Reactant Pickups Should Be Squad Wide

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

With the recent reactant drop rate increase, I was quickly reminded of another way to improve void fissure missions. 

As it stands, only in Railjack missions do your reactant Pickups go to the whole squad. I suggest this be extended to ALL fissure missions. 

Why? In many missions, it's very annoying or outright impossible to get the same reactant as everyone else without travelling massive distances to find reactant that isn't marked unless you're in the tile or without potentially failing the mission. I'm sure people could come up with a bunch of examples but here's a few:

Void cascade: Sometimes someone has to go to the next area where exolizers are spawning or risk failure and because of this, it's not uncommon for one person to not get enough but save the mission. 

Spy: Going for vault C? Well Have fun going all the way back to vault A. 

Survival: People needing to search all the tiles to try to find that one reactant can mess up spawns and because they're not marked unless you're on the same tile, people can struggle to get their reactant. 

This problem can be solved by just making reactant pickup squad wide. Less frustration. Faster missions. 

One downside would be afk players, but we already face those so it wouldn't change much. If someone is afk until the end and go pick up all the reactant bc they want to leech, they'll do that regardless even now. Little to no change for them, but massive improvement for the active players! 

One other downside is timing charm procs. Since the squad would decide when everyone gets their reactant, you could no longer control when you can maximize your charm. Could always double traces given base and make charm not work on traces, but that would eliminate potential double or triple procs. Guess you could make a button trigger the void traces collection. As in you won't receive your traces until either you hit said button or until the mission or rotation ends. That would allow the control you have now with the ease of universal reactant. 

Any other ideas are welcome for solving these downsides, especially the cat problem. 

Edited September 7 by (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

I suggest this be extended to ALL fissure missions. 

I assume it was made this way to prevent AFK leechers. Did anything change and AFK leechers are now extinct?

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Why? In many missions, it's very annoying or outright possible to get the sane reactant as everyone else without travelling massive distances to find reactant that isn't marked unless you're in the tile or without potentially failing the mission. I'm sure people could come up with a bunch of examples but here's a few:

No. Players have just have no idea how it works.

Enemies spawn: Near players > Near objectives (if applicable) > out of line of sight > in the next tile

Corruption occurs near players 

Corruption spawns 3 enemies and corrupts every enemy in the area of it.

How it should be done in order to maximise Reactant: Players group up and refrain from nuking everything in 500 meter radius, gather the enemies and wait for corruption before killing the,

How it is done: Players spread out (eveyone runs different direction), while actively killing everything hostile and chasing new spawns. Corruptions happen less often and are spread aapart in the map, while also only spawning 3 enemies.

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Zakkhar:

I assume it was made this way to prevent AFK leechers. Did anything change and AFK leechers are now extinct?

How does it prevent afking or leeching?

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Spy: Going for vault C? Well Have fun going all the way back to vault A. 

No need, just gather enemies before extraction and wait for the corruption to hit.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Survival: People needing to search all the tiles to try to find that one reactant can mess up spawns and because they're not marked unless you're on the same tile, people can struggle to get their reactant. 

Players spreading is the problem for whole mission not only reactant. Learn the basic mechanics. Commmunicate.

Console hosts are another problem, because their hardware drastically limits the amount of enemies spawned at once.

3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

9 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

I assume it was made this way to prevent AFK leechers. Did anything change and AFK leechers are now extinct?

How does it prevent afking or leeching?

Players who are afk (or just really selfish, griefing, running away from the team on purpose) will not have their relic open and cannot therefore participate in other relics opened.

Edited September 4 by Zakkhar

[Drachnyn]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Zakkhar:

Players who are afk (or just really selfish, griefing, running away from the team on purpose) will not have their relic open and cannot therefore participate in other relics opened.

That sounds more like it enables griefing if anything else. Someone can disrupt spawns and reactant drops for everyone. Someone can kill the remaining enemies before everyone reaches 10.

Meanwhile only literal afk as in tabbing out of the game entirely is punished. Leeching is entirely open since someone can just not contribute anything and just run around picking up the reactants. So it doesnt prevent leeching at all but it does make certain missions worse to play as relic missions. But for that the afk timer already exists.

[Zakkhar]

24 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Someone can disrupt spawns and reactant drops for everyone.

No. 3 players teaming up will always win over 1 griefer.

24 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Someone can kill the remaining enemies before everyone reaches 10.

But then nobody reaches the goal and how it has anything to do with the topic?

24 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Leeching is entirely open since someone can just not contribute anything and just run around picking up the reactants.

That is not leeching. That is your only job really in Void Fissure: equip your relic, get reactant and extract. Anything else is optional.

Edited September 4 by Zakkhar

[Drachnyn]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Zakkhar:

But then nobody reaches the goal and how it has anything to do with the topic?

Incorrect. When someone spawns in late they will not have access to any reactant drop from before they spawned.

 

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Zakkhar:

That is not leeching. That is your only job really in Void Fissure: equip your relic, get reactant and extract. Anything else is optional.

You say it's to prevent afk leecher but now you are saying not contributing anything to the mission and simply opening the relic is not leeching. What is leeching in fissure missions then?

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

I assume it was made this way to prevent AFK leechers. Did anything change and AFK leechers are now extinct?

I talk about this in my post. 

People who afk and come back last second to grab their reactant will continue to do so now. Nothing will change people doing that. But It's best not to use what already happens as a justification to not improve the general user experience. Heck, they could turn off reactant from being added to a person's amount if they have the 1 minute afk mode on. That way the person would have to go pick up the reactant themselves. 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Console hosts are another problem, because their hardware drastically limits the amount of enemies spawned at once.

This is incorrect circa over a year ago. They normalized spawns across platforms some time ago. 

And you can know all you want or have a "just do this" for all situations but it's simply not going to happen in pubs. This suggestion would drastically improve the overall casual experience. People don't want to have to pull up char or run miles or slow down the mission or miss out in reactant due to ensuring the mission doesn't fail, etc just to play the game. 

 

I'm suggesting general ease for all players, but you seem rather gatekeepy

Edited September 4 by (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

but it's simply not going to happen in pubs.

Communicate. Explain the issue, explain how working together is beneficial for common goal.

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

People who afk and come back last second to grab their reactant will continue to do so now.

In low level missions where Reactant is an issue, this is sufficient for their contribution.

7 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

But It's best not to use what already happens as a justification to not improve the general user experience. Heck, they could turn off reactant from being added to a person's amount if they have the 1 minute afk mode on. That way the person would have to go pick up the reactant themselves. 

Yes, more system over player2player interaction. This will solve nothing.

8 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

8 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

But then nobody reaches the goal and how it has anything to do with the topic?

Incorrect. When someone spawns in late they will not have access to any reactant drop from before they spawned.

That is completely different situation to that you have wrote about:

9 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

That sounds more like it enables griefing if anything else. Someone can disrupt spawns and reactant drops for everyone. Someone can kill the remaining enemies before everyone reaches 10.

And the system your propose will NOT solve it.

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

9 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Console hosts are another problem, because their hardware drastically limits the amount of enemies spawned at once.

This is incorrect circa over a year ago. They normalized spawns across platforms some time ago. 

This may be incorrect according to patch notes, but still happens till this day. Low spawns are curiously always in conjunction with console host.

7 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

9 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Console hosts are another problem, because their hardware drastically limits the amount of enemies spawned at once.

This is incorrect circa over a year ago. They normalized spawns across platforms some time ago. 

This may be incorrect according to patch notes, but still happens till this day. Low spawns are curiously always in conjunction with console host.

[kerozen666]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

I'm suggesting general ease for all players, but you seem rather gatekeepy

oh, not gatekeepy, just so obtuse and out of touch that you are better ignoring him to save sometime

 

otherwise, yeah, i don't know why it hasn't been changed to squad wide with the arrival of cascade, since that one game mode is pretty unfriendly to the reactant collection. They increased the drop rate with the hotfix on the 3rd, so maybe it would be fixed, but at thias point i think it's better to just make it squad wide and avoid any issues. if not all at least make it so for endless missions wher eit's the biggest problem, since at least for spy, the mission doesn't end when all vault are hacked and you can still get the reactant

[3xt1inct]

13 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

People who afk and come back last second to grab their reactant will continue to do so now. Nothing will change people doing that. But It's best not to use what already happens as a justification to not improve the general user experience. Heck, they could turn off reactant from being added to a person's amount if they have the 1 minute afk mode on. That way the person would have to go pick up the reactant themselves. 

Well see, the player can still grab reactant, but they won't be able to select from the reward screen of the relics, while the rest of the team can. that is if the afk-mode was triggered.

13 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

This is incorrect circa over a year ago. They normalized spawns across platforms some time ago. 

And you can know all you want or have a "just do this" for all situations but it's simply not going to happen in pubs. This suggestion would drastically improve the overall casual experience. People don't want to have to pull up char or run miles or slow down the mission or miss out in reactant due to ensuring the mission doesn't fail, etc just to play the game. 

 

I'm suggesting general ease for all players, but you seem rather gatekeepy

I never saw a patch note saying they equalized spawns over all platforms, console hosts do generate lower spawn rates in my experience, it has even gotten to the point i can tell the difference between consoles (mainly when its a switch host, man you are lucky if it spawns a group of more than 2 enemies in a room). 

as for the rest, i have never had a hard time picking up reactant so idk what everyone here is on about, the only time where i almost had to run back/ slow down was due to a console hosts hardware not spawning in enough enemies.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

7 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

oh, not gatekeepy, just so obtuse and out of touch that you are better ignoring him to save sometime

 

otherwise, yeah, i don't know why it hasn't been changed to squad wide with the arrival of cascade, since that one game mode is pretty unfriendly to the reactant collection. They increased the drop rate with the hotfix on the 3rd, so maybe it would be fixed, but at thias point i think it's better to just make it squad wide and avoid any issues. if not all at least make it so for endless missions wher eit's the biggest problem, since at least for spy, the mission doesn't end when all vault are hacked and you can still get the reactant

Yeah dude is way deep on the sauce acting like everyone should have to make a whole dissertation to the squad and then thinks the squad playing casual pubs is gonna listen or even should listen. All as an excuse to not improve the general user experience. Wild. 

 

[dwqrf]

Il y a 2 heures, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 a dit :

Yeah dude is way deep on the sauce acting like everyone should have to make a whole dissertation to the squad and then thinks the squad playing casual pubs is gonna listen or even should listen. All as an excuse to not improve the general user experience. Wild. 

 

Stick to Host (1) because that's where the lightning strike and reactant drops.

Improve your own experience by playing better.

[Quest]

I don't really understand the outrage towards people going afk to be honest. I'd rather them do that than be failing vaults or typing a bunch of distracting nonsense in chat. In most missions I can just do everything myself and it doesn't matter. If they die because of it that's on them.

In any case, there is more to this than they are giving it credit for since plenty of active players get caught up in this as well, where they join too late and finish with 9/10 reactant. It's very annoying and I'm glad they did something to help it.

Edited September 5 by Quest

[Tiltskillet]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

People who afk and come back last second to grab their reactant will continue to do so now.

Seems like the question isn't whether it allows afkers to continue doing what they're doing, but whether it encourages more people to do it.

 

[vixenpixel]

On 2024-09-04 at 8:33 AM, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

With the recent reactant drop rate increase, I was quickly reminded of another way to improve void fissure missions. 

As it stands, only in Railjack missions do your reactant Pickups go to the whole squad. I suggest this be extended to ALL fissure missions. 

Why? In many missions, it's very annoying or outright possible to get the sane reactant as everyone else without travelling massive distances to find reactant that isn't marked unless you're in the tile or without potentially failing the mission. I'm sure people could come up with a bunch of examples but here's a few:

Void cascade: Sometimes someone has to go to the next area where exolizers are spawning or risk failure and because of this, it's not uncommon for one person to not get enough but save the mission. 

Spy: Going for vault C? Well Have fun going all the way back to vault A. 

Survival: People needing to search all the tiles to try to find that one reactant can mess up spawns and because they're not marked unless you're on the same tile, people can struggle to get their reactant. 

This problem can be solved by just making reactant pickup squad wide. Less frustration. Faster missions. 

One downside would be afk players, but we already face those so it wouldn't change much. If someone is afk until the end and go pick up all the reactant bc they want to leech, they'll do that regardless even now. Little to no change for them, but massive improvement for the active players! 

One other downside is timing charm procs. Since the squad would decide when everyone gets their reactant, you could no longer control when you can maximize your charm. Could always double traces given base and make charm not work on traces, but that would eliminate potential double or triple procs. Guess you could make a button trigger the void traces collection. As in you won't receive your traces until either you hit said button or until the mission or rotation ends. That would allow the control you have now with the ease of universal reactant. 

Any other ideas are welcome. 

 

 

 

 

 

It's true on spy missions for sure. Also excavation is massively inconvenienced by this imo. I would not mind a change. It's also logical to share the gathering as you do crack the relics together across the entire map. So you are somehow able to dip your fingers into another's relic but not able to share reactants... Doesn't make sense at all. 

I think people objecting on account of saying stuff like "just gather together" is a bit troublesome on these specific missions. However you turn it its going to be more timeconsuming and require the entire community to all suddenly magically realise the right way to play. If we arn't understanding the problem and making the right decisions now, how would not changing it possibly enforce a better strategy?Let me repeat that for those logically impaired, ppl are currently playing it "incorrectly" which means the current way it works isn't teaching ppl how to play correctly, thus we might aswell change it with an added bonus of making some annoying missiontypes more convenient.

 

[vixenpixel]

Ppl "afk leeching" is a non issue. In most relic runs one person has 100% of the damage and 99% of the kills. Its true. The other ppl are there just for the extra relics. Everyone benefits equally. Thats the beauty of sharing the relics. It's absolutely inane to claim reasons for objecting is based on afk leeching. Literally ppl just speedrun through a tile. Killing hordes of enemies is an afterthought in Warframe. Furthermore if you're in a survival or disruption or whatever, while afk leeching is possible technically there's an easy fix if you don't like hogging all the action, for some reason. Next run, don't play with that person. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 18 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

It's true on spy missions for sure. Also excavation is massively inconvenienced by this imo. I would not mind a change. It's also logical to share the gathering as you do crack the relics together across the entire map. So you are somehow able to dip your fingers into another's relic but not able to share reactants... Doesn't make sense at all. 

I think people objecting on account of saying stuff like "just gather together" is a bit troublesome on these specific missions. However you turn it its going to be more timeconsuming and require the entire community to all suddenly magically realise the right way to play. If we arn't understanding the problem and making the right decisions now, how would not changing it possibly enforce a better strategy?Let me repeat that for those logically impaired, ppl are currently playing it "incorrectly" which means the current way it works isn't teaching ppl how to play correctly, thus we might aswell change it with an added bonus of making some annoying missiontypes more convenient.

Maybe the whole reactant thing could be overhauled as a "reversed survival-kind life support". You start mission with a fissure timer, going slowly down over time, and every corrupted enemies would drop some reactant capsules, speeding up the process ; and when the timer reach zero, the whole squad get the fissure buff and can extract to get the loot. That way, not only it could guarantee opening the relic within a set time to make sure that if spawns broke or spread somehow, if you skipped too many enemies or if you couldn't kill them, you'd still manage to get your relic cracked eventually ; and it would also favorize team cooperation in killing enemies and collecting their loot, wherever they are.

[vixenpixel]

21 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Maybe the whole reactant thing could be overhauled as a "reversed survival-kind life support". You start mission with a fissure timer, going slowly down over time, and every corrupted enemies would drop some reactant capsules, speeding up the process ; and when the timer reach zero, the whole squad get the fissure buff and can extract to get the loot. That way, not only it could guarantee opening the relic within a set time to make sure that if spawns broke or spread somehow, if you skipped too many enemies or if you couldn't kill them, you'd still manage to get your relic cracked eventually ; and it would also favorize team cooperation in killing enemies and collecting their loot, wherever they are.

Another thing would be interesting to see would be some sortof story incentive around the void fissures.

The void is piercing the veil and corrupting enemies and areas but we go there just to crack relics. For profit essentially. I dunno, seems to me we should go there to shut that rap-tap-tap up. And while we're on that, a bit of creepy ambience would be nice. Like a complete narrative overhaul of relic runs. Maybe for the diamond path, yeah? ☺️

[dwqrf]

il y a 14 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

The void is piercing the veil and corrupting enemies and areas but we go there just to crack relics. For profit essentially. I dunno, seems to me we should go there to shut that rap-tap-tap up. And while we're on that, a bit of creepy ambience would be nice. Like a complete narrative overhaul of relic runs. Maybe for the diamond path, yeah? ☺️

The Void Corrupted needs a overhaul to be more Voidy (Zariman-like) than just Orokined with mind control (too much like Narmer) ; but as much as I like this concept, I'm scared of the twisted result from the minds of DE's artists, as featured in the haunted Zariman. Thrax variations of Corpus and Infested aren't a great sight in my mind 😱

Edit : That would definitely separate Orokin Corrupted and Void Corrupted, both as factions and as skins.

Edited September 5 by dwqrf

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

3 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

It's true on spy missions for sure. Also excavation is massively inconvenienced by this imo. I would not mind a change. It's also logical to share the gathering as you do crack the relics together across the entire map. So you are somehow able to dip your fingers into another's relic but not able to share reactants... Doesn't make sense at all. 

I think people objecting on account of saying stuff like "just gather together" is a bit troublesome on these specific missions. However you turn it its going to be more timeconsuming and require the entire community to all suddenly magically realise the right way to play. If we arn't understanding the problem and making the right decisions now, how would not changing it possibly enforce a better strategy?Let me repeat that for those logically impaired, ppl are currently playing it "incorrectly" which means the current way it works isn't teaching ppl how to play correctly, thus we might aswell change it with an added bonus of making some annoying missiontypes more convenient.

 

This. 

 

If people aren't doing it "the right way" and it's creating inefficiency, why not just change it so they can't do it the "incorrect" way? People are weirdly defending against a QoL buff.