Jade is making me and a lot of other people uncomfortable

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , (PSN)slightconfuzzled 说:

The only thing I think is weird and uncomfortable is the severe lack of tag team attacks between Jade and her glowing energy baby. 

Real missed opportunity. Support Frame, healing, angel, whatever, thats so 2023. Catch this, how about an Ability call "Babysitter" where Jade reaches into her own belly, and yoinks her energy baby at either an ally or enemy. Umbilical cord is still attached, so its basically like Nidus link ability, really. If its an allied Warframe, the attached energy baby will give Overguard, Increased Vitality and Speed. The sort of things you need, when babysitting. If its an enemy? The baby will slowly choke it with the Umbilical cord, inflicting Void Damage, and a Viral Status, Toxic, Gas and Heat Status, making it an excellent Primer as well as possibly opening up a new Eidolon Hunting meta. (The yeet your baby at Terry, Gary and Harry meta). 

How about another ability. Late Night Cravings. Everyone knows pregnant people have weird cravings, so why not just let her eat all the enemies. Especally since Grendel has an eating limit, you give his old tech to Jade and let her just straight up eat everything. Can even have little visuals of the enemies in her open transparent glowing womb, alongside the energy baby. Obviously no boss enemies, but definitely let her devour the Stalker, it can be romantic you know? Plus make Belly of the Beast literal. 

Plus how many enemies you eat, you can have her Ultimate ability called Fetus Deletus, where the energy fetus baby, enriched by the nutrients of enemy factions, crawls out of the energy womb, grows massive and starts to Nuke all enemies on the map. Like some massive Eldritch Giga Fetus Entity. Just straight up insta nuke all enemies currently spawned. Then the baby gets small, and crawls back into the glowing energy womb. Its not like she will out DPS Saryn or Dante. 

I hope the next pregnant themed Warframe actually has some guts and innovation with its design and gameplay loop, instead of being so vanilla, cliche and predictable. 

Calm down, please.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

4 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Calm down, please.

 

No no... I'm cooking.

Lets introduce Loot mechanics. Sacrifice your baby for a health and armour reduction but a double resource boost that stacks with Smeeta Charm. Can be ability 3. Energy baby will revitalise after 5 minutes, so you can sacrifice it multiple times. 

The patch notes will be funny. 

Update 34.5.0:

• We have temporary capped the Sacrifice Your Baby Jade ability to 4 times when an exploit involving Radiation procs, allowed multiple Jade Warframes to Sacrifice Each Others Babies, leading to exponential Resource Boosting to exceed the expected amount. Players who have received 264, 000, 000 Steel Essence will be allowed to keep them.
• Patched an issue allowing Jade babies to one shot Sisters and Hounds. 

(If it wasn't incredibly obviously, I should clarify I am only being sarcastic, and in a very light non serious way). 

[_Anise_]

What if DE cave and give you your toggle?, I am still going to play jade, I am still going to have the belly and I am still going to be downed and you will see me in that state waiting to be revived... or die.

so there is still going to be a "pregnant warframe" in your "warzone" or are you asking for a toggle to change how I look too? are you going to quit any game you see an untoggled jade in?  or stick to playing entirely solo?

if people are uncomfortable they are going to have to play in a bubble to avoid it regardless,

Your proposed solution dosn't really fix what you are saying it fixes!

Edited Tuesday at 04:07 AM by _Anise_

[WanderingJoe]

Right but if there's a toggle I can stick to friends only. I can also decide wether or not to leave the mission at the begining after seeing what kind of jade you have. it would require no input on your behalf for me to manage  my behavior. Im not asking DE to regulate you, im asking DE to give us a tool to regulate ourselves.

9 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

if people are uncomfortable they are going to have to play in a bubble to avoid it regardless,

And that's thier prerogative. Mind you that playing in a bubble is a solution a couple people suggested we should do rather than ask DE for an alternative. We'll worry about ourselves and you can worry about yourself. We're just asking DE for a way to have more fun in our own bubble, as you put it.

Edited Tuesday at 01:45 PM by WanderingJoe
Spelling

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

44 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

The argument about Harrow, my first instinct is to point out that the game markets itself as a violent game, not one about pregnancy. Those that do are... of a different genre. 

 

Sure, and I think thats a reasonable approach, but I do think it could potentially conflict with some of your other points. How people interpret the games marketing and what is and isn't fine is going to be quite subjective. I am sure as an individual, regardless you wouldn't try to undermine or invalidate a persons trauma or sense of discomfort over something, even if you personally feel otherwise. 

 

47 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

The best I could think of is if somehow there was a frame that like... I don't know, had... I can't think of an example that is as perfectly fine as pregnancy but that wouldn't cause people to be offended by comparing pregnancy to it. Like mentioning some kind of disability that people might get offended over but might be kinda cool to others (wheelchair frame anyone?) could easily offend someone that I was comparing pregnancy to disability, which I'm not. The point is that there are plenty of conditions, that are perfectly fine in everyday society, that people wouldn't play as in a videogame because that's not thier idea of a game they want to play.

 

Great and interesting example, just that we have to distinguish between people not wanting to play something, and a game having to address two different issues. The practicalities of implementing and accomodating such players, (which actually may not be that pressing or large an issue, in a game with paid and regular cosmetics). For example Lucio from Overwatch has prosthetic legs, but some of his skins, that design aspect is relatively more subtle. Then there is the design intent/integrity aspect, which may be more nuanced. It may just be something that players have to get over, cope with, take issue with, but not necessarily get addressed or rectified. 

For example, when I think if I have ever been personally critical of a games execution and use of pregnancy... I can think of one. Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, where the DLC where, well I won't go too much into it, but it caused a bit of a controversy, it involved LGBQT+ player agency, story and character choices and a plot involving "continuing your bloodline". The creative director did address the issues, apologised, said their creative decision and execution was poorly executed, but eh. Still left a bad impression on many players. That isn't the sole reason I don't play Assassins Creed games anymore, but its a small contributing factor. I think DE's handling of the subject matter far better and well executed, but I wouldn't criticise anyone for having issues with a game and no longer actively supporting it. If thats how strongly they feel about the matter. Or alternatively, just articulating and vocalising such issues. 

 

1 hour ago, WanderingJoe said:

I don't want to play as a litteral toddler in a war zone! That's not my idea of a fun game!

 

Sure but thats also an interpretation. For some context matters. I wouldn't want to brutally capture and imprison vulnerable animals, but say Ape Escape is different to say The Planet of the Apes movies. Context matters. If DE explains and clarifies that Jade Warframes pregnancy (as in the Warframe) is symbolic and no actual newborn child or mother is actually at risk. 1. Doesn't necessarily alleviate peoples discomfort and issues anyway. So as a point overall, contextually its not really a strong point aside from acknowledging that people can be different and have different preferences and 2. Peoples personal interpretations can warp any situation to justify their own feelings and beliefs, but its not necessarily a good thing to try and accomodate all people in this way, because peoples subjective feelings (and trauma) can infringe on the rights and feelings and trauma of others. 

So transparency and acknowledgement of such processes are important for healthy interactions. Its easy to demonstrate too, Person A interprets all Warframes as requiring Tenno, Tenno who were adolescents and had to make a deal with a shadowy, sinister figure, and used to be expendable war machines for an empire. It makes them uncomfortable, experience trauma because of domestic abuse, and they request that Operators be retconned and only Drifters should exist. The bit about them being uncomfortable, and having trauma, that bit is fine. Its valid, we can acknowledge it, understand it, respect it. That doesn't necessarily mean, that there conclusions that Operators must be removed or retconned has to happen.

We can separate the discomfort, trauma, feelings of discomfort, from consequences, changes, ideas, practices. It is more complex, because we (people in general, and game devs) can accomodate such feelings and look for solutions for some, to maximise peoples preferences and choices, after all... Not all preferences, desires, feelings, thoughts inherently conflict, but they can compete and sometimes they might conflict a little. 

For example with Assassins Creed Odyssey, my issue was they wanted to give player choices and agency, but also wanted to have a predetermined story arc, that infringed on player choices around a pretty sensitive topic. I wasn't really uncomfortable, just more critical. They did try to make amends but they also suffered some backlash, loss of goodwill. 

I also don't think there is a right or wrong example, but context and variables are present. 

 

1 hour ago, WanderingJoe said:

And so here we are. Jade's design is not what we consider to be a fun esthetic and we'd like to let DE know that. We've even proposed a possible solution. We're not here to consider employe workload, we're not here to consider the person who thought up the idea of a playable pregnant warframe. That's for DE to take care of as a buisness. We are the customers to said buisness, filling out the survey on the receipt. We've alerted the company we frequent of an issue we had and it's up to them to implement anything, and the logistics of doing so if they decide to accept our suggestion. I don't think anyone here is expecting more than that as a customer/buisness interaction.

 

Some can, regarding your latter statement. Some people and this is a very human thing to do, but some people place greater importance in their single personal preference and views, than others. Its how people can use rhetoric. Even how people may use language and terms Like I or we. A lot of its pretty innocent, typical, and routine. We often inherently want to frame our points and ideas to others in a way to make them seem slightly more compelling, more persuasive, more intelligent, more articulate, but depending on the situation, well sometimes all that is a non factor. Some people do involve employee workload, because an argument they might make, is that ist easy and to give examples of what it would be easy and doable, citing other characters skins, aesthetics, auxiliaries etc and also... thats valid. Thats fine. Thats not an inherently bad thing. Some people have involved the people who had the idea, accusations of fetishes, that they are out of touch, and so on. Depending on the context... like I am aware that some artists in comics have had some pretty flimsy and fetishy reasons for certain creative decisions... So accusations there might actually be fair, even if I don't find it fair here... So again, context issue. If you personally, aren't speaking of them thats fine and fair too, just a lot of my comments address many multiple variables and context. Usually in a way where nothing is inherently or innately bad or good. Just depending on the context. 

A lot of the people who have diverging views are also customers to said business, but then at that level of introspection, well is this just about individuals selfish familiarity in expressing discomfort, and random people online disagreeing or agreeing for their own, also selfish reasons, or is this actually about having sincere points of views, and being able to understand and acknowledge others with their own separate views, and what that might mean realistically about changes, and what should be changed and what shouldn't be. I mostly choose to approach all this, as if its the latter. An individuals willingness to consider or not consider aspects, is their own choice, but its going to factor into what happens, especially as far as understanding actions as well (like is it malice or spite that DE haven't addressed this issue or do some potentially overestimate how severe and pressing an issue this is relative to others?)

Like thats a whole thing as well. Personally, even when I am critical of DE, I prefer them to take their time with addressing certain issues. I personally don't think a lack of urgent response is necessarily them being mocking, apathetic, or anything negative. Some other people think and feel differently, and thats fine too, I just disagree. That being said, the way some people frame the issue, I am surprised they still play the game, because if their rhetoric was that DE was as disrespectful, fickle, insensitive, and greedy as they claim, I personally wouldn't want to support them at all. Not with engagement or my time. 

Some great points you made too, and just to be clear, I agree with a lot, if not most of them. Above isn't necessarily disagreeing, just touching on some issues I think are somewhat relevant around the overall discourse. 

Cheers and take care. 

[PrideB4TheFall]

Getting downed in a mission kinda feels wrong... over and above the typical any other warframe.  Just a unpleasantness I'm not feeling keen on. Dgmw, I like Jade, her kit, her flexibility etc. 

[Vaalyah]

4 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

If all you care about is DE's opinion, just ask them directly, direct messages or tickets to the support, idk.

I'm literally here because DE answered my ticket telling me to post on the forum, because tickets are only for billing and technical problems. As I had already stated before.

Kindly, do not jump in a discussion before reading the previous posts, or you'll lack context, thanks.

/////

Again, guys, my still unanswered question. Why are you all debating so strenuously against the request for an option THAT WILL NOT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY?

Seriously, I'm struggling to understand. Unless you're afraid DE will ask you the money for the fix, or you gain some sadistic satisfaction in forcing people doing what makes them upset. Which one is it?

[Sirihitti]

I agree with the author of the topic, to see in the arsenal a still pregnant Jade showing off her belly in animation is deeply uncomfortable.  I have no aversion to pregnancy as such, but it is such an intimate, touching and not permanent condition that should not put such pressure on the viewer. Even my Barbie doll had the ability to change her belly. 
For me, this is even more incoherent with the plot of the quest - the character gave birth, the child was evacuated, and here she is again, like in a protracted nightmare. I would like to see an alternative skin (

[Luigispikachu]

I also would like to note that most of the arguments against a skin don't hold water. There's plenty of skins that re-imagine a frames visual design.

 

Regardless of how little I like it the yareli skin is a good example.

 

Now, can we get back to the real discussion without trying to shift the topic? Let's get that toggle DE.

[Digital_Malz]

8 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Except skins do not remove the visual identity of a Warframe. Grendel has alternative skins, still with a mouth on the belly, Nezha skins all have the Universal Ring, Wisp has no feet no matter the skin, everything I've listed in my first comment follows that same rule, even Dagath who only has a helmet skin also follows this rule by having a different looking hole to the head.

If you're not concerned about other people's criticism, this is probably not the way to proceed. If all you care about is DE's opinion, just ask them directly, direct messages or tickets to the support, idk. The point of a forum is to discuss about things and gathering opinions, not to flatter your ego when somebody likes your post or get upset when someone questions the logic behind it. Ain't me telling you to not be bothered, all I've posted about was lore and how it's translated not just in some junk text hidden whoever cares where, but physically on frames.

That being said, it's not the end of the world if you can't / don't want to play Jade for any reason, Warframe's character roaster is large enough to have everything you like, hate, are scared of, or even feel indifferent about. Some people have phobias about illnesses and stuff that would remind them about bubonic plague or whatever, they're probably not playing Nidus, and that's fine.

Tolerance is also coming to terms with things that do not please you but that you cannot change, and not wanting to see it destroyed.

 

Well, let me ask you this on Nezha specifically :

Has DE ever approved of a Nezha skin where he doesn't have his ring in his back?

I'll answer it myself, they have not. 1 Deluxe, has the ring; 3 Tennogen, all of them have the ring, Prime also has the ring.

As much as you "farmed and own" a frame that you "customized personally", it's still within DE's boundaries of what they consider possible. It's not so much "your character" as your interpretation of DE's trademarked character. At the end of the day, Nezha is still Nezha, even if you hit the randomization and end up with a certain someone's infamous color schemes.

A so called "perfect solution" is never one. It's nothing more than someone's own vision when criticism is thrown out the window.

Is DE's approach perfect? Obviously not, but at least it's consistent, and THAT is what's good about it.

It's just like when people are upset that a frame or another is gendered one way or another, doesn't suit them so they post about how they want a toggle button to have a different model to represent another gender, despite it being just as much lorebreaking, for reasons I explained in the spoiler already.

For all I've read, it doesn't seem like it. You're just making this up to make people who don't side with you look like idiots. Not very cool.

  

Well, outside of Moas and Ospreys, pretty much nothing in this game is a robot. Again, lore you partly get as early as The Second Dream quest and get expanded on a LOT in The Sacrifice quest.

 

Also for those who'd bring up Kullervo's daggers being removable... blades inserted into flesh is not so great to personal health, both physical and mental. A pregnant belly is for creating life. Not exactly the same kind of thing. Kind of the opposite actually. Let us not start comparing oranges to apples. And even if you do remove them on his skin, it doesn't change the fact that he still stabs himself with his 2, should he lack enemy targets. Hide them as much as you like, they're still here, and I can only guess people who have phobias around knives, suicide and other things Kullervo got going for him are probably not going to play him. And that's fine.

Also also : unless it's people playing her and shoving it into your face, you cannot conceively be able to see it yourself : if you have activated her 4, which is the only way to reveal it outside the Arsenal, then your rotation is LOCKED with the camera, meaning you can never have a different camera angle than where your warframe is looking.

 

If you so desperately want DE's word on this, bring their attention by flagging your own post, checking "this comment is fine but I want a moderator to know about this", and you'd probably have a better chance at them looking at it. But I'd doubt their response would please you too much. THE pregnant frame not having the definitive pregnant feature doesn't sound right, now, does it? I'm not trying to force anyone into agreeing with that, I'm just trying to have people think about the implications and consequences of their demands.

Just a question: how much would your gameplay be ruined by DE implementing a “toggle on/off” for Jade’s s belly?

I myself don’t see a problem on her belly (aesthetic maybe). But I feel empathetic enough for a lot of players who went through serious trauma (miscarriages, for example) and might feel really unsettled by that frames visual. Much more than “Nezha’s ring” (absurd comparison). 
 

DE knew they were doing something sensitive. There’s a disclaimer before you start the quest. There’s no disclaimer for Nezha’s ring 🤣

The Jade we built in our foundries is not the Jade who got pregnant from Sorren and gave birth. Why must our Jades be pregnant? In fact, it makes little sense. Either the Stalker will have thousands of sons, or the Holy Spirit will have judicial problems. 🤣
 

Instead of trying to justify and minimize the pain of a fellow Tenno, why not simply support them and say; “you know what, DE, I think it might be a good idea having a ‘toggle on/off’ for the belly”?

[Prof-Dante]

you know, I don't feel uncomfortable as much as before since the camera always shows her from the back while in her 4, and her wings cover her belly while on land.
in addition, I'm starting to not mind DE's direction to be honest, every game is the same nowadays, so why not make ours a bit unorthodox? We've had an obese frame, so fair's fair I guess lol

However, I imagine a deluxe skin that shows her with better looking wings, and without the belly.

Edited Tuesday at 01:10 PM by Prof-Dante

[_Anise_]

7 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

Right but if there's a toggle I can stick to friends only. I can also decide wether or not to leave the mission at the begining after seeing what kind of jade you have. it would require no input on your behalf for me to manage

  

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Do all the Jade complainers even realize the only place in the UNIVERSE you see her belly is in Captura mode when using Glory ?

- It's not visible in mission in "normal mode"

- It's not visible in mission in Glory mode as your Warframe turns with the camera

- It's not visible in relays as you can't even use Glory there

Are all the Jade complainers really asking for a toggle because they want to do Captura with Jade ? I can't believe it. Unlikely. If it's a matter of being triggered by a pregnant warframe, you won't have a toggle that change other players' appearance, so it's useless.

The above statement brings up a valid point that the character's belly may not be prominently visible during regular gameplay and may only be noticeable if specifically sought out. It is likely that most casual players may not even notice this aspect, and I believe those who claim it significantly impacts their enjoyment of the character's aesthetic may be overstating its importance.

I believe It's likely that players wouldn't go to great lengths to avoid her. In a group of friends, would you want to be the one to disrupt the fun by saying, "Hey, please don't pick Jade"? Or would you rather respect your friends' choices and not act as the fun police?

[WanderingJoe]

There was mentioned somewhere on these various jade appearance threads that there was someone who liked to play Taryn but isn't like how she looked. He bought the deluxe skin she has, the one that looks like a flower, and enjoyed it for a while... untill he looked at her feet, specifically how that skin has them crack open, like a seed pod opening iirc. From that point onward, he didn't like that skin either and now just doesn't play Taryn.

My point in bringing this up is that there are times where someone just can't get over something they have seen. If that hasn't happened to you, I'm very happy for that and thus won't give any examples. Information just sometimes intrudes on the mind. You mention being the fun police but I do actually have someone I know as a friend who feels he does have to be that guy. He also accepts when people say no and then just leaves rather than explain his whole drama with his family that recently involved pregnancy. That ends up bringing down the mood of the group.

We've had someone on these threads already quickly whip up a new mesh for Jade. According to him it wasn't that hard and I'd have to say it doesn't look like it took much work from my limited understanding of how that stuff works. Sure, you'd need to change the textures a bit but that's less than a day at the office. The implementation wouldn't be hard, so why not give a small cosmetic change for the people who are asking for it because they can't bring themselves to handle Jade's current appearance? The request for it is under the same spirit as DE asking you to hit confirm for the warning before the quest. Having the aditional option to have an alternate appearance for her does not change anything about her current appearance but it give a tool to those of us who have the itch in our brains that makes us uncomfortable about her. 

[Thanatos9t]

39 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

you know, I don't feel uncomfortable as much as before since the camera always shows her from the back while in her 4, and her wings cover her belly while on land.
in addition, I'm starting to not mind DE's direction to be honest, every game is the same nowadays, so why not make ours a bit unorthodox? We've had an obese frame, so fair's fair I guess lol

However, I imagine a deluxe skin that shows her with better looking wings, and without the belly.

Ironic using big chill as inspiration for a non-pregnant deluxe skin considering Big Chill the only one of Ben's Aliens to actually get pregnant (asexually) and lay eggs in an episode of Ben 10: Alien Force called 'Save the Last Dance'

Edited Tuesday at 01:49 PM by Thanatos9t

[_Anise_]

2 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

My point in bringing this up is that there are times where someone just can't get over something they have seen. If that hasn't happened to you, I'm very happy for that

It defiantly has! I've amassed a collection of frames that I've leveled up but no longer use solely based on their aesthetics. One prime example is Grendel, whose theme revolves around gluttony. While this theme may evoke negative associations for some, I, along with others, aren't requesting DE to create a slim toggle for Grendel. I understand that it's just a game, and his theme is integral to his character. Introducing a slim cosmetic for Grendel would contradict his essence. Similarly, I believe altering Jade to have a more flat appearance option wouldn't align with her maternal essence, in my perspective.

I acknowledge that Warframes that don't visually resonate with me are not for me, so I opt to play other frames.

 

13 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

I do actually have someone I know as a friend who feels he does have to be that guy

I mean I understand it, setting boundaries can be fun specially in a setting like dnd they can represent worldbuilding but at the same time it's sad to now allow certain freedoms, if someone fun polices me I probably wont play with them again, in fact I had someone keep asking me to join them as a loot mule Khora,  it became really annoying and I have avoided playing with him since.

 

15 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

We've had someone on these threads already quickly whip up a new mesh for Jade. According to him it wasn't that hard

Could you provide a link? I'm curious to see it. One thing to ponder is whether it's rigged, as that adds another layer of complexity, especially for her wings. Additionally I think the challenges faced by a solo creator in a garage differ from those of a large studio. For instance, google the Ringelmann effect.

[WanderingJoe]

6 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

Could you provide a link? I'm curious to see it.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1401700-can-we-have-a-non-pregnant-jade-skin/?do=findComment&comment=13072318

[_Anise_]

33 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1401700-can-we-have-a-non-pregnant-jade-skin/?do=findComment&comment=13072318

in the case of that example she went looking 3rd trimester pregnant to 1st trimester pregnant, I honestly don't mind that, it doesn't remove her transparent tummy or the glowing energy inside, it still implies the maternal pregnancy just at an earlier stage, would you be happy with a toggle that did that?

though I suspect you could just be using it as an example it can be changed? I understand it's possible, I 'd just rather DE focus those resources elsewhere, fixing graphical bugs making new cosmetics etc, e.g the meshes on the Deimos predasites are still broken years later!! (they litrally have holes where their tails and ears join)

also I just went and downloaded the tennogen file, there is no rigging information at all in that mesh so yeah I can see how someone could easily make that change in an afternoon, its still more complex if you are wanting an actual complete removal of those features

Edited Tuesday at 02:58 PM by _Anise_

[WanderingJoe]

Yeah I sent that mesh around to a couple of friend groups and they said they found it much more desirable as an alternative. Public said they created that mesh on their laptop so it probably was just something quick they made. 

[Thanatos9t]

20 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

also I just went and downloaded the tennogen file, there is no rigging information at all in that mesh so yeah I can see how someone could easily make that change in an afternoon

A word on Tennogen Warframe skins is that you cannot alter the body model on Tennogen skins, so the models provided for Tennogen submissions are just for skinning, they don't have rigging data.

Edited Tuesday at 03:00 PM by Thanatos9t
Wrong quote

[WanderingJoe]

Well, we're more so giving an example of how the model could be changed 

[Xycelium]

8 hours ago, Vaalyah said:

Again, guys, my still unanswered question. Why are you all debating so strenuously against the request for an option THAT WILL NOT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY?

Seriously, I'm struggling to understand. Unless you're afraid DE will ask you the money for the fix, or you gain some sadistic satisfaction in forcing people doing what makes them upset. Which one is it?

No offense but if you didn't want an open discussion in regards to whether or not a 'toggle' is worthy of being implemented based on specific phobias and whatnot, then both; why make a discussion in the first place, as it will literally be an "open" one by default, and why even disregard the arguments made by people who simply disagree? You can just choose to ignore them if you please.

And just to be clear, I am not worrying about DE charging money for a toggle like that, nor do I have any sadistic fantasy to make someone suffer or whatnot. I just do not see the purpose of removing a key part of a character's design when everything about their story is tied to that choice.

4 hours ago, Digital_Malz said:

The Jade we built in our foundries is not the Jade who got pregnant from Sorren and gave birth. Why must our Jades be pregnant?

Oh, this has a very simple answer; because that's how Jade looked. It's the same reason why we build Valkyr in her tortured and Corpus-mangled state, Xaku in their broken and fractured self, and etc. with any other refabricated Warframe. It's just a part of her design is all. And to be extremely clear; this Jade of ours is not *literally* pregnant, rather she has the appearance from her original form having been so.

[Thanatos9t]

12 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

Well, we're more so giving an example of how the model could be changed 

I know I was just explaining why the Jade Tennogen model doesn't have rigging data, as I've looked into doing Tennogen myself as I used to create skins and models for Unreal Tournament 2004.

Edited Tuesday at 03:14 PM by Thanatos9t

[Digital_Malz]

37 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

And just to be clear, I am not worrying about DE charging money for a toggle like that, nor do I have any sadistic fantasy to make someone suffer or whatnot. I just do not see the purpose of removing a key part of a character's design when everything about their story is tied to that choice.

4 hours ago, Digital_Malz said:

It doesn’t seem so. So far you’ve been so concerned on invalidating a simple request for a toggle on/off button that won’t in anyway affect YOUR gameplay.

What it seems to me is that you just feel the need to disagree, and simply has no empathy enough to understand how disturbing this issue may be for some people.

As I’ve said somewhere else, I myself have no issues with her belly, but I totally understand those who feel bad about it (I have friends who went through miscarriage), and I totally don’t mind and support a toggle on/off button. It won’t affect my gameplay. 

[SneakyErvin]

On 2024-07-01 at 3:26 PM, 3xt1inct said:

For someone who claims to be an educated enthusiast, you very quickly forgot about associative phobias, which applies to Primary Tokophobia as well as many others, source? my girlfriend, who has a Phd in Neurology and a masters in Medical psychiatry, who is active as a psychiatrist/medical researcher.

The associative form of primary tokophobia can be triggered by images of pregnant people or even physical features that resemble those of pregnant people, Tokophobia is one of the phobias that is currently still being investigated and that humanity has in no way perfect knowledge of, you base your opinions and conclusions on what you have read about it, true, but these are publications made with the available knowledge at that time, which is still nowhere near the complete image one would need to judge this case with this much confidence. ~my lovely girlfriend

Which would still not make it a case to change anything about regarding Jade. And it isnt positive it is actually that phobia that is tied to it, since it is just speculation. It also only applies to a small minority within the already rare overall phobia. We are already looking at a minority of the rare phobia incase the OP isnt actively pregnant, then if OP is triggered by the aestethics of Jade you are looking at an even smaller minority for that phobia.

There is no reason to single out Jade when in reality nearly every frame has a visual trigger for a severe phobia. Not to mention large parts of the rest of the game that also triggers a wide variety of them if people are at a point where they get affected by virtual imagry. Simple things as water, fire, rocks, lightning/electrics etc. that could potentially trigger a wide range of phobias if a person reacts to the virtual. Not to mention when we get deeper into it, such as specific parts, like Containment Wall, Rumblers, or just the visual state of Atlas and Qorvex alone, Volt/Gyre, Ignis or Hyekka Masters/Napalms shooting fire etc. Or even Saryn and what she visually represents with her skills. Then you also have people with phobias of animals or creatures, that would be effected equally to this by the kraken, venari or titania/her butterflies, or maybe even Oberon.

Simply to many potential visual triggers if you are to cater to one. One where you also need to look straight at it willingly in a special way, since you can only see it if you are willingly looking at the frame in the arsenal and click "Glory". In the gameplay you can never see it, because when Glory is active you cannot look at her from the front even. So you never even see it. As opposed to Atlas, Qorvex or Ember, where they are always visually present towards those phobias. 

I mean, it is insanity in itself to ask for changes like these. Because no one is more important than anyone else, no phobia is more real or relevant than another. Oh and should we forget about everyone with actual PTSD that still manage to play the game with the sound of explosions and gunfire going off?

[Xycelium]

10 minutes ago, Digital_Malz said:

It doesn’t seem so. So far you’ve been so concerned on invalidating a simple request for a toggle on/off button that won’t in anyway affect YOUR gameplay.

What it seems to me is that you just feel the need to disagree, and simply has no empathy enough to understand how disturbing this issue may be for some people.

As I’ve said somewhere else, I myself have no issues with her belly, but I totally understand those who feel bad about it (I have friends who went through miscarriage), and I totally don’t mind and support a toggle on/off button. It won’t affect my gameplay. 

When did I say anything about gameplay? I'm purely talking from a character design and story standpoint.

And why should I not be able to disagree? And why should my disagreeing imply that I have no empathy? You do realize that I can understand the disturbances that one can feel while also having a firm belief that not everything has to be accounted for because of such feelings.