Thoughts On Founder Exclusivity

[DiBBz]

Now you're being almost as bad as Yezzik.  Even causal PvP needs some semblance of balance and competitveness in order for it to be worth playing, no one ever said anything about esports.

what PvP ? last i heard when conclaves made an appearance it was all popular until a couple months later it all died and feel apart , so much whining and complaining from the community back then to get PvP and no one even uses it because well DE are more focused PvE side of the game as well as new features etc

 

they should seriously just removed conclaves

[Mirriky]

Not a bad idea but I think the devs should release something everyone to get ps4 and PC that's exclusive for a certain amount of time and we would be able to get maybe a different version of Excalibur maybe corrupted Excalibur.

 

We literally just got this with the 1 year beta anniversary

I was so hoping people would be satisfied with this

Founders paid a lot to support the game in its early (or close enough) stages and got some loot for it

Everyone playing at the one year mark, both PC and PS4, get a chance to buy an exclusive Excalibur skin and a free exclusive weapon that is quite useful

This is the greatest compromise DE could possibly make. Please stop making these posts, it's just tiring to see and it will never be accessible again.

 

I missed out on all the vandal equipment which I would love to have and use but I accept that and move on.

[PoorCensored]

This is all very true.

...

This argument has been raised several times, and each time DE has given their decision. 

 

The problem is, as far as I can tell, no matter what DE does (or doesn't) do, someone's going to be unhappy, and some of them are going to complain - probably until the game finally goes way - and maybe even after. TF2 gave out the Cheater's Lament about 5 years ago, and I still know people who are upset about the situation - on both sides.

 

Seeing this issue come up again and again, no matter what DE does, is something the community might have to deal with.

 

Some people have mentioned thread locks and bans as a solution - but I think that will just start alienating parts of the player base - but maybe parts of the player base will get alienated by the infighting. I don't know.

 

 

Lengthy reply for Obenebris:

 

Grand Masters, the highest Founders, get 12,000 more Mastery XP. 6000 from Excal Prime and then 3000 each from Skana Prime and Lato Prime. That's barely anything once you start getting into the higher ranks.

 

If you total up all the exclusive content, it starts to become significant. I'm personally against *all* exclusive content.

 

 

I've always only gotten 4 Revives a day. When I first started playing I got 4 Revives per frame per day. I still only get 4/frame/day.

 

Founders get an extra frame: Excalibur Prime, and four more revives with it. If you can have more frames, you can have more revives.

 

 

Well if Exclusive Items divide players, why does no one complain about missing out on Vandals or Wraiths? I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't have them and those items didn't cost any IRL money. I wish I had a Strun Wraith, but I missed out. End of story.

 

I've seen plenty of players complain about missing Vandals and Wraiths. I think you see more about Founders' Items because more players are aware of Primes, and its the only situation where a warframe is involved.

 

 

Want to know what's different about him? He comes with a polarity in his aura slot(normal Excal has no polarity), he's got the gold trim and it's barely there since he's such an old model, and if he touches a Death Orb in a Void mission you get 100 Energy(which is something any Prime frame can do). That's it. Nothing all that special is it?

 

I can't verify your claim. I've heard people say he's like a bog-standard Excalibur, save polarity; I've heard others say he has increased shield recharge. Also, he may or may not get better if DE retroactively buffs Primes.

 

 

How does buffing up the hard to get, super fancy frames become problematic? If DE thinks they should be better than they are, that's their choice. 

 

1) Not all 'Super Fancy Frames' are harder to get than their mundane counter parts. Frost Prime, in particular, I think is easier to get than the regular Frost.

2) I've posted this up thread, but maybe you missed it:

 

For starters, if you buff all the primes and keep Excalibur exclusive, you shaft non-founders who primarily play him, and upset people who like to use him in general, but aren't founders. If you buff all the primes except Excalibur and keep him exclusive, a number of founders will be upset about paying for a weaker frame. If you buff all the primes and make Excalibur public, a number of founders will be upset due to feeling betrayed by DE.

 

 

As stated before, there's other exclusive items that exist in the game. Lato Vandal was given to closed beta players when the game went open beta, Braton Vandal, Snipetron and Snipetron Vandal are all unobtainable now. Strun Wraith, Wraith Twin Vipers, Machete Wraith, and Gorgon Wraith are all unobtainable now unless you earned them in events. What about someone who started playing April 3rd or later? They missed out on the Dex Furis pistols. You also don't get the point of a Founder's program. The main points of any game's Founder program is to A)Raise some money early on B)Allow people who greatly enjoy the game to contribute to its development and C)Show thanks to people who're giving an unfinished product financial support. Once the game is ready, the Founder's program goes away. That's how it always works and Warframe isn't the only game to do that. Don't believe me? Go look up the game Nosgoth. They're in closed beta right now and have said once the game goes into open beta, all those nifty special items are no longer available. Should they give out those things when the Founder's program ends? No, because they've clearly stated those things are available for a limited time.

 

And I have an issue with exclusive items, period. In all games. And I tend to avoid games that have them, most of the time - but not all games have a giant warning label on the outside stating "This game contains limited, time locked exclusive content that you will never ever get if you start playing now. If this bothers you, don't play our game."

 

(I don't have an issue with the Snipertron going away - it was eliminated for lore reasons; and this is a beta - but I do think that the best solution would be to take them away from everyone. I may or may not be ok with the Braton and Lato Vandals never coming back, if DE will, or has, clarified what Vandal is supposed to represent - and from what faction the Braton and Lato are actually supposed to belong.)

 

Regarding the DEX Furius, I made a post about it the day after it came out, and asked DE to please not make it permanently exclusive item (I've not heard anything from DE on the subject). In it, I also address my feelings on how the Wraiths and Vandals could be handled moving forward:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/202381-dex-furis-anniversaries-and-exclusive-items/ 

 

As for the Founders Program in this game, I get what it was - and I respect the fact that the early Founders dropped a ton of money into the game that was largely unfinished. If you were an early founder, I think you should get serious respect for that.

 

But there's no reason the Founders couldn't have been offered a different award/thank you (instead of the exclusive Prime items) - like, say, free access to all  the Primes DE chose to make, while other players would have to pay larger prices for them, or would have to grind for them. There were lots of other, non-exclusive reward options that could have been made available.

 

DE made a bad decision - one I don't think they made for intentionally bad reasons. From what I can tell, they hadn't fully fleshed out the whole Prime thing at the time they made the offer - which is understandable, as this is a beta... but now they are bound to, what is in retrospect, a bad decision, because it has caused a divide in the player base, and it limits what they can do with the Primes moving forward.

 

 

You watch it happen in a couple of weeks with the Dex Furis.

It's not fair, I was on holiday/in hospital/equality/mastery rank/ division in the player base/ collector /OCD and all the other associated drivel these types come out with.

 

I have the DEX Furis sitting in my inventory (unused) until I hear if DE is bringing them back next year. I hope they do. I'm fine with seasonal drops, but we need less exclusive items. I love that DE is so generous with awesome swag - but swag's not fun if everyone can't have it. I don't see why anyone shouldn't have a chance at getting them again in the future.

 

I addressed this in a post a few days after they came out:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/202381-dex-furis-anniversaries-and-exclusive-items/

 

 

I'm confident in DE's ability to balance it. 

 

I'm confident about DE's ability to do a lot of things, but balance isn't one right now. Lots of weapons, warframes, abilities, and mods are horribly unbalanced. Ex: Rhino.

Edited April 9, 2014 by PoorCensored

[.Talia.]

 

 

 

  

 

  

Edited April 9, 2014 by RexSol

[Aggh]

what PvP ? last i heard when conclaves made an appearance it was all popular until a couple months later it all died and feel apart , so much whining and complaining from the community back then to get PvP and no one even uses it because well DE are more focused PvE side of the game as well as new features etc

 

they should seriously just removed conclaves

Conclaves died because DE hasn't put in the minmal effort towards actually balancing them.  That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.

 

 

 

Not even close...

 

When you read Yezzik's statements that is exactly what he's talking about.

 

 

I agree that PvP requires balance and competitiveness in order to be worth playing. That would also be a relevant statement if Warframe had PvP.

 

It doesn't.

Oh please.  If there are players playing versus players, it's PvP.  If conclave and duels aren't PvP, they neither is Quake, CS, COD and god knows how many other PvP shooters.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Aggh

[KrisStrife]

Personally, I'm okay with this idea, provided all the other exclusives get similar treatment, and perhaps a little something for the founders, like a minor credit or rare resource drop rate or something. No as big as the boosters, but stackable with them. If it was still possible to buy more than 5 things from the market for credits, I'd say a minor credit discount

[CandyDragon]

-snip-

 

More or less, nothing can be done to appease these types of people.

Remove mastery benefit, then it becomes an issue about the codex entry.

Remove the codex entry, then it becomes an issue about the 2.5% shield regen increase

Remove the shield regen increase, then it becomes an issue about exclusive cosmetics.

 

Interchange any of those statements as needed to replicate a thread about exclusive content.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Nariala

[Furyion]

no.and ps4 players the ones that swap to ps4 that are founders from pc.is fine.

[(PSN)atpbx]

So many flawed arguments.

It's exactly the same as when you are trying to help a friend who has been dumped by their girlfriend.

First you have denial, it's OK, I'm cool with it all I am sure DE will release it all again in the future.

Second you have anger, what do you mean exclusive means exactly that! How dare you do exactly what you said you were going to do and make founders a time limited never to be repeated offer RAGE, UNFAIR.

Third you have bargaining- I have a great idea everyone, what if we got the mastery rank for the items but not the items, what if the items were just skins, what if what if, how about, I happily pay x platinum. NO? How ok, how about this instead?

Fourth you have depression, I can't have it I am quitting, what's the point in playing if I can't have the master rank for something I can't have, I love this game but every time I look in the codex (like anybody ever looks in the codex) at those really awful 2 weapons and hideous limited edition Excaliber I can't have it renders the game pointless for me.

Fifth you have acceptance, I guess exclusive means exclusive, looks like DE is going to stick to what they said and not go back on their word.

I guess I can hit the level cap with the eleventy billion new weapons and frames that have been released since the founders pack to hit the level cap with no problem at all. It's not as if I would ever use the founders gear anyway, there is so much new stuff, new weapons, new event rewards, new vet rewards, new cosmetics etc that there is enough to keep everyone going.

[BETAOPTICS]

As a concept, it sounds great but do keep in mind that because of this, founders could abuse the system to a point where they possess practically infinite resources at their disposal, thus negating further revenue from these people to DE. While it might not be significant depending on how much founders have bought stuff after their initial purchase, it still can be quite a drastic monetary loss for DE.

Your idea sounds good and your intentions are without a question, noble but there still are some issues however, which lead to quite likely response of not going to happen.

DE really set itself to a hard spot they are in now in regards of this founder gear exclusivity issue whereby you really can't please the whole fanbase no matter how you do it. Someone will get beaten up no matter which route they will take and I think that it is the players who did not spend money then that will be on the receiving end of the stick when it comes to this topic.

We can try to think what lead DE to this position but ultimately I think that their plans at the time were unclear and if given a new chance, their founder exclusive gear would have been something else than Prime gear since many people love that bling they bring to their characters. Most use Primes if there is one available for their preferred playstyle after all.

[Cpt_Atroxium]

This is going to be my one and only answer from now on, nothing works besides this. It makes you even more mad does it not?

 

 

 

Might be a cruel thing to say, but I dont understand the not understanding what a Founder is and what it is. You know? It's like saying give me a ps4 because you have that exclusivity. I dont own any console. I only have a PC and founder, you have a PC, PS4 and Warframe. What more you want if you did not get it on PC in the first place and Founded because you saw potential in the future? So many things to take to consideration. But the answer is no and utter NO. Never guys. (little bad sarcasm here)

 

Just

 

[DoomHarbinger]

Hi i'm a founder 

[FlyDungas]

never gonna happen just get over it, do a search on this forum and you will see OP

[Ketec]

Th exclusives should be hidden from codex. All it does is cause people to want something they cannot ever get.

[Tsukinoki]

@Ketec

That is far more than fair and I dont see why it hasn't happened.

I mean, the only issue is when someone brings say the GW or the Excal P to a mission and the new players have no idea what it is and cant find it in the codex. But that should be small enough it doesn't matter.

@PoorCensored

Some of your ideas for what they could have given founders instead assumes that they were always planning to Prime every single frame they came out with. Which with how they released Frost Prime only after people on the forums whinged and yelled that they couldn't get a gold trim frame kinda shows that it was meant to be a one off thing and then forumers happened.

So its not like they could have said "We'll give you all future primes for free with slot and potato!" when at the time Excal P was the only prime that was going to be made.

And I dont see the point of not using gear simply because you can never have *all* of a set. I can't imagine how many games that would completely lock you out of because of something you missed in the base set.

There's no point in cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[-Vondred-]

I think ps4 should get the same exclusive rewards if paid for, via the same amount, and founders access. They should also have a say in what votes are carried out within the founders program.

[armedpoop]

damn! is it just me or do all these founders sound like stuck up snobs? I mean damn! This is kinda pathetic, really.

[armedpoop]

So many flawed arguments.

It's exactly the same as when you are trying to help a friend who has been dumped by their girlfriend.

First you have denial, it's OK, I'm cool with it all I am sure DE will release it all again in the future.

Second you have anger, what do you mean exclusive means exactly that! How dare you do exactly what you said you were going to do and make founders a time limited never to be repeated offer RAGE, UNFAIR.

Third you have bargaining- I have a great idea everyone, what if we got the mastery rank for the items but not the items, what if the items were just skins, what if what if, how about, I happily pay x platinum. NO? How ok, how about this instead?

Fourth you have depression, I can't have it I am quitting, what's the point in playing if I can't have the master rank for something I can't have, I love this game but every time I look in the codex (like anybody ever looks in the codex) at those really awful 2 weapons and hideous limited edition Excaliber I can't have it renders the game pointless for me.

Fifth you have acceptance, I guess exclusive means exclusive, looks like DE is going to stick to what they said and not go back on their word.

I guess I can hit the level cap with the eleventy billion new weapons and frames that have been released since the founders pack to hit the level cap with no problem at all. It's not as if I would ever use the founders gear anyway, there is so much new stuff, new weapons, new event rewards, new vet rewards, new cosmetics etc that there is enough to keep everyone going.

[Oizen]

If DE is never going to give us a chance to get excal prime then take it out of the ps4 codex. It is soo annoying to look at when you cant get it.

Cant you do a one time account cloning from pc to ps4

 

that be a way to get it.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Conclaves died because DE hasn't put in the minmal effort towards actually balancing them.  That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.

 

 

 

Oh please.  If there are players playing versus players, it's PvP.  If conclave and duels aren't PvP, they neither is Quake, CS, COD and god knows how many other PvP shooters.

Your entire post makes my point.

Nothing in this game is balanced for PvP.

...Because it doesn't exist.

Conclaves are for dueling. Sure, the matches can be more than 1v1 but it's still just dueling. If you think Dueling and PvP are the same then you haven't actually been in PvP combat. Casual, Open World, or otherwise.

The games you mentioned are PvP games and are balanced for such while offering team matches with objectives. Warframe doesn't have any of that... Don't apply lame comparisons.

 

None of that has anything to do with the fact Yezzik is complaining because he wants Mastery Points to ensure PvP parity... Something you've conveniently ignored.

 

So do me a huge favor...

Stop trolling me and/or stay on topic.

 

If you feel like I broke your "little red wagon" with my comments on PvP... Deal with it.

 

Go post a topic about how The Conclaves should be expanded and balanced if you want PvP.

The discussion here is about Founder's exclusives and why people think they deserve it.

 

Unless you have something relevant to that discussion you should go troll another thread.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Well, DE are stubborn about mistreating PS4 users. Which is why account migration is never happening by the way, exclusive gear on another platform is a no-no in such cases.

DE already said that founder items mentioned in OP will be removed from PS4 version codex and PS4 will get PS4 exclusives, which they don't talk about yet. That's enough for me to give them benefit of doubt and wait.

[OniDax]

damn! is it just me or do all these founders sound like stuck up snobs? I mean damn! This is kinda pathetic, really.

 

The only thing that is pathetic is you continually asking for founders gear. You missed it, just like I missed the vandals. Get over it.

[RoboDoge]

The only thing that is pathetic is you continually asking for founders gear. You missed it, just like I missed the vandals. Get over it.

I am quite sure he was being sarcastic.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Because account migration is still waiting on Sony approval and rumor has it that the Founders stuff and other PC exclusives are what's holding it up. Part of the reason why the Founders pack is a sore spot to some PS4 players is that it was supposed to end before the game was released on Steam, but was extended till November 1 of last year, two weeks before the console release. The PS4 port was announced in June I believe, months before the program's end, and wasn't extended for the PS4.

DE_Megan has already stated that they're working on PS4 exclusives, so expect the forums to explode when they're unveiled.

Honestly? Release a PS4-only unique Warframe and I'll forgive everything and spend more money. I'm a sort of a brand loyalist when it comes to Sony.

[(PSN)octus]

Honestly? Release a PS4-only unique Warframe and I'll forgive everything and spend more money. I'm a sort of a brand loyalist when it comes to Sony.

i would love an exclusive frame.