Why Are Kubrows More Important Than Fixing The Core Gameplay Elements Of Warframe?

[(PSN)MIA_Philly]

I'm assuming by "press button to win" stuff, you're referring to many warframes ultimates? I.E. Rhino Stomp, Molecular Prime(Which has been tweaked and works a bit better now), Blessing even? That is...rather honestly how they are to be played. Admittedly there are still warframes that need work, need balancing and ect so they are on a sorta equal level of effectiveness. Loki and Mag are starter frames, and a couple of the best frames in the game to be honest, Excalibur on the other hand, the freaking Icon warframe, is...not that great compared to the other two.

 

The way you worded it sounded like whining to be honest. Instead why not say "Hey, We have Kubrow's coming soon, but what about X, Y, Z, things that are still broken? Conclaves are still imbalanced, half of our melee weapons are mastery fodder, ect."

 

To be fair, RNG can be a evil, EVIL, bastard at times. Seriously, 15 runs on vay hek, no hydroid systems?! It stops being "Random Number Generation" after the 8th time in a ROW and just "Frak you, you aren't getting what you need to get hydroid."

 

Also there is this. Rebecca brings up a point not many realize when it comes to game developement. They only show what they WANT to show. Sure on the back end there are other things being worked on, but DE keeps it quiet until it's actually READY. Look at Melee 2.0. The original idea was to simply let players equip their melee weapon, that was it, nothing more. How ever hype got so up about it, that they changed their plan and made it something awesome. I mention this because they said they were working on a melee 2.0, and then it started the hype train which had them change plans. If they do this with other things, it may also occur "Oh, we are changing the mod system." Which could mean something as simple as rebalancing the mods, to a completely new way to put mods on our weapons, to even having different weapons/warframes having different amounts of slots.

I'm with you on some of this. First Excalibur is a mega weak frame to be the icon of the show. They say he is the most balanced but that's hog wash. that super jump needs to be turned into a completely different/new skill to make him in line with the other two starters. 

 

Also when it comes to supers, THEY ARE SUPERS! I don't know what you guys expect of an ultimate move especially when you keep running missions on Mercury. Plus I don't think people realize that those with maxed out heavy caliber and serration are in the minority. Most folks have these super mods half full of at least 3 from the top based on what it takes to max them out.  there are quite a few mods that take a lot of farming and use of forma to fit on frames that people do not do. So where you need harder things to do (and i'm sure you will have them soon) there are others that find the game plays just about right for them. I'd bet that there are plenty of people who haven't even unlocked all the nodes yet. I know i haven't simply because there is so much repetition that one planets survival is just as good as any others. 

 

By no means am I saying that the devs shouldn't add harder content but it shouldn't be the MAIN focus. NPE, tutorials, variety in weapons and new factions should be on the top of every warframe devs checklist. Then the rest 

[SoulEchelon]

 

Too bad they're doing all three of those things, thus this picture is invalid.

[RejectionOfFate]

Show me one of these systematically dealing a 13.000+pts of damages... :/

http://i.gyazo.com/c742f25e3f3fff59b1fc662e30450885.png

 

Hmmn?

 

Source Thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/254437-new-ogris-glaive-prime-build/

Edited July 17, 2014 by HiddenKharma

[ThanksDE]

Too bad they're doing all three of those things, thus this picture is invalid.

lal

[n0xi0us]

Alright, how about DE stops making anything new, after players have spent hundreds of hours in this game already, and fix the "core" problems that seemingly break the game to such a degree, that having new stuff to do comes second. Oh wait, I can't think of anything other than quality of life or stuff that people complain about that are there specifically to make you actually take a second beyond "see baddie, shoot baddie, loot, repeat". Sure, some of it can be considered shallow, but its a hell of a lot better than not having anything at all hindering our super-powered being.

 

U14 is an update. Kubrows are a talking point. Acting like DE hasn't been throwing in fixes weekly (unlike other game developers that can take months to do anything meaningful, much less if ever after years of it being pointed out [ladder bug in DDO.. been there since 2006, and STILL not fixed]) smacks of inability to think past ones nose. If DE canned all development on stuff just to fix the annoyances that seem to be so tremendous, that they ruin the game, people will far more likely quit due to nothing coming in than getting some fixes with the new stuff.

 

Then again, I am trying to use some semblance of logic and am only gonna get flagged a white knight because I don't agree with the detractors, but whatever. Is the game perfect? Nah.. then again I am enjoying what a company who started as an indie and managed to work full circle to start out their own project that they originally dreamed up on their own too much to gripe. And if tearing down the game is a sign of caring for the game, one might consider getting help. Being critical is one thing, but using any opportunity to attack people or a game, despite what the general consensus of this being the "internet" and all, ain't cool.

 

/hops off soapbox

[dashashou]

Alright, how about DE stops making anything new, after players have spent hundreds of hours in this game already, and fix the "core" problems that seemingly break the game to such a degree, that having new stuff to do comes second. Oh wait, I can't think of anything other than quality of life or stuff that people complain about that are there specifically to make you actually take a second beyond "see baddie, shoot baddie, loot, repeat". Sure, some of it can be considered shallow, but its a hell of a lot better than not having anything at all hindering our super-powered being.

 

U14 is an update. Kubrows are a talking point. Acting like DE hasn't been throwing in fixes weekly (unlike other game developers that can take months to do anything meaningful, much less if ever after years of it being pointed out [ladder bug in DDO.. been there since 2006, and STILL not fixed]) smacks of inability to think past ones nose. If DE canned all development on stuff just to fix the annoyances that seem to be so tremendous, that they ruin the game, people will far more likely quit due to nothing coming in than getting some fixes with the new stuff.

 

Then again, I am trying to use some semblance of logic and am only gonna get flagged a white knight because I don't agree with the detractors, but whatever. Is the game perfect? Nah.. then again I am enjoying what a company who started as an indie and managed to work full circle to start out their own project that they originally dreamed up on their own too much to gripe. And if tearing down the game is a sign of caring for the game, one might consider getting help. Being critical is one thing, but using any opportunity to attack people or a game, despite what the general consensus of this being the "internet" and all, ain't cool.

 

/hops off soapbox

 

 5 mins , 5 mins to buff all the throw away weapons. 

 5 mins to  fix the weird melee varying  speeds.

 5 mins  to make def / interception additive .

 5 mins  to add back core features -  seeing team mates through walls , return the Z box back.

 5 mins  to remove shotgun/sniper  ammo  from the drop pool.

 5 mins to restore the void drop table and remove Cells

 5 mins to give up over heat back 

 

 

i could go on but . as you said " If DE canned all development on stuff just to fix the annoyances that seem to be so tremendous, that they ruin the game, people will far more likely quit due to nothing coming in than getting some fixes with the new stuff. " 

 

if the patient if bleeding out  the first step u do is stop the bleeding  ;  that is what the OP , and all the voices crying out for fixing over new content are saying .   It's all  those  little annoyances that have  turn clans dojos  in cenotaphs 

[aoguro]

....... - Reworking Valkyr's Hysteria

 

And plenty more! There is definitely a lot to be worked on, and a lot of compelling feedback on things like Mods 2.0, Ammo 2.0 and more! We definitely still have our work cut out for us.

 

please dont take away or change anything from valkyrs hysteria-power, mainly give more time to use it :-)))

 

about anything else, thanks for your work and development

 

you will never be able to fullfill every player and the older expirienced pro's: i cant care about because im on my first steps into the void allready, i need farm for more and better good and very good mods, im learning about warframe and mods and this will keep me running for shure a few month more until im able to share what OP and other are sharing here ...

[Shifted]

 5 mins

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[SanityRobot]

They have never been about fixing content,

 

Their standard mode has always been "pump out as much content as possible and hype the hell out of it, ignore backlash, and move on to the next big thing". Not sure why you'd expect this update to be different.

 

If the core engine wasn't phenomenal, I'd have quit looking at this game long ago. Nowadays I just log in after every big update, spend 3-4 days checking out the new shinies, then quit playing until the next numbered update.

Edited July 17, 2014 by SanityRobot

[SanityRobot]

There are a lot of issues to be address with this game and issues that should be fixed over the creation of new weapons and warframes, completely agree. Check this out: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/262291-casual-afternoon-turns-to-be-leader-board-run/

 

Fixing content doesn't sell platinum.

[SoulEchelon]

 5 mins , 5 mins to buff all the throw away weapons. 

 5 mins to  fix the weird melee varying  speeds.

 5 mins  to make def / interception additive .

 5 mins  to add back core features -  seeing team mates through walls , return the Z box back.

 5 mins  to remove shotgun/sniper  ammo  from the drop pool.

 5 mins to restore the void drop table and remove Cells

 5 mins to give up over heat back

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who has absolutely NO idea how game development works.

 

Also, the fact that you want Overheat back makes your post all the more roflworthy.

 

Edit: I'll just..break it down.

 

1. There are many weapons that players consider "throw aways". It would take FAR longer than 5 minutes just to buff ONE of them and make sure it's balanced.

 

2.. I have no idea why you'd want to change the variation of melee speeds. Do you want to make this game even MORE monotonous?

 

3. Making Defense/Survival additive would mean rebalancing the rewards as well as the amount given per 5 waves/minutes. If it's additive, they may actually have to reduce the droprates of already rare items.

 

4. Do you even know what goes into "core features"? Seeing players through walls is not a "core feature". Frankly I think people just call everything THEY think is important a "core feature" when it obviously isn't.

 

5. Why would you want to remove shotgun/sniper ammo from drops? What about people that use that ammo? What the hell are you smoking? Why am I wasting my time with this post?

 

6. Remove cells? Because YOU don't need them? Think outside of your damned box. There are others who play this game, you know.

 

7. I've already said my piece about Overheat.

 

There, I've explained. Wasted enough time on this.

Edited July 17, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[Zubaz]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who has absolutely NO idea how game development works.

 

Also, the fact that you want Overheat back makes your post all the more roflworthy.

 

To be honest most of them would take a lot less then 5 minutes.

[SoulEchelon]

They have never been about fixing content,

 

Their standard mode has always been "pump out as much content as possible and hype the hell out of it, ignore backlash, and move on to the next big thing". Not sure why you'd expect this update to be different.

 

Gee I wonder what was in the updates the last two weeks? Fixes. Nothing but fixes. No "content".

 

Gee I wonder what was in every single weekly update, followed by sometimes near immediate hotfixes? Content...AND fixes. Please, PLEASE show me just -one- update thread that did not have any fixes at all. Just content. Show me it. Until then, your post is invalid.

 

Also, they don't ignore backlash. At all. Just look at the last devstream as proof. Rebecca doesn't mince words nor does she weed out the "hard" questions in her Q&A towards the devs. And every time there IS a huge backlash, they acknowledge it and see what they can do to both use player input as well as keep the game balanced. Rhino, Frost, Ember, and Nova's changes are all an example of this. A long while back, auras weren't mod cards. They were actual auras, and there was a huge backlash when they were changed and implemented into cards that required mod capacity. DE acknowledged this, and made it so that they GAVE mod capacity. See how they don't ignore backlash?

 

I swear it's like talking to a wall with these people sometimes.

 

To be honest most of them would take a lot less then 5 minutes.

 

No. No they wouldn't.

 

Changing something in a game like this one isn't as simple as editting in a few new numerical values. Everything is effected. Changing something in one area could make things imbalanced in another. "Oh the devs can change this in 5 minutes" is the stupidest, most ignorant freakin' thing I have ever heard. And trust me on this, because I was once a dev admin for an online game. Everything needs to be checked, and checked again, and tested, and so on when something is changed. Let's not even mention having to get in contact with the other dev teams that may be affected as well by any of these changes.

 

5 minutes? Really? Some of the smallest things you can think of can take days to be correctly fixed or changed.

 

Also, I editted my post towards that other guy. Enjoy. Now I'm leaving this thread for the night before I lose too many more brain cells.

[GlamourChariot]

Too bad they're doing all three of those things, thus this picture is invalid.

 

Too bad you're being a massive suck up, thus your opinion is invalid.

 

Getting defensive over criticism solves nothing, it just makes you look ignorant.

 

 

People call out stupid things about the game because they like it and want it fixed, not to tarnish the reputation of the developers or their products.

 

The latter does however come into play when they start ignoring legitimate criticisms in favour of pretending they're the best around.

[SoulEchelon]

Too bad you're being a massive suck up, thus your opinion is invalid.

 

Dammit, I just haaad to refresh this page.

 

The fact that all you can say is "you're a suck up" means you have no comeback. I've given DE tons of criticism, and have even raged at them for certain changes they've done to this game that I disagreed with. But when it comes to content updates and fixes, they have so far been efficient, and I'll happily defend them against idiotic statements like HURRDURR THIS CAN ALL BE FIXED IN 5 MINUTES DERPAHERPA.

 

So go ahead, continue to insult my intelligence just because I'm not a bandwagoner. Or are you going to grow a pair and actually refute the factual evidence I've posted? I'll check in the morning.

[GlamourChariot]

Dammit, I just haaad to refresh this page.

 

The fact that all you can say is "you're a suck up" means you have no comeback. I've given DE tons of criticism, and have even raged at them for certain changes they've done to this game that I disagreed with. But when it comes to content updates and fixes, they have so far been efficient, and I'll happily defend them against idiotic statements like HURRDURR THIS CAN ALL BE FIXED IN 5 MINUTES DERPAHERPA.

 

So go ahead, continue to insult my intelligence just because I'm not a bandwagoner. Or are you going to grow a pair and actually refute the factual evidence I've posted? I'll check in the morning.

 

Shill on, friend. 

 

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

[(NSW)LilVanu]

Too bad you're being a massive suck up, thus your opinion is invalid.

 

Getting defensive over criticism solves nothing, it just makes you look ignorant.

 

 

People call out stupid things about the game because they like it and want it fixed, not to tarnish the reputation of the developers or their products.

 

The latter does however come into play when they start ignoring legitimate criticisms in favour of pretending they're the best around.

 

 

Let the hype crash and burn!

You're all expecting it to be what you want it too and when the hype doesn't make it to your expectations it eventually just leaves you disappointed.

 

Sutherland s Predictions for this major update!

- People will start making hype threads.

- People will be shocked by DE when they tell them the update won't be coming this week!

- People will start arguing when it will/won't come.

- When released people will get angry because it didn't live up to the hype and will make rant posts that are between10-1500 words long expressing said issues whilst people in response "debate" each others arguments denying each parties points resorting in both sides getting extremely angry and calling each other nicknames.

- One person will be labeled a White Knight even despite having fair points

- At least 5 people will get a warning point in the megathread of update 14 because they were stupid.

- At least 24 posts will be merged on the day of release resulting in one of the moderators to cower in there bedroom with a tub of Vanilla Icecream in hand.

- One of the developers will say something by accident resulting in people getting the wrong idea about the update. Resulting in said people making a number of threads about it without realizing it may have/not been a joke.

- There will be 1 game breaking bug in the update that means many players will once again be very angry.

- Sutherland will say "I told you so" because she was right the whole time.

- This post will be ignored and I will have to quote it later on when once again I was proven right.

- Maniacs trying to crash the hype train by spreading false information.*

 

Check. Another one already. Update 14 hasn't even arrived yet.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Sutherland

[Venarge]

 5 mins , 5 mins to buff all the throw away weapons. 

 5 mins to  fix the weird melee varying  speeds.

 5 mins  to make def / interception additive .

 5 mins  to add back core features -  seeing team mates through walls , return the Z box back.

 5 mins  to remove shotgun/sniper  ammo  from the drop pool.

 5 mins to restore the void drop table and remove Cells

 5 mins to give up over heat back 

 

No pls. No. You cant actually believe that this simply takes 5 mins? Pls. Dont tell me you really think like that.

If you do so. Pls. Think again before writing something so hilarious.....

[xXHunterzzzXx]

Lol the biggest problem in this game is rng and diversity.. Im trying to get hate for one year lol ..,.

[xXHunterzzzXx]

5 mins , 5 mins to buff all the throw away weapons. 

 5 mins to  fix the weird melee varying  speeds.

 5 mins  to make def / interception additive .

 5 mins  to add back core features -  seeing team mates through walls , return the Z box back.

 5 mins  to remove shotgun/sniper  ammo  from the drop pool.

 5 mins to restore the void drop table and remove Cells

 5 mins to give up over heat back 

 

 

i could go on but . as you said " If DE canned all development on stuff just to fix the annoyances that seem to be so tremendous, that they ruin the game, people will far more likely quit due to nothing coming in than getting some fixes with the new stuff. " 

 

if the patient if bleeding out  the first step u do is stop the bleeding  ;  that is what the OP , and all the voices crying out for fixing over new content are saying .   It's all  those  little annoyances that have  turn clans dojos  in cenotaphs

Laughable post really xDD it like the guy on other post which wrote a 5line code for hosts to not lag or something xD

[K_Shiro]

Just gona jump in here and say something that should be obvious.

 

A game like Warframes is big. What one person considers to be a major issue may be a triviality to the next. That said, even if the dev team focused exclusively on "fixing these core issues" the community comes up with, the game would have all development stop for several months/years. Because the community is dumb as ****. Fixing one thing usually ends up causing another issue that will get on another person's nerves, and the cycle repeats itself. As for the actual issues that do need fixing, who's to say they aren't trying to fix them?

 

Just because it's not insta-fixed doesn't mean it's not happening. Most of the time, you need several other fixes to be done in order to implement another, otherwise the planned fix just wouldn't work. (In simple terms, like tearing down support structures to a house to make a larger room. You need to build new ones before taking them down or the house crumbles) That, or the solution itself is not as simple as people think it is. Complicated to a point where the devs don't even know how to properly fix it yet. Doesn't mean they aren't thinking about it or trying to think of a better alternative.

 

The point to all this is that they need to work on progressing the game's content AND fixing issues on the way, at least till the game's full release where content update will assuredly slow down. Get the stuff in the game fast, worry about making it work later is how games that aren't on full release usually do it. Early access to the game like Warframes does forces them to make sure the game is stable while doing so, but that's it. (and this slows down development considerably) As far as I know, there is no crippling issue to the game atm. People play it, and still enjoy it. It has several small flaws to it, but nothing that halts progress. They are working on it.

 

You are right and wrong. As someone who did game programming, I can assure you, there are tons of things in the game that can be fixed relatively fast - like weapon balance and even a ton of abilities that don't need all that much tweaking. Yes, there are a lot of ideas and assumptions floating around the forums and no way they can do all of those without wasting a ton of time and causing other issues. But things like mentioned balancing (so that not only the newest weapons can be properly used... remember stuff like Spectra, Flux, Acrid and a ton others?) are easy to fix (just statistics, however you look at it) and would have a relatively big impact on gaming experience (I know 3-4 people just from my circle who left the game precisely because their 3-8 times forma(tt)ed weapons were nerfed to oblivion and there came a new gun which had better stats on rank0 without mods...

 

So overall you are right that while DE is practically forced to implement new stuff and can't just go around fixing everything at the snap of their finger but I understand that the OP feels depressed that even very basic things don't seem to progress most of the time (we had to wait months to get an option to disable the so useful "vaulting" move where the character jumps over railing and smaller objects usually messing up your jump if you wanted to parkour or something... though making it activate when you are in the same position NOT running could have been better, at least we got something).

 

Well, let's hope for the best in U14! But prepare ourselves for the worst...

 

Glaive/ Glaive Prime/ Kestrel + Power Throw.

 

Melee Boom.

 

Well, weapon balancing at it's finest. Though Glaive and Kestrel are only technically melee weapons if we use power throw...

Edited July 17, 2014 by K_Shiro

[xXHunterzzzXx]

I like how yoy think people when you say that half of things in warframe can be fixed in 5 minutes ,and that they dont need tweaking it really funny to read.1-2 people here in forums are actually maybe know programming ,while other people just dont know programming and copy paste the words.. I like what you think about the game even that its beta you want it to be like BF4 lol... Just say thanks that its a free to play game,with the best DE ever seen,with the best donate system.. You people really are dumb you think that DE dont know that they have such problems as Immortal skins,bugs,etc? Really just stop saying idiotism DE are implementing what they come up first then polish it like it wat with the old UI then new UI(now) and the newest coming in U14.I just cant read people saying it takes 5 minutes to fix that and that without even knowing how everything was made.If you so pro go make your own game and not just say bad about DE.

[SanityRobot]

You are right and wrong. As someone who did game programming, I can assure you, there are tons of things in the game that can be fixed relatively fast - like weapon balance and even a ton of abilities that don't need all that much tweaking. Yes, there are a lot of ideas and assumptions floating around the forums and no way they can do all of those without wasting a ton of time and causing other issues. But things like mentioned balancing (so that not only the newest weapons can be properly used... remember stuff like Spectra, Flux, Acrid and a ton others?) are easy to fix (just statistics, however you look at it) and would have a relatively big impact on gaming experience (I know 3-4 people just from my circle who left the game precisely because their 3-8 times forma(tt)ed weapons were nerfed to oblivion and there came a new gun which had better stats on rank0 without mods...

 

Yeah...no.

 

Balancing can't just be done relatively quickly. Many games have spent years trying to get balance right. It's a near impossible feat. Not saying I wouldn't mind them at least making an attempt at it, but saying it's something that they could just quickly do is flat out incorrect.

 

That said, DE has made it pretty clear that they don't want to balance the game. They want to keep adding newer and stronger weapons so people are compelled to keep buying platinum instead of grind for months. Power creep be damned. Their marketing department is amazing, though, the way they manage to always build hype around everything is quite impressive.

Edited July 17, 2014 by SanityRobot

[Kaotyke]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235599-friendly-reminder/?hl=%2Bfriendly+%2Breminder

I've been reading a whole lot of people lately saying that keep saying DE needs to "stop doing X and work on Y".

 

The problem is, this seems to stem from thinking of DE as a singular entity, like one lonely person, coding everything all by themselves.

 

It's not.

 

There are multiple teams of multiple people working on every facet of the game.

 

Lucy is a brilliant animator. She is not really able to code drop table algorithms.

 

Skree is a brilliant level designer. He is not really able to perform weapon debugging procedures.

 

There's an entire sound team that just makes audio effects for the game. None of them have expressed any computer literacy at all beyond mad dj sound remixing talent.

 

Megan isn't really able to design new multi-layered AI sub-routines.

 

Rebecca isn't really able to smooth out physics engine instabilities.

 

This is just a fistful of people out of the 100+ employees at DE, all of them who are highly unqualified to work on a myriad of projects.

 

Are they downright fantastic at their actual jobs? Yes!

 

Will having them "stop doing" whatever it is they were hired to do, and instead work on w/e the heck YOU think is much more valuable than what they do actually get any progress out of them? Not really.

 

Could they be fired, and replaced with new employees who DO exactly what you want? Well, yes, but that is the swiftest way to shatter company morale, so you'll still see far less progress.

 

So, ultimately, Is there any way, shape, or form, that "stop X to do Y instead" even remotely makes the teeniest tiniest bit of quasi-logic? Not in a trillion years.

 

Yet, people keep saying it. Please don't.

 

It makes you look dumb. It's at least a tad demoralizing to the people at DE that read the forums only to hear that, in your eyes, their job is totally worthless.

 

There's absolutely no positive outcome, at all, whatsoever, from you saying this, except for whatever tiny fractional ego boost you got out of typing it. Honestly, you don't deserve that ego boost, so that's really a negative outcome.

 

Funny enough, as you are an individual, rather than a massive collective of teams of people, you, personally, DO have the option of "stop X and do Y instead". So, stop being a jerk, and be helpful instead.

 

Thanks.

[SoulEchelon]

Shill on, friend. 

 

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

 

You're the pinnacle of it, so I guess you would know.