Jade is making me and a lot of other people uncomfortable

[WanderingJoe]

All nice ideas though they all do carry the "turn it off" mentality. Toggle at this point is just the word we use. We don't really care about the mechanics of how they do it, we're just requesting they choose one to implement. I say auxiliary as I think it'd be the best way to keep anyone from missing out on fashion frame but I'd accept any of these ideas. I think the "global" switch idea would be harder than an auxiliary option since i t would entail both the auxiliary method and then require further implimentation.

[TheCursedUltima]

The client-side idea was based on the foundation of working in tandem with either an aux or set model for which a specific state could be displayed based off of the chosen option, for those who can’t handle seeing others playing them - like in a Relay or Dojo as you’re likely to see a Jade stationary and thus the pregnancy potentially visible, which is not great for those with Tokophobia such as the OP.

But yeah, it does require other factors which could make it harder to implement as you’d said.

[VENDOMINUS]

52 minutes ago, SirKeksalot said:

I recognize this, and I said it before that I know they're not the same. Again, it's more that we have precedent for a frame having this kind of toggle, and therefore it's not too odd to think we may have use for another.

Well, it's not really a precedent. Styanax deluxe skin had tassels, that were made removeable via the axillary slot too(they weren't originally). It didn't take DE too long to make it happen either.

http://prntscr.com/E5Rmbu8QN-JD

[sorryh]

2 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

Your writing style comes over as very aggressive, I do not know if this was intended or not but before trying to word your point, take a breather and refrain from using different styles to highlight words and trying to explain terms everyone is familiar with like the meaning of the word "request" (i know you will counter with "you put a link to the pegi site and explaination of forum"

I am way far and beyond confused by you telling I was aggressive 😂
For that I owe you an apology for this misunderstanding and choice of expressing myself. I went back to read what I said and I struggle to see how I gave off that impression if anything I was calm and expecting like a healthy discussion while writing that. So I had no ill feelings or some sort of mocking stuff.
I speak multiple languages so have language barriers to work on further it seems. so I Am sorry for this apparent misunderstanding of my intentions 🙌
And for the love of god I am not being "ironic" or "sarcastic". Just serious cultural barriers so bare with me here. Thank you for assuming it's not intentional because I can confirm it was not. 😅

I use emoji's to sound less serious or rude. that I am looking at it, it could translate to someone as being ironic? I don't know.

 

 

2 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

I argue consistency, if you choose to validate one fear, you should accept every fear is as valid as others and find a solution for all other fears as well. What i do not want is Developers walking on eggshells while making a story, because it might trigger some phobias, they should offer alternatives for people, who still struggle with phobias or are not yet in the position where they want to face the phobia.

I do believe in that though. that all fears should be heard.
It's up to the developers to chose what they can do to help within their limit and time. And of course as long it's logical and makes sense.
If something pops out that seems problematic and needs an option somewhere in the settings, like why not?

I am not saying here that the DEVs should hear every single person and do something about it. I just think people should feel comfortable to express it.
In the end the choice is strictly. If someone feels entitled more about the fact the devs didn't do about his fear then that is more of his personal problem.
The issue alings within the limit of expression.

I mean wouldn't you find it wonderful if you see a lot of options in the settings for things you have no fear of?
Like I would consider that lovely that this game developers care about their community.
again only when they can and want to. because devs shouldn't be walking on eggshells as you expressed your concerns about it that they now have to move and help every odd and strange phobia to exist.

 

 

2 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

Validating some fears by acting on them when popping up, while hearing but neglecting others, will make people feel betrayed and invalidated as a person by the developer, which counters the inclusion DE preaches. Hearing all phobias, while only acting on a few of them will cause rifts in your community.

again you can't please everyone. it's simply impossible.
But excuse me if I misunderstood you here but it sounds to me like "they shouldn't listen to you because if they do then they have to listen to others" 
and again i am not trying to be aggressive or have any ill intentions here just strictly for a healthy discussion.

I believe people should express but should never be feeling entitled everyone demands must be met. Then whoever is requesting his phobia to be heard and then spams and insult devs later for not hearing him out at that point shouldn't be heard at all. that's harassment and borderline terrible behavior that should not be tolerated. 
Just express your phobia maybe a month, a year, couple of years it can be added or not. nobody should expect anything.
But maybe in my own little fantasy world that how i imagine it to work 😅
what can be added is strictly up to the developers in my opinion of course. 

 

 

2 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

again make your text more personal aggression towards me, caused by an emotion of yours, than a valid argument.

😅 I am once again super confused about this as well.
I was just explaining how the narrative of "it's not this actually because it's this" seemed odd so I used examples and such to explain from my point of view how it might sound to others while it makes sense to you. Trust me I had no personal aggression against you. I was really calm if anything I was laughing at my own example because it reminded me of personal situations I found hilarious with close friends. I apologize.

 

 

3 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

You dictating how i should live/cope/deal/communicate with my fear, is crossing a line, you do not have any moral authority over me or anyone else. I choose what, how and with what level of comfort I want to live, as others do. I will ask for help if i need it, i do not want to have to look at a placeholder because i could not face my fear, that is how i think about it and that is how i live and choose to live everyday. Handling fear, communicating it and asking for help with it is a personal matter and not something anyone can be "right or wrong" about. it is a choice, not a question of morality, ethics or even representation of others. Things you don't respect by telling me what I should do, claiming moral authority here is just showing how you don't think anyone who has an opinion differing from yours deserves any respect.

"not cope, learn to play with it" ~you, this is you stating the point you are arguing against, honestly what do you mean here? should OP not cope and play with fear?
will again chart this mistake up to the medication.

._.
Well, I suppose I owe you whole explanation behind my mind set over there because this seems like a whole misunderstanding.
Didn't come across my mind to dictate on you anything actually.

This whole time reading your text I had the impression in my mind that you also had fears or felt that you are not "allowed" to voice your problems but you had to face them in place of getting an option to ease your experience.

The impression i got like "wait? why this person had to adapt and put it on himself and effort in order to enjoy the game, he should have the right to choice his concern about his fears" 
so I took it in a sense there is some sort of situation where people are feeling oppressed of "I have this issue but I can't voice my concern" 
why? is the community that hostile? will people attack you? who are those people to get in the way of expressing your voice.
Because at this point in the discussion I had the impression of you that you were against people expressing their concerns for phobia in the sense of "if they listen to you they have to listen to others" and due to this mentality you also didn't voice yours. I am not meaning to across any line here.

Obviously this is not the case with you i am currently just explaining my thought process at that moment.
Like yes, you should be able express it, what stopped you? but it's far more personal.

I request you to pardon my approach due to cultural and languages barriers here because I am literally beyond shocked at the way you took what I said in a way I never expected in million years. And to make this perfectly clear no and I have no right to tell you how you should do anything nobody should be actually. just to make that clear. My fault here is I took for granted that I came across how it made sense at it sounded in my mind. 

Matter fact I was sympathetic in your regard about the subject on this and I was wondering why you aren't expressing yourself about your fear of needles, it should have a solution for that.
You also should have the right ask for an option. why cope and adapt when your experience could be better by a simple option for that as well! in this sense, but it's your choice to decide what you want to do. 
I personally know people that have deep fear of the same thing (thankfully they don't play the game), many are just like you out there. They should add a feature about it (speaking in general). Seriously I am not thinking i had moral authority or something.

In this whole section I will have to say, I am simply at disbelief i indirectly come across disrespectful. My apology.

and to answer you "shouldn't OP not cope and live with fear?" 
I say it's context!
the OP stated clearly they just want an option they could use. They tried coping but it's too in the face. and again you gave me the impression of "if they had to listen to you they had to listen to others" 
I was more leaning towards "everyone should have the right to express their concerns and fears they wish an option in the game for dealing with them than be shot down by others just because they speak"
I really hope you understand my point of view here. This is just a massive misunderstanding.

and no it was not the medication, it only caused me to say same word twice and massive punctuation and spelling errors. 😂


 

 

3 hours ago, 3xt1inct said:

Again No, I'm not overthinking, I'm throwing out hypotheses and their potential impact, aka I'm speculating. Yes ofcourse cosmetic checks can work, but already back in 2019 DE had a devstream about how difficult it is tying new content into the game due to it being spaghetticoded, this system would require manier years of work. On top of that lets say bob has a good fashion on a warframe or kavat that they would like to show off, but then dave has no cats toggled, bob will be mad his cat is now whatever DE turned it into. 

Devs are hearing ppl out about things they can change, that benefit community in general. What you need to understand is that DE is a Canadian company, in North America pregnancy, abortion and children are very significant friction points these days (even though they should not be, your body your choice, then again no reason to turn this page political). This will have impact in the NA catholic community, as they will potentially take it as a pro abortion stance from DE, or it will potentially resonate with pregnant women  (yes some play warframe) that their bodies are not desired, which will end in an issue with body positivity. In NA things like this get taken political very quickly and i think they are avoiding that bad publicity.

A potential reason they might have added a pregnant warframe, to make one of their currently pregnant employee, or pregnant persons in general feel seen and validated, if skinned without belly, they would take this as an offense equal to the fear of OP, being unjustifiably thrown in her (assumption, tell me if I'm wrong, pls) face, the logic and reasoning is which group will be hurt more and which of those groups guarantees more income.

I know how coding works, it is part of my job, i think you underestimate how complex coding functions like this is.

I have no right to speak on any of these matters and not educated enough to discuss them.
I am also fully ignorant when it comes to coding so I will take your word for it. My understanding of it is "only devs know how" but really I could easily be wrong and I will admit my limited (none existent knowledge).

 

[S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E]

With all the new faces appearing in this thread in support of some form of toggle or options regarding Jade, I am leaving the link to the petition here!

A signature would be amazing 👏 

https://chng.it/2RtqfJztkv

 

Let's keep this up and show DE!

Edited Saturday at 11:53 PM by S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E

[WanderingJoe]

1 hour ago, WanderingJoe said:

They made the Styanax Tonatiuh "embelishments" optional

 

21 minutes ago, VENDOMINUS said:

Styanax deluxe skin had tassels, that were made removeable via the axillary slot too(they weren't originally). It didn't take DE too long to make it happen either.

Yup. exactly.

[Nekomian]

3 hours ago, Vaalyah said:

Since the fix is super easy (selecting the polygons in that area and hiding them), can we have the option to remove them in the appearance menu?"

To preface this, this isn't meant to be a "for" or "against" statement - just wanted to point out that it's not as simple as that, they would need to alter the mesh of the model (to make the form flatter) and change / swap the texture work. I can't imagine it would take too long (they could just dynamically alter / morph the mesh on toggle and swap the texture, though they'd have to rework some animation sets and possibly adjust attachment snapping to accommodate it), but a 3D modeler would be able to give more insight into specifics.

[WanderingJoe]

Well, this is where it would be nice to get some response from DE. It may be a bit of an ask but no one has told us anything about our worries. I personally am going to wait and see if it takes them a dev stream or two after Tennocon. Until then, this is neither a yes or no situation. Its up to them to decide if the trouble of changing things is worth it, so why not make our opinion known until then?

[SaintAlfi]

1 hour ago, WanderingJoe said:

Well, this is where it would be nice to get some response from DE. It may be a bit of an ask but no one has told us anything about our worries. I personally am going to wait and see if it takes them a dev stream or two after Tennocon. Until then, this is neither a yes or no situation. Its up to them to decide if the trouble of changing things is worth it, so why not make our opinion known until then?

I think its all but a guarantee they do address it at some point (my guess is after Tennocon). The spoiler embargo ends then, and I assume that's the biggest reason for no communication, no "we've heard your feedback". I'd be somewhat surprised if they address it in a devshort beforehand (or even at Tennocon). 

Question is, how much do they address it? Dante's breaking of the kneecaps (and the backhand to Nezha to a lesser extent) caused a massive backlash that was pretty much addressed within a week. But that was only a gross over-nerf. This is a little different, to say the least. How do they even begin to address something like this?    

[WanderingJoe]

Then we reage like Helldivers didd with Sony-! No, sorry, perhaps a poor joke then. If DE doesn't reply (I'm sure we'd need to adress this at somepoint) then that may as will be our answer then. I would like to advocate that we handle it with civility... but then again I really, really, really, really want to see if they'll give us a toggle. 

Part of requesting something in good faith is being willing to accept an answer in good faith as well, even if its not the one you want.

 

....I want the answer to be the one I want though.

Edited Sunday at 03:07 AM by WanderingJoe

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 2024-06-28 at 12:11 AM, WanderingJoe said:

And thats what this all comes down to at the end of the day. This isnt really about players convincing other players, its about the players that are uncomfortable making a request for a Qol change from DE.

Since DE are blocking the words on their twitch chat and blocking players, I don't think DE care

[Circle_of_Psi]

Huh, I didn't know what Tokophobia  was until today

 

Every day is a school day!

 

But onto topic: Hope you can sort this OP, wish you luck o7

[BlackKisa]

Thank you for the thread.

I also happen to have pregnancy phobia. Bought the 'frame as soon as she was released, had no idea about this stuff, until I saw her idle animation. Now, at best, I get very uneasy when thinking about her. Have to try to convince myself it's not actually there, that it is just power core or eye, but the feeling doesn't go away. It's an almost visceral reaction, it doesn't necessarily make sense, so no amount of rationalizing or saying "It just looks like pregnancy" is going to stop causing those feelings. If I could its-just-a-game those feelings away, I would.

That's why I would also love if DE gave us an option to remove that part of Jade's look. Please, DE.

Edited Sunday at 10:49 AM by BlackKisa

[WanderingJoe]

What words? Also, there's a spoiler embargo up at the moment

[S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E]

12 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

What words? Also, there's a spoiler embargo up at the moment

Sounds like they are censoring the "P" word, the same seemingly happened in the last devshot also.

[Golden_Tatsuo]

I get that its just a glowing orb in her stomach but theres something deeply unsettling about going into battle with a visibly pregnant warframe (to me, at least). 

I kind of want a Jade skin that is NOT pregnant or an option for non-pregnant Jade/toggle. 

[Slayer-.]

It's a game.  

 

[(PSN)Sentiel]

1 minute ago, Golden_Tatsuo said:

I get that its just a glowing orb in her stomach but theres something deeply unsettling about going into battle with a visibly pregnant warframe (to me, at least). 

I kind of want a Jade skin that is NOT pregnant or an option for non-pregnant Jade/toggle. 

Unless the topics are being merged or deleted, you'll find several of them, so yeah, there is a part of the community that feels weird and/or uncomfortable with bringing a pregnant looking woman (Warframe bilogy aside) to the combat zone.

[.Fire_Fly.]

nope im fine with it its our work what woman didn't go to work pregnant ?

[Joezone619]

Absolutely, did nobody at DE look at jade and think twice? Not to mention helminth...

[Rexis12]

No more weirder than a Lady with her Wolves spiritual and perrmenantly attached to her, another Lady who's body looked like it was tortured by a mideval torturer, and a Guy who's design literally just has his guts out. 

I ain't concerned. 

[RichardKam]

5分钟前 , .Fire_Fly. 说:

nope im fine with it its our work what woman didn't go to work pregnant ?

Pregnancy never stop women being badass.

Although, medically speaking, pregnant human women should avoid unnecessary labor. But Jade is a warframe so.

[Golden_Tatsuo]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Unless the topics are being merged or deleted, you'll find several of them, so yeah, there is a part of the community that feels weird and/or uncomfortable with bringing a pregnant looking woman (Warframe bilogy aside) to the combat zone.

Ahh, I didnt see any when I took a quick look, as most posts were either lore or new content related. Must have missed them. 

And while, yes, it IS a game, thats quite reductive. 

We, the Tenno, are effectively child-soldiers, but we cant "die" on the battlefield. If Jade goes down and dies, the little orb's light is out. 

[WanderingJoe]

Well, hopefully spoilers are the only reason why. Wouldn't want them to feel uncomfortable or anything.

[Xycelium]

Reminder guys; Jade isn't literally pregnant when she's rebuilt as our own Warframe, only that she has the shape and appearance of such.

Plus, I don't think it would be reasonable to say that human Jade would have predicted that she would have been picked for becoming a Warframe so, there's a point to be made that not everyone who is going through some sort of process like that should be subject to scrutiny that they couldn't control.