[Focus] Will Existing Rank30+ Xp Matter?

[quietcanary]

Most vets didn't blaze through content there just happened to be a hard cap to it with nothing that normally would keep a hardcore player base busy in a online game. Or at least if it does have it most of us just dismiss it as bad game design, but really grinding, loot collecting, and maxing are as traditional as end game content gets. Though they make it a lot less meaningful and less bearable than most.

 

Still don't speak for all vets when you decide what would not be lost on us or not. Id be rather put out personally since in general I don't want to do the same work (yes its a game but grinding is work to get to the good parts of the game and not the other way around) twice and since I have been forced up against that threshold for a very long time now I would feel very put out not to be compensated by the system built to compensate for the problem I have had for ages. Let the people who haven't made it yet test it and let the people who have test its higher workings and that's simply fair.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

Well, as much as I would like all of that extra XP I've collected for various weapons and frames to count towards something, I do think that if given the choice, the better option is for everyone to start off on equal footing. 

 

Well, except that it would actually potentially penalize older players if, for instance, Forma development of weapons and Warframes became relevant and then older players were not credited for that effort.

 

Then everyone, wherever they may be in their Forma development, might start at the same point in time, but people that have already thrown Forma - or multiple Formae - into their gear and Warframes then have re-Forma weapons to be able to gain credit for working on them, and working on them essentially more than anyone else.

 

For instance, my Flux Rifle has 5 Formae on it.  From a given starting point with Random Joe and his Fresh Flux Rifle, he has the more versatile development potential - the future of his Flux Rifle is wide open.  If I throw down another 5 Formae, I have 3 potential slots left that I can Polarize - I'll be re-polarizing slots at some point, and that's if we assume I'm going to polarize my last three open slots.  (I'm not, because they're the remaining versatile slots on the gun.)

 

 

It's like going back to school to learn Algrebra again because the school developed new Standards of Learning guidelines.  Except that your dad also has to go, even though he's a tenured Physics professor* who does more and more intense equations in a single semester than most people simply see in their entire lives.  Because them's the new laws.

 

(* Pretend your dad is a tenured Physics professor.)

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

-snip-

Focus is meant to add abilities unique to itself, meaning they are separate from existing mods. I doubt that formaing will be a significant disadvantage. 

[DJ_Redwire]

Well, except that it would actually potentially penalize older players if, for instance, Forma development of weapons and Warframes became relevant and then older players were not credited for that effort.

 

Then everyone, wherever they may be in their Forma development, might start at the same point in time, but people that have already thrown Forma - or multiple Formae - into their gear and Warframes then have re-Forma weapons to be able to gain credit for working on them, and working on them essentially more than anyone else.

 

For instance, my Flux Rifle has 5 Formae on it.  From a given starting point with Random Joe and his Fresh Flux Rifle, he has the more versatile development potential - the future of his Flux Rifle is wide open.  If I throw down another 5 Formae, I have 3 potential slots left that I can Polarize - I'll be re-polarizing slots at some point, and that's if we assume I'm going to polarize my last three open slots.  (I'm not, because they're the remaining versatile slots on the gun.)

 

 

It's like going back to school to learn Algrebra again because the school developed new Standards of Learning guidelines.  Except that your dad also has to go, even though he's a tenured Physics professor* who does more and more intense equations in a single semester than most people simply see in their entire lives.  Because them's the new laws.

 

(* Pretend your dad is a tenured Physics professor.)

 

 

Focus is meant to add abilities unique to itself, meaning they are separate from existing mods. I doubt that formaing will be a significant disadvantage. 

 

This^

 

Forma'ing a weapon is not going to put you at a disadvantage. No one is at a disadvantage as it stands already. The Focus system is not designed to get you to forma you weapon more - it collects all XP past rank 30 - not just the XP you gain once you forma something. That means the guy who just finished leveling up his Flux to 30 and just forma'd it, and the other guy with a 5 forma'd Flux who is just running around using it at max rank, are both earning XP in the same way and same amount. 

[Katinka]

I'm pretty sure that using Forma will not benefit Focus and having a gun with 5 Forma spent on it would actually mean less points earned for Focus.  This is purely conjecture of course since details of the system have not been released but it is accepted that Focus will be earned by adding a lens to a rank 30 item and then earning affinity with said item.  If you use Forma the item is no longer rank 30 and the affinity is going towards bringing it back to 30, not towards Focus.

 

One key thing that makes me think we will not get retroactive Focus is the lenses.  The rank 30 Boltor Prime I've been using while hunting the new Prime parts in T4 doesn't have a lens on it to direct the affinity to a specific Focus so the affinity will be lost.

[__Kanade__]

XP already earned from lvl 30 weapons probably won't carry over.

 

Look at Blacklight: Retribution. Whenever you reach the level cap, you still accumulate points and shows you just how many points you have over the lvl cap. But whenever a new update comes that just so happens to increase the lvl cap, the accumulated points are not carried over and are reset back the previous lvl cap.

 

So if you had 1,293,043/800,000 pts before the lvl cap was raised, then the update would reset your xp back to 800,000/800,000 pts. The only way you could reach the next lvl cap quickly was if you saved up all your xp tokens that ranged from 1,000 xp to 5,000 xp.

 

It's to keep veteran players from already having enough points to possibly reach the next 5 levels without even having to grind it out like newer players would, but veteran BLR players like myself would still have a slight advantage over the newer players with the hundreds of xp tokens we've saved up for just that occasion since new lvl caps also means new weapons that are unlocked after reaching one of the new levels.

Edited July 6, 2014 by __Kanade__

[quietcanary]

This isn't BLR and we don't have advantage over each other in this game. Just swag. Also whats your opinion on what they are doing. To me that's a good example of why we shouldn't do it that way.

[HAYABU5A]

it better god damn be retroactive 

 

how the hell does it make sense if you have already formad something 6 times and accumulated heaps of XP using only to be punished with the new system and not rewarded for it 

 

it would actually give new players a huge advantage (time efficiency) over veterans, if it is not retroactive

 

you can expect massive community rage if its not retroactive or xp reset 

[SmokeBraid]

What about having the excess XP put into a pool that can't be fully accessed right away? You can gain an extra 20% or so that is taken directly out of this pool. It would keep all of the collected XP, but at the same time keep the vets from getting all the advantages the day of the update.

[__Kanade__]

This isn't BLR and we don't have advantage over each other in this game. Just swag. Also whats your opinion on what they are doing. To me that's a good example of why we shouldn't do it that way.

BLR is a great example of all the time you put into the game long after you've reached the level cap and have millions of exp only to see it all vanish after the next update releases new level caps.

 

Maybe the Focus system is going to be similar to how BLR's leveling system works, resets everyones accumulated exp on Rank 30 weapons back to the original amount needed to reach Rank 30 and having to start over and re-accumulate those points, and if they decide to forma that weapon they're working on towards a focus ability, then the exp would go towards getting affinity to reach rank 30 instead, then everyother bit of exp afterwards will go towards a focus ability, if you forma a weapon again, then process repeats itself, all exp goes towards getting the weapon to rank 30 again instead of towards a focus ability.

 

That's my opinion on it though I doubt that's how it's going to work.

 

Maybe the focus system will be entirely based on your mastery level alone and using the exp from your mastery instead. Who knows though it would give mastery more purpose besides just reaching MR8 and be able to use any and all weapons. Which would mean players who are capped at MR 16 would have a massive advantage over others who aren't at MR4 or MR5, MR 6, etc. More exp they can burn on focus abilities and drain their mastery all the way down to MR8.

[Instinction]

This subject has already been discussed.

 

As I recall, no one will have a headstart. Everyone will have to start from a base of 0 focus xp and work their way up.

Even for those people who have 100's of millions of xp of their frames or weapons (like myself).

It's unfortunate it's not retroactive, but at the same time it makes sense.

 

Plus, what fun would it be to have a new awesome system come out, and just blam, everything already done.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Instinction

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

Calling the idea of retroactively honoring earned experience a "headstart" is a pretty strong misnomer. 

 

 

I reiterate; not retroactively acknowledging the past experience is putting veterans at a disadvantage as they have less room within which to work, as they've already worked on their choice weapons.  They'd be put in a position to re-work on stuff they've already developed, which would be costly to do all over again.

Edited July 6, 2014 by (PS4)Hooligantuan

[SevenLetterKWord]

Think about it this way - how fair is it for the vet to instantly get 9001 focus points because they has all things rank 30 since day 1, while the other guy who just barely got their stuff to 30 gets none at all and has to earn them later? 

That's nonsense.

It's not like the veterans are just letting the equipment sit in their inventory.

The equipment is actively being used and earning affinity beyond rank 30.

There's an investment here that you've neglected to consider.

 

I'm in favor of veterans being rewarded for at least a portion of their prior investment, under a structure that distributes such rewards gradually over time.

So, on launch, maybe 20% of previously earned affinity will be honored.

The next week, 10%.

The next week, another 10%.

And so on, until 50%-100% of previously earned affinity has been accounted for.

[SirSlayer]

Calling the idea of retroactively honoring earned experience a "headstart" is a pretty strong misnomer. 

 

 

I reiterate; not retroactively acknowledging the past experience is putting veterans at a disadvantage as they have less room within which to work, as they've already worked on their choice weapons.  They'd be put in a position to re-work on stuff they've already developed, which would be costly to do all over again

What? no the system works differently.

 

Take your choice of lvl 30 equipment, get XP -> get focus stuff. 

[DSpite]

Has anybody actually asked themselves the following question first?

 

* Did DE have a variable where they stored all EXCESS affinity that you got once you got a weapon to 30, or do they just ignore it?

 

Because seriously, if I made a game with levels to say 50th, why would I bother tracking excess XP, because that's what it is, "excess" XP.

[GaleRoar]

it better god damn be retroactive

how the hell does it make sense if you have already formad something 6 times and accumulated heaps of XP using only to be punished with the new system and not rewarded for it

it would actually give new players a huge advantage (time efficiency) over veterans, if it is not retroactive

you can expect massive community rage if its not retroactive or xp reset

Except you are rewarded in that you would have six polarities for mods. Either way, you probably shouldn't forma something with a lens, as the lens turns the affinity into Focus points. Therefore, if it was allowed, you would be either stuck with an unranked or you would lose that lens.

Also, someone stated earlier, I was also there when DESteve was asked after Prime Time, and I can vouch for that. But keep in mind it is subject to change.

I think since we have to acquire and attach the lens, it likely won't be retroactive. But that's just me.

Edited July 7, 2014 by GaleRoar

[SevenLetterKWord]

Has anybody actually asked themselves the following question first?

 

* Did DE have a variable where they stored all EXCESS affinity that you got once you got a weapon to 30, or do they just ignore it?

 

Because seriously, if I made a game with levels to say 50th, why would I bother tracking excess XP, because that's what it is, "excess" XP.

Yes, people have asked themselves that question.

And then they answered it almost immediately by looking at the player statistics page.

 

Wow, that sure was some expert sleuthin'!

[DSpite]

Yes, people have asked themselves that question.

And then they answered it almost immediately by looking at the player statistics page.

 

Wow, that sure was some expert sleuthin'!

 

... and aren't you lucky that they are, unlike all the other games where they don't. Which is my FRIGGING POINT.

 

If DE wipes the numbers, good riddance. Since DE states in their disclaimer that they can wipe entire accounts "without notice or reason", I kind of wonder what possible point this entire thread is.

 

You really think you will change their minds by discussing it? No.

 

I hope they start from scratch.

[Kartumterek]

I'm actually of two minds on this but was wondering what D.E.'s course of action will be concerning the Focus Path System and Frame/Weapon Xp that has already been earned at the Lv30 ranking.

Will they (A:) ignore this Xp. Asking players that have already gained (read: grind for). Perhaps even script resetting the Xp stat of these items at the Rank 30 mark? Thus allowing each player a fresh experience and not becoming overwhelmed or mistake prone when assigning points?

Or (B:) retroactively apply this earned accumulation of experience, allowing veteran players a deeper initial step into the new system. Maybe all the better to quickly catch bugs and exploits?

I'm actually fine with either of these possibilities, but the question itself is something I find of great importance seeing as how Focus is going to be a very important part of the game. And having watched all the current Dev Streams (through 31 at this point), we've heard nothing (or at least I have missed somehow) if they have any plans on hos they will be handling this aspect of the addition.

It more specifically matters (going forward and approaching the eventual roll-out) to players that are planning their arsenal. Foreknowledge of either direction would be beneficial to many a player.

Perhaps D.E. has yet to pick a direction, or perhaps they're anticipating feedback on the matter? So tell me, Tenno. What say you?

 

 

 

EDIT: After reading some of the responces, I think I will proceedunder the assumption that all players will start the focus system at the same point, and only XP gained post-update will count. Thanks everybody, and I hope this thread helps some people ^^

When Focus launches there's going to be 2 types of Warframe players... those of us who have maxed Mastery are going to have auras and wings and lasers, tazers, blazers and all kinds of azers... and then those that don't that aren't going to have anything and will only be able to gaze at the rest of us longingly as we fly thru the heavens... Super Saiyan 3s versus Mr. Satan's as far as the eye can see.

Apart from very new players EVERYONE has had more than enough time to max out their Mastery, so don't whine, cry, despair, moan, complain about unfairness or how you are being punished. Its your own fault that you haven't raised it

[(PSN)lll-URBAN-III]

Let's be honest though, if you were playing the game and grinding before the focus system was mentioned then your really just moaning over nothing. I'm pretty sure all these players that dont get off the game will have everything unlocked quick anyway

[holyicon]

When Focus launches there's going to be 2 types of Warframe players... those of us who have maxed Mastery are going to have auras and wings and lasers, tazers, blazers and all kinds of azers... and then those that don't that aren't going to have anything and will only be able to gaze at the rest of us longingly as we fly thru the heavens... Super Saiyan 3s versus Mr. Satan's as far as the eye can see.

Apart from very new players EVERYONE has had more than enough time to max out their Mastery, so don't whine, cry, despair, moan, complain about unfairness or how you are being punished. Its your own fault that you haven't raised it

 

"whine, cry, despair, moan, complain about unfairness" ?

Er.. I just wanted to know what DE's plans were at this stage and was curious if others were curious as well. Like I stated, I'm fine with any outcome (even if their stated outcome changes as they are free to do).

But having said that I am planning my arsenal around the assumption that we will all start focus fresh with no retroactive XP applied. It would only encourage me to keep certain Lv30 weapons equipped and gaining XP in the intervening time if there was going to be some form of compensation in that matter. But it is not for me, essential or compelling.

And for the record, I've never held my account or gear in comparison to another player's in terms of fairness. That's foolish in a Co-Op game. If another player has functionally better gear than mine on a mission, so much the better. And if worse, then I have an opportunity play as a role model or inspiration.

So please. Don't go visiting my intentions.

[SevenLetterKWord]

... and aren't you lucky that they are, unlike all the other games where they don't. Which is my FRIGGING POINT.

 

If DE wipes the numbers, good riddance. Since DE states in their disclaimer that they can wipe entire accounts "without notice or reason", I kind of wonder what possible point this entire thread is.

 

You really think you will change their minds by discussing it? No.

 

I hope they start from scratch.

Haha. What nonsense.

Your so called "FRIGGING POINT" is invalid because the truth is that DE actually does record excess statistics.

I don't know why you bother mentioning "other games".

Examine the situation at a very basic level:

This is Warframe we're talking about. Warframe records excess statistics.

It's pointless to worry about how some other games don't.

 

Secondly, DE is never going to arbitrarily "wipe entire accounts".

It's like one of those restaurants that puts up a sign saying they can "refuse service" to anyone.

Have you actually ever seen them refuse service without good reason?

I haven't. It's just a legal right that they reserve. De facto, they're never going to do it.

It's ridiculous that you even brought this up as a point of concern.

 

Finally, this discussion provides feedback, which can be influential on DE decisions.

If you don't think it matters, then you don't have to participate. Bye.