February 14Th: Community Hot Topics!

[Llyssa]

They didn't mention "lower eviscerator proc % chance" as an option for tweaking them... That would be like, y'know, the easy one.

[tmtke]

Please, no new resistance mod! We already have steel fiber, maybe it's value can be used somehow in the calculations against physical damage instead of just being a virtual health pool. That means it would not eliminate the effect overall, just reduce the impact.

For example shield comes first, it's protecting against slash damage better than puncture damage and least against impact damage. There is a chance based on that the attack hit through. If not, it only reduces shield, on the other hand damage comes to armor on top of that. Armor is the best against slash, less against puncture, least against impact. Another check against proc chance, but the damage is already lowered by shield to some extent. If the damage/proc reaches the body, it should be applied (slash > puncture > impact, but shields and armor were already weakened the effect.

Conclusion: fully healed frames will have a lower chance to get the procs through, and needs skill to avoid/cover/recharge. If you're stupid enough to facetank a dangerous enemy, you'll be bleeding as you do now instantly.

[mcKentucky]

Is it viable to give keys as additional reward instead of taking place for prime parts? Like 20% chance or so. Giving keys as reward really help people like me, who only do void for credits and treasure room.

[FreshKid]

frost snowglobe......the leader has a better one, his one is mobile, and for an imitation it is somewhat better, why not make the globe mobile like the leaders'?

Edited February 15, 2014 by FreshKid

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

and DE still doesnt acknowledge the fact bleeding proc is a widespread bad mechanic and isnt exclusive the to eviscerators, so the only "good" solution on the list is the first(make bleed only proc with shields down). the 2nd could work too, but just look at how many people actually uses resistances mods, EVEN after they got buffed, even the 60% doesnt outweigh the fact it's too situational.

Bleed proc breaks core mechanic of how shields/hp work. Possible solutions: redesign entire system from scratch, or make bleed proc only apply when shields are down. Possibly when shields are below 10%, so that you need to plan in advance that against bleed-proc capable enemies you can't let your shield get low.

Problem with resistance mods is simple. If it can't give immunity it's not worth bothering with. Period. If you can't get 100% poison immunity you better off maxing health and thinking of healing options. There is no point in fire resistance mod if you still can take fire damage. You better off stacking more shields. The way game is set now it's 100% or bust.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

None of these options are great, but the second is the best of the lot.

 

The first destroys bleeds primary purpose of being a countermeasure to the "Just stack shields 100% of the time" problem where it's always, 100% of the time better to add shields then health.  It's a waste of a potentially useful mechanic, and just turns us right back to always stack shields.

 

Two isn't quite so bad, though it's only really viable if it's an anti-bleed only mod, and it maxxes at 100% bleed resistance.  At least this way, if you choose to stack shields versus health, you have to either choose to use another mod slot to prevent sudden bleed death, or risk it.  I'm not thrilled with the idea, but it's far better then going back to no-brain loadouts in the first option.

 

Three and four only address Eviscerators, and there are too many other ways to bleed for that to really be a solution to anything.

 

I still very much think the proper solution is to make a quick-building 10 pack of a consumable item that stops bleeding instantly when used.  That adds another element of skill to the game - reaction time to use your bandages when you start to bleed, and would give another resource sink (I'm looking at you, nano-spores).  Health stays more relevant then pre-status effects, since your reaction time might or might not be enough to save you.  Can even add a mod that automatically uses bandages if you have them and you start bleeding - another element of player preference in loadouts.

 

But please, don't make shields a countermeasure.  Bleed is paper to the shield-stackers rock.  Don't make rock beat paper.

I am sorry but I have to thoroughly disagree here. Whenever you design a system where you have non-regenerating HP and regenerating shields it is always stacking more shields. Health in case of such system is essentially a margin for error. You may look at it as a version of intruder mod for hacking. Intruder mod adds margin for error, so if you're good you'll never use it (although hacking and this mod is imbalanced - mod adds too little and hacking is very easy, but that's another thing entirely). This is what health should be. If you can avoid taking a beating in the face, you should be able to ignore HP.

The alternative is to rework the entire health system with new mechanics for obtaining health.

This is NOT a hardcore RPG like Dark Souls. It's a casual action game about space ninjas. You can't make a cow into a deer by starving it to death and you can't make a casual game better by adding mechanics from entirely different game genres/game types.

This is what REALLY grinds my gears. People are crying for things that are not fit for this game. 

[(PSN)WarlordSieck]

 

Exclusive Weapons

As we've stated recently, old/exclusive weapons that have been put into the Vault always have a chance at being redistributed. Steve may have slipped the words ‘Grineer Death Squad’ during Devstream #22.

 

 

Please do not redistribute event weapons. We the players that were here and EARNED them deserve to have our efforts honored for all time. It should not matter how many people complain about it, or how much money they offer to throw at the game.

 

IF you do release event weapons again - Then it's only fair that you release the original prime set as well..

 

Founders would not like that just as players would not like their efforts having been cast aside earning their REWARDS. No special favor to appease players that came late to the game. 

 

 

 

 

Calm down. Think of them as timed exclusives. You have had them for like 4 months and you have been holding them in our faces bragging for long enough, so now it's our turn to have some fun. Plus it's not like we're not going to have to work for them. We're probably going to have to work our asses off for them. Another thing us PS4 players never had a chance at these weapons and no we can finally have a chance at them. Also, your comparison with Founders stuff makes no sense. 1) they never said that weapons like Brakk would never be released again 2) they did however say Founders items would never be released since the Founders had to pay TWO HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS for them. It's pretty obvious why its fair to bring weapons like Brakk back but not founders.

Edited February 15, 2014 by (PS4)WarlordSieck

[Valiant]

 

IF you do release event weapons again - Then it's only fair that you release the original prime set as well..

Nonsense. Pure nonsense. Different circumstances and situation. 

 

Yet another PSN member thinking Founders gear should be free for all. 

[Karzak]

Meele 2.0 seems to become a U13 release

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Nonsense. Pure nonsense. Different circumstances and situation. 

 

Yet another PSN member thinking Founders gear should be free for all. 

Who said free? Nobody. You've been promised that Founders gear can only be acquired from $250 ($300) Founders package. I said before and will say that again that not offering this $300 pack on PS4 was absolutely disgusting move. But as long as they patch mentions of those items out of PS4 version codex it's not too outrageous.

P.S. Of course offering those items for Platinum, in cheaper packs or just in game would be unacceptable. This goes without saying, duh.

Edited February 15, 2014 by (PS4)Lord_Gremlin

[JerryMouse13]

In my personal opinion getting higher ranked keys in things like survival, and defense are fine, but in non-endless missions it's just down right sinister. It's basically RNG trolling you by saying 'good...good, you made a fine effort...now do it again *evil laugh*'.

 

In endless missions you have the option of continuing to fight for something else, but otherwise you've basically just done any other mission with a good credit reward.

 

 

Regarding Evicerators I'd personally remove the bleed proc while shielded, and slow firing speed. The problem right now is that not only to they proc a powerful status effect that ignores most Warframe's primary defense, but that they can quickly saturate a room with high damage, bouncing projectiles. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by JerryMouse13

[Valiant]

Who said free? Nobody. You've been promised that Founders gear can only be acquired from $250 ($300) Founders package. I said before and will say that again that not offering this $300 pack on PS4 was absolutely disgusting move. But as long as they patch mentions of those items out of PS4 version codex it's not too outrageous.

P.S. Of course offering those items for Platinum, in cheaper packs or just in game would be unacceptable. This goes without saying, duh.

Free for all - anyone can get, money/packages or not. PS4 was late to the party. End of. It's not disgusting it's a fact and that's it. PC was the first beta platform so it's natural it had the founders package available to it. I don't see why PS4 users always have to complain about it.

 

It is outrageous to ever add the Founders gear in the future. It's insulting to ask for it to return as well. Event weapons and Founders gear are quite different and should not be compared. 

[[DE]Megan]

It's clear from this thread that adding a Mod to help lessen bleed proc is not the solution. Seeing that Bleed Proc is more of an overall issue than just from Eviscerators is noted. Seems to be that tweaking Bleed Proc as a whole is what will alleviate some issues.

The suggestion to change Bleed Proc to occur only when your shields are down seem to be the favoured option.

Will continue to read feedback as this discussion progresses, thanks!

[goatwithbenefits]

Bleed proc is all good and discussed now, but what about the rest of the topics to be discussed? Void drops, rather importantly. Is this whole game of reorganizing loot tables going to go on until we have so much Prime gear that the loot tables for Void and Derelict end up being several pages long?

 

Loot tables for Void and Derelict need to be gone one day or another and a token system as its replacement already is the more logical, less frustrating solution to the Void. Afraid of players stockpiling tokens for the next update? Introduce a cap for accumulated tokens. It can't be that hard.

Edited February 15, 2014 by goatwithbenefits

[Azure_Kytia]

I'd simply rather if slash damage capped at 10% health, and didn't affect you if lower than that.

[Nkomo-Sama]

 

Melee 2.0 Progress!

Geoff has been knee deep in Melee 2.0. I tracked him down and asked for a progress update:

 

Code still needs to do a pass on AI and their actions with the new melee system.

Animation currently is struggling to get the parry system to feel right; it needs to have actions without being too "flashy". Also finishing up transition attack animations that we’re testing out.

Movement set is complete.

The big concern right now is getting everything in and functioning so we have time for a polish pass. It’s getting tight in that regard.

[Nkomo-Sama]

It's clear from this thread that adding a Mod to help lessen bleed proc is not the solution. Seeing that Bleed Proc is more of an overall issue than just from Eviscerators is noted. Seems to be that tweaking Bleed Proc as a whole is what will alleviate some issues.

The suggestion to change Bleed Proc to occur only when your shields are down seem to be the favoured option.

Agreed.

[NikolaiLev]

The suggestion to change Bleed Proc to occur only when your shields are down seem to be the favoured option.

 

This saddens me, because this utterly gets rid of the point of bleed.  It's there to make sure stacking shields isn't the one optimal solution.

 

The best solution from my point of view is to change the way bleed procs do damage; eviscerator procs just do too much damage.  As for other enemies, they do chip damage at best and incentivize Not Getting Hit.  It'd help if the game fostered more avoidance tactics than it does, though.

[ragdollomega]

Frost is still a hot discussion as we eagerly await the potential change to Snowglobe. Scott is continually looking at Feedback for that perfect solution.

Maybe Scott can look at more than just Snowglobe. If he manages to fix it, but doesn't fix the other abilities (even one would be great) then we are sitting at the same problem Frost has always had. Adding arbitrary damage numbers that fall off has never helped him and DE has tried this (if memory serves me right) three times now. There have been many threads, for a very long time now, that pop up with great ideas on how to help Freeze, Ice Wave, and Avalanche, but these pleas to make meaningful changes to them seem to fall on deaf ears.

[AhziDahaka]

It's clear from this thread that adding a Mod to help lessen bleed proc is not the solution. Seeing that Bleed Proc is more of an overall issue than just from Eviscerators is noted. Seems to be that tweaking Bleed Proc as a whole is what will alleviate some issues.

The suggestion to change Bleed Proc to occur only when your shields are down seem to be the favoured option.

Will continue to read feedback as this discussion progresses, thanks!

 

The thing about bleed is that it works well when it's a small amount of damage each tick.  It makes it so a player can't just slap huge shields on their frame and then ignore their health all the time.  When it goes wrong is when the bleed takes out a quarter of your health per tick--most commonly from eviscerators.  That is just a straight-up death sentence.

 

What bleed needs to do is take away a set percentage of health per tick, regardless of the source.  This would make it manageable as a status inflicted on the player while at the same time keeping it useful against enemies of all levels.

[Sirabot]

will the HEK get a much needed model update with the boss Vay Hek? Because let's face it... the Hek shotgun looks outdated, it's model is bland, and it's texture is falling out of line with the rest of the weapons in game.

[leonvision]

It's clear from this thread that adding a Mod to help lessen bleed proc is not the solution. Seeing that Bleed Proc is more of an overall issue than just from Eviscerators is noted. Seems to be that tweaking Bleed Proc as a whole is what will alleviate some issues.

The suggestion to change Bleed Proc to occur only when your shields are down seem to be the favoured option.

Will continue to read feedback as this discussion progresses, thanks!

 

not to sound ungrateful you listened or anything, but at some point, we need to stop discussing, and act and solve the issue.

[Mak_Gohae]

This saddens me, because this utterly gets rid of the point of bleed.  It's there to make sure stacking shields isn't the one optimal solution.

 

The best solution from my point of view is to change the way bleed procs do damage; eviscerator procs just do too much damage.  As for other enemies, they do chip damage at best and incentivize Not Getting Hit.  It'd help if the game fostered more avoidance tactics than it does, though.

 

Yeah, since a standard build is to load up on shields if the proc only goes off when shields are down then people are going to basically do nothing since there is going to be little effect to what they are currently doing. And, yes again, you got to get people doing something other than loading up on shields then mowing stuff down.

 

A mod would give folks a chance to start developing some of that "avoidance tactic" that after some playing they can develop until they feel comfortable without it.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Yeah, since a standard build is to load up on shields if the proc only goes off when shields are down then people are going to basically do nothing since there is going to be little effect to what they are currently doing. And, yes again, you got to get people doing something other than loading up on shields then mowing stuff down.

 

A mod would give folks a chance to start developing some of that "avoidance tactic" that after some playing they can develop until they feel comfortable without it.

Again, the "make it a mod" thing only works if we get an overhaul of the mod system to have X slots of each type, otherwise it'll be like the resistance mods, or stamina mods. Some little gimmick that could be a nice thing to have, loses out to the more practical things.

 

I.e. warm coat (if it was even buffed to say, 10% each level) would be nice, but it wouldn't be as effective as straight +HP, or +shields.

[Mak_Gohae]

Again, the "make it a mod" thing only works if we get an overhaul of the mod system to have X slots of each type, otherwise it'll be like the resistance mods, or stamina mods. Some little gimmick that could be a nice thing to have, loses out to the more practical things.

 

I.e. warm coat (if it was even buffed to say, 10% each level) would be nice, but it wouldn't be as effective as straight +HP, or +shields.

 

There is no need of an overhaul of the mod system. People just need to stop using the same exact build over and over on every frame. The mod system is a give-and-take thing but there's a group of people that dont want to give, they just want to stay with one thing and not adjust, they want the game to adjust to them. And with that thinking there shouldn't be a mod system because they are even bothering to use it.

 

This is why the "proc on shields off" solution is the favorable one, with this solution that group of people dont need to do anything. There's no need to adjust or react to the enemy, just continue shooting and everything is fine. And on top of all of that if these folks have Sentinels then they will likely have a Guardian mod which means the chances of that proc ever actually coming into play are very low. 

 

The main problem with warm coat is that..... what enemy uses ice damage? Do any normal unit actually hits for ice?