Why Are Kubrows More Important Than Fixing The Core Gameplay Elements Of Warframe?

[SirGhosty]

Except they are working on core game play stuff: most of U14 is reworking the new player experience to get your friends hooked.

 

They listen, and they do.

 

This, kubrows are nice but I'm so happy DE is finally fixing the new game experiance. I think DE has been focusing on veterans for too long.

[ASH_PRIME]

There's always gunna be old bugs and small gripes that the old player base would like fixed [Fix Targeting on Teleport PLEASE?]

But at the end of the day, the new content and constant new ideas from DE are things to praise and get excited about..

The changes I have seen in a year have been amazing... 

I can personally do without space dawgs but the individual and customizable ships are right up my alley



 

[Shehriazad]

I see lots of boo hooing...I mean you act like they haven't told us what else they work on...stuff like the Focus system.

Plus the fundamentals for the quest system are being deployed for U14 and first steps toward real pvp (which could possibly mean exclusive pvp balancing).

Now don't cry about "but what about bug X and Y". Some bugs will take looooooong to fix...others will be fixed faster. Deal with it. 


If U14 has absolutely nothing for you...then nothing can stop you from waiting for 14.5 or 15. Focus and other important systems that add depth to the game are not actually far away and we should be seeing them this year.



If Warframe is your only game you are going to have a bad time, anyway. No single new game can hold up to the demands of a player that plays their game every day of a year....development does not work that way.

[Clasbyte]

I'm assuming by "press button to win" stuff, you're referring to many warframes ultimates? I.E. Rhino Stomp, Molecular Prime(Which has been tweaked and works a bit better now), Blessing even? That is...rather honestly how they are to be played. Admittedly there are still warframes that need work, need balancing and ect so they are on a sorta equal level of effectiveness. Loki and Mag are starter frames, and a couple of the best frames in the game to be honest, Excalibur on the other hand, the freaking Icon warframe, is...not that great compared to the other two.

 

Excalibur ist on paar with does frames, you just have to figuer out how do use him to his limits and no ulti spamming is not always the way to go with any frame. Try an Radial Blind build, that makes Excal at least as usefull as Loki.

[ThePresident777]

I'm voting No on "all the difficulty comes from planning".  "All the difficulty comes from planning" is not in the category of "Fixing The Core Gameplay Elements Of Warframe" at all.  Warframe is advertised as fast and fluid, ninja, coop, action, etc. and "press-button-to-win style" fits perfectly in that where as "all the difficulty comes from planning" does not.  "All the difficulty comes from planning" is a strategy game, not an action game.

Making the movement more fast and fluid, more urgent, getting rid of pauses and slow downs in between actions is in the category of "Fixing The Core Gameplay Elements Of Warframe".  Slow, inactive, is for Dark Souls.  Warframe is not Dark Souls.  I find Dark Souls thoroughly boring.

Edited July 3, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Grulos]

Excalibur ist on paar with does frames, you just have to figuer out how do use him to his limits and no ulti spamming is not always the way to go with any frame. Try an Radial Blind build, that makes Excal at least as usefull as Loki.

Great, then you just spam Radial Blind. How is this different from spamming your ult?

[Kuestenjung]

"OP: Please fix the core game mechanics but I don´t know what´s broken so I cannot give constructive feedback."

[Sta1kher]

So far thru 4 pages of whining and *@##$ing about the game and such, there's one major conclusion I've come too. QUIT BLAMING OTHERS! Damn people, do you realize how long it takes just to implement a simple bug fix? Sure, on a small project it can only take a few days but this is a massive game/program that probably has a few billion lines of code. How many of you realize that one "simple" fix can take days if not weeks to find and just simply trying to fix that problem can lead to others. Nothing is perfect right off the bat, look at the Diablo III launch. Please give these people the time and space needed to sort out the problems. Not everything is going to get fixed right away, and some things might not be such a problem that they need to be fixed right away.

 

If anyone here is a programmer/graphic design artist/webmaster you'd understand where they come from. Hell it took me over 5 months to complete just a simple walking mechanism in a game I developed back in high school. So please just please understand that they work diligently for you guys and you simply come on the forums and complain. Hell if I was DE I'd pull all recourses and bail leaving you guys high and dry. They want this game to be a massive success and your guys' UNconstructive critism isn't helping.

[Innocent_Flower]

Kubrow Team does not represent the full development effort, it's just one of the first 'new' things in a bit so it does have a lot of us excited, but we understand it's not for everyone.

 

Simultaneous development is occurring on (but not limited to by any means, just examples):

 

- Complete navigation/UI overhaul (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/253837-lets-meet-pablo-and-dorian/).

- New 'New Player Experience' to address longstanding issues with our NPE.

- Quest System fundamentals - the understanding here is that this will allow for systemic quests with more meaningful gameplay (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249863-thank-you-for-watching-devstream-31/).

- New Mission Types polishing and testing (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249909-hive-sabotage-design-and-overview/).

- Dark Sector conflict Revamp/Improvements.

- Reworking Valkyr's Hysteria

 

And plenty more! There is definitely a lot to be worked on, and a lot of compelling feedback on things like Mods 2.0, Ammo 2.0 and more! We definitely still have our work cut out for us.

aye, but the issue is that kubrows takes a lot of technical skill. Mods and ammo? Considerably less. 

[Lilybun]

Kubrow Team does not represent the full development effort, it's just one of the first 'new' things in a bit so it does have a lot of us excited, but we understand it's not for everyone.

 

Simultaneous development is occurring on (but not limited to by any means, just examples):

 

- Complete navigation/UI overhaul (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/253837-lets-meet-pablo-and-dorian/).

- New 'New Player Experience' to address longstanding issues with our NPE.

- Quest System fundamentals - the understanding here is that this will allow for systemic quests with more meaningful gameplay (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249863-thank-you-for-watching-devstream-31/).

- New Mission Types polishing and testing (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249909-hive-sabotage-design-and-overview/).

- Dark Sector conflict Revamp/Improvements.

- Reworking Valkyr's Hysteria

 

And plenty more! There is definitely a lot to be worked on, and a lot of compelling feedback on things like Mods 2.0, Ammo 2.0 and more! We definitely still have our work cut out for us.

What about powercreep? What about the excessive amount of RNG? What about the ridiculous orokin cell requirements? What about having to potato and forma both prime and non-prime version of the same weapon. I really would love to see a dev try and get a

paris prime or something as a fresh account and see how long it takes WITHOUT adding anything on to your account with dev shenanigans.

 

RNG =/= endgame

[ShadowCore67]

What about powercreep? What about the excessive amount of RNG? What about the ridiculous orokin cell requirements? What about having to potato and forma both prime and non-prime version of the same weapon. I really would love to see a dev try and get a

paris prime or something as a fresh account and see how long it takes WITHOUT adding anything on to your account with dev shenanigans.

 

RNG =/= endgame

 

I think you're being a little too demanding of DE. They're working their hardest to make this game the best for us. Last major update was focused around a completely restyled gameplay element. What's the problem if this update is focused a little more on new gameplay content?

 

Like Rebecca said they have multiple teams working on aspects of the game, They're working on what you so eagerly want right now, it's just not going to be the core focus of this next update.

Edited July 1, 2014 by ShadowCore67

[chaotea]

This is probably the biggest problem I have with kubrows. Don't get me wrong they're cute as hell and they look relatively entertaining, but after two (two!) devstreams essentially hyping how much work got put into kubrows and how in-depth they are, it makes me a little angry that we still have a market full of wildly-priced items, broken endgame scaling, useless weapons and unbalanced frame abilities, and overall lackluster recent additions.

 

But hey, space dogs. 

Youve got to think about it broader. When they first announced sentinels, everyone was all 'great, pets, but why arnt the fundamentals being worked on'. However sentinels are now a core part of the game. Anyway, the people who work on game improvements and fixes arnt going to be the same people who make new content. The games still in beta after all.

[RedMasa]

Great post op, I hate kubrows, I hate seeing them hyped in the forum I hate that time is being put into yet another "pet."

 

No thanks, I already have a sentinel.

[Lilybun]

I think you're being a little too demanding of DE. They're working their hardest to make this game the best for us. Last major update was focused around a completely restyled gameplay element. What's the problem if this update is focused a little more on new gameplay content?

 

Like Rebecca said they have multiple teams working on aspects of the game, They're working on what you so eagerly want right now, it's just not going to be the core focus of this next update.

I think you are being far too kind and giving them the empty praise they don't need. They are working their hardest to make a short-sighted cash grab fo all I see. At least that's what seems to be the number one priority of the game. Lots of cosmetics, lots of dye palettes, lots of dangly bits and hard-to-grind-because-of-rng powercreeped weapons that you can buy instantly with platinum. Improvement of new player experience supports this revenue model. Don't get me wrong it's a great thing to have a good new player experience but they are just trying to get people hooked enough to buy plat and after that it's good riddance or buy more overpowered weapons. It may sound harsh but there's no reason to believe this isn't their main focus based on what they have done for the longest time

 

People have been asking for this stuff in beta and they said no and now they decided to do it in a pretty half-assed way. The combo system in melee 2.0 is very simplified to the point it makes no real sense to have them be combos. People asked this stuff a year ago and none of it has been adressed. You can't make a weapon that's better no matter what way you look at it and say it's not powercreep

 

And not to sound like a complete A******, I gotta say their content looks amazing as do the new tilesets, frames and weapons, but the gameplay itself lacks substance

[SoulEchelon]

Great post op, I hate kubrows, I hate seeing them hyped in the forum I hate that time is being put into yet another "pet."

 

No thanks, I already have a sentinel.

 

K, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However that's all you're entitled to. People don't seem to understand this, and believe their opinions are more important than everyone else's. This is false, and you'd be wise to realize that.

 

 

 

I think you are being far too kind and giving them the empty praise they don't need. They are working their hardest to make a short-sighted cash grab fo all I see. At least that's what seems to be the number one priority of the game. Lots of cosmetics, lots of dye palettes, lots of dangly bits and hard-to-grind-because-of-rng powercreeped weapons that you can buy instantly with platinum. Improvement of new player experience supports this revenue model. Don't get me wrong it's a great thing to have a good new player experience but they are just trying to get people hooked enough to buy plat and after that it's good riddance or buy more overpowered weapons. It may sound harsh but there's no reason to believe this isn't their main focus based on what they have done for the longest time

 

People have been asking for this stuff in beta and they said no and now they decided to do it in a pretty half-assed way. The combo system in melee 2.0 is very simplified to the point it makes no real sense to have them be combos. People asked this stuff a year ago and none of it has been adressed. You can't make a weapon that's better no matter what way you look at it and say it's not powercreep

 

And not to sound like a complete A******, I gotta say their content looks amazing as do the new tilesets, frames and weapons, but the gameplay itself lacks substance

You're right. This gaming company shouldn't be trying to make both a fun and exciting FREE game as well as incentive to give them money in the way of cosmetics. Wait, what? You can craft every single weapon/warframe, and can potentially buy everything cash oriented in the game without actually spending cash? There's no P2W unlike billions of other F2P titles?  Hmm.... I sense a discrepancy.

Edited July 1, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[NevanChambers]

Yeah, Ninja Gaiden has power creep. Right.

Oh for the love of.... Fine: All games with ongoing development the purpose of which is to release a stream of continuing content here represented by expanding online games including but not limited to mmorpgs but excluding single player contained experiences for which little to no future content is planned or in development for contain to some lesser or greater degree power creep.

There is that better now? You don't have to use any critical thinking to get the op's meaning.

[nefrai]

I get this feeling that some gamers think the whole team works on the same thing. There are many parts and pieces to these teams, they are all working on various projects. Programmers can't all work on the same thing, that's like telling 20 people to write a movie script - it would be fragments that don't go together. You aren't going to tell the sound team to go work on mods, or the animators to go fix a crappy sound bug. They are attacking multiple issues with multiple teams, that's just how it works. This isn't magic, it's humans trying to work out real issues and build something that takes effort and time. It's easy as an outsider to say "Hey, just fix that, do that, it's 'simple'!"...When you have no idea how a game company even works or how to build a game.

 

If they felt they needed more people on a specific project that has higher priority they will pull people from other teams as needed. Your so-called issues of RNG and mods (mechanics), are issues to you - DE may not consider them issues, or not a big issue at this point. Messing with a database table and building Kubrows have pretty much....nothing to do with each other. The people working on designing and implementing Kubrows likely know nothing about RNG tables, mods, or other mechanics that need tweaking, because they are designing - that's their job. It's like I work in enterprise networking, and then a person coming up to me and asking me to set up their home router - I work on Cisco devices and set up world wide networks; just because your home router is a part of "networking", it has nothing to do with what I consider "networking". Similar technology, different specific fields. 

Edited July 1, 2014 by nefrai

[Tsunero]

So far thru 4 pages of whining and *@##$ing about the game and such, there's one major conclusion I've come too. QUIT BLAMING OTHERS! Damn people, do you realize how long it takes just to implement a simple bug fix? Sure, on a small project it can only take a few days but this is a massive game/program that probably has a few billion lines of code. How many of you realize that one "simple" fix can take days if not weeks to find and just simply trying to fix that problem can lead to others. Nothing is perfect right off the bat, look at the Diablo III launch. Please give these people the time and space needed to sort out the problems. Not everything is going to get fixed right away, and some things might not be such a problem that they need to be fixed right away.

 

If anyone here is a programmer/graphic design artist/webmaster you'd understand where they come from. Hell it took me over 5 months to complete just a simple walking mechanism in a game I developed back in high school. So please just please understand that they work diligently for you guys and you simply come on the forums and complain. Hell if I was DE I'd pull all recourses and bail leaving you guys high and dry. They want this game to be a massive success and your guys' UNconstructive critism isn't helping.

 

And that's the core problem, they are labeling huge problems as "not important" ones and giving priority to useless stuff like Kubrows.

[What_is_your_ip]

Shouldn't there be more priority on making what's already here fun and engaging, as opposed to the press-button-to-win style we have now, where all the difficulty comes from planning?

Your a funny guy. Look everyone he made a funny.

[SoulEchelon]

And that's the core problem, they are labeling huge problems as "not important" ones and giving priority to useless stuff like Kubrows.

 

First page, and it's been quoted a thousand times in this thread already.

 

 

Kubrow Team does not represent the full development effort, it's just one of the first 'new' things in a bit so it does have a lot of us excited, but we understand it's not for everyone.

 

Simultaneous development is occurring on (but not limited to by any means, just examples):

 

- Complete navigation/UI overhaul (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/253837-lets-meet-pablo-and-dorian/).

- New 'New Player Experience' to address longstanding issues with our NPE.

- Quest System fundamentals - the understanding here is that this will allow for systemic quests with more meaningful gameplay (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249863-thank-you-for-watching-devstream-31/).

- New Mission Types polishing and testing (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249909-hive-sabotage-design-and-overview/).

- Dark Sector conflict Revamp/Improvements.

- Reworking Valkyr's Hysteria

 

And plenty more! There is definitely a lot to be worked on, and a lot of compelling feedback on things like Mods 2.0, Ammo 2.0 and more! We definitely still have our work cut out for us.

 

Just because the kubrows are a popular talking point doesn't mean that's all they're working on.

[nefrai]

K, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However that's all you're entitled to. People don't seem to understand this, and believe their opinions are more important than everyone else's. This is false, and you'd be wise to realize that.

 

 

 

You're right. This gaming company shouldn't be trying to make both a fun and exciting FREE game as well as incentive to give them money in the way of cosmetics. Wait, what? You can craft every single weapon/warframe, and can potentially buy everything cash oriented in the game without actually spending cash? There's no P2W unlike billions of other F2P titles?  Hmm.... I sense a discrepancy.

Agreed. I have friends who have 10k plat, and only spend it on slots, they farm everything else because - surprise, they just like playing the game. 

This is what I don't get - people want a reason to play, but hate RNG. They want to work for special items based on forum posts, but call it a cash-grab when DE makes them work for it. They say DE just wants their money and that's all they care about, when they have the option to play the game for free, and none of those 'primes' even matter to gameplay - I can use a base Mag with basic guns and kill anything in this game. But...DE is somehow "forcing" me to play the game to farm items, or I have to give them money. Maybe DE is also trying to give people a reason to play, that's what RNG often is actually for - a reason to keep hopping on the game.

 

What happens when these people get all the items they want?  They say they have nothing to do, and wait for the next update. DE really can't win with "fans" like that. They want it all now, but at the same time want a reason to play. This game was not designed originally to have end game and true depth - it was a small project that grew really fast. They are having to actively think up and build depth and end game, it's not going to happen overnight. Remember the humble beginnings of maybe 5 Frames and 2 tilesets when I started - even to idea of just having any secret rooms in a level was something to look forward to. This game has grown immensely, and has more to go. I was a fan when this game barely had any options at all, and still a fan today. RNG doesn't bother me, but that might be due to playing Korean games for over 12 years, lol.

[(PSN)jboogibeats20]

Regaurdless if anybody likes it or not kubrows will be in the game and won't be taken out, so suck it up and just enjoy warframe.... oh and stop complaining about insta killers cause in the long run in a t3 defence or survival there one hitter quiters won't last long. just sayin

Edited July 1, 2014 by (PS4)jboogibeats20

[SoulEchelon]

Agreed. I have friends who have 10k plat, and only spend it on slots, they farm everything else because - surprise, they just like playing the game. 

This is what I don't get - people want a reason to play, but hate RNG. They want to work for special items based on forum posts, but call it a cash-grab when DE makes them work for it. They say DE just wants their money and that's all they care about, when they have the option to play the game for free, and none of those 'primes' even matter to gameplay - I can use a base Mag with basic guns and kill anything in this game. But...DE is somehow "forcing" me to play the game to farm items, or I have to give them money. Maybe DE is also trying to give people a reason to play, that's what RNG often is actually for - a reason to keep hopping on the game.

 

What happens when these people get all the items they want?  They say they have nothing to do, and wait for the next update. DE really can't win with "fans" like that. They want it all now, but at the same time want a reason to play. This game was not designed originally to have end game and true depth - it was a small project that grew really fast. They are having to actively think up and build depth and end game, it's not going to happen overnight. Remember the humble beginnings of maybe 5 Frames and 2 tilesets when I started - even to idea of just having any secret rooms in a level was something to look forward to. This game has grown immensely, and has more to go. I was a fan when this game barely had any options at all, and still a fan today. RNG doesn't bother me, but that might be due to playing Korean games for over 12 years, lol.

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

I totally remember those old days as well. The 2 tilesets, the small handful of warframes, the feeling of discovery when finding those secret little nooks and crannies for the first time. Heh, I even remember the upgrade tree system we had. But this isn't all through rose-tinted glasses. Warframe has only gotten better since then. Bigger, stronger..but still has its core values. I think that's what's the biggest problem. New players come in and seem to believe Warframe should be like -insert favorite game here- instead of WARFRAME. And they cry foul when DE doesn't sway far enough from their path to accommodate.

[Weird_Stealth]

And that's the core problem, they are labeling huge problems as "not important" ones and giving priority to useless stuff like Kubrows.

Just because you label a problem a "HUGE" problem doesn't mean they're labeling it the same, NOR does it mean they aren't working on it. And, as I've said, and others have said, Just because they aren't talking about it, or saying they're working on it, DOES NOT mean they're not aware of the problem, and not working on it. 

 

Also keep in mind, that what you find huge problems are Opinion, and what you may think is a huge problem may not be considered that big of a problem to someone else. And giving priority to useless stuff like kubrows? Do you eyes glaze over when you read someone stating that there aren't just one single team working on one single thing at a time? How many times do we need to point out that Animators, Modelers, Sound Crew, and Concept artists are not in any way shape or form GAME PROGRAMMERS. DE has Programmers, and those programmers are working on EVERYTHING, from the "useless" stuff, to the "HUGE" problems. Unlike you and others, I don't want DE to stop adding more content, because that means those people working in other areas are out of work, and I don't expect them to sit down at a work station and help fix the "Problems" because I don't want someone who knows nothing about programming, to be messing with the game's coding. 

[achromos]

What about powercreep? What about the excessive amount of RNG? What about the ridiculous orokin cell requirements? What about having to potato and forma both prime and non-prime version of the same weapon. I really would love to see a dev try and get a

paris prime or something as a fresh account and see how long it takes WITHOUT adding anything on to your account with dev shenanigans.

 

RNG =/= endgame

 

I cannot have it now.  I want it now! Give me it now! is all I hear when people talk about/like this...

 

 

Not saying you, but people who want to drain a game dry and get everything in one day... people who want INSTANT GRATIFICATION... they are parasites in my eyes that will leave the game the instant they get 'all the items they want anyway'

 

I got a Paris prime within my FIRST DAY of playing.  Orokin cells? I have 38 sitting tight and made everything I wanted to make.  Potatos? I have BOTH kinds in spades, and I am rank 11, I don't 'feel' like potatoing weapons I don't like, I don't need everything potatoed.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Sibarian