Warframe health damage caps please

[Merkranire]

2 hours ago, dwqrf said:

It was mainly about player's damage, from weapons and spells ; the discrepancies between those two, and the lack of general balance between early/mid/end game weapons. It wasn't really about enemy damage or survivability.

Ah. 

Guess I can check “Players talk about balance like they know what it is and should be while arguing over what makes for difficult or easy gameplay while endlessly pursuing things like g-roll rivens and loading up on unnecessary overkill at cost to pretty much any other way to build and then finding out that the game kind of falls apart like it wasn’t designed for it” off on my bingo card.

I can only assume that the changes to Steel Path’s armour scaling, that everyone knew was wrong before the cap, brought everything in-line a little more with the expectations of players who think everything dying in one hit is good game design?

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, 4thBro said:

-snip-

And... as mentioned... by you, there and in other threads, it can be solved in quite a simple manner. By adding something similar to Grifts in D3. I bet I will get my head chewed off by someone for bringing that up here, but it is true and tested in a game with similarly bonkers damage output and TTL.

Is it perfect? No but it would beat the hell out of the trivial nature of things like Survival and Disruption that only start to scale a wee bit after a long time spent in the modes. In D3 if I know my gear is powerful and my gems are of high level, I will switch up the difficuly for those Grifts in order to both get better loot for my time spent, while also facing more challenging enemies for my state of progress. And those that rather do it slightly easier can do so aswell, with the exception of leveling their gems, which eventually cap out and need higher difficulty to be upgraded. But then again, those that want it easier dont exactly miss out, since they still have those gems at a level fitting for what they wanna do.

So it ends up being a win-win for everyone no matter how a person approaches the game and the endgame.

There is also the map system of PoE that could work, which also comes from a game with bonkers damage and TTL stacking up the more you progress. But the maps counter that by bringing you out of your comfort zone. Sure you can stay in your confined space and accept you get less loot for less effort, but you are still able to take part in all of it none the less, you just play it safer with map mods that suit you and challenge your builds less.

Also I wanna say I read through that other thread and it is amazing how some people shat on you for your opinions. Saying you were selfish for wanting X thing in the game just because it didnt cater to everyone... like every other piece of content we get in WF already. Who many here play Orphix or other RJ modes on a constant basis? I know I dont because they royally suck. I also completely skipped Eidolons and would gladly run arcane-less if they were still the only approach to getting arcanes, since I dont enjoy the LSD souped up rave show in the grass, nor how poorly the camera handles in WF for such giant bosses. If I wanna look up and see ass I'll probably rather go to a strip club.

[Xzorn]

The Circuit does not reflect actual scaling potential. As I mentioned in my first post we beat level cap enemy damage output 6 years ago with 1.4billion eHP. At the time such a group actually struggled to keep their kill rates up but that's not an issue anymore thanks to paper enemies. The reason I quit for 5 years.

eHP tanking was the only way to actually do this at the time.
Saying eHP tanking is bad just means one of two things. Bad group comp or bad frame.

Enemy Damage Scaling is an old flaw that they will never fix because we already essentially beat the game years ago.

[Letter13]

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[Dunkelheit]

Every single frame is very viable for Steel Path, even if you go for an hour in survival.

Not every frame is cut out for lvl 9999. But those are only very few.

Name the frame and I can give you advice how to overcome Steel Path difficulty.

 

[Zakkhar]

6 hours ago, 4thBro said:

If stray pellets from a detron take out 5 stacks of his passive, you're going to go through those stacks really quickly.

If you happen to stand still and not use any other countermeasures. And do not kill/cc your oppontent. 

Also no such thing as stray pellets when your life is on the line.

6 hours ago, 4thBro said:

ou WILL get hit by bullets, especially when overran by Eximuses that you can't CC. Another weird "point."

If you get hit and not get 1shot and you are afraid you may get 1shot out of this level of EHP you need to play safe, take cover. It is up to player to measure and evaluate the risks on the fly and actt accordingly. If a shield gate 300/300 frame gets hit imidiately after shield gate, it also goes down.

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

If you happen to stand still and not use any other countermeasures. And do not kill/cc your oppontent. 

Also no such thing as stray pellets when your life is on the line.

If you get hit and not get 1shot and you are afraid you may get 1shot out of this level of EHP you need to play safe, take cover. It is up to player to measure and evaluate the risks on the fly and actt accordingly. If a shield gate 300/300 frame gets hit imidiately after shield gate, it also goes down.

Yes but that's the point of shield gating. A shield gater only takes a single instance of damage once every ~1.5 seconds, literally no matter what. Twenty million enemies? One instance of damage every 1.5 seconds.

But a Health tank? Just a couple enemies could detron you for 12 instances of damage in a single second. And it keeps coming without mercy. Without breaks.

 

You can "evade," and if we generously assume you're just literally always moving, you're still going to absorb shots that "missed" your original location and went towards your new one, which happens a lot. You really can't assume you can dodge everything always, while CC'ing everything 360 degrees around you in a 40m radius at all times.

 

Relying on any form of avoidance, other than invisibility, is a mistake waiting to happen.

[Zakkhar]

24 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Relying on any form of avoidance, other than invisibility, is a mistake waiting to happen.

What is stopping you from relying on Invisibility though? They havent patched the "performing a series of specific parkour movements" to grant any frame with a Sentinel Companion a recastable Invisibility yet.

24 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Twenty million enemies?

I did not realise Nidus Larva has enemy limit. I guess twenty milion is a lot.

Edited September 21 by Zakkhar

[4thBro]

Larva has a range limit. And duration window. And doesn't hit Exi's.

 

I have no idea what your first paragraph means, sorry.

[Merkranire]

Topics like this raise questions for me.

Like; at what point is someone supposed to die as a player? Steel Path’s scaling is, for all intents and purposes, scaling into the infinite, and most of the range of levels it covers has things like 4-player spawns for one player (which is going to, unsurprisingly, influence survivability) and is clearly out of range of the actual meat of the game which starts at about level 15 and ends at, what, like 400 before the modifiers that SP slaps on? (I’ve lost track).

Yet 9999, representative of the infinite and the devs just never bothered to actually try scaling into infinity thinking people are already out of range before a player even hits 1k; 9999 is considered default or something? As if someone should be able to survive that far?

[4thBro]

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Topics like this raise questions for me.

Like; at what point is someone supposed to die as a player? Steel Path’s scaling is, for all intents and purposes, scaling into the infinite, and most of the range of levels it covers has things like 4-player spawns for one player (which is going to, unsurprisingly, influence survivability) and is clearly out of range of the actual meat of the game which starts at about level 15 and ends at, what, like 400 before the modifiers that SP slaps on? (I’ve lost track).

Yet 9999, representative of the infinite and the devs just never bothered to actually try scaling into infinity thinking people are already out of range before a player even hits 1k; 9999 is considered default or something? As if someone should be able to survive that far?

Expected to be able to survive level 9999's? No, not at all. The game NEVER demands that you're able to do that.

 

However, that's the crux of it.

The game doesn't really demand much of you at all. Players are left scrounging around, looking for ways to make it all mean anything. Why are we mastering our builds, if we can clear the entire game just 15% into our potential?

 

-That just gave me an idea for a video.

[Merkranire]

32 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Expected to be able to survive level 9999's? No, not at all. The game NEVER demands that you're able to do that.

 

However, that's the crux of it.

The game doesn't really demand much of you at all. Players are left scrounging around, looking for ways to make it all mean anything. Why are we mastering our builds, if we can clear the entire game just 15% into our potential?

 

-That just gave me an idea for a video.

You mean your build’s potential, since at some point the build outshines the player and my dead grandma can wipe the map with the amount of unnecessary overkill that players suggest for content that will never be designed for it because grandma decides that instead of doing level 400 content, she’s going to do level 80 with the same build.

You want something to master, you need to stop with the idea of living in the one way to build, and then, even worse, expecting the game to be designed around the one way to build that the meta players insist you play. You got every build and loadout you can make from the modless start using whatever components you want to combine and take across the entire spectrum of levels and content in the game, you’re inevitably going to find a point where a build/loadout gets pushed and you the player need to step in otherwise you die.

Which is part of why the discussion around difficulty is so fragmented and poorly articulated; for starters, are the players engaging in the discussion even aware of what they’re actually built for and why some players have a rough go of it while others breeze through the same content? I half-jokingly posit the idea of DE just straight up removing the notion of player health and enemy damage, but when someone builds like they’re going to level cap and then jumps into a level 60 mission, it understandably plays out like DE might as well not have bothered with the notion of designing gameplay

[4thBro]

 

[Merkranire]

Wait, S#&$, I just remembered that the game’s going the way of the community.

The options to do something other than cookie click seem to be diminishing, so I guess in due time you‘ll be even more out of luck, @4thBro. Which means you can ignore what I said

Edited September 22 by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

13 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

 

Is this representing something intrinsic to the player…? ‘Cause I’ve got news for you