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[DE]Rebecca

Warframe Ability Changes

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A bit disgusted with Blessing incoming change ...

After Ember tanking, you totally break a frame that had only one use: make people live.

I would agree with a minimum damage reduction of 50%, increased by power strength, capped by the amount healed.

But common, please, you're doing wrong here ...

 

On the other side, i will certainly enjoy all the other adjustments :)

Edited by Tazmanyak
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Oh my.

Here are my thoughts on the mentioned changes as a player with 930+ hours playtime:

Ash:

Yes, yes and yes on all of those changes.

Especially Blade Storm sounds really good, if it doesn't last longer than what it takes for a team-mate to bleed out anymore.

This is a long-needed fix for him that WILL make Ash actually useful.

A bit longer or a bit cheaper stealth would be nice, so he is on par with Loki, but that's not really too important.

Hydroid:

Good change. Very good change. I didn't bother with Undertow for that exact reason, it being uncontrollable and just accumulating bigger enemies to all attack at once - for that purpose, his ult completely outclasses Undertow in usefulness currently.

I hope it uses energy per second.

Volt:

Is that height? Width? Eh. I guess its okay. Not really needed, but welcomed.

Nyx:

Nice change. The length is why I built my Nyx to only last 3 seconds in Absorb - enough for a brief tank and stun.

10 seconds Chaos is also way more useful than longer durations.

So, not really needed for my build, but nice that it is there.

Banshee:

Turning Silence into an aural-only ranged team-stealth is a very nice idea.

I also like that Sound Quake change, especially powers that take energy per second. That could be a good idea for more powers.

Trinity:

The Energy Vampire change seems like a good and needed fix.

About Blessing...

I agree on that limiting the difficulty from 'all the time' to 'the half second gap between invincibilities' is a bit stupid, but this is Trinity's only real good point for team-play.

As I read it, new Blessing will work on some team-mates, not on others, depending on their HP.

This is an issue, as you are now constantly torn between casting it, even though it not just 'doesn't apply' to team-mates that are doing good, but punishing them for doing good, while others are rewarded for keeping their HP low with invincibility.

So, at the very least I hope that you considered the ability to 'overcast' it, as in, there will be a timer, but you can - Snowglobe, Bastille or Vortex style - recast it prematurely.

If so, that might barely save the usefulness of the frame, while upping the energy cost dramatically.

If not, I see Trinity to turn near useless, as in, a gunner, not a caster.

Also, again, as mentioned above, this new Blessing punishes good team-players and rewards bad ones. You could argue that it rewards risky players in the battle, while punishing overly careful or passive players, who dont need invincibility anyway, but who knows if they were just catching up and run directly into a mess?

Without seeing what your teammates actually do, this is impossible for the Trinity to decide in the heat of a battle.

Well, this definitely gets rid of is Bless-Linking and thus the only reason to have an Ogris these days (other than nuking ODD from afar). Maybe good riddance, it was a bit ridiculous.

----------

Suggestion for a different Blessing 'nerf':

-Let Blessing not give out invincibility, but some sort of Iron Skin with HP added to it. If it runs out on a reckless player, then so be it.

-Indicate the strength of the Blessing to the affected player somehow. It should start flash-fading or blinking when it is close to cease.

-Let it only affect HP, not the player's shields. That shouldn't be a problem with an Iron Skin applied on top of everything (even on a Rhino's own Iron Skin) and would make more sense.

-Put a recharge on it.

I know this would require a rework on the duration mods, possible recharge reduction mods etc, but it might work out one or the other way. In fact, some other powers might benefit from a recharge model, too.

Alternatively, base it on Trinity's own Iron Shield. If she steps back and isn't engaging in battle, it would run out last. Sucks to be the other guys, huh. It'd not require a duration mod setup or a rework of those mods, though.

As the current new Blessing would affect players differently anyway, based on their healed HP, this suggestion is still less of a gap in protection.

-Limit the range to 50m. This punishes lone runners and hallway heroes, and makes running to the life support a challenge, unlike what you currently have in mind.

In case it isn't clear: This is one single suggestion with five changes, not five individual suggestions. They play off of one another.

----------

About Link...

Half her abilities only work effectively against bosses or big units.

Link isn't viable against masses, Blessing was pretty much her only scaling strong point.

Ergo: Trinity needs some sort of crowd control, if she doesn't have a reliable damage negation anymore.

Since Link on its own is now pretty much useless for endgame, just a mere 75%-paying life-insurance, how about you turn it into some sort of stun or stagger.

Up it to 1/3/5/10 connections (based on mod level) and give the enemies not just 100% of the damage that Trin takes, but add a slow effect to it, like M Prime but without the explosion.

Here are my hopes for what still gets added for other Frames:

I hope Vauban gets timers on his powers soon! Just consider the last Vortex and Bastille he throws. It isn't needed for his first two powers.

It should be possible and it is already done with Frost's Globe, which you can spam multiple times and the timer just keeps track of the last one.

Same for Loki's Decoy! Please add a power timer.

Loki's Decoy's Health needs to respond to Power Strength like Snowglobe does!

I hope that some powers get health indicators! - Snowglobe, Iron Skin, Loki's Decoy - that stuff should start flashing or pulse-fading when it drops below 10% HP, so you don't have to babysit it all the time and can see their status from afar. This would also signal the team it is about to decay, instead of just having the power icon flash red or something.

I wish for Nekros' Shadow Clones to actually follow him around when there's nothing to kill anymore

Let Chaos'ed enemies or Shadow Clones actually generate EXP for the player and the team! It doesn't make sense not to and EXP is not supposed to be a rare substance anyway, right?

Frost needs the push-back on his Avalanche removed! Let enemies walk right into it again, please!

I was under the impression that you wanted to improve Frost's usability. As he stands now, he is up to 80% of his former glory, mainly based on Avalanche performance (and up from about 20% when Avalanche was completely useless right after the nerf).

Also, all the stat-boosts and mod effects on Snowglobe don't hide that it is more relying on the player babysitting it than before. I'm sure this was intended to break the 'cast and forget' mentality that was 'boring', but all it does is prevent Frosts to cast it and then rush around killing or collecting things while they knew it would hold up.

Snowglobe was always a two-sided sword, what with enemies walking right into it and then being protected by you and your team-mates from the outside, and all that.

Suggestion for the inevitable Nova nerf:

If you don't think Chaos and Shadows of the Dead should generate EXP, then Nova's M Prime shouldn't either.

Otherwise, make her even flimsier. As flimsy as Ember is. 15 Armor, not 65. I'd even keep the 75 base shield.

Let her be the glass-cannon, but make her actually glassy.

That's it. Nova needs no other 'fixes'.

Maybe wormhole could be cheaper, but so could Valkyr's Rip Line, or any movability power, really.

After all: Nova is not a problem endgame. She is useful, without being overpowering against enemies level 30+. Her cascade explosions only work up to a certain enemy level. Then, only the slow effect and the double damage is important. Taking down either would be crippling.

There is no need to cripple any frame.

Suggestion for overall low-level mission hijacking, soloing in a team, hallway heroing with endgame builds, etc:

(Re-)Establish that you can't enter lower planets with too high CC ratings.

Sure, people will min-max then, but let them. It is better than having 1800 CC frames stomping everything.

This limitation should be lifted however when soloing, on Nightmare nodes or in Private games.

What also might be a very painful cut into almost every frame's build, is what I see as the source of all the 'imbalances':

If you don't want to shield lower level players from end-game builds via CC rating limits, then it might be a good idea to look into rebalancing 'Fleeting Expertise'.

The 75% reduction hardcap on power costs is very fine. Making it cost more Mod points isn't really going to fix anything either, just requiring more grind and Formas.

Instead, make it affect more frames negatively. I wouldn't reduce its positive effect, but adding power weakening effects to the already established duration penalty might be a good incline not to use it if you're going for min-maxing based on power strength alone.

I hope this helps a bit and wasn't all too redundant with what might have been said before in this thread.

Edited by Fubukin
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Can one change to Shuriken be that at least one of the projectiles follows the crosshair rather than auto-targeting? One of the things I hated when it was changed long ago was that when I was trying to use the power to take out a heavy gunner so I could more safely take on the lancers around her, every throw of my shuriken would only hit the little guys and never hit the heavy, even though I was aiming directly at her.

 

Perhaps make it so that when the crosshair is sitting on an enemy, that one of them will go directly to that enemy; otherwise, if the crosshair isn't pointed to anything, the shuriken act as normal and auto-target the nearest enemy to where the aim is.

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The new spell blessing is interesting but the time to cast is so long, your team have the time to die 5 times.

 

A spell on ON/OFF is the best idea for Nyx/banshee and banshee need a damage buff, she have "eat" 2 nerf for the damage (low damage, - damage and - damage again)

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Can sonar get the same mobile effect that silence does?

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How about Blessing giving a security additional HP bar (kinda like Iron Skin) depending on how much it restored ? 

 

I mean, if it heals 200 on one teammate, 100 on another, and 350 on another, and 20 on me (becuz I'm good), it grants a 670 hp protection to everybody. 

 

So that it remains something we can't abuse, and everybody in the team is happy even if not everyone needed to be healed. 

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New blessing sounds horrible - cast it to save one player like normal, and then they become the only player with buff, while the rest of the team is not only unbuffed, but Trinity is blocked from being able to help if another player is about to die until the duration ends.

 

MAYBE this would work if the power-in-use lock is removed, and a recast of Blessing can recalculate the buff on players - old effect is removed and instantly replaced by a new effect calculated on their current health at this new cast. The player at the low health level that prompted the second cast of Blessing will have their buff, while any previously-buffed players will have their high buff removed since they're no longer as hurt at the time of the new cast.

 

That way, Blessing is unrestricted in being able to heal any player that needs it, when they need it, the re-application of the effect will help balance having one teammate buffed for too long unless the Trinity decides to sacrifice the rest of her team in order to keep that duration up. Also, a Trinity that repeatedly has to cast Blessing every time a teammate needs it, especially on Grineer survival when everything is naplam, will need a massive energy source in order to keep up with the cost, and so will have to actively stay in the combat zone to catch every last orb.

 

A duration-locked Trinity would be more like "Well I healed Fred a little while ago, but now Bill is down. Oh, well. I guess Fred will revive you, Bill, since I don't have any buff. I'm the healer, so I'll stay way back here out of danger." Or "Since the buff can be only reliably be applied to one player at a time, unless we're 'lucky' and two players are near-death at the same time, I won't heal my teammates, so I'll always be able to keep myself alive."

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Thought info on the nova changes were supposed to be coming shortly?  Two days ago?

Edited by Aggh

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trin was a support frame, that is what you had her labeled as, now you would have better luck with nekros and Oberon as a support because they spawn health orbs and Nekros has his army, but even then their not support, and now trin will be almost useless in late game due to the fact you cant have that few seconds of invulnerability to recompose yourself.

 

Even in high levels +50 you get 2-3 heavy gunners on you your going down before blessing is cast even with natural talent. also with this rework your rewarding people that run off and get swarmed rather than the teamwork, i don't know how many times I've saved randoms cause they run off on their own and almost die, and when i do let them die the complain. giving them i higher damage reduction will just make more Rambo Tenno just so they can tank more damage instead of sticking together.

 

a better idea would of been to add permanent 2 room range, so the room your in and the first room out of every exit from your room, and maybe reduce the duration by 25%. this would of meant people would need to work together in higher levels instead of running off on their own and still given players that re composure time for those that don't blessing spam.

 

also i cant remember how many friends/ new players I've helped with trin, as they still try to learn the game, some of them ask me not to use blessing, others don't, then rest couldn't care if i do or don't, why call her a support frame if she will now do it so poorly

Edited by Clats01
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Ash's Bladestorm 

 

Instead of having him killing the enemies he first targeted like he does now, make the ability like the following:

 

Ash creates those clones, the clones attack all enemies in range in the same way Ash does now, but they keep attacking all new enemies that enter that range until we either stop the ability ( Like we will be able to stop Nyx's absorb ) or if we don't stop, he'll keep attacking enemies until there's no more energy left, though every enemy hit costs 10 energy.

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Вместо того чтобы провести балансировку бесполезных способностей которые составляют около 60% всех способностей в игре, они нерфают единственно полезные, игра вообще становится все хуже и хуже, для игроков которые уже наиграли 500 и более часов Варфрейм уже не интересен а каждое новое обновление такого плана только отталкивает от себя 

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 - Finisher damage, from what I remember, is somewhat like stealth attacks... waaay weaker than regular melee while invisible.  Unless finisher damage has been tweaked considerably, this sounds like a nerf to teleport.

This.

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Well, there goes 'easy mode' Trinity now. It was lovely beating down the Ambulas with melee weapons when everyone had 100% invincibility...

 

Now only memories. -sigh-

 

 

To the main point though. The new Blessing? Hate it. The old Blessing, while considered to be over-powered, was the only redeeming feature that Trinity had as a support frame. Her other abilities are useful, but in the middle of combat where you have level 50's coming at you from all sides, you are going to need more than a Well of Life or Energy Vampire. Blessing would get us out of there. Not anymore, I guess.

 

I think a better idea for Trinity's Blessing would be that when used, it's invincibility duration would be affected by how much was healed, rather than the percentage of immunity you get. If you are getting swarmed by a large group, you are going to need a longer time for that invincibility in order to either kill them all or get the hell out of there. And if you are good enough where you are not hurt at all, you will get a tiny duration on your invincibility, because there is no danger to you.

The main reason why I say that it should be duration-based and not immunity-percentage-based is simple really. You are bad at the game, very reckless, or are getting pummeled from a lot of enemies, having a buff that reduces the damage on you is not going to be very helpful because they can still damage you, and you will still probably get downed irregardless. Therefore, it would be better to make it so the duration is affected, and not the percentage. 

 

As an extra idea, it could also go along the lines that you are healed slowly, but you are invincible as long as you are being healed. Those that don't have much damage don't have a long invincibility duration, but those that are in critical condition will be invincible until they are fully healed. Just another idea.

Edited by Nick-ka-ka
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How about Blessing giving a security additional HP bar (kinda like Iron Skin) depending on how much it restored ? 

 

I mean, if it heals 200 on one teammate, 100 on another, and 350 on another, and 20 on me (becuz I'm good), it grants a 670 hp protection to everybody. 

 

So that it remains something we can't abuse, and everybody in the team is happy even if not everyone needed to be healed. 

This would make it more useless than it will be, at least for late game (Lv 100+) where they take a Valkyr with Vitality+Iron Skin+Life Strike in less than few seconds if you make a false step. Your change will only make it worse.

 

-

 

With this new upcoming change you will choose any other frame over a Trinity for it because they're more useful or they have better movility/survivability. Actually, for those who aim to do high level content because you can save some keys keeping yourself in the same mission, there's no point in bring a Trinity with yours anymore. Also you cannot self-proclaim this a fix to take... challenges? This is how some call it, because there's no point in achieving anything when you're one hit killed/incapped. Actually would be more easy that if you want challenges, not bringing a Trinity with yours. High level enemies need a revamp so hard.

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So, at the very least I hope that you considered the ability to 'overcast' it, as in, there will be a timer, but you can - Snowglobe, Bastille or Vortex style - recast it prematurely.

 

This is pretty much all Blessing needs.  If it works this way, it's a great change to the ability.

Edited by LazarusDark

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Alternative solutions to Trinity:

 

Link issue:

Make the Penta and Orgris bypass warframe abilities (dispel) and kill you.

OR

Take away friendly fire from Penta or Orgris (or anything else used to abuse Link).

 

This would stop the link spam.  Also do something about standing in front of lasers and distributing damage (lasers will dispel ability as well).

 

Blessing:

Reduce timer of invincibility.  Fully modded, 28 sec is too long.  Make it 10 or 15 sec. fully modded or just flat 10-15 sec (not upgradeable).

OR/AND

Blessing only heals, not recharges shields.

 

 

 

I’ve only played for 130 hours (PS4), but I felt I could contribute to this post.  Also I skimmed the 26+ pages so if this was covered, my apologies.

 

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ppl will stop using blessing and switch to Link 75% damage reduction til HP drops to 2 Health (Quick Thinking) then cast New Blessing -> 99% Damage reduction and ofc dead team mates 

 

trin will go from most kind and helpful frame to most selfish and hated frame overnight

 

this was co-op and friendly game and now with Solar Rail conflicts and forced tax "harassment" i feel a lot of hostility among the players... (why not just give controlling alliance bonus credits without taking it away from players?)

 

DE why are u implementing changes that will make players hate each other?

 

 

Its sad but true :(

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it would be nice to hear from rebecca or megan or anyone from DE about their thoughts now that they have read through above 400 replies on this topic. Please DE. share your thoughts and tell why you changed a totally support frame to almost useless frame. Her ultimate ability doesn't feel like a ultimate anymore. Its like i am wasting 100 energy for healing 1 guy and then i have wait certain seconds before i can cast it for some other guy. while almost every other warframe has a ultimate affecting a group of enemies.

Edited by (PS4)jenax002

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Let's just say, before the update called Dawn and now can be called Sunset.

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I think you pretty much just killed the last of the Trinitys unless someone feels like playing an energy mule. The ability to provide invulnerability was pretty much the only thing I ever see her as being noted as useful for. As usual, your "balancing" logic perplexes me.

Edited by DeadlyFred
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Locking temporarily for follow up and information.

 

1) Ash's clones will just visual for the duration of the power, not behaving like Specters.

 

2) There have been the following changes to Trinity's Blessing rework:

 

- Blessing:  On cast, Blessing restores all shields and health. Damage reduction for the duration of the skill is now based on the greatest percentage of health healed (i.e: if you have a squad with members whose health you healed 30%, 40% and 90%, all party members will receive Damage reduction at the greatest percent, 90% in this case). 

 

- Reduced the time it takes for Trinity's Blessing animation to play.

 

3) Nova will not be adjusted today, but we will have more concise information that will come in a post, ideally this week. The delay has been due to development time, sorry!

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Please note that Ash's changes were partially integrated today on PC:

 

Ash:

 

Shuriken now has forced bleed proc.

Bladestorm now has forced bleed proc.

Teleport now leaves enemy in finisher state.

 

Further clone changes to Bladestorm will follow in a future update.

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