Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

[Dragoon]

I find it darkly funny that they had to bring out Pablo to reiterate this 'fix' that doesn't fix anything about what people want. The forums and reddit are hugely disappointed right now and the only reason they aren't getting ratio'd so hard here is because most people that frequent the forums have already used up all their 'reactions' on posts they agree with, so they don't have to make their own. Saying nothing about Nezha's multiplicative range nerf too.

You're a great guy Pablo, but not even you can make these changes palatable.

[MetalMechabolic]

Please... just revert the LoS change and keep the overguard gutted.   That or just give everyone a free Saryan and frane slot.  The nerf was tone deaf considering other frames like Octiva can still ruin public games.  Also, Dante is a new frame you guys hyped up.  Is it that surprising that people wanted to try out the new hot thing?

[Tarek9_]

thanks i'll never farm a new warframe on release , DE is transforming into a worse version of ubisoft

[Drake_MPrime]

39 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

Man if these are "tweaks" how will the "nerfs" look in the future 🤣

Lol, yeah Reb said just some tiny tweaks here and there.... sure... 🤣

[Frost_King]

Im glad LoS is being revisited, it needed it and thank you for that.

But this misses the issue, Dante's 3 works off LoS, His Tragedy does not need it, the damage is negligible in high level content and it helps your squad mates if it hits them while they are under DoTs

I do NOT understand why Archon intensify doesn't work with his 2 anymore, its very situational and most frames can't even use it.  It doesn't even consider orb healing for the boost, reverse it please.

It was nice to see people playing Nezha again, why nerf that, the game is all about diversity.

Also I think Rage and Hunter's Adrenaline should have an 'on hit' for energy, and a larger gain if it hits health directly, it would fix every problem with chroma and inaros players not liking overguard.  Kinda like how Fire Rate has an X2 on bows.

 

Also no one has said anything but in the Sanctuary Cephelon Simaris keeps cutting off Dante's four when he needs three cast of it to buff himself.  Maybe cut it back for him so he can comfortably exist within the Sanctuary?

[-ShadowRadiance-]

3 minutes ago, Vazumongr said:

My bad, I forgot spamming 3 was quite some setup. Unless you are counting "making sure my 45 second duration buff is active" as setup too?

Tell me Saryn's setup again...

Tell me Mirage's setup...

 

[Pariah_Vulgar]

Please, Pablo, DE, everyone, just revert the nerfs.  Or at least remove the line of sight check from Tragedy entirely.  As others have pointed out, it is already buried behind LOS checks in order to apply status to enemies.  It doesn't need its own LOS check.

Don't get me wrong, the new LOS checks will be good for the game overall, but Tragedy specifically doesn't need LOS in the first place.

[Waeleto]

1 minute ago, Vazumongr said:

Eh, I disagree. They are still different Warframes with different kits. Believe it or not, a lot of people will play whatever they have fun with. There's a lot more to a Warframe than "who can get the most Overguard the quickest." And besides, Dante's Overguard gen is more passive. Cast the story once then go about using the rest of your kit. I do think it should be changed to squad kills though instead of assists.

Okay sure but the 2 things that made dante more appealing over styanax is his nuking and overgurad, his overguard is now worse than styanax and his nuking got OBLETRATED i don't even need to elaborate on that, styanax gives overguard, armor and shield strip, shield regen, energy regen (not counting grouping from his 1 since everyone subsumes over it)
as for dante's overguard regen, it won't help him generating a lot of overguard quickly because like i said to max it i need to be casting 224 and i can't do anything else while casting it

Even tho the amount of overguard on dante wasn't the problem i'm fine with a nerf but 60% is just TOO MUCH and that is only on triumph, they his both his overguard abilities with really heavy nerfs

[Alukawaii]

I want my forms, reactor and my hours back, this nerf was unnecessary and even ridiculous, it was the only and first warframe that felt good, that would not be left in the pit of the rest of the mediocre warframes gathering dust and they killed it. They could also remove several of the previous nerfs like Trinity and give several buffs to the rest since their new game mode, which is only a higher level so they can kill you with one shot, they can survive

[TwistedEventide0666]

34 minutes ago, Aturixios said:

If you're skewering Dante this much might as well go for LoS on Saryn and Equinox too

Exactly, if they insist on adding this LoS nightmare to one nuke frame they might as well do it to every single other frame that has nuke potential. The problem is doing that would essentially drive people to stop playing the game entirely. 

25 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

That's a good change.
Don't listen to people asking for a revert, if they want AoE nuke across walls, they don't actually want to play the game.

You clearly haven’t played Warframe, either that or are still so new to the game that you don’t know what you’re talking about and don’t realize why nuke frames are necessary. Not to mention the fact that several frames have nuke abilities: Saryn, Equinox, Gauss, Xaku and many others that DONT have LoS checks on their nuke abilities. Saryn has TWO between Spores and Miasma. Even Hydroid can nuke now with his recent rework. 

[Smellis]

Still dont understand how dante was such an overwhelming nuking frame that you needed to nerf his 4 at all. If that was honestly the case, why not tone down his range or base line damage amp from detonating the status (why can i get x8 dmg mult for barely 200 power str lol). 

 

If you're nerfing his overguard to address the "problem" of overguard being disruptive to chroma players. Why are you not nerfing styanex/frost? Why are you not making overguard work with rage/adrenaline/vex armor. Why is such a niche problem affecting a brand new warframe who hasn't even had a full week to stretch his legs and see where he settles in the "meta". 

 

You can make his overguard only give you 200 per cast and only 1k from his 4 buff, it doesn't matter in steel path. We all know the point of overguard is simply an extra cushion because no matter how much you have it gets wiped out in steel path super fast. But taking away his nuking power by adding LOS requirements literally ruins his fun. I'd say why are we not applying this to saryn like everyone else. But i WANT saryn to be fun, i want dante to be fun. Rare is the game that either are killing so much and so fast the no other player has anything to do. And both cases can be adjusted by numbers without affecting how it feels to play either frame. 

[Slendy29]

Please just revert the LoS and paragrimms change, it's not broken if he kills a few enemies behind walls. We have saryn, octavia and revenant in this game, so why is he getting nerfed heavily instead of actually gamebreaking warframes?

[-_WHITE_-]

Boy oh boy, the release of the next frame will definitely be something interesting.

[Tarek9_]

yeah you're prolly a delusional saryn main not wanting any other frame being even close to her , opinion rejected

[addex]

11 minutes ago, Uan91 said:

Being "transparent" does NOT mean anything if you are tone deaf. 

This Is not the first time even.

Exacly !!good that he is talking about it but if they do not listen what is the point ?no one ...not the 1 time by a long shot ....lets see if you actually listen DE.

[Waeleto]

2 minutes ago, Smellis said:

Still dont understand how dante was such an overwhelming nuking frame that you needed to nerf his 4 at all. If that was honestly the case, why not tone down his range or base line damage amp from detonating the status (why can i get x8 dmg mult for barely 200 power str lol). 

 

If you're nerfing his overguard to address the "problem" of overguard being disruptive to chroma players. Why are you not nerfing styanex/frost? Why are you not making overguard work with rage/adrenaline/vex armor. Why is such a niche problem affecting a brand new warframe who hasn't even had a full week to stretch his legs and see where he settles in the "meta". 

 

You can make his overguard only give you 200 per cast and only 1k from his 4 buff, it doesn't matter in steel path. We all know the point of overguard is simply an extra cushion because no matter how much you have it gets wiped out in steel path super fast. But taking away his nuking power by adding LOS requirements literally ruins his fun. I'd say why are we not applying this to saryn like everyone else. But i WANT saryn to be fun, i want dante to be fun. Rare is the game that either are killing so much and so fast the no other player has anything to do. And both cases can be adjusted by numbers without affecting how it feels to play either frame. 

The sad part is, they just made maxing his overguard a chore and he has to cast 18 abilities to max it now they didn't fix the problem it had with chroma at all completely missing the point of "nerf demands"

[Vazumongr]

1 minute ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Tell me Saryn's setup again...

Tell me Mirage's setup...

 

I already replied to you that I was not singling out Dante and that the other Warframes being pointed out are problematic as well. Please stop assuming that when I've explicitly stated that I wasn't. Again, you are helping further prove my point that mindless 1 button nukes are a problem in the game.
 

23 minutes ago, Vazumongr said:

 

Y'all are just helping prove my point that 1 button nukes without LoS checks are problematic. I never singled out Dante.

[sithis19]

I think at this point I would be willing to sign on to the chargeback/refund idea as well. If they will not listen to the absolute mountain of feedback, then maybe they will when it does affect their bottom line. 

Fixing a adjacent issue that has been an issue for a long time now is not a fix, and frankly it brings to question why LOS for other frames has been broken this long if it was this quick to resolve. 

DE, I have been playing this game since Alpha, I love it dearly, but you need to listen to the community on this one. Revert the changes, go back to the drawing board. It is about the only way you will save any face right now.

[AHendy]

44 minutes ago, masanbol said:

Please just listen to us. Remove LoS on Tragedy, adjust damage if you want, but LoS just feels bad to play.

This exactly, why keep the LoS nerf?  It just feels bad, why do you want a frame to feel bad to play when they know it could feel good!  Seems so silly.

[Museigen]

I'm just gonna quote my other response to this one. The LoS is not the only problem here:

It's sad, really. Specially because of all the red herring that was thrown at us for the last days. Let's analyze the "Little tweak" in numbers, shall we?

Triumph Overguard was reduced to 40% of its value, it was a 60% nerf right out of the bat. This is not a small fix, not a small change. You'd expect a 20% max, which was a bearable change.

Tragedy was fundamentally changed to not work properly. It's not a question of "how much was nerfed", it's another ability entirely. Its overall dps was gutted to something around 1/4 of its original performance plus the inconsistency. Really a tragedy. Remember, the Dark Verse, its enabler is already limited by LoS.

Pageflight was killed, its only use was removed. The only real synergy the ability had was their damage amplification. Its "primer" component is extremely useless, since they consume too much energy to be worth mantaining and it lack the most basic component of a primer which is aoe. So, it's better to just shoot and spam dark verse, it's way more effective to apply bleed procs. So another ability fundamentally changed to not work properly.

Wordwarden 66% buff is what I guess was the only minor tweak the frame had. Big percentage, but only a +20% to the damage of a  weak ability, since it doesn't interact with all the dps of the noctua, just raw base damage. But this move made me think that the intention with the nerf is to make Dante just another half baked weapon platform. "Warframe" should really focus on its strength, the warframes. The weapon platform trope is too overplayed (and not the reason I play warframe) and it was not the initial intention of the character. In another words, meaningless consolation change.}

Let's not focus only on the LoS change, the whole kit was gutted somehow.

If they have any respect for the playerbase and their costumers, this whole change should be reverted, and then restart the communication. The grave sin they commited here was the Breach of Trust.
I don't like the direction warframe is going anymore. I came back to play this game exactly because of the hope I had of the cool new direction. So, what is the direction, Digital Extremes?

EDIT: About the "clarity" problem with pageflight. It's already a part of the game design this "problem". So I've done it like I did for a lot of other effects in the game. I read it, I assumed some things it might do, then I tested it and came to the exact conclusion that it worked how it worked. And it was useful. Niche, yet useful. Because it was the tool to deal with priority tank targets like Acolytes, Demos and Necramechs, since it's not an aoe tool, it was the only niche it had. Now because of some "clarity", they removed it by what is seems out of spite. Again, the problem here is Breach of Trust.
 

 

Edited April 5 by Museigen

[Siic07]

Revert the nerf and remove OG from allies, that's what everyone wants but you don't look at what the players are saying.

[DeityOfBlood]

2 minutes ago, Tarek9_ said:

yeah you're prolly a delusional saryn main not wanting any other frame being even close to her , opinion rejected

Who in the world are you even talking to? Were you to scared to quote whomever you are responding too? This seems rather narcissistic as if you have the power to reject opinions which are OPINIONS.

[Kattella]

Just remove LoS for dante and keep the overguard nerfs

[Waeleto]

1 minute ago, Siic07 said:

Revert the nerf and remove OG from allies, that's what everyone wants but you don't look at what the players are saying.

100+ pages of feedback can be summed up in this ^

[Rihenwn]

hace 39 minutos, lukinu_u dijo:

That's a good change.
Don't listen to people asking for a revert, if they want AoE nuke across walls, they don't actually want to play the game.

You actually realize there are other warframes that do this, do you? Have you ever played Warframe? I'm just asking, since you haven't even tried Dante and yet you're here giving feedback on this. (Yes, profiles are public, maybe you're not familiar with the game's UI as well).