I dislike the new resistances/status/armor rework.

[Tsukinoki]

13 hours ago, Xovon said:

You no longer need to experiment. You no longer need to research.

Here's a completely honest question:
When did this ever apply in the old system?

You never needed to memorize "Oh this unit has infested health, and this other unit has infested flesh health, and here is exactly how they are different from each other!"

You just brought heat/viral/slash because that worked on literally everything in the game.

 

You never needed to experiment or try to go "Does this grineer have alloy armor?  Or does it have ferrite armor?"
You just brought heat/viral/slash because that worked on literally everything in the game.

 

Add onto this how the game obscured the health and armor types and presented them the same to the player and it was just needless layers of complexity for the sake of complexity and added absolutely nothing to the actual gameplay or the moment-to-moment decisions of the players.

 

Having all that complexity didn't do anything but make things complex for no real reason.

13 hours ago, Xovon said:

as someone who had done the research on the old system, and was looking forward to facing the challenges of end game content with the solutions I had thought through, I am now left feeling very disappointed.

You're pining for something that was never there to begin with.

For the longest time in warframe status has been king, and has beaten out raw damage quite summarily.

Sure you could go "I need a radiation weapon and a corrosive weapon to deal with the grineer units on this map...." and then have to keep a running tally in your head of "Is the ballista ferrite or alloy armor?"
OR you could just bring heat/viral/slash and just kill everything much faster and not give a damn.

 

All that added complexity was just pure mechanical bloat that had little effect on the playstyles, weapon, and elements selected by the players, especially at the higher levels.

It didn't add anything material to the game.

[SneakyErvin]

I like the new system since it allows us more options to use damage type we might have not used much with the old. Since we no longer need to juggle resistances from multiple health types if we wanna use Toxin, Gas, Electric, Cold or now also Blast and Magnetic.

[Merkranire]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Here's a completely honest question:
When did this ever apply in the old system?

You never needed to memorize "Oh this unit has infested health, and this other unit has infested flesh health, and here is exactly how they are different from each other!"

You just brought heat/viral/slash because that worked on literally everything in the game.

 

You never needed to experiment or try to go "Does this grineer have alloy armor?  Or does it have ferrite armor?"
You just brought heat/viral/slash because that worked on literally everything in the game.

 

Add onto this how the game obscured the health and armor types and presented them the same to the player and it was just needless layers of complexity for the sake of complexity and added absolutely nothing to the actual gameplay or the moment-to-moment decisions of the players.

 

Having all that complexity didn't do anything but make things complex for no real reason.

You're pining for something that was never there to begin with.

For the longest time in warframe status has been king, and has beaten out raw damage quite summarily.

Sure you could go "I need a radiation weapon and a corrosive weapon to deal with the grineer units on this map...." and then have to keep a running tally in your head of "Is the ballista ferrite or alloy armor?"
OR you could just bring heat/viral/slash and just kill everything much faster and not give a damn.

 

All that added complexity was just pure mechanical bloat that had little effect on the playstyles, weapon, and elements selected by the players, especially at the higher levels.

It didn't add anything material to the game.

I’m so over players who never tried doing anything with the system acting like they know what they’re talking about while positing that their approach is the only one worth considering.

We get it, you just overpowered it, stop acting like that means anything other than you straight up have no idea what it actually brought to the table because you never tried doing anything with it

 

For christ’s sake, how do you think you get away with acting like you know anything when by your own admission you never bothered to learn?

[kuciol]

I assure you we know but we are not blind and we also know it didnt matter. You one shot everything anyway, if you dont you are not as good of a gamer you think you are.

[Tsukinoki]

38 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I like the new system since it allows us more options to use damage type we might have not used much with the old. Since we no longer need to juggle resistances from multiple health types if we wanna use Toxin, Gas, Electric, Cold or now also Blast and Magnetic.

Yeah, the update actually allows damage types to matter more than just the status they provide.

Especially with the change of how they rebalanced EHP so that while EHP is roughly the same, armor is now less of a problem but the base HP got a significant buff.
This in effect made slash weaker than it used to be by a bit, but made other damage types better by comparison since their EHP didn't change all that much.

Further corrosive and partial armor stripping actually does something now.  You don't have to worry about stripping away 80% of the enemies armor and leaving them with 95% DR from armor.

And magnetic now actually has a purpose since it can work on overguard as well as shields.

 

The actual damage types you use in the game now actually matter more than it used to under the old system where the only thing that really mattered was the status it provided.

 

Yes status is still king, Viral is still pretty much busted, but at least the actual base damage types matter more now.

Edited Tuesday at 01:53 PM by Tsukinoki

[Aruquae]

13 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I don't feel the same, but your feelings are valid.  I'm genuinely sorry that this overall gain resulted in your subjective loss, and you have my compassion.

I guess the bright side is that Warframe is still ridiculously complex; you will never truly be out of things to test, research, and experiment with.

This is true, I thought of the update less so on "No experiments" And moreso on, "This is better against this faction." Which is fine, but I can simply keep on using blast/magnetic like a weirdo.

[MutoManiac]

I tried the new blast, cold, etc. and wasn’t impressed, so I guess I’m doing something wrong. Heat with viral or corrosive is still my meta. Nothing has changed.

[MobyTheDuck]

Gotta say that after 10 years playing this, I never bothered to learn what damages are best with each enemy. Why? Because it barely mattered, there were too many health types to remember and the game barely explained health types/damage. Remember that you STILL need to scan enemies to see their health type?

I always modded for Corrosive/Cold, then changed to Viral/Heat after the Viral/Corrosive changes years ago.

Now we need to spend less time on research, less time looking at wikis, less time looking at youtubers, we have better shown explanation and have more time to shoot stuff in the face without worrying if my fart damage gun is weak/strong against their galvanized microplastic armor? GOOD.

 

[ominumi]

5 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Also I’m not completely agreeing with your idea of how overtly rewarding status proc experimentation is; status proc experiments are rewarding, that’s true, and engaging gameplay, customised as desired and flowing in interesting ways and using more of what I’d earned than some meta would allow if not working status proc experiments into the mix at the same time, was rewarding as well (if not more rewarding; big whoop, killed dudes fast while chasing some meta, leaving little to no actual gameplay, yaawwwwnn. Finding out the combinations is fun, actually using them on repeat endlessly is questionable on the fun scale, especially if I grew to resent new things earned)

You forget to add in warframe abilities into the equation for experimenting. Along side pet abilities. And weapon's unique traits. Anyone who test things out for beeg deeps will soon find out it gets old. Looking for a different distinct playstyle is far more exhilarating.

[Merkranire]

7 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Gotta say that after 10 years playing this, I never bothered to learn what damages are best with each enemy. Why? Because it barely mattered, there were too many health types to remember and the game barely explained health types/damage. Remember that you STILL need to scan enemies to see their health type?

I always modded for Corrosive/Cold, then changed to Viral/Heat after the Viral/Corrosive changes years ago.

Now we need to spend less time on research, less time looking at wikis, less time looking at youtubers, we have better shown explanation and have more time to shoot stuff in the face without worrying if my fart damage gun is weak/strong against their galvanized microplastic armor? GOOD.

 

Freaking narrow-minded power junkie players, never bothered engaging with the system and then acting like nothing was lost because they have all the imagination of a walnut, while those who aren’t so interested in endlessly boring gameplay lose alrernative approaches that had an impact on how the fights flowed and build considerations outside of “Matching the colours”

 

Possibly even some of them lamented that they weren’t experiencing something interesting and wishing the game could be more engaging; well guess what?

 

2 minutes ago, ominumi said:

You forget to add in warframe abilities into the equation for experimenting. Along side pet abilities. And weapon's unique traits. Anyone who test things out for beeg deeps will soon find out it gets old. Looking for a different distinct playstyle is far more exhilarating.

Sure. Anything we could get our hands on, not always swimming in endless energy, which could make experimenting that bit more interesting 

[_Eclips3_]

I get it's for a bit of gameplay diversity, but having a different mod setup for different enemies is pretty annoying. Would be a lot more straight forward if we only had to build for crit.

[ominumi]

Just now, _Eclips3_ said:

I get it's for a bit of gameplay diversity, but having a different mod setup for different enemies is pretty annoying. Would be a lot more straight forward if we only had to build for crit.

That's how it used to be. It made status weapons terrible. Hybrid weapons unusable. Now status procs are utility. No one wants to forgo utility over damage.

[Merkranire]

4 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

I get it's for a bit of gameplay diversity, but having a different mod setup for different enemies is pretty annoying. Would be a lot more straight forward if we only had to build for crit.

You were doing perfectly fine ignoring the system last I checked

[_Anise_]

15 hours ago, Xovon said:

You no longer need to experiment. You no longer need to research.

You just follow what the game tells you to do, and even at high levels you will do fine.

Before, I rarely delved into research or experimentation. Influenced by the notion that viral damage was effective, I indiscriminately applied it across all my gear (a common practice). I often paired it with heat as a secondary damage type. Following online guides, I crafted several weapons with corrosive damage. For my multi-beam weapon, I opted for radiation, intrigued by its potential for radiation spreading and uncertain about the optimal bonus element. Faction mods were never part of my loadout strategy (and still aren't).

The introduction of new elemental mechanics prompted me to explore the use of cold damage, which has proven to be enjoyable. It's gratifying to have found a form of crowd control that is effective against necramechs and other foes traditionally impervious to Warframe slows. I've even begun experimenting with blast damage, a concept I previously overlooked.

Despite these changes, I continue to wield my favorite weapons and resist conforming to conventional planetary recommendations. I'm enjoying it as always and having a blast 🧨

Edited Tuesday at 02:48 PM by _Anise_

[Merkranire]

8 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

Before, I rarely delved into research or experimentation. Influenced by the notion that viral damage was effective, I indiscriminately applied it across all my gear (a common practice). I often paired it with heat as a secondary damage type. Following online guides, I crafted several weapons with corrosive damage. For my multi-beam weapon, I opted for radiation, intrigued by its potential for radiation spreading and uncertain about the optimal bonus element. Faction mods were never part of my loadout strategy (and still aren't).

The introduction of new elemental mechanics prompted me to explore the use of cold damage, which has proven to be enjoyable. It's gratifying to have found a form of crowd control that is effective against necramechs and other foes traditionally impervious to Warframe slows. I've even begun experimenting with blast damage, a concept I previously overlooked.

Despite these changes, I continue to wield my favorite weapons and resist conforming to conventional planetary recommendations. I'm enjoying it as always and having a blast 🧨

Sounds like the damage type changes are doing exactly what they’re meant to do, which is to have players ignore them as per usual.

What was stopping you from exploring cold before?

[_Anise_]

Just now, Merkranire said:

What was stopping you from exploring cold before?

Initially, I was advised from more than one source that viral damage was sufficient across all factions, I favored including a defense strip in my loadouts for its effectiveness, especially since viral damage was versatile. I ran that against most missions and factions without having any issues so I had no need to explore cold

[Merkranire]

Just now, _Anise_ said:

Initially, I was advised from more than one source that viral damage was sufficient across all factions, I favored including a defense strip in my loadouts for its effectiveness, especially since viral damage was versatile. I ran that against most missions and factions without having any issues so I had no need to explore cold

Sounds about right. Freakin’ community and their teaching of limited approaches…

I guess at least now you’re exploring, and it sounds like you weren’t stopped in the past outside of just never playing around with it (cold was/is one of my favoured elements)

 

[XaoGarrent]

The problem with the old system was that there was no reasonable way to access many of the weaknesses.

There was no reason to bring a different loadout for Corpus than Grineer the vast majority of the time, because Corpus elemental weaknesses were split not just across the faction, but across individual units. You had two types of shields to contest with, and how much of their EHP those shields made up differed from unit to unit. Then once corpus shields broke, you were now hitting a completely different set of weaknesses, which changed depending on if you were shooting a robotic enemy or not.

It was very hard to kit around this. You could try and work around this by having your guns modded differently and swap between them, but that is just not synergistic to how Warframe's gameplay works and was extremely limiting to your loadout options. So what most people did is just ignore the weaknesses, and either just bypass shields with Toxin, or just bring very high damage and exploit the fact that corpus were/are kind of soft overall.

Grineer had a similar issue, but with Grineer you could "ignore" weaknesses and get results anyway, because their weaknesses overlapped with Corrosive and Viral.

Edited Tuesday at 03:40 PM by XaoGarrent

[kuciol]

1 hour ago, Merkranire said:

You know jack, and take your idea of “hitting harder = good gamer” and shove it up your backside.

It wasn’t about insta-killing, it was about intertwining gear and damage types in interesting ways that caused fights to play out in different ways with different wrinkles thrown into the mix due to not being able to just keep hitting with the singular weapon all the time, and much as you’d like to believe it didn’t matter, you had to work harder and invest more to overpower the resistances, narrowing your range of builds and options just so you could keep sucking at the game when you could have just learned some basics

Except it didnt. Get of your high horse, your attitude is just lame and doesnt help to prove your point. It doesnt matter if you one shot stuff with corosive, radiation cold or whatever. You did and do one shot everything except few heavy armored enemies. All of your pompous speech is worthless by that one simple fact. You are arguing with people with 10 times more knowledge and expierience. What makes you feel you know better is beyond me.

[Rexis12]

Also the new system works wonders for

"Do I want to bring in an extra element for Utility or just focus on pure damage."

Like I was considering to bring a Magnetic weapon for a Grineer mission, because I thought to my self 'There might be Eximus units and bringing along a Magnetic weapon might give me an advantage'.

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:09 PM by Rexis12

[Varzin13]

I'm personally happy with the change, I feel that the previous system pigeonholed us into relying on only a select few damage types, I believe the new system will open things up much better. My only complaint is the switch between Impact and Puncture. Previously you could generally consider Impact as an anti-Corpus damage type and Puncture as anti-Grineer, now they have been swapped so that Puncture is good against Corpus and Impact is good against Grineer. I understand why they made the change (has to do with Impact's status effect) but I think it would have made more sense to just swap the status effects instead of swapping which faction each was good against. Just think for a moment, between a blunt weapon and a piercing weapon which would you expect to be better against an armored foe? 

[XaoGarrent]

39 minutes ago, Varzin13 said:

between a blunt weapon and a piercing weapon which would you expect to be better against an armored foe? 

This actually depends very heavily on the armor. Lighter armors, sure, but historically, hammers were considered preferable to swords against heavily armored opponents, because while the sword will struggle to penetrate metal plates, the concussive force of a hammer will travel right through them.

https://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-weapons/medieval-warhammer/

Quote

Until the late medieval period, sharper weapons such as swords proved quite effective in wars and combat. However, the use of armor evolved over the centuries so that by the late medieval period, armors were made of a very thick metal plates with great curvature. This meant that weapons such as swords or axes couldn’t pierce through such armor and often ricocheted upon strike, leaving the armored enemy unharmed.

The War hammer was created as an effective counter to this development. The war hammer was able to carry the maximum impact of a blunt strike to the armor without the need to penetrate it. With an effective blow from a war hammer, for instance, a horseman could be dismounted relatively easily.

 

[Merkranire]

5 hours ago, kuciol said:

Except it didnt. Get of your high horse, your attitude is just lame and doesnt help to prove your point. It doesnt matter if you one shot stuff with corosive, radiation cold or whatever. You did and do one shot everything except few heavy armored enemies. All of your pompous speech is worthless by that one simple fact. You are arguing with people with 10 times more knowledge and expierience. What makes you feel you know better is beyond me.

Because you are lying to my face and somehow acting like you’re not when you say I one-shot things, because I didn’t one-shot things because I often (if not constantly) specifically combined build and content to engage with the systems because of what the systems brought to the table. Things which are now gone while you try and convince me nothing’s different, which may be true for you who think big DPeenS is the end all be all, but things changed for someone who did more than live in a few meta builds or offset themselves from the content they’re doing.

Just because you sucked at the game and needed to always be built higher than the content you were doing, hiding behind your builds because actually jumping into content you were actually built for would see you dead, doesn’t mean everyone did what you do, and every single build from the modless baseline had a limit to how far it’d go, which meant that it’d start engaging with systems the further it was pushed until it hit unbalanced SP which threw the rulebook out the window

I know you know nothing because you can’t get your head out of the ass of “Oh, one-shot kills, one shot kills!” long enough to realise the reason why you were one-shotting things, thinking it’s some kind of impressive feat to jump into content tens if not hundreds of levels lower than what you were built for and ignoring way more game mechanics than just the damage types

Edited Tuesday at 09:05 PM by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

5 hours ago, kuciol said:

Except it didnt. Get of your high horse, your attitude is just lame and doesnt help to prove your point. It doesnt matter if you one shot stuff with corosive, radiation cold or whatever. You did and do one shot everything except few heavy armored enemies. All of your pompous speech is worthless by that one simple fact. You are arguing with people with 10 times more knowledge and expierience. What makes you feel you know better is beyond me.

See, something that always struck me as off about players like you is that you seem to think there’s one way to build and play; you take the buildcrafting part of this game and distill it down to a handful of builds and loadouts that by player design ignore most of the game’s mechanics and systems, and then act like it only makes sense to endlessly live in those builds while being endlessly disappointed when the game doesn’t cough up something better while I’m horrified at what you’re missing out on, since there’s nothing stopping me from doing as you do (in moderation because it gets boring as balls), and there’s so much more to do besides that, endlessly jumping between engaging with and ignoring the gameplay at one’s discretion and being rewarded either way.

You got like, a fraction of the whole picture. Not even, because you’re so shoved into your corner and so out of touch with what’s possible while simultaneously so pleased with yourself that I’m not even sure what to think aside from you’ve been parroting builds from youtube and that’s all you know

Edited Tuesday at 09:44 PM by Merkranire

[Trollocaustic]

I just stack 3 combinations of elemental instances with each one making up for the weakness of the other so all factions are theoretically covered for any given mission.