New Player Experience Is Bananas.

[sewens]

It could be DE trying to "pan out" the gameplay by making it take longer to get certain mods, therefore giving out more goals.

 

I cant say I like it. Progression is one thing but this sounds like just padding.

[OldGodKing]

I was a close-beta player before I went on a long hiatus. (Warframe didn't interest me much back then)

But I recently came back right around the time Dmg 2.0 came out and I personally didn't have any problems with the ranking tests up until test 8 recently. I managed to get through Venus for my Rhino parts but the only true roadblock for me a few months back was Earth.

 

This was when they had changed Earth to the current forest tile-set and for some reason, the difficulty spike just went up exponentially.

I couldn't most of the maps because of those damn Hellions. But I managed to clear Earth after building my Boltor.

The enemies on the forest tiles were a lot more difficult than the ones on Vay Hek's map for some weird reason. You'd think soldiers or guards sent to protect an important VIP would be some of the best. But nope.

 

As for mods, I could definitely notice the lack of drops. Especially the common ones.

I didn't see my first Serration until after 3 months of playing the game and it happened to be a random drop on Apollodorus, Mercury.

That was when I knew that survivals were the right way to go for my newbie &#! to farm for vital mods. I also got my first Hornet Strike on Lares, Mercury as the wave 10 reward. Up till that point, my weapons did &!$$ poor damage. Even though I did do my part in PUGs, I always had the lowest damage dealt in any mission with better players. Gotta say that it really dampened my spirits to continue playing since it didn't feel worthwhile.

 

And this was around the time of the Darvo rescue missions when there would be plat discounts on item purchases so I bought the Paladin bundle and tbh, it was a lifesaver. Even without Serration, the Karak carried me all the way from Mars, Saturn and Jupiter allowing me to get the materials necessary for my Rhino. And now my Rhino has been polarized 4 times.

Edited March 19, 2014 by AxialBlue

[--MANA--]

"Is Banana".... O.O.... BANANA!!

 

[KingTaro]

It's terrifying to be honest. I didn't really understand how bad it was until I also made a new account.

When people complained about a bad beginner's experience, I thought bad in the sense of how mine was back in closed beta.

 

The reason why it wasn't so bad during the Close Beta is probably, because back in the days we could progress very well without a single mod.

The skill-tree allowed us to gain power without mods: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Upgrades.

But the current power progression system completely depends on the RNG.

 

But who knows, DE might be working on some lore missions where NPC's will be rewarding us with crucial mods as we complete those story quests.

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

I can't even imagine how hard it is for baby Tennos now. When I first started, we couldn't sell multiples of items like blueprints or Seer parts, but we could still progress and do damage. I run mostly just Survivals now, so I get a good number of Serrations, Hornet Strikes, and Point Blanks and I give those out for free to help people. I haven't even tried Interception yet.

[Deidaku]

I know !!!

 

THey should just gift to new players very basic mods like serration and hornet strike  and  3 elemental mods ( fire , ice , shock) but unranked with a few fusion cores to get started.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Deidaku

[Etsoree]

I don't understand why people think it's hard.

 

Only when you get to Interception missions does it get hard.

[dashashou]

Remember that your coming into the game knowing things , when to duck, when to switch guns to conserve ammo, the sliding slash , the copperting your comming into this game with skills that new players won't have  .

 

It really does feel without vet player help NO one would power though to get to the mid game  . IF  a vet on a new frames has a diff time  and considers the task herculean  a new play would justifiably stop playing .   

[CatScratch]

This thread made me wanna do new account to feel like a newbie again :D 

[Ziegrif]

We need a mod shop for essential mods.

Or integrate Serration into how a gun grows in level.

[Rakosta_Kai]

I don't understand why people think it's hard.

 

Only when you get to Interception missions does it get hard.

It's hard earlier on now. It's really does get Bananas around Venus. the starter weapon got nerfed and are balanced toward slash damage.

The money that the Lotus gives is a help, but then you are dealing with unranked weapons unless you redo mercury to level them up.

And killing Vor with the MK-1 and the Lato with absolutely no intel on his powers and abilities is, to say the least, hilarious. Which you have to do in order to get that extra money.

It's painful.

[Drakontis]

I don't understand why people think it's hard.

 

Only when you get to Interception missions does it get hard.

I don't have serration, I don't have any decent mods to speak of, and I'm using Loki. I didn't think it would be THIS BAD. 

Also, half of the problem is the random mobs Serration drops from

Grineer Scorpion (I don't even know when you first start find those...)

Nauseous Crawler (AHAHAHAAA)

Electric Crawler (AHAHAHAAA)

Stalker (Yeah... RIGHT.)

So not only is it an uncommon mod (It should be common just due to how necessary it is.) but it drops from only ONE enemy that you could consider even remotely "common" and the other two are almost non-existent with how rarely they spawn and they have a ZERO percent chance of being anywhere near new players. It's like a poorly written joke. Of the things that should be changed, this should be one of them. 

The enemy specific drop tables, I am convinced, are basically half the problem here. Not to mention the fact that all of these enemies also drop fusion cores. It's just... stupid. 

[Babellon]

Made a new account about a week ago. Played to earth, had some people help me grind rhino bp parts from jackal; by the time i got to jackal I was level 12 or so, I never would of beaten him solo. The rhino parts need mats from 3 other planets (earth,saturn,neptune) and if i wanted to just grind for it, i can see a new player spending months trying to get there. Earth is almost unpassable with only a MK1 and a exscalibur under lvl 20. 

 

Yes,, id say the new player experience definately needs to be looked at. its not plausible at all. (Oh look I got rhino parts)<thats nice, you cant build it till you hit 4 other planets, and mats which have exceptionally low drop rates. (oh look  i got this karak i can buy and build), thats nice, you still have to survive  till earth to be able to build it.  I already played for about 2 months, and to be honest, I began to resent the game from a new player perspective. I  wouldn't even give it a second look if i had to seriously do all that over again from the beginning, with no former knowledge of the game, or the system in general.

 

The only reason i got the other account to the point i did is because is spent 100$ buying various things that made my life easier. but seriously, 100$ in a months play time. games not worth that on a regular basis. if I had it to do all over again. Not a chance.

 

no story, no direction, no real purpose. same maps run repeatedly, same missions, same outcomes. extremely low drop rates. Long wait times for crafted items. expensive item shop, all make for a game that might just implode on itself if its not careful.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Babell

[Justin_Case001]

I'm not really sure what the answer to this dilema is.  DE has been tending to cater to veterans because those are the people who are on the forums the most asking for more challenge.  When I first started, (just before U7, I believe), I played solo a lot.  I also played a lot with one buddy, who started at the same time as me, and was at the same level.  It was quite reasonable.  In fact, I made my first new frame, Ember, almost entirely solo.  I didn't really start playing in online groups until I was fairly strong.

 

But now...well, it seems that the only way for a new player to really get their foot in the door is to get rushed, Diablo II style.  Have a high level party take them to void and ODD and such, rank them up, give them mods, etc.  But that shouldn't be the only way you can play.  It's meant to be a co-op game, but it should be reasonable for newbies or low level parties.  I haven't tried making a new account, so I can't say firsthand if, or how, insane it is atm.  I do know that I did farm a lot when I was first starting out.  You can't expect to just play every mission once and keep moving forward to the next system.  This game, like Diablo, is all about replaying missions bunches of times to level up.  Perhaps that is part of the problem for newers players.  Maybe they expect to just burn through the systems too quickly.

[Neutralred]

If they're trying to give veterans a challenge then why are they mucking around with the third planet, which gates access to three others? It makes no sense at all.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[seren77]

basic mods should be available in the market place for credits

[Noble_Cactus]

I gave one of my friends who started out Serration, Hornet Strike, and Stormbringer the other day (he has a clan and has been playing for about two weeks now). I told him that they were necessary mods but they were hard to find for some reason. His response was something along the lines of "Well, that's dumb." New players aren't happy when they find out how hard it is to close the gap between them and the guy who passed Earth.

 

I see many are suggesting new players receive the damage mods free or almost free to alleviate the problems with enemy scaling, and it feels like it's a good idea at first, but... I can't shake the feeling that the fact those mods are so utterly necessary means something went wrong somewhere.

 

Yup. This isn't just an issue with the beginner experience (though being a new player certainly does really suck right now). Rather, the 'beginner wall' points at greater issues in the game. Certain hard-to-find mods are necessary and take a lot of resources just to make decent. Once the 'beginner wall is overcome, there's just not a whole lot to do besides run some Void, run some long defense/survival, get a few more Mastery Ranks. That's it. It's another in a long list of symptoms of DE's design choices, and it needs a good hard review by the devs.

 

In any case, topics like these give me faith in the WF community. It... wanes, sometimes.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[MagPrime]

Turn Mercury into a tutorial planet.

 

I apologize in advance for the length.  I don't know how to do the spoiler tabs.

 

Terminus (Exterminate) - Bust out of the cryopod, watch the NPC 'frames fight Vor while you look for weapons and  then join the fight.  Vor escapes and you finish off the rest of his body guards.  This mission would teach the new player how to use Primary, Secondary, Melee and 'frame abilities as well as the health/energy orbs.  Redirection mod as mission reward.

 

M Prime (Sabotage) - Still blow things up, but also go over destroyable objects, i.e. crates, barrels, openable lockers and windows.  Vitality mod as mission reward.

 

Caloris (Capture) - Capture two targets.  Explain what "High flight risk means" Let the first one be stupid fast, gets away 1/2 of the time, second target gets captured.  Teaches the players that they can still finish the mission with one capture.  (Had a newbie freak and leave after the first target got away)  Serration mod as mission reward. 

 

Elion (Mobile Defense) - Lotus explains that the mobs are there to attack the computer.  Explain the difference between Mobile Defense and regular Defense. Maybe pull the "Change of plans" bit and start out as a Defense, then go Mobile. (Failed my first time, didn't know how.  Took two more runs before I realized the terminal had a life bar.)  Hornet Strike mod reward.

 

Lares (Defense) - Change into tutorial on how to build new weapons, change appearance, fusing mods and installing catalyst. and put at the end of tutorial. (after Tolstoj)  First mission reward outside of Mercury gets you an aura card.

 

Apollodorus (Survival) - Lock the life support capsules so they can't turn them on unless air is below 75%, Lotus explains that PLS drops provide air for the entire team, using abilities or sprinting does not drain LS.  (I hate those rumors.) Melee mod reward?

 

Tolstoj (Assassinate) - Keep this one as is.  After Terminus, the new players would have a better idea of how to fight Vor.  Explain that they have to fight him three or more times to get the new weapon drops.  Seer and Cronus guaranteed drops, no repeat BP's.  

 

All starter frames come with catalyst installed.  To help players learn about the three beginner frames - first mission, new player loads in as an Excal.  Second/Third, Loki. Third, Mag.  Lotus explains all the powers and suggests how to use them.  By the last mission the new player should have an idea of which 'frame they want to start with, and that's the one they fight Vor on.  Also, all tutorial frames have all four powers.

 

Having those second tier weapons does make a difference.  On my new account I couldn't make the Seer because it requires two raw potatos, a rare resource that doesn't show up for how many planets?  No new player is going to know where to find that.  

 

No TL;DR.

[VanFanel1980mx]

I've been hearing the same thing for quite some time from a lot of people. They really need to figure out a simple and straight forward way for new players to acquire the important mods like serration and hornet strike consistently and quickly. Maybe make it so every new player starts with one of each type of basic damage mods (Serration hornet strike and pressure point) in their inventory. Would that be so hard to set up?

Some smartglass person will say this sooner or later so I will do it... "it is called the market, you know, you can buy mods with platinum", of course, you may guess how I would feel about that kind of answer.

[dashashou]

honestly a planetary roolback to up date 7  back then they had scaling . it worked i think everyone agrees  the game in it's current form doesn't work at lease for new players .  and seeing as how there stealing ideas from diablo mabe various difficulty levels/ universes / chapters  for higher rankers

[Monolake]

What did change? I saw you mentioned mod drops, but what exactly did change about mods? The drop rates?

 

One more question, for anyone who has made a new account to test new player experience: is the lack of infested missions a good thing or bad thing? I'm asking this because it's something I remember very clearly from when I started playing. I had to do the infested missions over and over again because every time an Ancient Toxic showed up, I died. I managed to complete those missions by getting out of range and sniping Toxics with my Lato. But it didn't always work.

Bad. Infested are the easiest faction - I could do infested survival(dont remember if it was on Venus or Saturn) for 20 min with my Excalinoob just slash-dashing them. And ancients drop Hornet Strike (I had Hornet long before Serration when I started)

[Monolake]

Turn Mercury into a tutorial planet.

 

....

 

All starter frames come with catalyst installed.  To help players learn about the three beginner frames - first mission, new player loads in as an Excal.  Second/Third, Loki. Third, Mag.  Lotus explains all the powers and suggests how to use them.  By the last mission the new player should have an idea of which 'frame they want to start with, and that's the one they fight Vor on.  Also, all tutorial frames have all four powers.

 

Having those second tier weapons does make a difference.  On my new account I couldn't make the Seer because it requires two raw potatos, a rare resource that doesn't show up for how many planets?  No new player is going to know where to find that.  

 

No TL;DR.

 

Yes, this is how good games do it - teach by play, help new players grow in small steady steps. And thats what DE should do to the starting planet. Also all the functionality is already in the game - they could alert/message system to guide new players, give them quests and approprite rewards (for example every new player gets a one-time alert for a damage mod)

The holo-graphic maps that are used for mastery tests can be used for training too.

"test-drive" for all starting frames could also be very nice. Dont agree they should come with a reactor already, but a free less-useful aura (like scavenger one) would do it to give low rank frames some extra mod points.

 

One good improvement they did recently was granting more credits after Vor assassination and lowering the price of some weapons - you can easily buy Strun for example right at the end of Mercury for only 24k and fight Corpus with it. Lotus even sends you a message saying you should go buy some better guns. 

Edited March 19, 2014 by Monolake

[MagPrime]

Yes, this is how good games do it - teach by play, help new players grow in small steady steps. And thats what DE should do to the starting area. 

"test-drive" for all starting frames could also be very nice. Dont agree they should come with a reactor already, but a free less-useful aura (like scavenger one) would do it to give low rank frames some extra mod points.

 

One good improvement they did recently was granting more credits after Vor assassination and lowering the price of some weapons - you can easily buy Strun for example right at the end of Mercury for only 24k and fight Corpus with it. Lotus even sends you a message saying you should go buy some better guns. 

The reason for pre-installed reactor (not catalyst, sorry.) is for longevity.  

 

Vor's 25k reward is nice, but I spent it on ranking up a couple of my mods instead of purchasing a weapon that I had no resources to build. 

[fatpig84]

By nerfing the Lato and Mk1 Braton.

Starting the game was pretty darn harsh.

 

However I have done my own fair share of starter solo games, so it is workable...

Just kinda rough. But even then do the newbies can use more help.

 

Earth is particularly dangerous right now without any damage mods.

Edited March 19, 2014 by fatpig84