How that divine spear nerf actually should have looked and why I think it was handeled the wrong way

[Rainguns]

Just use saryn

[Qyndroth]

Now, I'm usually a lurker, I don't like to say much, I usually just sit back and let the community do the talking, however you guys have also overdone the Dante nerfs and so a lot of the attention is on Dante's side, so I'd like to make a post about the Nezha Augment nerf to help with the attention it might get. that "50%" range is more of a 75% nerf, if you go max range you only get ~25m range... The only real problem with the augment was that there's a short period where Divine Spears can effect enemies with overguard, so if you hit your 4, then proc a large slash right after, it will kill even the eximus. All you had to do was make it so that Divine Spears didn't effect enemies with overguard. "But he will still nuke a bunch of basic enemies in a large area!!" So??? We already have a couple warframes that can nuke basic enemies in a large area... what's one more??? 

I will now list 2 different options I would have preferred rather than this random knee-jerk napkin math scenario we are having here

• Revert the augment nerf, make it so Divine Spears can't effect overguarded enemies. Nezha will be able to nuke basic enemies, but also have to use a gun or melee for overguarded enemies. (this is my preferred option)
• Instead of a 50% range nerf to the augment, give the augment like a 35m cap. (While I'm not a fan of capping the range, this seems to be roughly the way DE wants to go, so idk man)

This Nezha augment finally got me off Revenant and I was having FUN. With this nerf though, I'm just gonna go back to Revenant. I used to use Nezha as a roar-bot, and then Revenant got his survivability buffed so I swapped off Nezha to Revenant and my Nezha has been sitting in my arsenal collecting dust. Nezha's augment came out and so I had an actual reason to go back to Nezha. I put so much more investment into Nezha after the augment came out and all of that investment feels wasted. I'm going to wait a bit to remove the archon shards to see if DE will do something about these knee-jerk nerfs, but... man... It's way too early for the nerfs to Dante and the Nezha augment, they really should've given the community a month to let things simmer and see how things played out.

I'm not sure I'll make any replies as (like I said at the start) I'm usually a lurker, I'm not much of a social person so I don't like to chat much, but I feel like I might aswell put my feelings on this onto the forums in hopes that DE listens somewhat. While I may not reply or anything, feel free to add other alternatives of ways they could've gone about it into the comments or make another forum about the nerf and what you would've done.

[PollexMessier]

Wow they nerfed it? That's so stupid. I was really exited for Nezha to be an actually good frame for once.

The really stupid thing is this only worked on trash mobs anyways. Because any mob worth a damn is immune to getting impaled because it's CC. The exact same issue as frosts passive augment. So it was really pretty balanced, since wiping out all the trash mobs means you still need to deal with all the enemies that are actually dangerous.

[Biohazard_xPRx]

1 hour ago, Vermillion-Code said:

Agree with everything but also want to just say that radial abilities scale differently a -50% to the base range is actually reducing the range to a quarter of what it used to be thanks to geometry and all that. -50% is more like -75% with how math works. So It's worse than people think.

You are absolutely correct. It makes it even less viable considering the ability still costs 100 energy at base efficiency while having a base range smaller than arcane melee influence. 

[Alexparham]

i understand that nerfing the range of diving retribution is an option to reign in the effectiveness but i feel like the range reduction is a bit too aggressive. even thought the mod reduces the range by half it ends up reducing it by closer to 75% due to it being a radius.

reducing the range by maybe 25% or 30% instead would feel a lot less restrictive for an augment that seems to exist for the sole purpose of giving nezha a build that isnt a weapons platform thats not as tanky as reventant. its kind of a shame that this update seems to have made me feel like the forma, archon sharding and helminthing i did over the last week has gone to waste.
 

i will likely just return to having nezha be a tanky weapons platform as the investment to get the aument working fluidly is no longer worth it

Edited April 4 by Alexparham
formatting + grammer

[DarkMagicMatter]

Hopefully they'll also nerf Yarelli's merulina so it only gives 80% DR. Not like health tanks are already outclassed by shield frames...

[FabiTheSnake]

Yeah i think we are all overlooking the fact that they removed Slows and such for Eximus units from Rhino stomp, and disarming or Blinds being gone.
Like if they don´t want CC to be a thing, just remove it. 
Same with Status effects. 4 Heat procs on anything. Like i got a build on my Lavos for stacking elements, but now i can only have 4, and condition overload setups don´t work.
Because the game has to be easy in steelpath and Crit Slash has to be the only playstyle apparently.

Or Hollow vein can´t be an Enemy you have to respect. 
God damn it Dante was such a good update, Whispers was such a good update, but they just... #*!% it up. Like that?
I don´t think dante really suffers from it, didn´t play him but he still got overguard, and he can spam his ability to cope with LOS right?

Even then that should have been done before releasing him. SAME WITH NEZHA.
I also dislike the orbiter Lighting now  it seems worse then before with the fixes. Howcan one hotfix turn everything so sour?

[Vermillion-Code]

Range can be nerfed (505 WAY too much) , but what I would have done is never add the status damage multiplication aspect to begin with. Infact, why not make speared enemies who share status damage take LESS multiplicative status damage? That way, if you want to nuke with it you need to really invest in a supplementary weapon to do so.

[ElementalGalaxy]

I'll just be very straight forward. Nezha's Divine Retribution being debuffed makes some sense but -50% range is extremely overkill and removes the original purpose of his 4 being a stun. Dante having his Tragedy change to line of sight is extremely inconsistent and they said "After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needed to be addressed, but rather his accumulation of Overguard" which is completely hypocritical. This just completely nerfed him into the ground. I think the Overguard changes was enough.

[Chroia]

1 hour ago, Alexparham said:

reducing the range by maybe 25% or 30% instead would feel a lot less restrictive for an augment that seems to exist for the sole purpose of giving nezha a build that isnt a weapons platform thats not as tanky as reventant.

50% range pretty much requires 200%+ range, with the associated hit to strength that Overextended imposes, if you want to use it as anything more than 'another flavor of Melee Influence that spreads slash but mostly doesn't work on Eximus'.

I'm on 280% range, and that's 26.6m.
Xoris hits 12 (with Volatile Quick Return) and Influence hits 20,

...

Edited April 4 by Chroia

[Heeissenberg]

Saryn and mesa have been nuking entire tilesets since the beginning of times, why would you release an augment to make nezha able to nuke and destroy it in less than a week?

[DecadeX]

The 75% area nerf is the wildest part. This isn't even the first time DE has made this mistake that I can think of off the top of my head. Back when Vacuum was changed to be available on all sentinels they cut the radius of it in half then too and it resulted in the vacuum volume being reduced to an eighth. 1/4 area on Nezha's 4 is a dirtnap nerf. That mod is a novelty now not an actual tool in the kit. It's not the tweak the patch notes make it out to be. If the augment just came with a 50% modded range reduction that might be okay but no it had to be base.

[MightyMike87]

It was fun, it was different, it made a less popular and used frame suddenly an interesting and FUN option in later game content = not allowed. 

[drakolich21]

It should just be a hard cap. Something like 30m would make it useful while allowing players to mod the rest of his kit properly. Base ability range is 19m, to reach 30 you would just need a rank 3 overextended (160% total), then you could just mod for other stats. As it is now, having ALL range mods (280% range for 4 mod slots) gets you to 26m, which is insultingly low.

Edited April 5 by drakolich21

[(PSN)Epsilon_3579]

14 hours ago, Katalyxt said:

As a long time Nezha main seeing the augment made me so happy that my duration + strength build would finally use divine spears again... and then they gutted the range. The one thing that isn't needed for Nezha usually and doesn't help the rest of his kit. 50% reduction is just way too much... i would have perfectly fine if it was 30% at most but 50%? ....Sorry Nezha back to never using divine spears again it is. The augment was fun too...

100% agree

[MrDugan]

I saw like one Nezha in the whole time I played between the release of the augment and the release of this patch.  It's not like he was everywhere.  The starchart babies that can't play always get mad when someone nukes a room and they can't do their ninja cosplay in a hoard shooter.

[Simeoff]

15 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Wow they nerfed it? That's so stupid. I was really exited for Nezha to be an actually good frame for once.

The really stupid thing is this only worked on trash mobs anyways. Because any mob worth a damn is immune to getting impaled because it's CC. The exact same issue as frosts passive augment. So it was really pretty balanced, since wiping out all the trash mobs means you still need to deal with all the enemies that are actually dangerous.

This!

Finally he had another role in the game..
and it's instantly blocked ...by a stat that isn't even Used by him!
Isn't even automated or dominating to begin with! (not that That stopped DE letting other frames destroying the game with no repercussion
Even when building for max range, it Still isn't that effective ...I barely kill anyone before a teammates swoops in and decimates the mobs around me...

The nerf really crossed the line between usable and outright useless....

 

Also, as PollexMessier said, it's literally for TRASH MOBS!
I've been in so many missions already that I've been jumping and dashing having to deal with eximuses, nullifiers and etc..
like.. there are many ways to cheese quick missions with other frames, but for longer ones - u still need to work for it.

 

This augment finally made Nezha another frame which was useful in clearing out trash mobs (literally have more uses) ....well, not much anymore ig......

[DarknessGrima]

DE definitely handle it pretty bad about range I feel like Gordon Ramsay whispering about 50% range decrease in DE ear to tell them #*!% off

Edited April 5 by DarknessGrima

[_Anise_]

I think the nezha augment if they were worried about people automating gameplay (it wont) they could have given it soft LOS instead of giving it a range that made it unusable

[addex]

19 hours ago, Wolfeyes1989 said:

Wanted to state my disappointment with the Divine Retribution augment, half base range is just too much of a hit. After changing my whole mod polarity setup to build around the augment not even being able to reach outside the building on the mars defense node with max range feels awful. I ruined my old build only for my new one to suddenly feel useless by comparison after a single update. I agree it was too strong before but 50% range is just terrible.

same for me!!i did not enjoyed the frame but  this augment made it great !spend forma  shards time to make the poerfect build and then comes to the ground!! its a sick joke and i do not understand...was this not tested? and then they evaporate the ability  w this nerf making nehza waht she was before....we have saryn  gauss  equinox and  thisis ithe issue? wow!!its really bad!!

[(PSN)Epsilon_3579]

20 hours ago, Darthplagueis13 said:

So, with the most recent crime against humanity  hotfix, Nezha's new Divine Spears augment was hit with the nerfhammer. 50% less base range on the ability, mostly in an effort to adress certain degenerate builds that could be used to nuke everything in roughly a 60 meters radius.

 

Why do I think this is bad: Because it nerfs the wrong part of the playerbase. Endgame players have fairly comfortable ways around this nerf. Throw in a few maxed out corrupted Mods and compensate for whatever is left on the wayside with Archon Shards.

However, for newer players who don't have all these mods maxed out and who don't have Archon Shards, this nerf simply means that the augment isn't worth using. The range you get with the augment and Stretch is so pityful that there's no reason to bother with it. If you want status application in that kind of area, get yourself a Diriga with Manifold bond.

Before the nerf, building range for Divine Retribution was a good idea because it was powerful. After the nerf, building range for Divine Retribution is mandatory because otherwise it isn't worth using.

 

How this nerf should have looked: "Reduces the effect of ability range increases on Divine Spears by 50%". 

 

That's how. This way, the augment would still provide a good amount of power at base, but it would be prevented from escalating as much. Nerf the peak, not the bottomline. Running Overextended and Stretch on it would be equivalent to running a level 3 Overextended on its own without the augment.

 

Or simply put a cap on it. "Range is capped at 25 meters". That would also be fine.

There's several options, and they're all better than laying waste to the base stats of the ability in a way that costs 120k endo to fix.

I understand where you coming from but even with corrupted mods, the range is going up to 26. something and there are no archon shards that affect ability range as far as I can remember so even the endgame players are screwed. I have almost all of the endgame mods and I can tell right now it's not worth it, it's not like it won't work far from it. but it's too restrictive in terms of build options you would just end up sacrificing too much for just some extra low-range damage. 50% range penalty is overkill 30-35% would have been fine or simply just damage fall off, or a cap of some x enemies. All of these would have stopped map nuking and would have limited the ability only in the immediate vicinity. I think the biggest problem DE never clearly stated what they find problematic about it so it makes it even harder for us to understand their 50% decision it is just speculation. But I am happy to see so many players jumping in on this topic. Let's cross our fingers and hope that DE reevaluates the Nerf and finds a middle ground for all our sakes. DE if you are reading this we never expected it to last (too good to be true) but we never expected it to be this bad either.