Punch through for Kohm

[KEXC4LIBUR]

The question is, should i mod Kohm with punch through mods? It has some innate punch through, also i heard when it's spooled pellets receive greater punch through points, so is there reason to add more punch through or add any other useful mod? 

 

Kohm rules!

Edited August 7 by KEXC4LIBUR

[The_End_Kinda]

51 minutes ago, KEXC4LIBUR said:

The question is, should i mod Kohm with punch through mods? It has some innate punch through, also i heard when it's spooled pellets receive greater punch through points, so is there reason to add more punch through or add any other useful mod? 

 

Kohm rules!

Unless it’s on a riven I’d say no, really wish primed shred was a primary mod not a rifle mod. It might be a fun niche build. You’d need a way to group enemies to take full advantage. Khoras ensare, nidus larva, magnus anomaly arcane, void snare(varazin focus school) are some of the ways you can easily group enemies for punch through fun 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb KEXC4LIBUR:

The question is, should i mod Kohm with punch through mods? It has some innate punch through, also i heard when it's spooled pellets receive greater punch through points, so is there reason to add more punch through or add any other useful mod? 

 

Kohm rules!

it doesn't do anything. because the enemies don't line up. and no.. khom is a rubbish weapon. I have pimped more than 60% of weapons and I wouldn't recommend such rubbish as khom to anyone

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

it doesn't do anything. because the enemies don't line up.

There are plenty of tight hallways / doors / whatnot where enemies can't do anything but line up as they rush towards you.

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

khom is a rubbish weapon. I have pimped more than 60% of weapons and I wouldn't recommend such rubbish as khom to anyone

What was your build, and test case?
FWIW, mine holds up fine on base Steel Path without any (de)buffs from abilities and whatnot.

Did you maybe just not slap a +Fire Rate Mod on it? Because sure, the default Fire Rate doesn't feel great, but with more?
Hot dang, you get a really fun bullet hose crowd shredder, with tons of Slash and whatever other procs you fancy at the moment.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb NinjaZeku:

There are plenty of tight hallways / doors / whatnot where enemies can't do anything but line up as they rush towards you.

What was your build, and test case?
FWIW, mine holds up fine on base Steel Path without any (de)buffs from abilities and whatnot.

Did you maybe just not slap a +Fire Rate Mod on it? Because sure, the default Fire Rate doesn't feel great, but with more?
Hot dang, you get a really fun bullet hose crowd shredder, with tons of Slash and whatever other procs you fancy at the moment.

what you are describing here is a fantasy scenario that only takes place in the parallel universe...

I will definitely waste my time on something like that...

[Tiltskillet]

12 hours ago, KEXC4LIBUR said:

The question is, should i mod Kohm with punch through mods?

I'm a huge fan of punch through, but I wouldn't normally recommend doing so with this weapon.   Not because it's never useful, but because Kohm's innate 1.5m is enough most of the time.  That will hit 3 Bombards which are on the large-ish side.   The more punch through you have, the more likely some of it will be wasted some of the time.  Whereas other mods that could be slotted in its place are useful all the time.   Also the weapon suffers from severe damage reduction and spread at longer ranges, meaning even when you've got lots of targets lined up and the PT to hit them, it won't necessarily be doing much to the ones that are further away.

An exception could be if you're expecting to always group up enemies.  Or if you're killing so fast that extra PT is actually more useful than another mod. 

12 hours ago, KEXC4LIBUR said:

also i heard when it's spooled pellets receive greater punch through points

It's not in the wiki stats.   There's a note in the wiki about "additional pellets have infinite punch through" but I don't have the regular Kohm to test this.  However I do have Kuva Kohm, and it appears to have exactly the same PT unspooled and spooled.  (Interestingly the wiki lists its spooled up PT as 0.  But this is incorrect.)

I'm suspicious that the note is no longer true.  However if it is true, that's all the more reason not to equip  PT.

edit: Looks like Arbitrary tested the regular Kohm and removed that note about infinite punch through in the wiki.   And fixed the 0 PT on the Kuva version.

Edited August 8 by Tiltskillet

[NinjaZeku]

7 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

what you are describing here is a fantasy scenario that only takes place in the parallel universe...

I will definitely waste my time on something like that...

Ah yes, that's a good response, just deny reality if it doesn't fit your opinion.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I would say it depends a bit on a few things. Like what sort of content do you personally enjoy most. For example, I like the Kuva Kohm quite a lot, and I have a few different builds for it, have two Rivens as well. One of my builds, has a Riven with a lot of Punch Through, and I like using that build with Nidus on long Survival missions in the Void. Specifically Relic missions, on Steel Path. Solo. High enemy density, Orokin tile set has a lot of narrow corridors and choke points. I like to lead enemies down them, and just shred them all. Plus with Nidus larvae ability as well, I can kill lots of them clumped up, and past them, down the corridor/hallways. The Punch Through on the Riven is great. Same with using Qorvex in that same situation as well. 

That being said... not all missions have that enemy density, map lay out, tile set architecture, so... Won't always necessarily be as valuable. I also personally like fire rate more on the Kuva Kohm to get its spool up going faster, but, sometimes I also use it with Wisp, who doesn't need to mod for Fire Rate. So thats another example of a mod or weapon attribute where your other choices matter too. 

If you just plan on it being a general weapon with no predetermined plans, or considering other factors, I would say I don't think it needs it. More than that, how do you feel about its fire rate and spool up mechanic? You might prefer a mod that goes with faster fire rate. Going punch though isn't the worst idea ever though either, just its value may depend on where you use it. 

[KEXC4LIBUR]

В 08.08.2024 в 08:38, (PSN)slightconfuzzled сказал:

If you just plan on it being a general weapon with no predetermined plans, or considering other factors, I would say I don't think it needs it. More than that, how do you feel about its fire rate and spool up mechanic? You might prefer a mod that goes with faster fire rate. Going punch though isn't the worst idea ever though either, just its value may depend on where you use it. 

I pretty liked Kohm after once using it in the Duviri. Mostly weapons i use are full auto or hold'n'release or shoot and forget so for me Kohm' spool is pretty interesting mechanic, i like the moment when you stop shooting and then fastly mercy kill elite unite and get back all the ammo by parazon. I prefer to use it in more tight tile sets like Sea Lab or Corpus Spaceship. I often play as Wisp but for her i prefer Fulmin(i like autencity), maybe if I'll get new buddy I'll add Wisp to this formula, right now i think of acquiring Qorvex to add more strength to my Kohm, i already beat Albrecht Laboratories, only issue is I'm running low on plat. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

7 hours ago, KEXC4LIBUR said:

I pretty liked Kohm after once using it in the Duviri. Mostly weapons i use are full auto or hold'n'release or shoot and forget so for me Kohm' spool is pretty interesting mechanic, i like the moment when you stop shooting and then fastly mercy kill elite unite and get back all the ammo by parazon. I prefer to use it in more tight tile sets like Sea Lab or Corpus Spaceship. I often play as Wisp but for her i prefer Fulmin(i like autencity), maybe if I'll get new buddy I'll add Wisp to this formula, right now i think of acquiring Qorvex to add more strength to my Kohm, i already beat Albrecht Laboratories, only issue is I'm running low on plat. 

 

Nice! Duviri can be a great place to try out new weapons. You can probably already understand based on all our posts, that ideally you will eventually want to get the Kuva Kohm. Kohm is good to grab especially for Mastery, but the Kuva Kohm is basically an upgraded and stronger version. You might not be ready for that just yet, but something to bear in mind when it comes to resources and investing in weapons. Kuva Kohm will also come with a Progenitor bonus element, which is nice because it can save you a Mod slot. 

Yeah based on what you say here, you won't really have to Mod for punch through, it will perform quite well. 

Ah yeah Plat, can be hard to come by. The more you play the easier it can get, especially once you start to get spare Prime parts you can sell. 

Good luck and take care! 

[NinjaZeku]

8 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Kuva Kohm is basically an upgraded and stronger version

I actually prefer the base version, not least because of the much harsher falloff %s on the Kuva variant
(you lose 93.75% damage at max falloff range, versus "only" 73.33% on the regular - that's over 4x as much damage left).

The base damage is also 50% lower before the Progenitor bonus gets added, so it's really not even that much stronger,
base Kohm's higher Riven Dispo helps reduce the damage difference, Kuva version empties its magazine faster, ...

Yeah in total DPS potential, the Kuva Kohm wins ultimately, but it's just not a direct upgrade in all regards, is all I want to say lol.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

16 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

I actually prefer the base version, not least because of the much harsher falloff %s on the Kuva variant
(you lose 93.75% damage at max falloff range, versus "only" 73.33% on the regular - that's over 4x as much damage left).

The base damage is also 50% lower before the Progenitor bonus gets added, so it's really not even that much stronger,
base Kohm's higher Riven Dispo helps reduce the damage difference, Kuva version empties its magazine faster, ...

Yeah in total DPS potential, the Kuva Kohm wins ultimately, but it's just not a direct upgrade in all regards, is all I want to say lol.

 

 

Oh that total sense, and a pretty good reason.

Do you find using Galvanised Acceleration helps much? For myself personally that tends to make up a lot, especially given Kuva weapons increased capacity, the Progenitor bonus, how it works, etc, but yeah, I can also see why some people might prefer the original. So all good. 

[Tiltskillet]

5 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

I actually prefer the base version

I've been curious about this for a long time.  And whether a sub-60 Toxin KKohm might beat out a maxed one where bleeds are priority #1.   And #2 through #5.  Although I haven't been motivated to do a lich to even get the 2021 weapons, let alone get another KKohm with the same element.  And slashy slash builds are less powerful now.  (Though still totally viable and fun.  Twin Kohmak still wrecks afaic.)

Anyway, as far as Kuva vs. Original Recipe, my semi-educated guess is that, with no rivens, KKohm would work better for my purposes.  It ends up with an extra slot for HM, or  better leverages HM if both builds use it.    The larger fall-off isn't a big negative for me, as I want to use the Kohm like a melee weapon anyway.  And not a melee weapon with Primed Reach on it either.  The higher down time due to more reloads should be made up for by the pleasure of a higher RoF and slightly quicker spool-up.

With a riven though, I wouldn't be shocked if the Kohm does better.  Especially a very good riven.

Do you use Shotgun Vendetta on it?

[NinjaZeku]

5 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Do you find using Galvanised Acceleration helps much?

Oh, certainly (if you didn't succumb to the temptation of slotting Ammo Mutation instead, heh).

10 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Do you use Shotgun Vendetta on it?

TBH, I still mostly just use Merciless on everything :D

Also, I'm actually quite confused over how to exactly trigger that Arcane, like,
it wants Shotgun kills within 5 meters, not of you, but of "the target" ... huh?

Isn't the "target" the enemy that I am shooting at, and thus the one that's going to die?
So does this Arcane want me to, what, somehow miss and hit another enemy behind them?

Or are you supposed to use Punch Through / AoE to kill multiple enemies close to each other at the exact same moment?
How do DOTs work in that scenario? If the "target" dies first, what then?
And how does "target" determination even work with AoE?

... this is giving me a headache lol, Merciless my beloved, here I come :P

[Tiltskillet]

12 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Also, I'm actually quite confused over how to exactly trigger that Arcane, like,
it wants Shotgun kills within 5 meters, not of you, but of "the target" ... huh?

I haven't really thought about the wording.  (In the wiki, it's simply "On shotgun kill within 5 meters". which makes more sense, but it's odd that they're different.) And in practice, if I'm within 5m of a target when it dies from shotgun induced trauma, I get the buff.  And I don't when I'm outside that range.

[The_End_Kinda]

19 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

TBH, I still mostly just use Merciless on everything :D

Merciless=4s upkeep

dexterity = 20s upkeep

try it out it’s better 

and secondaries you should be running encumber/or something without upkeep

Edited August 10 by The_End_Kinda

[NinjaZeku]

3 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

In the wiki, it's simply "On shotgun kill within 5 meters".

Which Wiki?

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Shotgun_Vendetta

Shotgun Vendetta is a Primary Arcane that, on a shotgun kill within 5 meters of the target, increases Multishot and Reload Speed for 15 seconds.

3 minutes ago, The_End_Kinda said:

Merciless=4s upkeep

dexterity = 20s upkeep

try it out it’s better 

Oh sure, if you frequently switch between Melee and Guns, and not least also have a Melee setup that benefits from Combo Duration, it seems nice.

My setups / playstyles don't always work that way though, so Merciless is just more generally applicable in my case, with no need to switch stuff around :P

[Zakkhar]

10 minutes ago, The_End_Kinda said:

Merciless=4s upkeep

dexterity = 20s upkeep

4s per stack of 12 stacks. And doesnt requere anythiing specific.

20s per stack of 6 stacks. And you need to use your melee to kill stuff (last hit).

 

[The_End_Kinda]

18 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

4s per stack of 12 stacks. And doesnt requere anythiing specific.

20s per stack of 6 stacks. And you need to use your melee to kill stuff (last hit).

 

Merciless also requires kills so i dont know what you are talking about last hit 

1 melee kill every 20s is way less up keep than 1 primary/secondary kill every 4s, im sweating just thinking about it

Edited August 10 by The_End_Kinda

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, The_End_Kinda said:

Merciless also requires kills

Kills with a weapon you are actively using and attempting to buff damage for. 

1 hour ago, The_End_Kinda said:

1 melee kill every 20s is way less up keep than 1 primary/secondary kill every 4s, im sweating just thinking about it

Your KPM must really suck.

[The_End_Kinda]

44 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Kills with a weapon you are actively using and attempting to buff damage for. 

Your KPM must really suck.

Those are just presumptive statements bud

[Zakkhar]

29 minutes ago, The_End_Kinda said:

Those are just presumptive statements bud

If you are having trouble killing an enemy every 4 seconds, it means you KPM (kills per minute) is below 15.

Average SP builds start at 100 KPM, good builds do 120-150, maginificient ones do 200+.

Basic math, nothing presumative here.

Edited August 10 by Zakkhar

[The_End_Kinda]

13 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

If you are having trouble killing an enemy every 4 seconds, it means you KPM (kills per minute) is below 15.

Average SP builds start at 100 KPM, good builds do 120-150, maginificient ones do 200+.

Basic math, nothing presumative here.

Your presumption is that the only weapon people use is primary, maybe see outside of that pinhole you are breathing through bud

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Which Wiki?

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Shotgun_Vendetta

Shotgun Vendetta is a Primary Arcane that, on a shotgun kill within 5 meters of the target, increases Multishot and Reload Speed for 15 seconds.

Look at the infobox on that page.

[Zakkhar]

3 hours ago, The_End_Kinda said:

Your presumption is that the only weapon people use is primary,

Not really. If you do not use Primary, you do not need to get or keep the buff up. Once you start using it, it will ramp up fast. If you stop using it for some reason, agan, you do not need the bonus any more. You do not get any prizes for keeping the buff at max when weapon is holstered.

3 hours ago, The_End_Kinda said:

maybe see outside of that pinhole you are breathing through bud

Maybe chill with the ad personam.

[Zakkhar]

8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Also, I'm actually quite confused over how to exactly trigger that Arcane, like,
it wants Shotgun kills within 5 meters, not of you, but of "the target" ... huh?

Target is the enemy you have your targetting reticle on. You do not have to kill it. You just have to kill an enemy you are not actively targetting.

It will trigger on Punch Through kills (eg. Arca Plasmor), collaterals (high spread of pellets killing multiple closeby enemies, or just Arca Plasmor), Ele/Gas/Blast status kills (if it was triggered by shotgun) and Radial Attack kills (eg. Strun Incarnon, Sobek's Acid Shells). 

Edited August 11 by Zakkhar