

Personally, I feel a menu toggle opting in or out of frame buffs/abilities per frame being used, similar to tap/hold/invert would be helpful. 

That would alleviate so much of the grief we have been seeing from people of different play styles clashing. 

 

Edited April 3 by NeDesitVirtus