0% Tax The Unwritten Code Of The Tenno

[dashashou]

With  the dark sector nodes almost being universally taxed at 0%  this seem to be the unspoken agreement .

 

 

THIS IS A GREAT THING !!!

 

The warframe  community  is without exception  one of the best of all the online games . Any and I mean any  player can ask  any player for help and almost without  fail they will help them out .

 

 If i where to poll the all the current players i would be surprised if there was one person in game that hasn't run someone that needed it to a boss / alert . Or even  ran a key ,  just to help some one out . 

 

So it's with great surprise  that  some people want increases taxes and bitter poison rivalry where it's  alliance  vs alliance doing a same map grind war . Some have even  gone  so far as to  call those who want  keep this great cooperative spirit  alive  with keeping the special content as string free as they can "Care bears " even some moderators have used  this term .

 

Warframe is at it's  best when it's every one is working together  , and at it's worst when some breaks off from the group and  kill steals , so why would DE set up a system of people hogging kill zones/ content  .  

 

Hopefully  we can keep to the Unwritten code of the Tenno . Tenno killing Tenno ( if only specter versions ) is a bad idea from head to toe .  

 

 

[Zhoyzu]

thing about taxes is they are a source of funding. a low tax is better then no tax.

 

if your gov. collected all the taxes and does nothing with the money then your city/country is going to look like S#&$ and slowly fall apart.

 

If your gov doesnt even collect taxes then itll all happen alot faster.

 

if small taxes are collected and used then the city/country wont fall into disrepair if funds are allocated

 

 

 

solar rail taxes allow for higher battle pay (as i understand it) during conflict.

alos because playes cry about how they have so many credits DE decided to add another credit sink.

[Cybernetix]

It's a nice idea to begin with, but every rail can and will be contested the moment it's available.

This means that everyone is going to be locked out of the profitable and fun missions for 2 out of every 3 days because neither side has taxed enough to provide any incentive to fight for them and resolve the conflict in under 48 hours.

 

I'd sooner see higher taxes and meaningful battle pay.

[Bronte]

I don't agree with that rule though. What do the clans get for owning those rails if they can't tax us at least a little for it?

I know theres a pvp dominance side to it, but to not even tax us a little?

What does the tax even effect? Credits? materials? Does it matter when your there for easy infected farming and bonuses to xp.

5% isn't anything considering your getting bonus +xp and other things from the mission.

etc.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Bronte

[CampingSnake]

It doesn't matter anyway. The second the node is available another clan tries to claim it. The mission is never available for taxes to be collected.

 

I think that zero tax is set just so the clan can own the area, it's a matter of "I have it and you don't"

Look at Ecplipse, it owns about 6 or 7 areas and all are set to 0% tax.

[Methanoid]

smart clans/alliances arent making them 0% out of the goodness of their hearts, their making them 0% because even if they amassed billions in credits and resources theres nothing to use them on except more rails, credits/resources can go IN the aliance vault, they cant be transferred/redirected elsewhere so its a dead end system with no benefit.

 

if there was actually something to spend those credits/resources that was beneficial to clans/alliances/players you can bet all those 0% rails would vanish in a heartbeat............ but theres not, so 0% is the only sane choice.

[SilentMobius]

The product here is access to a Dark Sector with maximized rewards.

_With_ attacks the nominal cost of the product to the consumer (the playerbase) is the cost of defending and repairing against that aggressor spread over the number of normal mission the players take in that Dark Sector. OR The amount it costs the aggressor to build and attack the incumbant, again spread over the number of runs of the resultant Dark Sector missions.

Taxes will lower to attract players (consumers), players will migrate to the Dark Sectors that give them the greatest rewards. This will push the taxes even lower, which will reduce the possible rewards for the prospective aggressor.

_Without_ attacks the nominal cost of the product becomes 0, hence market forces will eventually drive the price to 0 and aggressors will realise that with a 0 return on their investment there is no reason to invest.

This is what _will_ happen in the long run without an active upkeep (nominal cost) on the rails.

Personally I think this is great, it's not altruism it's simply an implicit understanding of market forces. also I think that the conflict part of the Dark Sectors is poor and unnecessary.

Edited April 16, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Methanoid]

The product here is access to a Dark Sector with maximized rewards.

_With_ attacks the nominal cost of the product to the consumer (the playerbase) is the cost of defending and repairing against that aggressor spread over the number of normal mission the players take in that Dark Sector. OR The amount it costs the aggressor to build and attack the incumbant, again spread over the number of runs of the resultant Dark Sector missions.

Taxes will lower to attract players (consumers), players will migrate to the Dark Sectors that give them the greatest rewards. This will push the taxes even lower, which will reduce the possible rewards for the prospective aggressor.

_Without_ attacks the nominal cost of the product becomes 0, hence market forces will eventually drive the price to 0 and aggressors will realise that with a 0 return on their investment there is no reason to invest.

This is what _will_ happen in the long run without an active upkeep (nominal cost) on the rails.

Personally I think this is great, it's not altruism it's simply an implicit understanding of market forces. also I think that the conflict part of the Dark Sectors is poor and unnecessary.

 

theres no reason to actually attack a rail once some1 owns one, any challenger simple pisses off their own clan/alliance and the public by removing all the bonus's available, even worse the alliance/clans involved also earn 0 credits for their work.

 

its a bad system, at present any rail owned should be left alone and never challeneged, the rail doesnt give anything of worth to anyone if owned, and all players gain by having access to the 4 bonus's/rewards when its not contested.

[SevenLetterKWord]

thing about taxes is they are a source of funding. a low tax is better then no tax.

if your gov. collected all the taxes and does nothing with the money then your city/country is going to look like S#&$ and slowly fall apart.

If your gov doesnt even collect taxes then itll all happen alot faster.

Flawed analogy.

Governmental systems have services to provide, such as public safety and the upkeep of utilities.

In Warframe, the simple act of providing a Solar Rail has no cost other than the initial investment of constructing it.

Basically, Solar Rails can easily be provided for free.

 

The only problem here is the possibility of conflict.

Some fake-seeking clan with a big ego comes along and attacks a free rail (often claiming to erect another free rail in its place).

This creates costs for both sides.

 

Assuming a peaceful system is possible, the necessity of taxation is supported only through circular logic.

In other words, the only reason we have to bear taxation, dark sector downtime, and solar rail construction costs is because a fragment of egotistic rogue factors cannot keep themselves from declaring pointless wars.

[ADJCENT]

Flawed analogy.

Governmental systems have services to provide, such as public safety and the upkeep of utilities.

In Warframe, the simple act of providing a Solar Rail has no cost other than the initial investment of constructing it.

Basically, Solar Rails can easily be provided for free.

Ummmm, Solar Rails need to be repaired don't they?

[Munchies668]

Flawed analogy.

Governmental systems have services to provide, such as public safety and the upkeep of utilities.

In Warframe, the simple act of providing a Solar Rail has no cost other than the initial investment of constructing it.

Basically, Solar Rails can easily be provided for free.

 

The only problem here is the possibility of conflict.

Some fake-seeking clan with a big ego comes along and attacks a free rail (often claiming to erect another free rail in its place).

This creates costs for both sides.

 

Assuming a peaceful system is possible, the necessity of taxation is supported only through circular logic.

In other words, the only reason we have to bear taxation, dark sector downtime, and solar rail construction costs is because a fragment of egotistic rogue factors cannot keep themselves from declaring pointless wars.

I agree, Their is no maintenance cost for having a free rail on a node UNLESS it's attacked. That means the entire community can benefit from that node. 

Can anyone explain to me the benefit for having a node even with, lets say, 10% tax? I've read in other posts that you can't withdraw tax funds from the vault, only to repair your rail. Contesting nodes seems a bit pointless to me.

[Lucredis]

I'm just gonna copy&paste my opinion here.

 

No tax = Little to no money for battle pay = No incentive to fight for anyone = Extremely long conflict time

 

Have tax = Have money to pay for battle pay = People will jump on your side = Short conflict time and little to no damage to the rail

 

 

 

 

See my point?

 

[roaddogz]

The reason for the rails o exist is to be contested. There is no reason for the dark sector to offer such advantage if player can access them  24/7 with no downside.

[Methanoid]

never attack them, no credits needed, no point fighting, repairs a none issue, no conflicts at all, every1 profits.

[Lucredis]

never attack them, no credits needed, no point fighting, repairs a none issue, no conflicts at all, every1 profits.

Somebody will attack them. Just because they can.

[Munchies668]

So the upside: Tax the node to repair your rail.
The downside: You can't use the node.

Gothca

[fatpig84]

26 nodes.

Thousands of clans

Thousands of rails already built.

 

Since you already built, it is already spent cost.

Might as well use it in a hostile declaration and hope you can cap a node :)

[Wiegraf]

Ummmm, Solar Rails need to be repaired don't they?

 

The damage only comes (as far as we know; we didn't have time to see any rail degrade naturally) from conflicts.

 

No conflicts, no damage; no damage, no repair costs.

[roaddogz]

The damage only comes (as far as we know; we didn't have time to see any rail degrade naturally) from conflicts.

 

No conflicts, no damage; no damage, no repair costs.

That's a dream. 

[SilentMobius]

That's a dream. 

 

Right now the conflict is new and exciting, however given time the clans will realize that they gain _nothing_ from contesting a tax free rail and in actual fact it costs them quite a bit. Everyone has build rails and wants to use them. That will peter out soon enough.

 

Gamers are _really_ good at optimizing for maximum gain.

[Ketec]

5% credits 0% resources. Any higher and i simply just wont play it.

 

Don't care about the worthless tiny battle pay.  most likely would pay them more by playing the game at 20% tax then they would give me back in conflict.

Why should i care about 3-5k battle pay if i can male 25k min per normal ds mission instead at low tax VS having to pay the greedy 5k from that instead.

 

People naturally are against taxes the higher they get - regardless of what its for. Humans have been abused with taxes for a very long time so it no wonder they get angry about it.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

With  the dark sector nodes almost being universally taxed at 0%  this seem to be the unspoken agreement .

 

 

THIS IS A GREAT THING !!!

 

The warframe  community  is without exception  one of the best of all the online games . Any and I mean any  player can ask  any player for help and almost without  fail they will help them out .

 

 If i where to poll the all the current players i would be surprised if there was one person in game that hasn't run someone that needed it to a boss / alert . Or even  ran a key ,  just to help some one out . 

 

So it's with great surprise  that  some people want increases taxes and bitter poison rivalry where it's  alliance  vs alliance doing a same map grind war . Some have even  gone  so far as to  call those who want  keep this great cooperative spirit  alive  with keeping the special content as string free as they can "Care bears " even some moderators have used  this term .

 

Warframe is at it's  best when it's every one is working together  , and at it's worst when some breaks off from the group and  kill steals , so why would DE set up a system of people hogging kill zones/ content  .  

 

Hopefully  we can keep to the Unwritten code of the Tenno . Tenno killing Tenno ( if only specter versions ) is a bad idea from head to toe .  

 

Hahahaha.

 

Yeah sure, wait until the cost of upkeeping the rails is unsustainable. It already seems to be happening as 0% tax Alliances and Clans attack each other. Where do you think that funding comes from? Haven't people grasped that it to cover the 15 million credit cost of repair a Moon Clan with 1000 active members would have to run 15,000 missions at 10,000 credits each to cover the cost of repair costs, every day, given that Clans and Alliances seem to be attacking each other constantly.

 

0% tax systems are unsustainable, in any situation. But it's one that is exacerbated by the low entry cost. 500,000 credits? Most of us can afford to construct at least 1 rail on our own. No wonder each node is getting spammed constantly, there's no reason to keep the rails when it consts significantly less to forfeit and build multiple rails spamming rival clan's nodes than it does to maintain one. 

[TsukiSui]

Right now the conflict is new and exciting, however given time the clans will realize that they gain _nothing_ from contesting a tax free rail and in actual fact it costs them quite a bit. Everyone has build rails and wants to use them. That will peter out soon enough.

 

Gamers are _really_ good at optimizing for maximum gain.

There're people who exist just to F*** up everyone else's.

No conflict will never happen.

[victor_victory]

the point is theres no reason to contest the damned things.

That's absolutely irrelevant. Even though there is no reason to contest it but the fact here is the nodes are getting contested,clans are giving 0 taxes and we are getting locked out from dark sector.

Being this passive can't help the situation and looks more like pure whining.

[Ketec]

then don't use a moon clan with thousand members. that's why there is an alliance with up to 4000 members.

 

the 15m repair cost is from 1% to full.

Its less if u took less damage.

 

Rail build cost needs to be at least 100x higher with some kind of puzzle/minigame to solve when deploying (so spam clicking wont help)