Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

It's really not. If you're looking for challenge, play something else. The game has done nothing but grow these past 10 years. Difficulty isn't an issue, ans they're not gonna crank it up.

Edited August 6 by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario

[4thBro]

34 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

It's really not. If you're looking for challenge, play something else. The game has done nothing but grow these past 10 years. Difficulty isn't an issue, ans they're not gonna crank it up

If you're going to gatekeep somebody else's suggestions under the reasoning that "the game has been growing and surely must be doing it right," then i hope to god that you have zero complaints or suggestions about WF yourself, or else... you... just might be...

... a HYPOCRITE!!!!

🤪

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

We can do whatever we want. But no part of that implies contradiction. No part of that implies nerfing everything into the ground.

That's how you're strawmanning. Nothing implies these things. But they sure are easy to disagree with and argue against, aren't they?

Please point out where I said "nerfing everything into the ground".  Please, provide a quote where I said that.

I merely said "and limit some builds...."

So please point out where I said that it had to be "nerfing everything into the ground".

Because it sure seems like you can't practice what you preach and are strawmanning and twisting what I am saying to fit your narrative because it's easier to disagree with.

What I said (and you even quoted) was this:

3 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

-To be encouraged to bring the absolute best of the best gear and not limit your arsenal at all.....and at the same time somehow limit said "best of the best gear" so that you can't do absurd things and break the challenge so that it provides zero challenge at all (For example Invisibility, or Revenant, or just shield gate abuse, or any number of other abuses that would be possible depending on failure conditions/the lack thereof)

I said your idea included the point that it "not limit your arsenal at all" because I read through your other topic and found this post:

On 2024-07-26 at 5:44 PM, 4thBro said:

Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is not what I'm asking for. That place does not have strong enemies, it does not have Frame specific leaderboards, AND it punishes you for using your abilities.

You put that emphasis there, so you don't want the game to limit your abilities like ESO does....and yet your solution is "Hey, lets limit abilities by adding CDs and other things that prevent ability spam that breaks difficulty like a bundle of dry spaghetti"

There is an inherent contradiction between your points you rise (sure it's in another thread....but you're the one who directed people to read that thread and told them to read it to figure out what you want).
You don't want to be limited by the game...but when pushed you want limits on what you can do with the game so that it preserves your mythical difficulty and challenge!

 

So either there is a contradiction.
You can't both want to use your entire arsenal and all abilities with absolutely no limit on them and then also be OK with:

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

Maybe inflict a cooldown.

As actions like that is exactly what ESO does, which you say you don't want because it "punishes you for using your abilities"

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

Again, you're leaning on this weird and false belief that, because I don't have a 50 page essay and the game coding prepared on a USB drive, I have no valid idea.

It's just fallacy after fallacy. It's exhausting.

So anything you disagree with and can't argue is a fallacy?

I am not asking for a "50 page essay", please point to where I'm asking for that.

I just want a single coherent list of what you want, which also clears up contradictions that you have made, such as the above I pointed out.

I don't need a massively detailed and exhaustive document, I just want a simple actual definition that isn't just vague gesturing, because right now you can hide behind all of the "But that's not what I meant" and "You can use your imagination...." instead of actually defending a solid idea.

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

GRifts had rewards, but this is another fallacy: Red herring. It's an irrelevant thing to bring up.

How is it irrelevant?  Because you say so?  And by whose authority do you declare it irrelevant?

Maybe there is a reason that GRifts and the like had rewards...and maybe you should consider that before going "We don't need rewards because!!!!!!!!"

Edited August 6 by Tsukinoki

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, Tsukinoki said:

You put that emphasis there, so you don't want the game to limit your abilities like ESO does....and yet your solution is "Hey, lets limit abilities by adding CDs and other things that prevent ability spam that breaks difficulty like a bundle of dry spaghetti"

CD's to stealth was a suggestion. It was also my SECOND suggestion, which you just cherry-picked (another fallacy), skipping right past my FIRST suggestion of having "detector enemies" that you could focus down first. (Maybe akin to the arbie drones.)

2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please point out where I said "nerfing everything into the ground".  Please, provide a quote where I said that.

I merely said "and limit some builds...."

So please point out where I said that it had to be "nerfing everything into the ground".

This feels like semantics. You may not have said the exact words "nerf into the ground," but is that what we're doing now? Semantics?

 

You're right though, I'll give you that. In a way, that could be considered strawmanning. However, you certainly were implying that I wanted to do the extreme. I'm on lunch break right now. Perhaps when I get off work, I'll put in the effort to address this semantics argument by showing exactly what you've been saying that made me decide to paraphrase with "nerf into the ground"...

 

5 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

You don't want to be limited by the game...but when pushed you want limits on what you can do with the game so that it preserves your mythical difficulty and challenge!

This is crazy... This falls in the same department as you wanting that 50 page essay on every detail.

 

THIS IS A SUGGESTION.

 

Do you understand what that means?

What that means is that nothing is set in stone. That means I'm allowed to go back and modify that suggestion, ANY time I want.

Did I say "no limits"? Yeah, probably. I think what I actually said was that I don't want my loadout to be randomized, which is a drastically different statement, but THAT'S FINE, I'll willingly give you the words that you put in my mouth.

But then upon someone bringing up invisibility, YES, clearly that would need some sort of countermeasure.

Clearly.

This doesn't mean I contradicted myself. Again, stop trying to win a battle. All that means is that somebody brought up a good point about something that would break the game mode, and so, naturally, we want to address it. WOW, WHAT A CONCEPT!

 

You guys are...

 

... You guys are just not discussing any of this genuinely.

 

You won't admit it, and you'll flail about with more fallacies to bury this statement.

But it's just... blatantly true...

You're just being completely disingenuous with every post. Only trying to win.

[4thBro]

18 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

So anything you disagree with and can't argue is a fallacy?

I am not asking for a "50 page essay", please point to where I'm asking for that.

THIS IS SO EXHAUSTING!

 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

you need to write up a design document with use cases and present that to DE.

 

And, before you can say it -- YES. I know this wasn't YOU specifically that said this.

But, frankly, I don't give a damn. You're all grinding against each other with that Like button like it means something, well there you go. It does mean something. It means you can share some accountability.

 

  Edit for your edit:

17 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

How is it irrelevant?  Because you say so?  And by whose authority do you declare it irrelevant?

Maybe keep reading the post. I address this question RIGHT after what you quoted.

 

Nice cherry-picking, though. It really makes it look like you said some clever words, when you exclude the rest of what I said! Good job!

Edited August 6 by 4thBro

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

39 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

If you're going to gatekeep somebody else's suggestions under the reasoning that "the game has been growing and surely must be doing it right," then i hope to god that you have zero complaints or suggestions about WF yourself, or else... you... just might be...

... a HYPOCRITE!!!!

🤪

hYpOcRiTe

Edited August 6 by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario

[4thBro]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Not gatekeeping, project harder.

Not gatekeeping, project h--

What?????

 

^ I literally said that out loud. Do you know what projecting means??? Or is it a fancy new buzzword you just learned about???

If I'm projecting, that means I'M gatekeeping.

 

Now...

Please...

*takes in a deep breath*

 

Please tell me what I'm gatekeeping.

Tell me what I'm gatekeeping and I'll wire you $10,000.

 

The next thing you say, anywhere, whether on these forums or speaking with your mouth in real life, needs to be the answer to this question. Or else you may never communicate with human beings ever again.

 

What am I gatekeeping here?

 

 

 

 

Hahahahaha!! Nice bait & switch, but I was too quick in quoting you.

I'd say "too bad I didn't quote the entire post," but let's be honest. The rest of that post was more fluff anyway.

Edited August 6 by 4thBro

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

1 minute ago, 4thBro said:

Not gatekeeping, project h--

What?????

 

^ I literally said that out loud. Do you know what projecting means??? Or is it a fancy new buzzword you just learned about???

If I'm projecting, that means I'M gatekeeping.

 

Now...

Please...

*takes in a deep breath*

 

Please tell me what I'm gatekeeping.

Tell me what I'm gatekeeping and I'll wire you $10,000.

 

The next thing you say, anywhere, whether on these forums or speaking with your mouth in real life, needs to be the answer to this question. Or else you may never communicate with human beings ever again.

 

What am I gatekeeping here?

You're doing exactly what you claim others are doing lol. You're not here to have an actual conversation, you want an argument. Luckily ik how to fix that.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

29 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please point out where I said "nerfing everything into the ground".  Please, provide a quote where I said that.

I merely said "and limit some builds...."

So please point out where I said that it had to be "nerfing everything into the ground".

Because it sure seems like you can't practice what you preach and are strawmanning and twisting what I am saying to fit your narrative because it's easier to disagree with.

What I said (and you even quoted) was this:

I said your idea included the point that it "not limit your arsenal at all" because I read through your other topic and found this post:

You put that emphasis there, so you don't want the game to limit your abilities like ESO does....and yet your solution is "Hey, lets limit abilities by adding CDs and other things that prevent ability spam that breaks difficulty like a bundle of dry spaghetti"

There is an inherent contradiction between your points you rise (sure it's in another thread....but you're the one who directed people to read that thread and told them to read it to figure out what you want).
You don't want to be limited by the game...but when pushed you want limits on what you can do with the game so that it preserves your mythical difficulty and challenge!

 

So either there is a contradiction.
You can't both want to use your entire arsenal and all abilities with absolutely no limit on them and then also be OK with:

As actions like that is exactly what ESO does, which you say you don't want because it "punishes you for using your abilities"

So anything you disagree with and can't argue is a fallacy?

I am not asking for a "50 page essay", please point to where I'm asking for that.

I just want a single coherent list of what you want, which also clears up contradictions that you have made, such as the above I pointed out.

I don't need a massively detailed and exhaustive document, I just want a simple actual definition that isn't just vague gesturing, because right now you can hide behind all of the "But that's not what I meant" and "You can use your imagination...." instead of actually defending a solid idea.

How is it irrelevant?  Because you say so?  And by whose authority do you declare it irrelevant?

Maybe there is a reason that GRifts and the like had rewards...and maybe you should consider that before going "We don't need rewards because!!!!!!!!"

Don't bother. He knows what he's doing. He's not actually here to discuss, he's here to troll and infuriate. Just ignore him.

[4thBro]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

You're doing exactly what you claim others are doing lol. You're not here to have an actual conversation, you want an argument. Luckily ik how to fix that.

Nah, you don't get to say I'm projecting, and then back out of explaining how.

 

Nah.

Nah, you don't get to do that, buddy. I don't care what fancy words you use to dodge accountability. I'm sure you are very well-practiced. We're gonna remain focused here.

 

You said I'm projecting my own gatekeeping.

Now you get to explain what I'm gatekeeping.

6 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

The next thing you say, anywhere, whether on these forums or speaking with your mouth in real life, needs to be the answer to this question. Or else you may never communicate with human beings ever again.

 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

4 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Nah, you don't get to say I'm projecting, and then back out of explain how.

Except I did, cry about it hypocrite. Ironic that the word fits you way more than anyone else in this thread and you're so far up your own *** you cant see it lmao.

Edited August 6 by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario

[MrDugan]

On 2024-08-02 at 3:04 PM, Kaiga said:

Slam kong thermal sunder, 24/7. Aoe explosions fill the map. 

What is this nonsense I keep seeing people whine about?  I went on a break for a while after the Dante nerfs, and I apparently missed the boat on whatever "slam wukong" is.  I have never seen anyone in-game doing anything that would appear to be whatever this is.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

1 minute ago, MrDugan said:

What is this nonsense I keep seeing people whine about?  I went on a break for a while after the Dante nerfs, and I apparently missed the boat on whatever "slam wukong" is.  I have never seen anyone in-game doing anything that would appear to be whatever this is.

This is the first time I'm hearing about Slam wukong myself.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 17 minutos, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario dijo:

Don't bother. He knows what he's doing. He's not actually here to discuss, he's here to troll and infuriate. Just ignore him.

That the thing, this type of post are for that, in the first place. You think some one that can think and see the game gonna make a post like this?

Edit: Just trolls or idi*ts.

Edited August 6 by CosoMalvadoNG

[MrDugan]

Just now, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

This is the first time I'm hearing about Slam wukong myself.

On the warframe subreddit there was a post that got meme'd to hell and back where they complained about wukong specifically needing to be removed from the game, and called out this "slam wukong" thing.  I can't figure out what the build could possibly be that would be so broken.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

5 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

On the warframe subreddit there was a post that got meme'd to hell and back where they complained about wukong specifically needing to be removed from the game, and called out this "slam wukong" thing.  I can't figure out what the build could possibly be that would be so broken.

Yeah I can't either. I know Wukong is decent at fissures because of his speed, but that's about it. Not many people are playing Wukong as it is, which makes that complaint even weirder. 

11 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

That the thing, this type of post are for that, in the first place. You think some one that can think and see the game gonna make a post like this?

Edit: Just trolls or idi*ts.

You right. I should have expected it with the way he kept putting words in people's mouths.

Edited August 6 by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

You're doing exactly what you claim others are doing lol. You're not here to have an actual conversation, you want an argument. Luckily ik how to fix that.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Don't bother. He knows what he's doing. He's not actually here to discuss, he's here to troll and infuriate. Just ignore him.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Except I did, cry about it hypocrite. Ironic that the word fits you way more than anyone else in this thread and you're so far up your own *** you cant see it lmao.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

This is the first time I'm hearing about Slam wukong myself

 

54 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Yeah I can't either. I know Wukong is decent at fissures because of his speed, but that's about it. Not many people are playing Wukong as it is, which makes that complaint even weirder

 

54 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

You right. I should have expected it with the way he kept putting words in people's mouths

There it is. I've quoted all your posts. Now please tell me which one of these is explaining to me how I'm gatekeeping. Because I've read them, and I see no mention of it.

 

... But with that last quote, I'm wondering if you're trying to back out of your pre-edit post by pretending you didn't actually say it, and that I "put words in your mouth".

 

This is so wild to see this unfold in real time. When it's past tense, it's easy to think, "Nah, there's no way it actually happened like that."

But seeing it in present tense? It really is mind blowing to see people mentally squirm in their own hysteria and delusion.

 

 

Edit:

I'm not trying to argue with anyone. But my initial frustration came when people started saying No to an idea simply because they wouldn't play it. To actually vote against putting a long-requested thing into the game, simply because YOU don't want it, is so shamelessly self-centered, that i can't really just ignore it.

 

And right now, I'm trying to hold someone accountable for what they have said about me. I also can't just ignore that.

 

So... none of this current state was my intention. But I'm never one to just sit back and watch people say ridiculous things and get away with it.

Edited August 6 by 4thBro

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Let him win so he can shut up please.
 

Spoiler

The funny thing is that the status quo is not going to change!

Cheer!

[PrideB4TheFall]

INTRODUCING: WARFRAME HARDCORE!

Do you want to be made to look like Vor's B*T*H?

Do you want 1 credit per mission?

Do you want to defeat enemies only by getting head shots?

• We've stripped away all critical hits.
• Obliterated all status effects.
• All Enemies regardless of node have max cap armor.
• We've removed all parkour...

_______________________________________________

If you are the demanding, professional WF player...

YOU

MUST

PLAY...

WARFRAME HARDCORE!!!

________________________________________________

 

Edited August 7 by PrideB4TheFall

[4thBro]

18 minutes ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

INTRODUCING: WARFRAME HARDCORE!

Do you want to be made to look like Vor's *@##$?

Do you want 1 credit per mission?

Do you want to defeat enemies only by getting head shots?

• We've stripped away all critical hits.
• Obliterated all status effects.
• All Enemies regardless of node have max cap armor.
• We've removed all parkour...

_______________________________________________

If you are the demanding, professional WF player...

YOU

MUST

PLAY...

WARFRAME HARDCORE!!!

________________________________________________

 

Now is it my turn to make an equally sarcastic post advertising enemies that die in one hit, have no weapons equipped, and periodically trip like in Smash Bros?

[RichardKam]

6小时前 , CosoMalvadoNG 说:

That the thing, this type of post are for that, in the first place. You think some one that can think and see the game gonna make a post like this?

Edit: Just trolls or idi*ts.

Trolls or not, I think everyone can still get something out of this orokin forsaken thread.

Whenever people talk about "lack of challenge", and when being asked "what are you looking for", most of them would just evade the question and give something vague.

And then when someone finally gives specific on what they considered "challenging", turns out it is like this, a worse ESO with no rewards that is both not challenging and not fun, and somehow they thought it is the best idea that will save Warframe for eternity.

What I learn from all these nonsense is that, when people talk about "lack of challenge", most of the time they don't know what they are talking about, and cannot properly formulate what they wanted.

[Atomic_Noodles]

I already said there is already Dragon Keys if you want to further lower your stats. There are also Flawed Mods which can only go up so high, And then there is also Steel Path if you want the game to be harder. If you're still beating Level Cap enemies with those mods,keys, Non-Tauforged Shards,etc. well then congratulations, You've won the game. If anything I guess the only complaint I honestly see worth it in this big thread is DE not adding "Steel Path" to all game modes.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

let him win xD for good sake!

Edited August 7 by CosoMalvadoNG

[4thBro]

6 hours ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

I already said there is already Dragon Keys if you want to further lower your stats. There are also Flawed Mods which can only go up so high, And then there is also Steel Path if you want the game to be harder. If you're still beating Level Cap enemies with those mods,keys, Non-Tauforged Shards,etc. well then congratulations, You've won the game. If anything I guess the only complaint I honestly see worth it in this big thread is DE not adding "Steel Path" to all game modes.

I've been wanting Steel Path Arbitrations for a while.

But at this point, if it's just enemies starting at 150 or something like that, and still taking 8 hours to hit level cap, then it would be too little too late.

 

I understand what you're saying about limiting oneself to then be challenged in an otherwise-easy mission. But the problem with that is... at least half of Warframe's gameplay is done in the Arsenal. Planning out builds is an entire part of the game in itself. If we're just running around WITHOUT builds, as a means of making enemies more difficult, that takes out the entire part of the game that people even want the level capped enemies for in the first place. Do you understand what I'm saying with this?

 

10 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Trolls or not, I think everyone can still get something out of this orokin forsaken thread.

Whenever people talk about "lack of challenge", and when being asked "what are you looking for", most of them would just evade the question and give something vague.

And then when someone finally gives specific on what they considered "challenging", turns out it is like this, a worse ESO with no rewards that is both not challenging and not fun, and somehow they thought it is the best idea that will save Warframe for eternity.

What I learn from all these nonsense is that, when people talk about "lack of challenge", most of the time they don't know what they are talking about, and cannot properly formulate what they wanted.

 

3 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

let him win xD for good sake!

It's still crazy that you think you're the good guys here, lol.

 

We even had a guy flame me, then edit out his post, and you guys are totally okay with him doing that. You aren't trying to hold him accountable for his actions or anything.

But if I sit here and try to explain my ideas, you throw fallacies at me, intentionally mispresent me, intentionally misread my posts, and then say that I have no idea what I want, even though I've explained it a million times???

You tell me that I need to "write up a design document with use cases and present that to DE," or else I'm just a bumbling idiot that has no idea what he wants or how to articulate it??? Let me ask, could YOU do the same thing for anything YOU have ever desired for the game???

Of course not. But this isn't about looking at you, is it? This is about focusing the fallacies on me. Of course. And every post you've put in here has been twisting and squirming to try to make sure all eyes are on me, with whatever misleading pretense you've given it.

 

And then you say I'm the one who's trolling.

Literally any human being that reads this thread can see through your strategies. The people that are agreeing with you are also people using the same strategies, for the same corrupt reasons.

 

The bottom line is that a proper endgame is possibly the most requested thing in Warframe. How many people are you going to keep trying to convince are in the "extreme minority of the playerbase" until you start to think that maybe it's not as much a minority as you think? When will you start translating each person into dollar signs, which suddenly means it would be VERY profitable for DE to work on this?

What will it take for you to stop this gatekeeping crusade?

What even made you start it in the first place??

 

These are questions you need to ask yourself. Not that you will, because you already know the answers, and you keep them buried in the back of your mind. But, still, I'm asking them out loud for you.

[Ventura_Highway]

On 2024-08-05 at 5:56 AM, Kaiga said:

This is basic game design. People play games, particularly games about killing things, to overcome challenges- otherwise the most popular games on steam would be simulators of the biggest button possible to easily kill the greatest number of things possible, since you seem to think the world revolves around casual easy appeal.
But that's not true, is it?

You know, Stardew Valley is sitting in the twelfth spot in Steam's top games. I'll concede the point about killing things, but saying that games are all about overcoming challenges reeks of Soulsborne Syndrome. I don't know about you but my first priority is having fun. That often comes, personally, hand in hand with challenge but why would I pay money for a video game to be challenged when I can just get really sauced and dodge cars on a highway? Is it terrible to have a game where I can relax later in the day?

EDIT: To C.M.A. I'm going to say I'm not encouraging anyone to go play in traffic, but I am simply stating that well, not everyone equates challenge with fun, and it's possible that someone could want challenge one day and then to just relax in the pooled, still-warm blood of dead Grineer the next.

Edited August 7 by Ventura_Highway