Why Are Kubrows More Important Than Fixing The Core Gameplay Elements Of Warframe?

[dashashou]

to answer  the op , cause there  going to be buy able skins and armor attachments to add to your kubrows , and probability  plat kubrow slots  while fixing core game play would  not generate as much revenue in the short term .  

 

Plus  kubrows ability mods will further diluted the drop tables , which i'm assuming DE   views as not a problem 

 

 

 

Haha, like how I seem to have 131 Well of Life mods. 

at 1147 well of life mods here 

[CedarDpg]

Ouch. Lots of uber useless extras right there. :)

[Beas7ie]

Kubrow Team does not represent the full development effort, it's just one of the first 'new' things in a bit so it does have a lot of us excited, but we understand it's not for everyone.

 

Simultaneous development is occurring on (but not limited to by any means, just examples):

 

- Complete navigation/UI overhaul (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/253837-lets-meet-pablo-and-dorian/).

- New 'New Player Experience' to address longstanding issues with our NPE.

- Quest System fundamentals - the understanding here is that this will allow for systemic quests with more meaningful gameplay (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249863-thank-you-for-watching-devstream-31/).

- New Mission Types polishing and testing (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249909-hive-sabotage-design-and-overview/).

- Dark Sector conflict Revamp/Improvements.

- Reworking Valkyr's Hysteria

 

And plenty more! There is definitely a lot to be worked on, and a lot of compelling feedback on things like Mods 2.0, Ammo 2.0 and more! We definitely still have our work cut out for us.

Fair enough, but at the same time I recall during a livestream it being mentioned that the kubrows are the most complicated and advanced thing in the game to date.

 

If this is true then I still have a lot of concerns about the direction this game is heading.  When there are many core problems that need to be fixed and many other new features that should be implemented, and the "most advanced and complicated" thing is the damn space dogs, then that's a problem.

[GreyEnneract]

Fair enough, but at the same time I recall during a livestream it being mentioned that the kubrows are the most complicated and advanced thing in the game to date.

 

If this is true then I still have a lot of concerns about the direction this game is heading.  When there are many core problems that need to be fixed and many other new features that should be implemented, and the "most advanced and complicated" thing is the damn space dogs, then that's a problem.

That was referring to their AI.

Not the Kubrows as a whole.

[HimitsuDragon]

Here's how I see it step by step.

 

First, New content is a must to keep players interested. This is a unavoidable.

 

New content inevitably causes changes to game mechanics and flow.

 

These changes can also effect the viability of current game play, weapons, powers and ect.

 

With a constant flow of content, it's hard to constantly rebalance the game every time.

 

That and DE watches how the current and new content reacts to each other and how players handle the changes.

 

So instead of rebalancing the game after every update, they add content till an issue arises that can't be ignored and then fix it.

 

So far the year I've been playing I've seen a steady flow of content and rebalancing and the game only continues to improve (despite it's occasional slips, trips and out right crashes)

 

Keep up the good work DE.

Edited July 2, 2014 by HimitsuDragon

[buriburi]

WHY ARE KUBROWS MORE IMPORTANT

 

The Answer is pretty obvious: 

 

You will be able to customize your Kubrow, which means they will add cosmetics that means ppl will spend plat which means money for the DE vault. 

 

I assume they will add everything you can use for your warframes: Color Pallets, syndanas, maybe even stuff which is not in warframe till now: like eye patches or hats (not a joke).

 

Plus if you want your kubrow to stay alive you have to login everyday

[NikolaiLev]

Shouldn't there be more priority on making what's already here fun and engaging, as opposed to the press-button-to-win style we have now, where all the difficulty comes from planning?

 

Well, no.  Even Rebecca's post has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.  The mindless, gear-based horde mode gameplay seems to be something DE is insistent on, and pleasing Warframe players who want a challenge that doesn't require specific gear or waiting 40 minutes is not a priority at all.

 

They'd rather implement player ships and kubrows than make the core game more fun.  Apparently the game is perfect and doesn't need to be addressed, despite the myriad of issues holding it back like AoE spam, weapon imbalance, grind, lack of interesting enemy mechanics, lack of difficulty, lack of mission variety, choiceless modding, and so on.

[CryoClaw]

This is probably the biggest problem I have with kubrows. Don't get me wrong they're cute as hell and they look relatively entertaining, but after two (two!) devstreams essentially hyping how much work got put into kubrows and how in-depth they are, it makes me a little angry that we still have a market full of wildly-priced items, broken endgame scaling, useless weapons and unbalanced frame abilities, and overall lackluster recent additions.

 

But hey, space dogs. 

 

took the words right out of my mouth there 

i dont know man ... DE should really focus on balancing and fixing after U14 ...

i mean i even recently got some weird UI bug going on where when i left a 30 run from mimas the buttons in the menu froze and i couldnt enter the arsenal, clan tab, foundry etc, only log out and log back in 

[kimahn]

i just read 8 pages of pure ignorance and subjective thinking. i though i was an asshat. well. i feel wonderful now, thanks. since the thread is not locked, i ll hammer the nail a bit.

 

1 : kubrow is a feature. not the core of the patch. plus, kubrow will pay the dev cost of a new AI, with a new pathing and such. plus, a new feature that can attract people that would not play tps naturally, widening the playerbase is extremely needed. it will be welcomed by the noob and the vet alike.

 

2 : massive UI rework, that was more than needed, and immersive component. that was badly needed too. instead of a flat layer we ll get a 3d embedded VR ui.

 

3 : BG introduced new mechanics based on movement skill and avoidance, vor2.0 introduced new enemies that are not bullet sponges, and can be a new type of high level enemies, with a few tweaks.

 

4 : melee vs guns ? i play with furax and most of the time i match or outperform gun users. yes, i know that the numbers says that a melee weapon cannot go higher than 4k dps and 20k burst, and high forma explosive can go 12k single and skyrocket in multi. yes, they can do 30k burst. but you cannot regenerate life on them, you cannot parry ( yes, i know parry could use some buff and an innate bullet reflect AND counter combo.)

 

one day we will have a way to quick shoot with secondary in melee stance, and we'll see.that said, i don't see that many people using explosive outside of monster farming scenarios.

 

5 : power spam : well, we're morons. you want them to nerf power usage ? this is how you get a nerf mate. when we ll get 12s cd on ultis the thing will become a lot less fun, and the only people that can be blamed is ourselves on that. most of the power are not even that good, they re just convenient, a designed to be used on level 40, not 25.

 

6 : polishing vs new content ? what, you get THAT MANY BUGS ? because weirdly i don't. most of my problem comes from p2p connections.

 

7 : DE do not use multitasker super engineers beholders that can fix everything linked to warframe (they should. beholders are awesome.), each dude has its specialisation, and Kary will not start to code fix, he's doing art. so yeah, we'll get new weapons. stop being that ignorant, it starts to get really annoying, and we loose in credibility with that kind of argument.

 

8 : complaining about a new feature that is not out when we know nothing about the workflow at DE is pure asshatery. even for me. yes, we desperately need this focus system and a loot mechanic that can be desirable ad infinitum, but again, hidden components in the kubrow are needed too. so please. wait.

 

9 : the game is based on a 2005 concept, with defined characters, solo ergonomy, 0 rpg component and purely action based. they are trying to morph a gears of war into Destiny, give them time. i know this is slow, it infuriates me aswell, but it will come, eventually.

 

10 : A******s. here, i said it.

[achromos]

Well, no.  Even Rebecca's post has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.  The mindless, gear-based horde mode gameplay seems to be something DE is insistent on, and pleasing Warframe players who want a challenge that doesn't require specific gear or waiting 40 minutes is not a priority at all.

 

They'd rather implement player ships and kubrows than make the core game more fun.  Apparently the game is perfect and doesn't need to be addressed, despite the myriad of issues holding it back like AoE spam, weapon imbalance, grind, lack of interesting enemy mechanics, lack of difficulty, lack of mission variety, choiceless modding, and so on.

 

The game is NOT perfect, I've never seen a SINGLE perfect game.  I doubt any game 'anyone' else thought of as perfect would not get hammered by someone else as lame.

 

I rather them add player ships, and Kubrows, and quests, and improve the new player experience so my friends can actually GET INTO this game, currently they don't want to because there are no quests, no direction, you can set your own goals... yea, but still that isn't what they want.

 

I do want them to add in harder missions, yes... ESPECIALLY without having to wait 40+ minutes, but the issue at hand is that this game currently is built around the AoE spam, the weapon imbalance sucks, and the enemy mechanics are SLOWLY getting there.  The mission variety?  What type of missions would you want?

 

Choice-less modding?  You have every choice in the world on how YOU want to mod, just because you believe in your mind that every warframe/weapon/sentinel has only one configuration that is optimal does not mean that someone is content building his/her warframe/weapon/sentinel slightly or even completely different.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Sibarian

[n0xi0us]

While I am in agreement with seeing the game get its base cleaned up and bugs squashed, I am also seeing this addition as being just a part of their scheduled stuff they are working on as their main focus. Yes, the game has bugs, at the same time, while hotfixes aren't the be-all. end-all that people want to see, its still showing that they are trying to in effect add stuff while fixing other stuff. It ain't perfect, but for what it is, its actually pretty good in my opinion.

 

On a more serious note, I feel that if this basically works out to a situation where they fix a whole boatload of stuff, while not adding things.. then content dries up, people complain and DE is back where they started. We don't know their overall scope of what updates are their focuses, however, I am more interested in seeing what they are going to be throwing into the proverbial fire.. if its just a whole bunch more shinies with no real means to address what the players are asking for, *then* I can see the pitchforks and torches approach to appear.

 

Hell, at the end of the day, DE could have very well not opened it up the game to anyone, much less in an open development state we are enjoying (well, at least I know I am lol), or we can see what happens after the thing we already know is probably nearly finished for all we know.. so I am more or less saying, once this update drops, which (hopefully) addresses a huge issue when it comes to new players jumping into the game with nothing more than a control tutorial and dropping them off in the star system without a clue.

 

TL;DR: we know what U14 entails for the most part, the much vaunted bug fix focus isn't here yet, but if it doesn't come afterward, I feel that *then* people can rail on about it. If they stopped showing "fixes" in their patches, that would be cause for concern.. but they are working on stuff every week and haven't missed one since I started.

[Zubaz]

Why bother fixing the game when you have people keep throwing money and spamming "thenkz DE" threads while you can sell puppies?

[Innocent_Flower]

New ships. Yeah, ships should come in at some point; but not now. New player experience could easily have been fixed by a few UI updates. We didn't need a whole ship. 

[Methanoid]

its so we can all pretend we are WOW Hunters with a pet Dog.

 

^ wow dog

 

^ Kubrow

 

With nova/etc gaining twintail hairdos via helmets to look like wow female gnomes, now we just need a warframe that looks like a WoW Dwarf Hunter, and the illusion is complete.

[Inquisitioner]

Because grinding for yourself is getting tedious - so becoming as slave to a dog and working/grinding for them is the next step. It is essentially addressing the core gameplay elements in a way ;)

[0zryel]

Melee vs guns...hmmmm, I say the problem here is how your mod your warframe AND meele weapon, I have separate builts for guns and melee...Let me tell you, you can easily kill a enemy or player just by reflect damage back while channeling with an active lifes trike, Quickthinking + Rage + Stamina mods... By the time you reach your target it will be dead or half way and you will have enoght energy to do a final warframe power attack or a full channel strike that will finish the job leaving you with a full life enoght energy to keep on going...

What melee DO lack is a proper way to reach high upper enemies or running shooters, maybe a charge attack that allows you to throw your melee like a Glaive or make a mini teleport or jump to hit hard/knock down such enemies could solve this maybe?

DE mention they are actively working to improve Melee combat to be just as efficient as guns... But for now to be really good with melee you have mod very specifically for it and sacrifice a standard way most of the average players are use too mod... Alter all its sooooo easy to just point and shot stuff, there is no skill there involved, now it's really admirable and respectable to see players that come into missions with just their melee and kill just as or even more that anyone at the end of a mission as you can tell THAT player is a real veteran that got bored with the pew pew and decided to go in there and show us all how a real space ninja dose it... That's how I know some of the Mods I mention, I ask them... XD And the new pets I think it be soooooo much better!!

Edited July 2, 2014 by 0zryel

[Shehriazad]

New ships. Yeah, ships should come in at some point; but not now. New player experience could easily have been fixed by a few UI updates. We didn't need a whole ship. 

Ships aren't "mainly" for the new player experience....they cover many bases....I mean come on...use your brain a little.

I shall help:

- Removing the "float ontop of solar system" and put them in a ship to put everything more into perspective

 

- Make the game feel more seamless and the "lobby" more as a part of the game (right now it feels like a 3D lobby + jump in mission style game...hurts the immersion)

 

- Add a good way to remove the starchart....it created many limitations and gave wrong impressions. Limitations as in -> You can only add so many mission nodes until it overlaps with other planets and wrong impressions as in "planets are a timeline that you need to progress on (but you can still get a taxi to any place)

 

- Make room for future implementation of planetary lobbies (as seen many livestreams ago) to further strengthen immersion and make the game feel connected

- Alienate new players less by giving them a way to unlock functionality of the game bits and have a good way of explaining everything in a tutorial without it feeling like a nonsensical restriction (why just disable UI bits with the current system for new players... that would just feel weird.

Besides: Just a bunch of tutorial pop up bubbles that all appear at once is one of the worst and cheapest ways to introduce a player to the game)

-Ships will also hold a possible monetization value in the future (for DE) by selling decorations and the possibility of special event rewards for your ship is also possibility that I would like to throw out there.

-They are obviously the home of the Kubrows.

As you can see...right out of my head I can tell you 7 things that player ships will do for the game...and for us. And in the end we really need some new players up in this game...since in the past it had just overwhelmed and scared the newbies off too fast. Hek...this games' "tutorial" is being compared to Eve....not a good achievement as Eve is one of the most complex mmos you can find.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Shehriazad

[Innocent_Flower]

Why are any of those seven more important than balance and general gameplay updates? 

[Sidathe]

Why are any of those seven more important than balance and general gameplay updates? 

Those take time to work out, and why not work it out while doing something else at the same time? c8

[Shehriazad]

Why are any of those seven more important than balance and general gameplay updates? 

People who do balancing in most cases have nothing to do with the development of 3D models, animations and UI.  And U14/ships come with general gameplay updates anyway....

Ships are also used as the first way to test out the framework of the quest system that will be supplied with U14....it's all connected....

I mean it's cool that you just want to blindly hate on the part of an update... but if you refuse to see the bigger picture why DE adds the ships...then you can not be helped either way...

Ships are so much more than just some non-feature and they cover so many points and allow for many changes to happen that were overdue...they also allow these changes to happen in a way that makes sense.

If you refuse to understand that...then rage on...nothing can help you. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by Shehriazad

[fatpig84]

I consider the recent Invisibility/smoke screen fix a core game play improvement.

So DE did something.

 

Anyway I am far more interested in the new Focus™ System that has being in the works for a long time.

Even before frigging dark sectors.

[Shehriazad]

I consider the recent Invisibility/smoke screen fix a core game play improvement.

So DE did something.

 

Anyway I am far more interested in the new Focus™ System that has being in the works for a long time.

Even before frigging dark sectors.

Yea....that has been on my watchlist for a loooong time as well....it has been through many iterations now it seems....hence we don't have it yet....I hope to see it with U14.5 or 15 XD

U15 hype now! (lolno)

[Lqn8r]

I consider the recent Invisibility/smoke screen fix a core game play improvement.

So DE did something.

 

Anyway I am far more interested in the new Focus™ System that has being in the works for a long time.

Even before frigging dark sectors.

Lets just hope it doesn't turn into another darksector fiasco. I hope what they say actually happens unlike with dark sectors that were "supposed" to have factions helping out, unique loot, and new bosses.

[Zarfilg]

Reason they are releasing dogs, and toys and whatever other bling and glitz that might be forthcoming is because they rightly know that so far the formula is working.

 

As with most pve multiplier games bling sells. I'm sure their internal plat/sales numbers support this. 

 

The other reason is that quite frankly at this point any core changes are too monumental for them to tackle.  

 

If they for a moment stop the cycle of weekly fluff releases to work on core stuff they risk losing the playerbase. Why? because that's all there is in this game to keep them there.

 

They seem like a pretty bright crew so I doubt they are ignorant of the fact that on many lavels the gameplay is insanely shallow if not entirely broken. But as I stated earlier - they are also bright enough to recognize the demographic they are dealing with, coming to the conclusion that they can retain a successful business model (yes boys and girls in the end this is a business) by simply offering or promising a new shiny toy per week.

 

IMO their big mistake is that they are not being pragmatic enough about how fast this sort of thing can turn on them. All things have an end and people move on and lose interest, this is normal and to be expected. But when your house is made of cards (pun intended) the collapse is fast and furious.  

 

In the end I think it's far too late for anything to really dramatically change. It is what it is, take it or leave it. So far I am taking it because there isn't anything else compelling out there right now . I fear that when something like Killing FLoor 2 comes out my time with Tenno will be largely over.

 

This also explains why DE might be interested in selling to PW

[bear38122]

IMO constantly releasing new material is supposed to distract us from what is broken and not getting fixed

it's all gonna pile up eventually and lots of people will leave and WF may crash and burn b