Can we change Excalibur Umbra & Warrior's Rest?

[Atomic_Noodles]

Change Excalibur Umbra to not have Sentience by default.

Warrior's Rest renamed to Warrior's Rage

Warrior's Rage grants Excalibur Umbra Sentience.

[Zahnrad]

You could just, use the non-Umbra Excalibur.

Excal Umbra having sentience is literally his entire identity.

Removing that and forcing it behind an augment is just going to upset players.

If you were suggesting to make Sentience a toggle in the loadout or etc then I could get behind that. But this version of doing things is pretty much the same as "Creating a problem to sell a solution"

[Atomic_Noodles]

Either just make it a toggle is also a solution. Also he still has his Scarf,Umbral Mods and Radial Howl replacing Javelin.

 

Normal Excalibur has to also spend 2 TF Shards to match the base stats of Umbra too though.. And I'd be fine with Normal Umbra by now if stuff like Duviri forced your more Forma'd Item as the priority. (Which is a case for Excalibur)

Edited July 20 by Atomic_Noodles

[Zakkhar]

44 minutes ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

Either just make it a toggle is also a solution. Also he still has his Scarf,Umbral Mods and Radial Howl replacing Javelin.

Please don't. It may be super great idea for a bored veteran, but is a terrible one for literally everyone else.

[Atomic_Noodles]

How would making it a toggle be a terrible one? DE literally added recently some other QOL that can be set as toggles for the player too. (Auto-Fire for Semi Firing Weapons, Customizable Enemy/Ally/Player Highlighting)

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

Warrior's Rest renamed to Warrior's Rage

Warrior's Rage grants Excalibur Umbra Sentience.

No sane person would use this for this passive. Especially coonsidering how bugged it is due to cancelliing every possible buff during Transference.

Also then it should apply to Titania's Nezha's Passive Disabling Auguments: 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Controlled_Slide

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ironclad_Flight

 

8 minutes ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

How would making it a toggle be a terrible one? DE literally added recently some other QOL that can be set as toggles for the player too. (Auto-Fire for Semi Firing Weapons, Customizable Enemy/Ally/Player Highlighting)

Are you seriously  comparing Accesibility options with an option that breaks the lore, fashionframe and what not? How is that QOL for anyone? Why not erase Umbra from existence completely and only sell his accesories and ability effects for plat? Then you could toggle them all day long.

Edited July 20 by Zakkhar

[Marvelous_A]

All "disable passive" mods should just be toggles and not take an exilus slot.

[VisionAndVoice]

Make it a toggleable upgrade for every frame and that'd be neat. Maybe via another doodad you put onto your frame like a reactor or an eximus adapter.

34 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Why not erase Umbra from existence completely

Ballas approves of this idea.

[Thorham]

48 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Ballas approves of this idea.

Everyone who plays him most certainly doesn't.

[Atomic_Noodles]

Ironclad Flight.. I don't think anybody even uses that seriously (IIRC that was made just to pander to a former Warframe Creator) This one also only disables Vacuum while in her 4. Her entire passive still works outside of it and isn't generally a divisive passive effect.

Controlled Slide I think people also let it slide.. (heh) because Nezha's is more or less manageable and doesn't kill you and unlike Excalibur can deal with it.

Making it a toggle would be the best course of action and you already mentioned it yourself nobody would want Sentient Excalibur majority of the time being a hassle. Or just make it so his Sentience doesn't break the buffs in the first place or drop you dead if he somehow dies while you're in operator form would solve this.

[Waeleto]

I 100% agree with this and i made this suggestion MULTIPLE times when this augment released

I shouldn't be punished for playing the strongest available version of excal and asked to waste a mod slot to get rid of a bug 

Umbra shouldn't have the sentience by default and it should be move to warrior's rest instead 100%

[Xiothin]

There's a mod offered by Steel Meridian afaik that gives you access to Excalibur Umbra mods, and one of them gets rid of his sentience.

Kinda cruel lore-wise when you think about it though, lmao.

[ReddyDisco]

7 hours ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

And I'd be fine with Normal Umbra by now if stuff like Duviri forced your more Forma'd Item as the priority. (Which is a case for Excalibur)

I can't tell you how annoying this is, i have base variants and primes for a lot of frames for builds and more fashion slots but you only get the primes showing up in the circuit cave, thankfully i don't do duviri anymore : )

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, Xiothin said:

There's a mod offered by Steel Meridian afaik that gives you access to Excalibur Umbra mods

That doesnt make any sense.

1 hour ago, Xiothin said:

and one of them gets rid of his sentience.

Have you read the OP?

Quote

Change Excalibur Umbra to not have Sentience by default.

Warrior's Rest renamed to Warrior's Rage

Warrior's Rage grants Excalibur Umbra Sentience.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Warrior's_Rest

1 hour ago, Xiothin said:

Kinda cruel lore-wise when you think about it though, lmao.

Still withiin the bounds of Warframe. What OP is proposing is the real cruelty.

Edited July 20 by Zakkhar

[Atomic_Noodles]

I mean it could still make sense reversing the augment. We gave him therapy that he doesn't want to do stuff on his own and just chilling.

Augment just changing it to the point we wake him up to get angry enough to start acting on his own.

[Zakkhar]

On 2024-07-20 at 8:06 PM, Atomic_Noodles said:

We gave him therapy that he doesn't want to do stuff on his own and just chilling.

And by therapy you mean brainwashing and heavy medical sedation?

[Hedrok]

Just toggle option in arsenal similar to on/off "Prime Details" would be nice.

[-EmVuu-]

10 minutes ago, Hedrok said:

Just toggle option in arsenal similar to on/off "Prime Details" would be nice.

That is all that is needed, had to build normal excalibur for now. I would rather use Umbra.

[Raarsi]

Thinking a easier suggestion would be to instead buff mods like Warrior's Rest so that they're actually worth using a mod slot for.  At only 15% bonus ability strength, I think if DE didn't just spitball the same number they felt would fit like every other passive-removing mod (which obviously none of them do), they were likely only factoring in the damage loss from Umbra's actions during sentience and not from sacrificing any other mod to make it happen.

While I had considered using the mod when it first came out instead of needing a base Excalibur in addition to Umbra, I realized pretty quickly that any health, energy or ammo lost during sentience is usually restorable rather quickly given how many tools we have for that these days.  There are some other tricks to help too like don't have Exalted Blade active before transfer or Slash Dash as soon as you transfer back for the i-frame to give your shields some breathing room or pack arcanes or mods like Equilibrium to help with health or energy generation.  I've also noticed the majority of players complaining about Umbra's Sentience also seem to be the kind of players being in drifter/operator mode for longer than they need to be (normally more than 10 full seconds), which can be solved by either training how to not do that or by just picking a different frame since Umbra stresses a bit more of the back-and-forth on transference compared to other frames.

Now if only Umbra would default to melee weapons instead of primary weapons.  That'd be a nice suggestion too...

[Agall]

On 2024-07-19 at 11:50 PM, Atomic_Noodles said:

Change Excalibur Umbra to not have Sentience by default.

Warrior's Rest renamed to Warrior's Rage

Warrior's Rage grants Excalibur Umbra Sentience.

Sure, and make it usable on Prime.

 

On 2024-07-20 at 12:06 AM, Zahnrad said:

Excal Umbra having sentience is literally his entire identity.

^^^

5 hours ago, -EmVuu- said:

That is all that is needed, had to build normal excalibur for now. I would rather use Umbra.

DE probably doesn't want to allocate dev time to Excalibur. Maybe when they give him another mini rework and buff/rework his passive while also making Radial Javelin do useful damage.

On 2024-07-20 at 7:33 AM, Xiothin said:

There's a mod offered by Steel Meridian afaik that gives you access to Excalibur Umbra mods, and one of them gets rid of his sentience.

Kinda cruel lore-wise when you think about it though, lmao.

You'd think adding [Warrior's Rest] would quell almost all of the whining about Umbra vs Prime, but that's the optimist in me.

At this point, the only 'privilege' with Prime is being able to use Vazarin, since Umbra functionally requires Unairu with the augment. That's an acceptable trade in my books, since I fully mirrored my Prime build onto Umbra just to prove the point.

[Waeleto]

38 minutes ago, Agall said:

On 2024-07-20 at 9:06 AM, Zahnrad said:

Excal Umbra having sentience is literally his entire identity.

^^^

His identity is being excalibur prime for players who weren't here during the founder's program availability, Nothing more nothing less, Sentience passive is a nerf and nothing but a nerf

39 minutes ago, Agall said:

You'd think adding [Warrior's Rest] would quell almost all of the whining about Umbra vs Prime, but that's the optimist in me.

At this point, the only 'privilege' with Prime is being able to use Vazarin, since Umbra functionally requires Unairu with the augment. That's an acceptable trade in my books, since I fully mirrored my Prime build onto Umbra just to prove the point.

It'll NEVER be an acceptable trade because you're literally asking me to waste a mod slot to GET RID OF A BUG and until the sentience passive is removed excalibur prime will continue to offer gameplay advantage over umbra 

[Agall]

23 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

His identity is being excalibur prime for players who weren't here during the founder's program availability, Nothing more nothing less, Sentience passive is a nerf and nothing but a nerf

It'll NEVER be an acceptable trade because you're literally asking me to waste a mod slot to GET RID OF A BUG and until the sentience passive is removed excalibur prime will continue to offer gameplay advantage over umbra 

Umbra's existence is more than 'Excalibur Prime for players who weren't here during beta and spend in excess of $50 in the founder's program', its to fill a literal void in the game created by the founder's program. Its not nearly as much as an issue now a days as it was pre Exalted Blade, before Radial Javelin got nerfed into the ground, but that problem was solved with Umbra's addition. The quest itself being easily the best in the game.

The sentience 'bug' was definitely a problem, one I've been vocal about for a while (including before I started participating on the forums) that made Umbra neigh worthless for level cap endgame content. That's where [Warrior's Rest] made me so happy, since its now no longer a point of contention on end-game viability because of the sentience/specter 'bugs' with clearing buffs. Its simply not an issue now. I've gone as far as to polarize and equip full tau shards on Umbra just to be able to test my builds on him.

As someone who's mained Excalibur since 2013 and spends most of my time creating/testing build variations for the Warframe, I like to be able to share those builds with friends. Especially since the introduction of combinational shards and specifically the Violet Archon Shard, you really can't do it on regular Excalibur, since [Primed Flow] doesn't get him to 500 max energy (without sacrificing one of those shards for +energy). Excalibur is still by far the best 'melee only' Warframe, which has been my favorite part about Warframe since 2013.

Most of the builds I run on Excalibur use Unairu, but I've been experimenting with Vazarin. Really, either one is required to survive at end game because of their immunity procs. The primary reason I swapped to Vazarin on Prime was because of the armor rework, to test whether Vazarin's #2 mine and my 153 amp could successfully Last Grasp. Otherwise, Unairu is just as good, if not better, and I'll likely find myself testing Unairu again after discovering that [Astral Bond] stacks additively with [Eternal Logistics] to give you 100% amp efficiency, something that makes the Exard Scaffold absurdly good.

Without getting much much deeper into the 'secrets' of my build for all to see, Umbra should run Unairu anyways. The disadvantage of not being able to equip PSF (and let's be honest, most players with PSF have graduated to Warframes better than Excalibur except for weirdos like me) being entirely negated by Unairu. Most of the time, PSF is entirely redundant and I should just be running [Coaction Dift] or [Power Drift] instead because of Unairu.

Also, there's a cheaper and simpler variation of an Excalibur build that uses triple Umbra mods and [Arcane Battery]. To reach >500 max energy, it requires Unairu with its +200 armor. This variation isn't nearly as good as a fully min-maxed build (which only uses Umbral Intensify), but it is viable for SP and requires a lot less polarization. Umbra has the advantage of not requiring 3 Umbra forma to run the min-maxed setup, being I also use the Sacrificial set on my Exalted Blade.

[trst]

Letting players pick and choose the core identity of a frame is a ridiculous ask. It's up there with asking for fully modular frames.

But how about asking for the issue to be fixed instead of demanding bandaids? If there's issues or bugs with Umbra's passive then ask for those changes. Honestly there's no taking this community seriously when they lament over every bandaid DE makes while then demanding more. 

And if the idea is "well a toggle would be easier to implement" no it wouldn't be. Adding a UI toggle to disable an entire part of a frame is asking for multiple new additions to the system which are also more things to maintain. Where going in and making tweaks/fixes is just modifying existing work while not adding unnecessary complexity. 

Edited August 2 by trst

[AubreyA_M998]

On 2024-07-20 at 10:10 PM, Waeleto said:

Umbra shouldn't have the sentience by default and it should be move to warrior's rest instead 100%

Do you hate the storyline or something? Him having sentience is his whole deal

 

On 2024-07-21 at 4:06 AM, Atomic_Noodles said:

I mean it could still make sense reversing the augment. We gave him therapy that he doesn't want to do stuff on his own and just chilling.

Not how warframes work. The reason Excalibur Umbra is unique is because lore wise EVERY other warframe loses their personalities and sentience when they became warframes, whereas Excalibur was kinda like a failed experiment due to extreme trauma (and something else, i cant remember) and therefore had managed to keep his sentience. (In layman's terms and from what I understand.

 

On 2024-07-25 at 8:17 PM, Zakkhar said:

And by therapy you mean brainwashing and heavy medical sedation?

Amen 🙏 lol

 

3 hours ago, Waeleto said:

His identity is being excalibur prime for players who weren't here during the founder's program availability, Nothing more nothing less, Sentience passive is a nerf and nothing but a nerf

First.... untrue. Second... No. Third....Your point? 

 

3 hours ago, Waeleto said:

It'll NEVER be an acceptable trade because you're literally asking me to waste a mod slot to GET RID OF A BUG and until the sentience passive is removed excalibur prime will continue to offer gameplay advantage over umbra 

Womp womp. If ya don't like it play another warframe.

 

2 hours ago, Agall said:

Umbra's existence is more than 'Excalibur Prime for players who weren't here during beta and spend in excess of $50 in the founder's program', its to fill a literal void in the game created by the founder's program

Glad I'm not the only one who has a brain 👍👍

 

35 minutes ago, trst said:

Letting players pick and choose the core identity of a frame is a ridiculous ask. It's up there with asking for fully modular frames.

Another person with a brain. Nice.

 

 

 

Personally I quiet like excal, he's just really cool and wanting to remove his sentience is just silly to be honest. It removes a huge part of the lore element if ur able to control him like that. Plus if you manage mods right the slot for warrior's rest won't matter.

[Waeleto]

1 hour ago, AubreyA_M998 said:

Do you hate the storyline or something? Him having sentience is his whole deal

Lore isn't as important as gameplay and should never be prioritized over it

1 hour ago, AubreyA_M998 said:

Womp womp. If ya don't like it play another warframe.

I think you missed the fact that this is a place to give FEEDBACK