Why does Gloom have 95% Slowdown?

[dwqrf]

il y a 10 minutes, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

because you cant have enough Dur, Effi, Range on Avalanche without sacrificing Cast Time.

Madurai says hi.

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

9 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Madurai says hi.

and how 100% is nearly enough if you cant do anything meanwhile. Do you really think I actually take off my finger off controlls, hover it over another button far away on the keyboard, press it then return on rightful place just to keep moving? No.

Also you are not Madurai, I one when I see one.

[Binket_]

On 2024-08-23 at 7:41 AM, Zakkhar said:

ask them to stop or leave.

If it were that easy, this wouldn't be an issue spanning literal months.

... though, that specific part doesn't really need Gloom to happen.
People just absolutely LOATHE the idea of someone daring to say anything in this game.
Positive commentary? Evil incarnate.
Polite reminder of the objective? Scourge of mankind.
A bit of sass in the face of getting spat upon? Sin of the earth, punishment of exile into unreality.

Asking someone to turn off their Gloom for like... 5 minutes is like the equal to threatening them at gunpoint and saying the words "Calm down!"
Best part? I wish I were kidding. I sincerely wish this wasn't a situation I've run into more times than than there are days in a month.
I'm genuinely unsure if I'm just cursed to run into horrible people or if that's just the norm. At this point, I have to assume it's the latter.

 

On 2024-08-23 at 8:22 AM, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

It's just I find it uncommon enough these days. Unless I can't tell when someone uses it because I'm killing everything on sight if the mission requires it.

God, I wish I lived in your fairy tale land... or at least what may as well one for me.

Everything else on that was pretty much the same sentiment.
"There's better options" and "It's mostly just an obstacle if someone DOES choose to use it."

It's for that exact reason why I'd prefer it to be nerfed.

• If you want Slows? Ophanim Eyes and Wyrd Scythes still exist.
  • They just function better and provide more utility.
• You wanna lock down a room? Those exist too, usually for cheaper too.
  • Often with benefits that affect your allies too. Even beyond lifesteal.
• Keep the Lifesteal function, that at least doesn't get in the way.

Personally? I'd love to Gloom get an entirely new function, but that's also not as feasible.
... but nerfing Gloom specifically accomplishes just as much with very little to lose.
Besides a few reluctant Overframe Troglodytes that is, but they'll simply parrot the next stupid idea.
It's just a gamble to find one stupid idea they can stick to that isn't extremely obnoxious.

 

35 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Do you really think I actually take off my finger off controlls, hover it over another button far away on the keyboard, press it then return on rightful place just to keep moving?

Yes, actually. I do it all the time.
If I have to reach a distant key often?
I'll rebind that control to a different key so it's easier to reach.

There is a reason my Melee key is "Mouse4" and my Heavy Attack is "Mouse5".
It's also the reason why sliding if "F", roll is "R" and my reload is "Q".
All keys I frequently press, all keys within close proximity to WASD while not having to contort my hands in weird ways.

If those keys seem weird to you, cool! They're for me.
I imagine you'll have your own settings, but it's expected that you'll to set them to your own liking.
You have the tools, use them.

39 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Also you are not Madurai, I (know?) one when I see one.

1. Tap 5.
2. Press spacebar twice.
3. OPTIONAL: Molt Vigor? Press 2.
4. Tap 5.

Congrats! You now have additional Casting Speed and +40% Ability Strength.
It really is that easy.

It ain't Naramon, I'll say that much. That gets a lot weirder to work with.

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

24 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Yes, actually. I do it all the time.

Sorry I lost my 6th finger in an accident. Of not being born with 7.
5  25
also I have no idea what you refer to by optional.
My casting speed remains unhinged.
Maybe it would be easier if I could install 8 insanely op mods and since we are talking about it I see no reason why I should not mention why I like Vazarin.

Gloom is just 360 huge constant Energy Pulse

[Zakkhar]

23 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

If it were that easy, this wouldn't be an issue spanning literal months.

... though, that specific part doesn't really need Gloom to happen.
People just absolutely LOATHE the idea of someone daring to say anything in this game.
Positive commentary? Evil incarnate.
Polite reminder of the objective? Scourge of mankind.
A bit of sass in the face of getting spat upon? Sin of the earth, punishment of exile into unreality.

I wouldnt generalise. Yes, there are idiots. Idiots exist, you will meet them everywhere. Just do not let them provoke you. Keep doing what you are doing. Yesterday I had a radshare group and host picked a low level survival - it was a console host. Long story short we did not get enough reactantt pre 5 minutes mark. After It was obvious that we have been doing somethiing wrong, I gave two pointers: 1. stop killing enemies until they are corrupted 2. stop spreading around the whole map. One dude imidiately asked, if I also help him to do his taxes, I asked, which country? Some other dude, commented that I just wanted to help. But everyone imidiately grouped up in ~1 room instead of runninng around. Some people still killed stuff instantly (stat padding), but we managed to get 10 reactant in last seconds.

Quote

Asking someone to turn off their Gloom for like... 5 minutes is like the equal to threatening them at gunpoint and saying the words "Calm down!"
Best part? I wish I were kidding. I sincerely wish this wasn't a situation I've run into more times than than there are days in a month.
I'm genuinely unsure if I'm just cursed to run into horrible people or if that's just the norm. At this point, I have to assume it's the latter.

Just explain the reasoning to them: Slower enemies, longer rounds, more time wasted. You can even show them (measure round timer).

If they cant take logic reasoning (typical excuses is: "I just want to have fun"). Just leave. Keep doing it, at some point you will get a player who not only listens to reasoning in this mission, but will also improve in the future.

Hopeless romantic, I know.

[Binket_]

19 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Sorry I lost my 6th finger in an accident. Of not being born with 7.

Unless you have the dexterity of a stale cracker and the reaction speed of a weed-smoking sloth?
You shouldn't NEED a dozen fingers. Just the ability to know what you're pressing and why.
^{Also, even if you DID have these things-- there are keyboards that can be used to account for such things. I don't know specific ones, but I know they exist.}

If you were on controller, I MIGHT be more inclined to believe it-- but that's just because Warframe is a PC game.
They're not usually meant for that kinda control input. Too much needed with far too few buttons, compensation for that often means sacrificing utility.

22 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

also I have no idea what you refer to by optional.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Molt_Vigor
Basically if you have that equipped? Do the optional step.

I thought that was pretty self-explanatory, given that I mentioned the Arcane's name explicitly.
^{It's a pretty common one to use too. Especially with Channeled Abilities.}

24 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Gloom is just 360 huge constant Energy Pulse

That description more matches "Nourish" or even "Voracious Metastasis"-- you sure we're talking about the same ability?
^{If you mean Gloom is a 360 degree constant slow? Yes, that's the problem with it. Use those jelly-orbs in your meaty face called "Eyes" to double-check that for yourself!}

 

 

22 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

I wouldnt generalise. Yes, there are idiots. Idiots exist, you will meet them everywhere. Just do not let them provoke you. Keep doing what you are doing.

... again, if it weren't always in-my-face and being a constant issue? That'd be the plan, yes.

If someone is just being an idiot and saying stupid nonsense in chat? Yeah, I can probably ignore that.
^{Hell, out of all the players I've had to report? People saying stuff in chat is the most unlikely of the bunch.}
It'd be annoying to see, absolutely-- but I can ignore it if it becomes too much of a problem.

Hell, if somebody is using some weird and jank kit?
So long as they're actively participating and playing nice with others, I don't really care.
In fact, I'd probably encourage that kind jank-- Warframe has hundreds of options, we shouldn't be restricted to a handful of those.

I can't ignore Gloom as easily however. Not with it being this rampant and with no real counter to stop them from doing that.
Anything short of constantly picking Loki or Valkyr and attempting to throw them off a cliff that is. _{(Which may not always be an option even if I did.)}
If I did that anyway? I'd be equally doing something just as obnoxious, just on a different wavelength of it.

If the solution to stopping someone from being a problem.. is to also be a problem?
I think a nerf can be reasonably expected.

28 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Long story short we did not get enough reactantt pre 5 minutes mark. After It was obvious that we have been doing somethiing wrong, I gave two pointers: 1. stop killing enemies until they are corrupted 2. stop spreading around the whole map. One dude imidiately asked, if I also help him to do his taxes, I asked, which country? Some other dude, commented that I just wanted to help. But everyone imidiately grouped up in ~1 room instead of runninng around. Some people still killed stuff instantly (stat padding), but we managed to get 10 reactant in last seconds.

31 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Just explain the reasoning to them: Slower enemies, longer rounds, more time wasted. You can even show them (measure round timer).

If they cant take logic reasoning (typical excuses is: "I just want to have fun"). Just leave. Keep doing it, at some point you will get a player who not only listens to reasoning in this mission, but will also improve in the future.

See, when I do that? I get called things like a "colonizer", "misogynist", "try-hard", "elitist", blah blah blah.
Names with no real meaning behind them except blind malice, usually because the person in question is just being a toxic twit.
^{Also, yes. I have been called things like "colonizer" by what are allegedly people. In Warframe. When I'm trying to give basic tactics. This is the world we live in.}

Don't get me wrong, I DO try to inform players or remind them of the objective if the need arises.
Usually with an attempt to be polite or witty. Whichever I'm feeling at that given moment.
I want people to do better without me needing to pull out the "behave stick".
However, I'm not looking to be a pushover. If people are being problematic, I'm not going to hold back the sass.
^{Something something "Say stupid things, win stupid prizes!" that my old teacher used to say. Good guy, witty fella.}

Besides, even if I were to leave them in the dust?
I can only requeue so many times before I feel like it's a lost cause.
Most people would than say "Just go solo!" but if I wanted to play Solo? ULTRAKILL is right there... that or Dolphin Emulator.

 

Even still, my point was more "Gloom is being abused by players who clearly want to cause issues, why is this still allowed?"
DE has nerfed other abilities with far less effect in the Helminth.
They HAVE also looked into editing abilities that are current "meta" as well. _{(To mixed results, of course.)}

It's not unthinkable to have Gloom nerfed, especially NOW since we have better alternatives that are far less obstructive to other players.
Can it be abused? Everything can with enough effort.
Will it be abused? Probably not if the effort is way too high.

There's a reason you don't see Valkyrs rip-lining everyone into hazards, it's a pain to pull off.
It's also why nobody cares to worry about it, let alone think "we should nerf ripline because of it."
Gloom CAN be a hassle and it can do so very easily. Of course there's posts about it.

[Waeleto]

Lol someone's mad

[Zakkhar]

8 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Even still, my point was more "Gloom is being abused by players who clearly want to cause issues, why is this still allowed?"

That is not the fault of gloom, but the griefers. There are plenty more abilities that can cause malice and plenty more ways to do so.

If you have time you can attempt to manipulate them into admitting they just want to grief you, save the evidence and make a support ticket with it. In game report is just a placebo, does nothing unless multiple people report this person.

It is kinda wierd, but I cant remember last time I had a Gloomer in my squad in eg. defence. Maybe they just all land up in your missions instead. I am sorry. I wish I could take some.

Edited August 24 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

10 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Usually with an attempt to be polite or witty. Whichever I'm feeling at that given moment.

Wrong. Do not respect people who did not earn your respect. Being artificially polite towards griefers is what gives them the same satisfaction as if you raged.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 2 heures, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

and how 100% is nearly enough if you cant do anything meanwhile. Do you really think I actually take off my finger off controlls, hover it over another button far away on the keyboard, press it then return on rightful place just to keep moving? No.

Also you are not Madurai, I one when I see one.

??? 

I really hope Gozilla is doing fine.

[Binket_]

53 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

That is not the fault of gloom, but the griefers. There are plenty more abilities that can cause malice and plenty more ways to do so.

Yes, and I feel those abilities could be addressed as well.

I'm still unsure as to why Switch Teleport is still a thing for Loki to be blunt.
It doesn't do nearly enough to be something worthy of "The God of Tricksters", y'know?
... and Banish is the subsume for Limbo because the other three just wouldn't work.
Still arguably useless to put on any Warframe. Those aren't the only examples though.

However, these other abilities are either locked to a specific Warframe or are generally just useless.
Gloom has just enough utility to let Overframe recommend it wildly, but not enough to avoid being a headache.

Like I said, with the effort increasing to grief with the ability? The less likely people are to use it.
Less likely they are to use it? The better the experience for everyone.
It'll never be perfect, but better than a headache is ideal.

54 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Wrong. Do not respect people who did not earn your respect. Being artificially polite towards griefers is what gives them the same satisfaction as if you raged.

Lemme reiterate, I attempt to be either polite or witty UNTIL they decide to be needless problems I can't shoot. _(yet)
After they decide to say something that photoshops angry eyebrows on me? I don't hold back, I'll tell them exactly how I view them.
^{"Could be outsmarted by sidewalk gravel", "The cancer of decision-making", "Evolution's table-scraps" and more are some that are pending-use.}

You can't tell if someone is going to be problem until they actually are. Otherwise you can only assume.
I try not to let a previous squad be an issue for the next-- but oh boy! Warframe sure does love testing my patience.

 

[Famecans]

Pov: Nuclear player trying to nerf a slow skills.
Solution: Walk up to enemies and kill them directly.

I feel like the author of this topic is too lazy to click multiple buttons during gameplay,
I'll be honest and say that I'm also lazy, but I'll say what I learned from floating numbers:

We need to be less lazy with multiple click actions, we need to intERACT with buttoNs and gameplay.
Gloom Helminth is perfectly fine🙂

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

9 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Unless you have the dexterity of a stale cracker and the reaction speed of a weed-smoking sloth?
You shouldn't NEED a dozen fingers. Just the ability to know what you're pressing and why.
^{Also, even if you DID have these things-- there are keyboards that can be used to account for such things. I don't know specific ones, but I know they exist.}

Interesting but you clearly have no idea what are you talking about stating anything about me. Here I post my my stream.
 

9 hours ago, dwqrf said:

??? 

I really hope Gozilla is doing fine.

Godzilla, and it is hungry

Edited August 25 by PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE

[_Anise_]

On 2024-08-22 at 6:34 PM, Binket_ said:

gloom remains the top-tier because it's braindead and people refuse to try new things.

Nourish, Roar, Eclypse, strength, ammo efficiency, finally gloom which is almost tied with whnatever runetransfer is, silence and only just above the helminth runspeed thing.

Yes they are old numbesr but afaik all we have and I think it shows / proves in terms of usage gloom is probably balanced, I think messing with it might just push more people into roar, so if anything buff other helminths.

the lifesteal like op exaggerates heals a million, but given majority of regular shield / heal warframes are either taking advnatage of shieldgate or dead in difficult content with their shields down and health exposed it might as well be Medi-Ray or heal for 1.

I do play a few squish frames that gloom makes viable, CC in warframe is in the worst state its ever been in, heavy cc focus frames are dropping off hard, please don't argue DE to nerf CC more because you don't like gloom, don't use it no one is forcing you.

 

Edited August 25 by _Anise_

[Godlysparta]

On 2024-08-22 at 10:34 AM, Binket_ said:

Okay, so let's recap on this travesty of an ability.

We have...

• A channeled ability that is subsumable.
  •  The ONLY subsumable channeled ability at that.
• Affects every enemy in a given range, increasing the energy cost a paltry amount.
  • This effect has no line-of-sight and will affect a target unless they are outright immune to abilities.
  • Targets of such include Eximus, Wolf of Saturn Six, Nullifiers, etc.
• Gives two major effects: Lifesteal to allies, slowness to Enemies.
  • Lifesteal is basically insta-regen to all health because 1% of 1mil is going to be enough no matter what.
  • Slowness of to 95%, borderline frozen in place. _{(We'll put a pin in that for later.)}
• The area it effects slowly expands as the ability is active.
• SEVAGOTH ONLY: Provides a mediocre amount of gauge for his Shadow.

Okay, so-- everyone caught up on the ability? Good?

 

Alright cool.
WHO THE HELL LACKED THE EYES TO HAVE MISSED THE OBVIOUS PROBLEM HERE FOR SO LONG?!!

I cannot stress this enough, 95% slowdown! On ALL ENEMIES within a set zone?!
A zone of which can easily fit an entire room given enough Ability Range-- and everybody will be using at least SOME kind of range!

Look, I get it. Slowdown abilities aren't anything new.
We had Molecular Prime that hits a certain zone, Wyrd Scythes can ALSO hit insane slowness.
Molecular Prime changes the Lifesteal for a 50% Damage Vulnerabilty Debuff on enemies, they also explode on death. It also has a lower cap on the Slow debuff at 75%.
Wyrd Scythes, Ophanim Eyes, etc. also don't work on the entire room. They work on a select few enemies. Ones you're already working on.

Oh, so why is it an issue? Because those same abilities that aren't Gloom don't slow EVERYTHING down to a crawl!
Defense Missions are a slog already. We don't need enemies to take even longer to show up.
At least with the other abilities, they'd be softened up. Maybe even set for a cool cascade effect with things like Molecular Prime.
Gloom doesn't do that. It ONLY slows.

Survivability is a common excuse I hear. Yeah, you'll survive better since nothing can shoot at you.
... at the cost of extreme boredom because nothing will happen and nothing CAN happen.
(Let's not pretend anyone with Shields active- of which is a majority of the roster- is actually using that Health Regen.)
There's nothing to do, nothing to outwit, you win. Congrats, you just win. Period. Slowly, painfully, not an ounce of fun-- but you win!

 

If you want to survive without annoying everyone else by clogging up spawns in a given room?
We have...

• Condemn: Locks enemies where they stand in a given line, hoists their heads up visibly and replenishes your Shields.
  • You know what's better than a slow-moving target? One that doesn't move at all.
  • You can run out of Shields, but you can't run out of Health. Condemn just buffers your defenses even more than Gloom ever could.
  • Costs only 25 Energy too. That is crazy cheap.
• Quiver: Creates a bubble of invisibility where it lands. Standing in the bubble makes you invisible.
  • ... do I need to explain why invisibility is broken? No, I don't.
  • Yes, you may have to stand still if you lack range. That's why you RECAST.
    • Plus, I know many of you don't parkour enough to use that excuse of "moving".
• Radial Blind: Flashbangs the enemy, locking them in place and opening them to finishers.
  • Same idea as Gloom, better results and less intrusive.
• Shooting Gallery: Boosted damage, jams guns of nearby enemies. (Stuns Melee units)
  • Add respective augment to turn it into Radial Blind with extra damage.
  • Also boosts allies, regardless of distance.

And that's just the subsumable options I can remember off of memory.
Don't even get me started on how using Shivering Contagion on Verglas just shuts down nearly everything completely.
^{Most things can't block Verglas anyway because it's not an ability. Cold procs just do that.}

 

But the biggest thing above all of this?
These options don't consistently effect the entire room.
Some may be instant-cast and effect the room, but none lock it down.
Even Nova's Molecular Prime has a short lifespan and a costly upkeep. _{(Notice how I keep mentioning it? I have to make sure the idea sticks.)}
We have options, but Gloom remains the top-tier because it's braindead and people refuse to try new things.
The fact of the matter is: The only way to get people to stop using Gloom in a detrimental way... is to take it away from them.
^{They'll likely complain, but you know what? They had their fun, time to patch the ability that functions more like an exploit than a tactic. Saves me the Tylenol.}

 

So, can we please nerf Gloom's slowdown when in the Helminth at least?
About down to 20% Slow-Cap should be more than enough. Only go higher if you make the Energy Cost from it being active DRAMATICALLY more hungry.
If we're feeling extra nice that day? Nerfing Sevagoth's Gloom directly to a 40% cap on the slow would be stellar. No more than that, otherwise it doesn't do enough.

 

I mean, it's safe to say that slows only negatively affect Defense. ONE game mode out of the billion game modes Warframe has. I don't think this is much of an issue at all. Yeah, it may suck when you have to do Defense but other than that, this game has way too many game modes where the slow would help more than hinder. I think you're looking at this a bit narrow mindedly. I don't think DE is gonna nerf an ability just because it minorly hinders a single game mode. 

[Binket_]

15 hours ago, Famecans said:

I feel like the author of this topic is too lazy to click multiple buttons during gameplay

On the damn contrary, I'm usually blitzing around. (Volt is most-used for a reason)
Warframe is known for high-paced action. If I wanted to automate things, there's multiple genres for that.

"Just go kill it" is kinda dumb to say anyway. Obviously that's the idea for the majority of the game.
The problem is that people are making the notion of "Go on and kill it" more annoying to do.
Instead of running one hallway down, I have to run three hallways. That's not fun, it's just making a chore out a simple task.

Just don't bring the entire room to a halt.
"Just go and do it" also applies to turning off Gloom-- but people will argue against that, huh?
It's reductive, go away.

 

7 hours ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Interesting but you clearly have no idea what are you talking about stating anything about me. Here I post my my stream.

I'll make it clear for you, since metaphors don't register...

Rebind your keys. It's a thing everyone can do.

 

4 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

Yes they are old numbesr but afaik all we have and I think it shows / proves in terms of usage gloom is probably balanced, I think messing with it might just push more people into roar, so if anything buff other helminths.

Normally, I'd be inclined to agree since Roar and such are VERY widely used.

... But I'd like to point out why that's the case. That being abilities like Roar and Eclipse grant raw damage.
In Roar's case? Universal Faction damage, which is a massive boost to pretty much everything under the sun.

I absolutely agree those are very powerful and very commonly-used abilities.... but they're also relative unobstructive to general gameplay.
Especially when said buffs can often be made redundant when many weapons can kill as is, regardless of them being applied.

Gloom however is VERY obstructive to general gameplay, but provides very little benefit.
In contrast, it being so highly used makes little sense. Especially since most Warframes have Shields and would prefer to use those.

 

To reiterate, this isn't about how popular Gloom is. 
It's about how annoying it is to deal with in gameplay.

4 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I do play a few squish frames that gloom makes viable, CC in warframe is in the worst state its ever been in, heavy cc focus frames are dropping off hard, please don't argue DE to nerf CC more because you don't like gloom, don't use it no one is forcing you.

But that's the thing, the alternatives for Crowd-Control from the Helminth alone are generally more favorable.

Condemn as I've said before is a great example. Provides Shields to it's user and locks enemies in place for easy headshots.
Unlike Gloom, it must be cast on enemies in a line. So it's not constantly present, ensuring that whatever is affected by Condemn is considered something viable to shoot.
If enemies are slowed while being out of range to all forms of damage, all it's doing is frustrating players to go and manually find the schmuck.

Many players mention they use Gloom for two purposes, keeping enemies at bay and easy headshots.
However, both are things that Condemn not only do better-- but with less frustration stemming from allies.

Ophanim Eyes is also another good contender for this spot that came out recently.
Being a Slow, Armor Strip and source of Heat Procs in whatever direction you're looking at.
However, since it's not effecting everything in the room? It's generally more acceptable.

You not only have alternatives, but ones that are healthier for the game as a whole.
I am arguing for Gloom to be nerfed, not Crowd-Control as a whole.
^{The fact you insinuate that Gloom if the ONLY viable option is concerning.}

 

1 hour ago, Godlysparta said:

I mean, it's safe to say that slows only negatively affect Defense. ONE game mode out of the billion game modes Warframe has.

• Mirror Defense and Interception may find it useful, but other abilities can lock enemies down just as well. Possibly more effectively.
  • However, Mirror Defense merely brings the enemies to a standstill halt. Abusing the nature of it's timer rather than it being genuinely beneficial.
  • Interception often gets flak due to players needing to manage multiple spots at once. Often with maps to make that annoying.
  • Both modes are also infamously boring to many players.
• Survival's Life Support quickly drains if enemies are not dropping the extensions for it's timer.
  These spawn often clog up in hallways or other intersections when a player is near one and using Gloom.
  • "Go over there and kill them" is generally the response I see the most, but this problem than persists even as the user moves through rooms.
  • Condemn, Ophanim Eyes, Radial Blind, etc. are other abilities that do not share this problem. As they only target readily available enemies.
• Capture, Exterminate, Rescue, Spy and other Non-Endless Missions tend to have very little negatives from this ability, sure.
  • They also get very little benefit as well. Arguably it would be more effective to use Condemn, Silence or other similar abilities.
  • Especially Silence if you're going the route of "Stealth Levelling" as targets remaining unalerted is far easier with that.
    • Comparatively to Gloom where only one enemy needs to see a threat or dead body to immediately alert all the others.
• Disruption gets very minimal effect out Gloom, as Demolishers can be slowed to a crawl with Cold Procs more effectively.
  • Not only that, but faster enemies means a more steady flow of keys to activate conduits.
• Excavation tends to enjoy having enemies attack Excavators less, but enemies are slowed-- not halted.
  • Enemies with enough firepower can absolutely still deplete a Excavator's defenses very quickly, even with just one shot.
  • Alternatively, it would be better to either deploy some form of defense (I.E. Frost's Snowglobe, Gara's Mass Vitrify, etc.)
  • Than using some form of Crowd Control from that spot would allow Power Cells to be plentiful enough, even as a form of "emergency regen".
• Hell, if we're going to the brink of EVERY type of node? Even the more forgotten ones?
  • Index gets very little use of this, thanks to the extreme energy drain.
    • It'd be more useful to use something akin to Silence or a different long-duration buff.
  • Rathuum has usage out of abilities like Pull or Radial Blind.
    • Targets there are very vulnerable to finishers.
    • Having them at normal speed lets you double up quickly if the first strikes don't kill.
    • Otherwise, having them notice you makes them emit sound cues, making them easier to locate.
    • ... and we all know the Khora+Nekros+Nidus strat for that area. If you're doing that? Gloom helps nobody.
  • Infested Salvage is a mix of Survival and Interception. You'll want to be moving to collect objective-related items.
    • Therefore, Gloom dramatically hinders this. Slower enemies? Less drops within a decent range.
    • Also, it's generic Infested. You should have no problems dealing with them.
  • Void Cascade has very little effect from this. You'll want enemies to enter the field of the objective to bring it's gauge back in your favor.
  • Void Armageddon has it's own methods of Crowd Control. Ones of which make the mode more appealing than Defense.
    • Otherwise, same effect as Defense.
  • Void Flood has... very little use for Gloom, let alone most abilities that effect enemies to begin with.
    • If anything, the small steady stream of enemies can drop bits of Vitoplast needed to progress.
    • So again... slow the spawn rate and the mission's progress slows accordingly.
  • Alchemy will generally go faster if you can get enemies to approach the Crucible faster. Thanks to the Amphor drops being required.
    • The Sanctum Anatomica tileset is especially infamous for it's spawn density getting stuck in certain areas.
    • ... and that's without Gloom. With Gloom makes it even more of a problem.
  • Ascension (The Jade mission) is a glorified elevator wait. Honestly, anything will do so long as you can power the elevator.
    • In addition, it'd be ideal to bring Silence thanks to many Jade Eximus that will be occupying that node.
  • Open World sections would likely benefit more from Abilities that reposition Enemies, such as Coil Horizon or Pull.
    • Many bounties want enemies to be killed in a specific way. Usually in a specific spot.
    • Obviously Gloom slowing them down is generally an annoyance.
  • Defection largely makes enemies irrelevant and your focus is often hard-fixed to getting the NPCs to move quickly.
    • If anything, you'll likely want to ragdoll or disrupt enemy movement entirely rather than slow them down.
    • Keeping them out of sight for the NPCs or tricking their AI into avoiding them vastly speeds up the mission.

Do I need to go on? There's very few situations here where Gloom has a distinct advantage that warrants what it does.
If anything, I'd argue that ONLY Mirror Defense and Interception gain any distinct benefit out of it.
... and it's only because both missions rely on an objective where locking out enemies by soaking up their spawn cap is a plus.
^{It's a boring plus, one that makes the mode a joke-- but it is one.}

Defense is just the biggest offender, but even the nodes where it's "mildly effective" are generally unfavorable for it.
For instance, Exterminate. While I absolutely DETEST Thermal Sunder, it's spammed in Exterminate for a reason.
^{And no, Thermal Sunder is a whole different can of worms. We are saving that for a different post, thank you very much.}

This is all without mentioning how boring it is to play with, since enemies being slowed to a crawl feels like the game has been forcibly set to "Baby Mode".
Warframe is a notoriously easy game. It barely punishes you for anything let alone for dying.
In that sense, why wouldn't a player be more inclined to play a lot more flashy and haphazardly?
Why do players insist that they need to play super-safely, even at the detriment of others?

 

 

 

But hey, maybe this is too many words for people.
Here, lemme jingle some keys in front of  everyone. That'll work.
... since even this dweeb from a year ago can explain why it's slowing an entire room is boring.

Keep in mind, this was before the Inaros Rework and before Auto-Melee.
It's only gotten easier.
^{That's not a good thing, by the way.}

[_Anise_]

On 2024-08-25 at 12:22 PM, Binket_ said:

To reiterate, this isn't about how popular Gloom is. 
It's about how annoying it is to deal with in gameplay.

maybe avoid playing with randoms, play solo, with clan or friends people you can ask to not bring gloom or Limbo (who is arguably far more disruptive than gloom not only because it turns off enemies but also turns off your guns! I don't think I need to tell you how frustrating it feels when you are shooting at an enemys and nothing is happening, but that is a bit off topic)

While gloom is probably seeing more use now sevagoth prime is the new shiny I think just give it time and the usage will eventually drop off, I don't think he is good enough to deserve a nerf and I don't the gloom is overused nor do I want to see gloom for helminth go away because I can't stand canalizing shield builds and that is one of the only decent high end suitability options.

tldr I would much rather they put more survivability options into Helminth to combat this "issue" (I don't think it's a problem) and it would also go some to address the "brain dead" subsumes of gloom by giving players more variety.

On 2024-08-25 at 12:22 PM, Binket_ said:

Condemn as I've said before is a great example. Provides Shields to it's user and locks enemies in place for easy headshots.

I used to use condemn before I subsumed hildryn, imo its far more attractive as a overshield generator but I could see it being ok for CC if you also pair it with a grouping tool, either nautilus or a frame that has the innate ability, you would get the advantage of CC without having to build for strength and it would give you shields which imo is arguably better than restoring health.

both abilities are good and play to different strengths, most people don't have that grouping ability and ngl I have played Harrow a few times, people will just run ahead or nuke rooms not letting you land chains on anything at all.

in my opinion if they made harrows chains go out in all directions it might see more use, but on paper I have to choose condemn or pillage I am taking pillage every time, it works on eximus and having enemies die easier in the current state of the game is better than turning them off in most cases (because you can pair it with a frame that is already tanky)

On 2024-08-25 at 12:22 PM, Binket_ said:

Ophanim Eyes is also another good contender for this spot that came out recently.

I have been toying with that one a little bit, its like a limited version of the slow from gloom but also comes with an armorstrip like pillage without needed as much power,

It is nice but comes from a frame that has a passive 50% DR or more when modded / airborne, so it will go fine on a similar semi tanky frame but when I take a squish frame that isn't taking advantage of shieldgate and I go on steelpath I am just having a scorpion grapple me from behind at random and kill me that wont happen with gloom.

On 2024-08-25 at 12:22 PM, Binket_ said:

The fact you insinuate that Gloom if the ONLY viable option is concerning.

I know the options, gloom is the ONLY one that suits my play style, canalizing sheilds I hate and 70% dr from eclypse is going to drop off at higher level and the eyes isn't fit for the purpose you are suggesting, still dropping a pure CC tool in that slot like condemn is also doing nothing when the eximus wave drops, directional thing like condemn is as limited as eyes.

Gloom can at least generate healing to counter toxic effects and keep the units I am not focused on that aren't eximus at bay.

Edited Wednesday at 05:00 AM by _Anise_

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

7 hours ago, Binket_ said:

I'll make it clear for you, since metaphors don't register...

Rebind your keys. It's a thing everyone can do.

Incorrect. No access to the settings room. You are lying and I have perfect opportunity to report this behaviour, also how do I make myself clear of my power level so that I wont get noob advice?

Edited August 25 by PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE

[Binket_]

2 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

maybe avoid playing with randoms, play solo, with clan or friends people you can ask to not bring gloom

... once again, if I wanted to play Solo? I have other games that are better for that.
And yes, I could ask players to not bring it-- but that implies asking at all is anything but a apocalyptic sin to most players.

The friends I can trust to not do that are usually either not online 24/7 _{(like anyone)} or don't play the game anymore. _{(I kinda envy them.)}
It doesn't stop players from being annoying twits. Justfication saying "Well just don't, dummy (:" is the equal of telling a paralyzed to just walk it off.

Stop that. It's not helping anyone.

3 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

Limbo who is arguably far more disruptive than gloom not only because it turns off enemies but also turns off your guns!

Believe me, I want Limbo to get better from that as well.
However, I also have to ask... What's easier to accomplish:

1. Fixing one specific ability by incorporating a hard to it's effect.
   One of which already exists, so they just have to bring said number down.
2. Changing an entire character's functionality so they can perform within multiplayer standards. 
   All while retaining their themes and niches in the process.

Obviously, the answer is the former.

Realistically speaking, Limbo is not getting a rework. Not yet.
Asking for Gloom to be less annoying is asking a LOT LESS however.

Priorities.

3 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

because I can't stand canalizing shield builds and that is one of the only decent high end suitability options.

Why would you use Catalyzing Shields?
Fast Deflection + Arcane Aegis is usually enough to make most Shields extremely durable.
Vigilante Vigor if it's still not enough.

Aegis works best by forcing your Shields to kickstart themselves early.
At that point, it doesn't matter how many Shields you have-- merely that you have them at all.

... besides, I always say: "You can run out of Shields, but you can't run out of Health."
Once your Health Regen can't outpace damage (which is not difficult to have happen), it becomes useless.

3 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

tldr I would much rather they put more survivability options into Helminth to combat this "issue" (I don't think it's a problem) and it would also go some to address the "brain dead" subsumes of gloom by giving players more variety.

They. Have. Though.

Even past the ones I already mentioned, we have...

• Defy: Converts incoming damage to a radial wave. Gives up to 750 Armor when it expires.
  • A particular build I like using this on is Chroma with Guardian Armor, as the absorbed Health Damage from allies contributes to Defy.
• Desiccation: Blinds enemies in a large cone, dealing a paltry amount of True Damage and having Life Steal.
  • The real kicker though is it's augment, allowing you to summon up to 5 Sand Kavat minions.
• Elemental Ward: Varying effects depending on the set Emissive color.
  • Cold is great to pair with Arcane Battery, giving tons of Energy and Armor.
  • Electric works wonderfully on Warframes like Mag or Protea. Offering an additional way to proc Archon Stretch as well.
  • Toxin has a variety of niche uses, but mainly in how it applies said Toxin damage. It's... weird, best to look it up.
  • Heat is of lesser use, but still a valid option IF the reason to boost Health ever crops up.
• Mind Control: Not one that is instantly useful, but being able to capture specific targets that provide support-like functionality is crazy useful.
  • Shield Ospreys can instantly restore your Shields by approaching them.
  • Eximus of various kinds can be EXTREMELY powerful. Especially Leech (of which do a % of Max Health with their bubbles) and Guardian ones. (Provides 90% Damage Reduction aura.)
  • Napalms for Heat Inherit.
  • Infested Ancients can provide certain resistances.
  • Those are just the ones with "support" effects, there are some other niche cases.
  • Try it on Zephyr with Target Fixation. The Multiplier goes crazy.
• Molt: Keeps you safe by drawing enemy aggro away from you. Also boosts your Movement Speed dramatically.
  • Use the Augment for Health Regen as well.
• Reave: Become intangible, lifesteal the Health and Shields off of anything that gets in your way.
  • Obviously a great escape tool.
  • You can even drop any Status Effects you've been afflicted with (I.E. Heat, Blast, Cold, etc.) onto the enemies you pass by.
• Well of Life: Immunity to Status Effects, Health Regen in proximity.
  • Also works great in very unexpected ways.
  • See Also: Concentrated Arrow.

Are they great options? Debatable.
Do they exist and have their own uses? YES.

This isn't even the full list. There's tons of use cases out there, but very few actually wish to even try them.
Half the time, it's not even because they're bad options-- people are just insanely lazy and don't like thinking.

4 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

in my opinion if they made harrows chains go out in all directions it might see more use

... *sigh*.

Warframe community when they have to move the camera two degrees to hit the broad side of a barn.
It's a fast cast, cheap as hell and it hits a wide range for what it is.

If turning the camera a bit so you can hit the OTHER schmucks in the room is too much to handle-- may I suggest another game?
Perhaps Cookie-Clicker? No camera controls there!

4 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

both abilities are good and play to different strengths

Pillage is pretty good as well, but it doesn't do things like make headshots easier.
Realistically, it's up to preference. If someone wants to use Pillage?
So long as it's not making it a hassle for everyone else, they can subsume it over each of their abilities for all I care.

4 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

It is nice but comes from a frame that has a passive 50% DR or more when modded / airborne

You have a 70 degree angle of slowing enemies down.
If you have it active, why aren't you making the most of that?
Stare down corridors, use the terrain to make cover, find an area that they struggle to move around in.

What you're looking for is invincibility... at least from what I can tell.
^{Revenant brainrot. Goes too deep.}

4 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I know the options, gloom is the ONLY one that suits my play style

If your """playstyle""" is sit in a corner and fire a shot every now and again at whatever target FINALLY reached you?
I could replace you with a Specter and it'd be a net positive.

Everyone has their favorites, but sticking to STRICTLY one ability and nothing else?
That's precisely why the phrase "Putting all your eggs in one basket" exists.
Once your gimmick no longer works, you become useless as you relied solely on it.

DE can probably nerf Shields to the ground again for whatever reason, I'll still have ways around it.
They could remove all the Melee weapons in the game, I'll still have some weapons to use.
If they forced everyone to use Banshee? I'd still know how to make the most of it.

Experiment. It won't kill you. Not in ways that matter for Warframe anyway.

 

1 hour ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Incorrect. No access to the settings room.

The hell do you mean "Settings Room"?!
Press ESC, go to Options, it's the FIRST BUTTON there!
... and if you tell me you use Controller? GO TO THE CONTROLLER MENU IN THAT CASE!
^{What am I? Your maid?! If you wanna be treated like a human, act like one and use your noggin!}

God damn it, why do I have to do the reading for literally everyone in this game?!
Did nobody pass their literature class in elementary school?!
... or do they just have trauma response to words and common sense?

I know it's not actually the case, but holy hell-- when I get replies like this? It sure feels like it.
^{Do I need to jingle some keys too, maybe post some mobile-game ads in the corner somewhere?}

1 hour ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

You are lying and I have perfect opportunity to report this behaviour, also how do I make myself clear of my power level so that I wont get noob advice?

No rational human does this. Nobody with a sense of autonomy says things like this.
It's not even in an ironic sense, as it lacks any form of subtle humor. Malicious or otherwise.

Why am I even trying to explain this to you?
Go away. Preferably somewhere without internet.
^{Like a murky swamp or an oceanic trench.}

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

1 minute ago, Binket_ said:

 

The hell do you mean "Settings Room"?!
Press ESC, go to Options, it's the FIRST BUTTON there!
... and if you tell me you use Controller? GO TO THE CONTROLLER MENU IN THAT CASE!
^{What am I? Your maid?! If you wanna be treated like a human, act like one and use your noggin!}

God damn it, why do I have to do the reading for literally everyone in this game?!
Did nobody pass their literature class in elementary school?!
... or do they just have trauma response to words and common sense?

I know it's not actually the case, but holy hell-- when I get replies like this? It sure feels like it.
^{Do I need to jingle some keys too, maybe post some mobile-game ads in the corner somewhere?}

No rational human does this. Nobody with a sense of autonomy says things like this.
It's not even in an ironic sense, as it lacks any form of subtle humor. Malicious or otherwise.

Why am I even trying to explain this to you?
Go away. Preferably somewhere without internet.
^{Like a murky swamp or an oceanic trench.}

Settings room is the room with things to set and those that can be setted or possibly set something up. You know, just the set things.

I will try to follow your instructions but it seem like you forgot to mention I should first allow access through firewall in order for warframe to be able to access my computer which is not happening. Ever.
Esc option only returns me to login screen - No Access. I did lock dormizone there is nothing to worry about.
^{What am I? Your maid?!}
Why yes, consider yourself hired.

[_Anise_]

9 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Stop that. It's not helping anyone.

no you stop, you have the ability to avoid something you don't like but rather than adapt you are choosing to try force the world to adapt to your preferences!

why are modern gamers this way? stop rping as the fun police, gloom is fine.

9 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Asking for Gloom to be less annoying is asking a LOT LESS however.

you're asking for gloom to have a 75% reduction and be capped 20% instead of 95% if an enemy can shoot 1 bullet per second in a 10 second frame and you slow it by 90% it fires 1 bullet, if you slow it by 20% it would fire 8 bullets. you aren't asking for gloom to be adjusted, you are asking it it to be altered in such a way that it is not fit for purpose and no one would use it ever again!

even at your ""generous"" 40% it still fires 6 bullets in 10 seconds but none of this solves what you want, at 40% it still slows down your defense mission, sethagoth can come along and ruin your day with a 95% slow because your hubris won't allow you to play solo, arrange for gloom free missions or quit out of a mission that has him.

Out of curiosity I even tested at 50% slow, a handful of 150+ corrupted heavys will kill a warframe seconds after breaking shields even at 50% slow

 

9 hours ago, Binket_ said:

If your """playstyle""" is sit in a corner and fire a shot every now and again at whatever target FINALLY reached you?

first I don't have 272 strength, I run a 150str build which is about a 50% slow, I can scale that to 250 but it requires some amount of setup, that is still not the slow cap, and if eximus etc come along an energy drain me I have to set this slow up all over again which can be touch and go.

I don't run this on defense because that would be stupid, I will just run though an exterminate killing stuff as I go like I would if I was nezha the only difference to my gameplan is I am alive though CC instead of alive though tanking, and when eximus show up I have to nuke their overguard fast.

9 hours ago, Binket_ said:

You have a 70 degree angle of slowing enemies down

again eyes suck for what you are suggesting there are 290 more degrees where enemies can shoot you from. "what you going todo sit in the middle of the map spinning around to slow everything", you're just going to have a bad day if you play some glass cannon warframe and take it against level 300 enemies and expect the 70 degree cone slow from that to keep you alive, the point I was making is that JADE survives because she has a high built in damage reduction, also healing and I guess the slow helps a little

9 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Revenant brainrot. Goes too deep.

I have close to 0% played as rev ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

9 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Experiment. It won't kill you

well technically it should or it wouldn't be experimenting with random stuff? but trust me I have and It found some nigh unkillable builds that didn't "kill me" that have since been stealth nerfed

Edited August 26 by _Anise_

[Bratty_Child]

20 hours ago, Binket_ said:

To reiterate, this isn't about how popular Gloom is. 
It's about how annoying it is to deal with in gameplay me. I play public and I get to dictate over players loadout, and even options.

But that's the thing, the alternatives for Crowd-Control from the Helminth alone are generally more favorable for me.

Condemn as I've said before is a great example. Provides Shields to it's user and locks enemies in place for easy headshots.
Unlike Gloom, it must be cast on enemies in a line. So it's not constantly present, ensuring that whatever is affected by Condemn is considered something viable to shoot.
If enemies are slowed while being out of range to all forms of damage, all it's doing is frustrating players to go and manually find the schmuck.

Many players mention they use Gloom for two purposes, keeping enemies at bay and easy headshots.
However, both are things that Condemn not only do better-- but with less frustration stemming from allies-- but with more gamer input that could have allowed bombard to shoot at you before pressing the key.

Ophanim Eyes is also another good contender for this spot that came out recently.
Being a Slow, Armor Strip and source of Heat Procs in whatever direction you're looking at.
However, since it's not effecting everything in the room? It's generally more acceptable.

You not only have alternatives, but ones that are healthier for the game as a whole.
I am arguing for Gloom to be nerfed, not Crowd-Control as a whole.
^{The fact I impose that you insinuate that Gloom if the ONLY viable option is concerning.}

You have to put up better points if you want Gloom to be nerfed. It has nothing over Condemn and Eyes of Ophanim. The energy sustain is high too. The fact they are accommodating it at cost of something in their loadout can simply be glossed over the fact that you're in the lobby.

[Binket_]

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

no you stop, you have the ability to avoid something you don't like but rather than adapt you are choosing to try force the world to adapt to your preferences!

why are modern gamers this way? stop rping as the fun police, gloom is fine.

Give me some Radiation procs and I'll fix it myself.
The only thing stopping me from turning those players into hole-riddled twit (or worse) is their smug knowledge that friendly-fire isn't a thing. YET.

You think it's fun because you don't think of the consequences.
I think it's obnoxious as hell because I am getting hit BY the consequences.

If your rebuttal is "But I like it!!"
Yeah, cool. I like Shock Trooper on Volt but I'm not gonna force someone to be affected by it 24/7!
^{The reason for that is simple: It makes problems for them. It's that simple! Sure, I could find more reasons-- but I shouldn't NEED to!}

Why did we all collectively forget that we're not the main character?
It's a multiplayer game. You wanna be unstoppable at the detriment of everyone else?
You got Skyrim for that... or whatever other game you prefer. It's not limited to one.

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

you are asking it it to be altered in such a way that it is not fit for purpose and no one would use it ever again!

Cool. Grand. Wonderful.
Maybe consider that the ability is obstructive to begin with and it's either that or changing the ability entirely.

Unlike many Slows, Stuns and otherwise "Crowd-Control" categorized abilities in Helminth?
Gloom is constantly active. You cast it once and it's on pretty much forever.

You should not be able to turn off EVERY room completely because you press a single button.
I'd say one room is bad enough as is. Don't need the map to be dead as well.

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

Out of curiosity I even tested at 50% slow, a handful of 150+ corrupted heavys will kill a warframe seconds after breaking shields even at 50% slow

Yes, and how often are you actually going to be standing directly still in a firing squad of multiple Heavy Gunners?
Now for a better question: How much firepower are you going to be sending back at them?

You have Cold Procs to use. You have Impact Procs for quick stuns.
They take Parazon finishers, that's free +50% Ability Strength with Power Drain that will persist until you turn it off.

You have a unparalleled Parkour-System, 4 Abilities of various effects, 1 of 5 Focus Schools, a Melee, a Secondary, a Primary, an Archgun, a Necramech in some cases...
... and 58 different Warframes to choose from, not including Primes or Umbra.
With all that, you're telling me you have ZERO way of fighting back these things without the stanky brainrot fog?

Let's also account that you may end up fighting 3 Heavy Gunners at MOST for any given time.
Maybe a mix of other units too, but that mix usually consists as standard Crewman or Lancers. Of which are pitiful.
^{And I'm not even going to pretend like Infested are dangerous to us.}

 

Honestly, you're looking for a strawman. Stop that.
50% slow is by far way too egregious still because you're not going to be sitting making the whole Deli-Sandwich in the meantime.
You are going to be jumping, shooting, casting whatever nuclear bomb button you have on you, etc, etc.
If you stand still, you die. That's like... Shooter 101.
That's not even a Warframe thing, that's something almost every shooter of every sub-genre does.

(Besides, if you're Shields break still? We have Arcane Aegis, Fast Deflection and Vigilante Vigor for that. Just one example of many to fix that.)

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

first I don't have 272 strength, I run a 150str build which is about a 50% slow

Cool, you may not-- be it preference or simply incompetence.
... but I also know for a FACT it's anything but difficult to get that.

Just yesterday I was running a Concentrated Arrow build on Ivara.
Despite having no room for Ability Strength, I still manage to get 225% in conditionals that take no more than 10 seconds to get.
Literally within 10 seconds, I have a fully functional Artemis Bow nuke ready to sliced humanoid for lunch.
I am running 265% Range. With Duration and Efficiency to spare.

I have enough room to add some other junk if I was so inclined to.
You may not have that, but it's far from impossible. Especially in this current state of the game.
Ignorance is not an excuse for this ability being a problem.

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

again eyes suck for what you are suggesting there are 290 more degrees where enemies can shoot you from. "what you going todo sit in the middle of the map spinning around to slow everything"

 

May I subscribe you to Piccolo's training regime?

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

the point I was making is that JADE survives because she has a high built in damage reduction

Also because she's often out of their range, if the game is decided by "who hits first"-- seeing your opponent before they see you is practically the winning strategy.
Do NONE of you use your map?! ... rhetorical question, this is Warframe's playerbase.

The more I read this, the more I'm considering bribing Reb to make a "Darwin" node.
^{For science, of course. Totally not built up spite turning into catharsis, that'd be malicious!}

 

5 hours ago, Bratty_Child said:

You have to put up better points if you want Gloom to be nerfed.

• Is "Slowing the mission down to a crawl" not a good enough point as is?
  • And/or making spawn rates miserable in a game that is already struggling with that?
  • Do I need to pull up the list of missions again that get very little effect from Gloom at best?
• Considering how the game has shifted, Health Regen just isn't useful enough.
• So if people only want the Slowdown, why is it such a highly abusable cap?
  • Naturally, my initial thought is "they can't live without it" and that's... sad.
    It's also a lie, they absolutely can. They just don't want to because NOBODY in this game dares take genuine advice from others!
    • Deadly sin, that. Who would dare tell the king what to do? 
      ^{Did you also know "Pride" is a deadly sin? Hmmm... something doesn't add up there....}
• The Energy Consumption is pitifully small, considering the existence of Synth Deconstruct and Violet Archon Shards (or Equilibrium).
  • Also not counting many other ways of generating Health or Energy Orbs.
    • Of which I could probably mention up to 5 off of memory. Some of which can be used in tandem with each other.
      This isn't even counting "Energy Regen" like the Energy Nexus mod.
  • The fact that the Energy Consumption has a cap in of itself, but the enemies being affected doesn't respect that cap should also be mentioned.
    • There are abilities that consume far more energy, far faster. Sometimes with less effect.
• Hard to design to content around an ability that makes it kinda redundant.
  • If players want "kill kill kill" content and refuse anything else? What else can you do?
  • It's a similar case with Revenant's Mesmer Skin I often bring up: 
    • If the content has to be designed around something that broken, perhaps it's a better idea to nerf it so everything can function again.
      Seriously, if you tell me Elite Deep Archimedea doesn't become a joke when you can equip these kinds of things?
      You'd look like a clown if ya did, so that kinda feels paradoxical at best.
  • While Gloom isn't the only offender of this point, that doesn't make it any less of an issue... or priority.
    • Like it or not, there is a TECHNICAL CAP to how Warframe can play. That is just the nature of hardware.
      If an ability makes it so the game cannot evolve in a meaningful way, this "technical cap" will ensure the game stagnates into irrelevance.
    • I have seen far too many games do this. It's stupid, we have the internet, we should know better by now.
• Alternative options are often overlooked because players cannot be trusted with themselves.
  • It's not a secret either. Humans are like this in general, if there's no consequences for what they CAN do? They will do horrible things.
  • Often it's very small-scale and generally more of a minor annoyance-- but there's always been cases in history where that's not the case.
    In fact, usually the biggest tragedies done by human hands are because someone got a little too much power.
  • It would be stupid beyond any measure to ignore this, given that is innumerable sources of this.
    Yet here I am, trying to explain why a video-game tool that generally fits poorly in any combination of multiplayer players should be turned a notch.
    ^{If it weren't for the fact that I generally like this game when it's NOT being a major pain in the butt over something we could've easily avoided? It'd be long-since dead.}

These forums are a joke, but it's sad that it's best option I got for trying to get ANYTHING useful done in this game.
^{If I have to make hundreds of Twitter of Steam burner accounts just to flak DE into finally fixing their game balance, so help me god. So much effort for something so simple...}

[insanitybit]

I don't think I've ever even seen a Gloom. This feels like a reaction to a bunch of new people playing Sevagoth, which is a temporary situation that won't last. Give it a month and re-read this post and tell me that this is actually a problem that requires nerfing.

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, insanitybit a dit :

I don't think I've ever even seen a Gloom. This feels like a reaction to a bunch of new people playing Sevagoth, which is a temporary situation that won't last. Give it a month and re-read this post and tell me that this is actually a problem that requires nerfing.

This guy gets it. And even in Helminth, people have better choices than a slow or life steal on hit; but they may use Gloom as much as needed, if needed, until then.
Either you accept it as a variable of public games, like volt, limbo, wisp, and such ; or you know... don't play public.

Edited August 26 by dwqrf