Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[Tiltskillet]

18 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I love that! 

(But if you were posting it as a serious rebuttal, it's not a great one.  Yes, sampling bias is an issue, but the existence of the phenomenon isn't evidence of bias in an actual survey, or what direction the hypothetical bias is going, or to what degree.)

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, Tiltskillet a dit :

I love that! 

(But if you were posting it as a serious rebuttal, it's not a great one.  Yes, sampling bias is an issue, but the existence of the phenomenon isn't evidence of bias in an actual survey, or what direction the hypothetical bias is going, or to what degree.)

It just that claiming that the average players time is 1500h, because a survey of 1700 players (that do survey, you know) made me laugh a bit. I don't know how many single players Warframe had since launch, but it is much, much more, and we all know it. And most of them didn't play that long. Of course, I don't have any evidence of it, but i'm trying to be realistic.

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

The core design is to "sell" the frame, to make you want to take him. Thats literaly it. Why do you think abilities have visuals in the first place? To look cool. For that WoooooW factor. Nothing more

What a copout. Ok, so then they should just give every Frame the Ember heirloom skin, because it will sell the Frame.

 

And then make every Frame have an ability that gives you a 10% chance for slain enemies to drop 1 plat. That will sell.

 

And they can all dual wield Unreal Tournament Redeemers. Because that will sell.

 

Themes are all erased, because their ACTUAL themes are "sell sell sell!"

 

Man you just say anything it takes to be contrarian.

 

Can we get off this hyper-derail about ability damage and shotguns? Continuing it is exactly what they want. Because it's an irrelevant distraction. I'm sure it happened naturally in conversation, but remember to periodically take a step back and reassess where the conversation is in the moment.

[dwqrf]

il y a 13 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

Exactly why it's just fallacious. It's forced. Indeed, how many times are we going to have to repeat exactly what you just said? I have also said this at least 10 times.

 

But...

"Hey, kid... it ain't that kinda thread."

 

And this really summarizes it.

He is panicking illogically. Just "maybe" this and "maybe" that. Completely afraid of any and all change, just because maybe his bubble will be disrupted.

 

And that's why no argument will ever be good enough. He simply does not want change. There is no such division as good change vs bad change, to him.

Only change.

 

And any change is seen as a threat.

This is why legitimate conversation cannot take place.

Dear 4thbro. We all here have seen your attempts at personnal attack towards me because my presence threaten your existence and your lies. 

Now, as you did before, you are again trying to parasite Pazuul's... Hu, @PublikDomain ideas, trying to make them your own, but we can see through it. He is smart, has great arguments, logic, and facts to back up his ideas. I don't have to agree with him, or @Loza03 for that matter, to respect them. They are entitle to have a opinion, and they do, and that stand by it, making them admirable foes in this conversation, which is the whole point of a forum.

You, on the others hand, never been able to contribute to the topic, and try to play victim again to abuse others' empathy to rally with your cause Against me, not For the idea. 

I'll give you three generous choices :

Either you come to deal with your issues with me in private messages, but you won't have a public to play victim for, nor and audience for your ego. And I promise a slaughter.

Or, you go away and never come back.

Or... Contribute to the topic.

Good luck, lil' Ballas.

[Zimzala]

This is even better than Felsagger drama.

[Loza03]

59 minutes ago, kuciol said:

The core design is to "sell" the frame, to make you want to take him. Thats literaly it. Why do you think abilities have visuals in the first place? To look cool. For that WoooooW factor. Nothing more.

Believe it or not, you are only digging the hole deeper here. Which is impressive since the game design knowledge in question is one I've literally talked about.

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

No im arguing that DE wants you to use weapons on later levels thats why they gave you a way to use ability to augment that. Augments exist exacly because of oportunity cost. Peacemakers are weapons and mesa also has augment for them. What stops DE to just roll in the augments as baseline for abilities? Balance and part of it is forcing us to use mods that dont give more power directly.

Mesa's augment isn't the same thing. You're arguing that the primary function of Volt's 1 is in the augment.

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

It also stuns the target. It also happens to be able to kill on early levels. Later on we are suposed to use weapons.

All electric procs stun the target. The stun is from the proc. Are you really arguing that this ability's main use is something you can't even mod for?

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

Changing a baseline how factions work is completely different than reworking most abilities. 

Most individual abilities would at most require numerical alterations, at least in a wide sweeping change (like an alteration to the energy system itself).

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

Did you even play them? Saryn is mostly weapon platform/caster hybrid. Her dmg ramps up but is there to help kill with weapons, her 3 augments her weapon and she has augment for her 1 to change it into buff. Qorvex cant kill anything on higher levels with his abilities, he is mostly CC/tank frame, same with Xaku, he has dmg buff and disarm. Its almost like frames are different from each other. You have tank frames, stealth frames, caster frames etc. Not every skill must be able to kill everything.

Did I say that 'every skill must be able to kill everything'? No, no I did not. In fact, I distinctly recall me noting that many abilities shouldn't be touched.

(also here's a video describing Qorvex on the Steel Path. Killing using abilities, the weapon being used to cluster enemies)

Spoiler

 

 

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

2. Is bs because DE doesnt want dirsuptive gameplay with ability spam on every frame, they want some frame to do that but not every. Embers 4 was exactly the afk playstyle they want to exterminate

4. i dont even know what you mean but that but veterans build are broken and will kill everything with abilities. You have access to more power than you will ever need. Even wisps electric motes kill stuff on low lvls.

5. Thats just your opinion. You have different types of frames for that purpose. Not every build must be viable. In order to have a good one you need also to have a bad one. Making everything work no matter what makes the game dull and boring. Why even try if you will win anyway? Why improve your build if no matter what you do just works?

2: Which is why the suggestions I'm discussing talks about the fact of needing to put better limiters on room clear abilities that would get more powerful. It's a two-birds-one-stone type situation. At the moment, much of the abilities do tend to be at a sort of hard line, differing only where they stop being useful. Volt's 1 once you get past Earth, and others much later. The 'Much Later' can easily become oppressive since Warframe powers generally cover a larger area without worrying about damage fall off. In a hypothetical abilities/energy 2.0 that's not running on the current aging system, reigning back the spamability of the most oppressive powers becomes much easier.

4: Mostly anything that involves using an ability for its secondary effect but the damage kills them. Limbo's banish at very low levels is a good example. Like I said, much less of a problem - just annoying. Still, 'annoying' isn't an experience we want to cultivate.

5: You might notice I called out that the build might be less powerful explicitly, but people wanting to express or engage in a different playstyle probably won't care. Reason 5 has nothing to do with powergaming. Powergaming and playstyle expression are different wants. Using Bartles taxonomy as a 'Close enough', powergamers generally exist in the 'Achievers' or 'Killers' category - players who seek to exert power and control over either the game world or other players In the interests of Warframe, a co-operative game, we want to either discourage 'Killer' players or redirect them towards the Conclave, and encourage 'Achievers'. However, there's also 'Explorers', who are defined by desiring to interact with the game world. In other words, these are the players who want to be messing around and doing something because it's cool. Like making a build with Ember that throws fireballs around and is generally a stereotypical pyromancer. This is where reason 5 comes in - Warframe as it is limits their ability to interact with the system on that level. That's a bad thing - we want to encourage explorers. Explorers and achivers bounce off each other well in this sort of game, you see.

 

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

I get it, you want to make every single frame a caster frame but thats just not going to happen. Not every ability that does dmg must be able to clear the game. If you are so hell bent on the description part than ask DE to change that. You may have more luck with that.

I'm aware that this hypothetical version of me that wants to make every frame into a caster is much easier to argue against, but unfortunately that's what's known as a 'straw man' argument, and it's generally considered to be poor form.

[4thBro]

46 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I love that! 

(But if you were posting it as a serious rebuttal, it's not a great one.  Yes, sampling bias is an issue, but the existence of the phenomenon isn't evidence of bias in an actual survey, or what direction the hypothetical bias is going, or to what degree.)

What's funny is that the image actually 100% fits my explanation that players who quit this game because of a lack of endgame won't actually be here to express their thoughts on it.

26 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Dear 4thbro. We all here have seen your attempts at personnal attack towards me because my presence threaten your existence and your lies

Pointing out fallacies is not a personal attack.

Please explain why you think that it is.

[MrInubis]

3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Mesa's augment isn't the same thing. You're arguing that the primary function of Volt's 1 is in the augment

Doesnt matter one bit. If de wanted to give free power we wouldnt have augments in the first place.

 

6 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I'm aware that this hypothetical version of me that wants to make every frame into a caster is much easier to argue against, but unfortunately that's what's known as a 'straw man' argument, and it's generally considered to be poor form.

You want to kill with abilities on any given level of gameplay. That role is specific for caster frames and nothing else. 

 

I wont comment on the other points since its just your opinion or wishfull thinking. The game you want is in direct opposisition what DE wants. I also prefer diversity between warframes and them having specific role. Not all abilities that do dmg should be clearing the game, they dont even have to be viable option. Just because you want it doesnt mean it should be. For me such game would be boring. Every frame would feel the same. With every rework they promote weapon gameplay. Just look at Inaros or Hydroid. You will see Caliban as well. He wont be ability sparing killing machine. That should prove you what DE intends right?

[4thBro]

2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Not all abilities that do dmg should be clearing the game, they dont even have to be viable option. Just because you want it doesnt mean it should be

Bro, I've been hard-skimming his posts, and even i know that this is a straw man. He didn't say that he wants that.

You're having a DIRECT conversation with him, and you're gonna pull that???

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

If any weapon could kill everything easily then why would you ever use an ability?

But they mostly dont, they do in tandem with abilities.

 

43 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

What a copout. Ok, so then they should just give every Frame the Ember heirloom skin, because it will sell the Frame.

They literally do give skins. Deluxe is the main route, many will get heirloom in time

Edited August 30 by kuciol

[4thBro]

Just now, kuciol said:

They literally do give skins. Deluxe is the main route, many will get heirloom in time

I didn't say give every Frame an heirloom skin.

I said give every Frame the Ember heirloom skin. Why not? It sells. And you directly said that a Frame's purpose is to sell, rather than to be thematic and flavorful.

[MrInubis]

Just now, 4thBro said:

I didn't say give every Frame an heirloom skin.

I said give every Frame the Ember heirloom skin. Why not? It sells. And you directly said that a Frame's purpose is to sell, rather than to be thematic and flavorful.

Yeah im just gonna ignore you, you bring nothing to the conversation mr attention wh...e

[Tiltskillet]

58 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

It just that claiming that the average players time is 1500h, because a survey of 1700 players (that do survey, you know) made me laugh a bit. I don't know how many single players Warframe had since launch, but it is much, much more, and we all know it. And most of them didn't play that long. Of course, I don't have any evidence of it, but i'm trying to be realistic.

Sure, skepticism is absolutely necessary.  I just try to remember that surveys of 1700 people and surveys of one person (i.e, oneself.) both require it.

[Loza03]

13 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Doesnt matter one bit. If de wanted to give free power we wouldnt have augments in the first place.

So what I'm taking from this is that trying to argue that Shock's Augment is it's core purpose has become so absurd and unsustainable you want an out from it.

 

14 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You want to kill with abilities on any given level of gameplay. That role is specific for caster frames and nothing else. 

Ok, so what is a 'caster frame'?

What's the difference between a 'caster frame' and any other Warframe that has abilities they can cast? Where's that written down? Does a frame who's abilities could kill in end-game content previously, but can't now due to the progression of enemy power creep change somehow? 

And if there is no difference between a 'caster frame' and not, why should abilities that can reasonably be assumed to be intended to do damage (A good example not mentioned as yet would be Styanax's 1, where the guy literally hucks a spear at a fool) not do meaningful damage at higher levels?

 

18 minutes ago, kuciol said:

I wont comment on the other points since its just your opinion or wishfull thinking. The game you want is in direct opposisition what DE wants. I also prefer diversity between warframes and them having specific role. Not all abilities that do dmg should be clearing the game, they dont even have to be viable option. Just because you want it doesnt mean it should be. For me such game would be boring. Every frame would feel the same. With every rework they promote weapon gameplay. Just look at Inaros or Hydroid. You will see Caliban as well. He wont be ability sparing killing machine. That should prove you what DE intends right?

Hey do you mind quoting me where I said that's what I want? You've said this a bunch of times now, and you're super confident about it, so clearly I must have written this down somewhere. 

[MrInubis]

10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

What's the difference between a 'caster frame' and any other Warframe that has abilities they can cast?

One mainly uses abilities to complete things, the other mainly uses weapons. Its very simple. 

 

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

So what I'm taking from this is that trying to argue that Shock's Augment is it's core purpose has become so absurd and unsustainable you want an out from it.

So you take it wrong. Augment just makes ability usefull later on. DE clearly doesnt want it to be dps ability. They would just give it better scaling instead of making augment. The intentions are very clear if you ask me. Its also a starter frame, that ability has its uses very early on when access to more diverse loadout is limited.

For the quoting you will have to wait. Its kinda ass to do that on phone.

[NeDesitVirtus]

Warframe is only held back by how easy players want it to be as opposed to embracing challenge. Anything that interferes with big red numbers dopamine rush and instant extraction tends to fuel a cacophony of sobbing and complaining until it's made easier by DE. 

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, kuciol said:

One mainly uses abilities to complete things, the other mainly uses weapons. Its very simple. 

Ok. So why shouldn't players be allowed to mod frames that evidently have the potential into being caster frames, provided balancing measures were put in place to not make abilities dominant overall? Not all frame's are suitable - there's some where it's clearly more one than the other (Inaros and Chroma are definitely more leaning to the weapons platform, and Dante and Jade toward Abilitie), but there's also plenty which could be built more towards being caster focused and others more towards weapon focused. And those that could be built in a battlemage, gish, magus - whatever term you want to use for a 'bit of both'.

14 minutes ago, kuciol said:

So you take it wrong. Augment just makes ability usefull later on. DE clearly doesnt want it to be dps ability. They would just give it better scaling instead of making augment. The intentions are very clear if you ask me. Its also a starter frame, that ability has its uses very early on when access to more diverse loadout is limited.

Then why is literally the first thing you do when you start as Volt using it as DPS ability?

And DE have also made the intention to have Warframes be mostly horizontal to each other in terms of power clear too, much more so than with weapons, so Volt's kit is clearly intended to be at the base level of usefulness unaugmented as other kits.

[4thBro]

45 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Yeah im just gonna ignore you, you bring nothing to the conversation mr attention wh...e

-Yeah so anyway, we're gonna just skip the part where you try to get out of jury duty.

 

  

17 hours ago, kuciol said:

Calibans 4 main purpose is armor strip, dmg is the secondary effect. Volts 1 can be changed to weapon buff. Both are meant to enchance weapon gameplay. Those abilities do not stop being usefull ever because they have the secondary effects.

The main purpose for US, THE PLAYERS, is the armor strip, and the augments, and the secondary effects, and blah blah blah.

But that is a METAGAME point. (Funny, because that's the actual proper usage of that term. The same term that you demonize, because you don't understand what it means.)

 

Those effects that WE THE PLAYERS deem useful are only seen that way because they have scaling effects with the rest of our kits (namely, our arsenal). However, those are CHERRY-PICKED examples.

 

Mirage's 4, her ULTIMATE ABILITY, is nothing but damage. It can detonate and blind enemies, but is possibly one of the most inefficient ways to CC enemies that I can possibly imagine.

Isn't Ash's 4 also completely and entirely about damage, with zero utility at all? And I'm pretty sure one of you recently posted something like "MY ASH SAYS HELLO" in another thread???

 

 

Well, damn, would ya look at that. RIGHT on the nose! It was YOU, of literally ALL people that it could have possibly been.

 

7 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Then why oh why is Calibans 4 a trio of laser beams followed by a bomb going off.

 

7 hours ago, kuciol said:

Because it looks cool

But if the PURPOSE was to STRIP ARMOR, then SURELY... it would be, sayyyyyyy, I dunnooooooo, something like an acid spray ability??? I dunno, something that makes sense if armor stripping was the entire purpose???

 

3 hours ago, kuciol said:

The core design is to "sell" the frame, to make you want to take him. Thats literaly it. Why do you think abilities have visuals in the first place? To look cool. For that WoooooW factor. Nothing more.

 

So, no. The core design isn't "to sell itself by using big flashy lights."

The core design is this:

 

 

That's his core design.

The flavor.

And then they decide on the effects. And, hey, sometimes that means damage is in mind. Sometimes, even, damage is PRIMARILY what's in mind.

 

However, going off about how some abilities are more or less useful than others, or deal more or less damage than others, is completely off the topic of what the intended design is.

Whether it's because this company doesn't play their own game and doesn't realize that 100% armor strip with 0 damage is infinitely better than 0 armor strip and 20,000 damage... or because different people, or different teams, were in charge of different Frame designs... or WHATEVER the reasons may be.

But you have been constantly saying "that's not the intended design" WHENEVER it fits your argument, when you have, in fact, not only showed a total disconnect of what DE's actual intentions are with Frame designs, but have told us that you think DOLLARS are the sole purpose of any Frame whatsoever. (Which is akin to saying, "Ice cream isn't supposed to be yummy, it's supposed to make profits!" Aka, totally useless thing to say.)

 

 

 

 

You argue so god damn disingenuously, while also constantly trying to "ignore me" when I come in to hold you accountable. It's completely wild. But you're in so deep, you think you have to double down each time.

So we're just gonna skip the part where you try to dodge your responsibilities that you have created for yourself.

I know I can't force you, but: You need to answer to this. Not to mention, the billions of other things from everyone that you keep dodging.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

On 2024-08-02 at 2:04 PM, Kaiga said:

I watched an ad for warframe today.

It showed a rhino battling up the stairs in a tusk plains base, jumping, hitting shots, taking cover, using abilities, finishing enemies, and generally being a space bada$$ in every sense of the word.

Well heck I'd play that game. 

But actual in game warframe?

Slam kong thermal sunder, 24/7. Aoe explosions fill the map. 

There is no threat to the survival of the player, no reason to even remember what the enemies do or even look like, as they're obliterated in seconds by nukes.

Why do any of that cool space ninja stuff from the ad when you can just shoot a rocket launcher at everything?

If this game had even a modicum of difficulty at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

When you see an ad for a nice fat juicy burger, when you order one is it like the picture? Your post is laden in ignorance. Do you really not understand real life at this point. Muh "truth in advertising"... I get it and agree it should reflect what you buy.

However, not only is your post a  narrow minded view but you miss an entire other side of the equation, the DE side. Run for cover? Enemy(ies) will spawn directly on top of you as they do all the time in game. Add some nully-bubbles and no more abilities for you! Say bye-bye to cool space ninja and kong gets zombified by enemies.

I like the game as it is. It has its problems but it's fine. I view the ad related more to fantasy rather than actual game play. Think of hollywood and all the female movie leads that weigh 120lbs beating up +200lb jacked dudes. Do you ask for your money back? That's not reality either but it is billion dollar biz

On 2024-08-02 at 3:40 PM, Zahnrad said:

Whether you like them or hate (jade eximus), I think we can all agree it is something that changes gameplay and that's why a lot of people didn't like it.

For me I didn't like them originally because I was getting a laser every 5 seconds in SP after some time. The extreme frequency was beyond annoying. It became "Jade Hunt" not WF. Now it seems better. JEs pop up here and there and the frequency is not ruining the game

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, Loza03 a dit :

First: I have no issues towards women. I have issues towards most games that decide to have all their female characters who are hardened mercenaries in a warzone suspiciously be 20-somethings with flawless skin, hourglass figures, and wearing bikinis. It's cheap fanservice that suggests that the creators (or more likely, the executives) value cheap appeal over artistic integrity. It's also generally distracting more than it is arousing anyway. Playing as male character doesn't alleviate the core issues here. 

Secondly, I've heard concerns regarding the game's publisher in terms of their monetisation and business practices. For example, quietly changing drop chances, shutting down games only a few years after release should they underperform in any way as well as a substantiated rumor that they edit their own wikipedia articles to change their image. I don't trust this company one bit.

Finally, I have limited play time and money, and I'm satisfied with Warframe in many key ways, and TFD doesn't seem to provide the hypermobility fix that's a big part of my enjoyment of Warframe, so with that in mind, I'm not interested in engaging with a game that offers a similar but less complete experience compared to Warframe, as opposed to still playing Warframe or other games that provide a substantially different experience. Monster Hunter, for example.

Aesthetic can be dismissed, it's not worst than saryn or wisp, just more human, and you can play male character as everything is balanced. And you can play a game for the stats and the feeling (TTK, challenge). None of the reputation/micro transaction hinder your ability to play the game. And all others speculations about drops changes are just speculations. You don't know how good is mobility. It's actually balanced and allows for relevant gameplay. You'd rather play a completely different game like MH while wishing Warframe would be different, but actually, your wish is exactly like TFD. And it's completely free. I mean, you spent more time in this topic than the time you'd need to see all your ideas come to life.

[4thBro]

On 2024-08-30 at 10:41 PM, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

When you see an ad for a nice fat juicy burger, when you order one is it like the picture? Your post is laden in ignorance. Do you really not understand real life at this point. Muh "truth in advertising"... I get it and agree it should reflect what you buy.

However, not only is your post a  narrow minded view but you miss an entire other side of the equation, the DE side. Run for cover? Enemy(ies) will spawn directly on top of you as they do all the time in game. Add some nully-bubbles and no more abilities for you! Say bye-bye to cool space ninja and kong gets zombified by enemies.

I like the game as it is. It has its problems but it's fine. I view the ad related more to fantasy rather than actual game play. Think of hollywood and all the female movie leads that weigh 120lbs beating up +200lb jacked dudes. Do you ask for your money back? That's not reality either but it is billion dollar biz

For me I didn't like them originally because I was getting a laser every 5 seconds in SP after some time. The extreme frequency was beyond annoying. It became "Jade Hunt" not WF. Now it seems better. JEs pop up here and there and the frequency is not ruining the game

We still order the stale-breaded burger because we still like it. But we would still rather it be that big juicy burger as seen in the advertisement.

Just because we want WF to be better doesn't mean that we don't like it at all. In fact, it's BECAUSE we have a passion for the game that brings us to its forums in the first place. I don't know why people are trying to be all South Park, "if you don't like it, you can GET OUT!"

 

As for cover, and enemies spawning behind you all the time, that's only some mission types. Others have finite enemies. Seems like a point that's not worth spending time on.

 

On 2024-08-30 at 10:48 PM, dwqrf said:

Aesthetic can be dismissed, it's not worst than saryn or wisp, just more human, and you can play male character as everything is balanced. And you can play a game for the stats and the feeling (TTK, challenge). None of the reputation/micro transaction hinder your ability to play the game. And all others speculations about drops changes are just speculations. You don't know how good is mobility. It's actually balanced and allows for relevant gameplay. You'd rather play a completely different game like MH while wishing Warframe would be different, but actually, your wish is exactly like TFD. And it's completely free. I mean, you spent more time in this topic than the time you'd need to see all your ideas come to life.

Oh, NOW you're a big fan of speculation vs provable??

Your entire reason for not wanting an endgame is based on SPECULATION about how it MAY end up negatively effecting you.

[Loza03]

34 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Aesthetic can be dismissed, it's not worst than saryn or wisp, just more human, and you can play male character as everything is balanced. And you can play a game for the stats and the feeling (TTK, challenge). None of the reputation/micro transaction hinder your ability to play the game. And all others speculations about drops changes are just speculations. You don't know how good is mobility. It's actually balanced and allows for relevant gameplay. You'd rather play a completely different game like MH while wishing Warframe would be different, but actually, your wish is exactly like TFD. And it's completely free. I mean, you spent more time in this topic than the time you'd need to see all your ideas come to life.

You know, the more you try to shill this game the less I want to play it, and the more I suspect you do not, in fact, have compelling reasons to suggest why the way things are is good.

[dwqrf]

il y a 13 minutes, Loza03 a dit :

You know, the more you try to shill this game the less I want to play it, and the more I suspect you do not, in fact, have compelling reasons to suggest why the way things are is good.

I know that. But this game has everything you advocate for. Everything, stats/wise, cd, balance. It's a perfect Warframe clone towards formas/catalyst/crafting/modding, but has just the difference you keep talking about. I played it 200h, and every point you are trying to make in this topic just makes me think of it and of how I didn't like it (after 150h of a great experience). 

You have to understand that everytime you say "Warframe should be this or that", I can say "ho yeah, like TFD", but you don't have the reference ; "Just because".

It's like if this topic was about how to improve checker, and you would argue that checker need horses, pawn, tower, king, and queen, and i'd say "ho yeah like chess" and you'd say "ho yeah, I don't like the color or the chess board so no I won't play chess, but we should change checkers". 

Edited August 30 by dwqrf

[4thBro]

8 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

It's like if this topic was about how to improve checker, and you would argue that checker need horses, pawn, tower, king, and queen, and i'd say "ho yeah like chess" and you'd say "ho yeah, I don't like the color or the chess board so no I won't play chess, but we should change checkers". 

Actually:

 

This topic is like if somebody said, "I would like a color blind mode for WF."

And then you come in with, "I'm not color blind, so I don't think DE should add it."

[Loza03]

5 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I know that. But this game has everything you advocate for. Everything, stats/wise, cd, balance. It's a perfect Warframe clone towards formas/catalyst/crafting/modding, but has just the difference you keep talking about. I played it 200h, and every point you are trying to make in this topic just makes me think of it and of how I didn't like it (after 150h of a great experience). 

You have to understand that everytime you say "Warframe should be this or that", I can say "ho yeah, like TFD", but you don't have the reference ; "Just because".

It's like if this topic was about how to improve checker, and you would argue that checker need horses, pawn, tower, king, and queen, and i'd say "ho yeah like chess" and you'd say "ho yeah, I don't like the color or the chess board so no I won't play chess, but we should change checkers". 

I am not interested in playing the First Descendents. Stop shilling the damn game. It's really getting on my nerves.