Is Warframe Forming A Society Of Prejudice? - T4 & Keys Pickings

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

Of course i don't mean against people... I did the title so that it would be "edgy" enough to fit in with the forums. 

 

When T4's 1st came out i had alot of fun with them, going with guys i knew or randoms... but recently i haven't been able to get in a squad unless i was the host.  about 30% of all T4's i try to join i am rejected for not going Nova, nekros, Rhino, Loki, mirage, Booben*, or Valkyr**.  I assume that this isn't just my bad luck and it happens to others too... do you soak up your pride and choose one of the 'good' frames.

 

          There seems to be a myth in the warframe community that 'late game' content is only good with the top tier weapons where missions are only applicable to be done if it is a cakewalk, and if there is challenge than it is the fault of your gear not being good enough... 

 

          hell even weapons are at the mercy of this judgement, top tier weapons like the Paris prime, or dread arent allowed because they aren't a Boltor P or soma (seriously people only value meat grinders in this game) 

 

the "correct" solution to this issue is to @(*()$ buff the non-endgame frames to be the same tier as the 7 i mentioned above. saying that some frames need to be weaker than others is a pretty stupid idea because this isnt pokemon where having a few crap ones is ok (pokemon has 600 seriously even if 1/2 are bad we still have alot to choose from), we only have so many frames, if only 7/20 are usable than why do we have the other 13(not counting primes)

 

Volt was once considered overpowered, and DE were happy to nerf him, so why can't they re balance all the frames to make sense with the current state of the game.

*- Only for defense

**- Duration hysteria build

 

Tell me what you think everyone... Have you been at the mercy of T4 judgement before

EDIT: A summary of page 1&2 of comments

1. this is an issue in alot of games and I shouldn't expect change

2. if the host says so just find someone else or host your own game, it is his key

2.5(reply to 2) keys aren't hard to get

3. If I want to take out my big guns i don't need to make everybody else do the same thing.  \

4. The Upscale in difficulty isn't something people are ready for so when they have trouble they blame their gear.

5. Yaer is a wonderful Human being.

 

NOTE TO MODS: This is not feedback as it isn't about the game itself, but more of how the community uses the games mehanics... if your gonna move it atleast let the thread pick up a bit of speed 1st... please?Thanks Yaer!

Edited July 27, 2014 by RoboticApplesWithLasers

[Yaerion]

NOTE TO MODS: This is not feedback as it isn't about the game itself, but more of how the community uses the games mehanics... if your gonna move it atleast let the thread pick up a bit of speed 1st... please?

Ahah!

My cast was ready. But my sensors tell me you're in the good room for now.

I'll complement your transmission title, to better inform the incoming reinforcements of the situation.

Continue what you are doing, Tenno!

 

And yes i've been told to take some gear into these missions. But it didn't bothered me cause i like playing everything from time to time.

The people want to make their key as successful as possible. That's why they are demanding (just IMO).

[vaugahn]

This happens in anything where artificial separation of groups is possible. Hell, if you go to Skyrim forums there are players who look down on people because they don't have X weapon or what have you. 

 

On the more gameplay side of things, one of the problems is that our late game is basically "one shot everything until they one shot you" and due to natural game progression only certain weapons will achieve that desired effect. The same with many frames, if you aren't playing one that brings something to the team then nobody wants to team up with you.

 

I don't think buffing underperforming frames up is the answer, instead it would be best to approach it from the other side and deal with an endgame that forces us into a narrow range of options due to the way our scaling works. 

[RoboDoge]

Depends on mental set. I mostly use Boltor Prime becaue it gives me the edge and i dont have to worry about being useless in missions, and there is biggest plus to the Boltor Prime, flying mobs. But that doesnt mean i am not switching to my most loved weapon, Braton Prime. As for frames, i mostly use Loki and i switch from time to time to other frames. Not because mission needs them, i instead like to have a bit of change in game.

 

 

Judgement is awful when it comes to the mission requirements. Looking at T4 ( especially Interception ) people demand maxed weapons and frames when that isnt needed. Was doing T4 Interception with clanies ( 3 of us ) and was using Mirage lvl 12, Boltor Prime, Despair and Dakra Prime. We did 6 waves without any problems, and we didnt even camp at towers. More than having maxed gear in T4, you need mobility. If you arent mobile enough you will start dying over and over again.

Edited July 26, 2014 by RoboDoge

[Aktriaz]

I play solo almost exclusively. I get sick of seeing 3 Rhino Primes all with Boltor Primes and Brakks in a game with me...

 

With the rising popularity of warframe we're only going to have more of the elitist fun-is-winning people.

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

You are at the mercy of the host of the mission. While i do agree the stigma against some frames and weapons needs to disappear, i do not think it will... If a host requests you use a soma then its probaly because he wants his team to do as good as possible. So he makes his fellow players pick weapons he thinks are top-tier. This happens in many coop games... I remember in ME3P that i would be kicked for not using a 'good weapon' in the eyes of my fellow players... This is a naturally occurring event in cooperative games... It does need to disappear but it won't... So like me and many others you will have to adapt to suit your host's needs or face being kicked... It's bad but its not changing... :,(

Edited July 26, 2014 by (PS4)infuriatedplayer

[RoboDoge]

You are at the mercy of the host of the mission. While i do agree the stigma against some frames and weapons needs to disappear, i do not think it will... If a requests you use a soma then its probaly because he wants his team to do as good as possible. So he makes his fellow players pick weapons he thinks are top-tier. This happens in many coop games... I remember in ME3P that i would be kicked for not using a 'good weapon' in the eyes of my fellow players... This is naturally occurring event in cooperative games... It does need to disappear but it won't... So like me and many others you will have to adapt to suit your host's needs or face being kicked... It's bad but its not changing... :,(

If host needs people to use specific weapons then he in general sucks. Yes, there are some frames that make life easier, but in general adaptility is what makes teams great. You can use "best" equipment and still fail void runs, depending on what type of players you have with you.

[Arabaxus]

The host should get to decide what he or she wants to do with the key. As with every MMO there are the "best" weapons, and if the host wishes for everyone to be on their A-Game, that's their key and their choice, and we as clients have no right to complain. 

 

As stated by OP, with your friends doing a T4 Interception, since the host is ok with you guys not bringing <x> warframe or <y> weapon then it is fine. There isn't prejudice, there is only people looking for the most successful party, which is not only determined by spreadsheets and numbers, but also by tried and true experience.

 

If you don't meet the requirements, you simply don't get to participate. It's like applying for a job you don't have the prerequisites for and expecting to actually get a call back.

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

If host needs people to use specific weapons then he in general sucks. Yes, there are some frames that make life easier, but in general adaptility is what makes teams great. You can use "best" equipment and still fail void runs, depending on what type of players you have with you.

many players will lay 'guidelines' to increase there score or survival time... Failure is a variable i see no one consider in warframe void runs... Also versatility is an after thought for many hosts... Edited July 26, 2014 by (PS4)infuriatedplayer

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

You are at the mercy of the host of the mission. While i do agree the stigma against some frames and weapons needs to disappear, i do not think it will... If a host requests you use a soma then its probaly because he wants his team to do as good as possible. So he makes his fellow players pick weapons he thinks are top-tier. This happens in many coop games... I remember in ME3P that i would be kicked for not using a 'good weapon' in the eyes of my fellow players... This is a naturally occurring event in cooperative games... It does need to disappear but it won't... So like me and many others you will have to adapt to suit your host's needs or face being kicked... It's bad but its not changing... :,(

when i face hosts liek that i would personally rather be kicked than play with them.. before T4's were a thing i remember we were doing a 40 minute T3 survival, the host was complaining that i wasnt doign enough damage with volt+paris prime. we failed the mission he ofcourse blamed the 3 of us...we then did the same mission with a different host and went for close to an hour. people need to realise 2 things, players will use the frames they are good with... and Volt's speed effects draw speed on the bows making them much more usable.

[SeaUrchins]

I never join hosts who look for nova, cos that mean it's a scrub party who want nova to carry them. If they at least paid me for doing all the work, otherwise meh.

[Esleyer]

Some players are just "noobs". It's a state of mind, unrelated to the MR or gameplay hours. Having ridiculous requests like "Mastery Rank +14 ONLY".

 

But

 

...on the other hand T4 is the current 'endgame'.

 

It's like, it's the moment of truth! This is the place not to play about but show the real muscle - to bring out only the best equipment possible!

People think of it as a place where all those 4 forma'd Boltor Primes finally going to pay off, therefore they want people in their party to be no less...

 

T4s aren't as easy to come by as other, and often even sold for platinum, so it's natural the host wishes for key his to be as successful as possible.

There's nothing much we can do about it, the only "solution" is to host yourself and play by your own rules...

[RoboDoge]

There is one thing that is worse than host that demands specific frames, MR and weapons. Host that uses low rank frames and weapons, and demands others to bring fully maxed items. And when he starts dying, he is like "Lol! I am leveling my stuff, sorry!".

[Fubukin]

I go by 'if I don't like a ridiculous requirement, even if I meet it, like MR16 only or something like that, I don't join that host'.

I also go by 'it's the host's key, host can decide what they want'.

If I wanted to set my own rules, I'd host myself.

I am not too desperate to get a run in to sacrifice my dignity or fun over it, or to enable someone.

Sometimes, I outright ask them if they had bad experience with people, which sometimes leads to a bit of nice chat.

All in all, in a limited system like a brief text chat, you can't convey mood and intention all too well, so while reading, it's always good to take it with a grain of salt, and again, if someone brushes you the wrong way, ignore them, there'll be the next T4 ext or surv or def going on soon.

[khazlol]

well i always ask for nekros when i do T3/T4 survival :P

 

i like to play Nyx for the CC and that is usually enough to reach 40m

 

 

Edit: is it even possible to do T4 surv without desecrate? <.<

Edited July 26, 2014 by khazlol

[Lynxh]

I kind of get your angle, but like mentioned there is more to it.

 

And to be fair, I think that you can at most mitigate this by addressing some "underpowered" frames. But by very nature, some abilities(weapons) are simply gonna be more used(better suited) due to utility/purpose/stats. And people know this, which means they WILL keep that in mind especially considering access to T4 isn't for free. And folks rather do less runs then needed to acquire things. 

 

Sadly, this  is something you will always run into in any co-op/mmo related game. Best you can do is find like minded people, or host games yourself so you can demand them not using rhino/boltor combo's etc XD.

[Zeitzbach]

Try hards will always try too hard. If the survival doesn't go for an hour long, it isn't considered to be survival for them because they aren't eating insta-kill bullets and taking a mag to kill a single gunner.

 

Aiming for a possible goal like 40 minutes max (double C rotation) or wave 15/20, I still jump in with Nekros for Solo survival or bring in Frost Prime for solo defense. My friends aren't going to torture themselves so I can bring anything I want as well. Keys can easily be farmed anyway from running Uranus Stephano anyway.

 

Screw hosts with requirements. If I can do it solo, I'm doing it solo.

[RoboDoge]

well i always ask for nekros when i do T3/T4 survival :P

 

i like to play Nyx for the CC and that is usually enough to reach 40m

 

 

Edit: is it even possible to do T4 surv without desecrate? <.<

It is if you are lucky enough. Same like any other survival, you can go 40-45 mins without Nekros if you have a bit of luck.

 

 

As for Nekros, when i host Survival i am the Nekros. Dont trust people except clanies to do this job right. If some frame is strictly needed for some specific run, i will probably use it.

Edited July 26, 2014 by RoboDoge

[Nervara]

I don't know where this sense of discrimination came from. It's always those top tier frames you stated above. Hell I still use Volt 90% of the time. I still come out as the top player at the end of the match. I've never really cared what frame or weapons someone is using. It's a matter of personal skill not the so called "top tier" frames. Yes those frames are good but I don't enjoy any of them. I think DE should balance the lower tier frames.

 

I get extremely tired of seeing the same frames all the time. How many Rhino Primes can you meet in a single session? Likely 70% of the players I meet! Nova is very over used as well. Not to say I don't like them because they're universally loved but I like a challenge and the look of my favorite frames. To solve this problem DE needs to look at all of the bottom tier frames and give them a rework. Take Volt for example, low armor rating and average running speed. Make the lighting frame fast or up the armor! The low tier frames just need a slight rework to compete with the ridiculous top tier frames.

[Sixty5]

Blame people who think they are better at the game than they really are.

 

 

If you look like you know what you are doing you can run whatever you want for all I care. Just say that there are no bad frames, only bad players, and if they kick you from the lobby, then they aren't the sort of players you want to be running with anyway.

 

The other option is to run a Troll build. I had one guy who was extremely insistent that I run frost, since he obviously couldn't avoid being shot in the face and needed snow globe. I took my Offensive frost into the game and ended up taking all the kills for the first 15 waves, at which point said guy had gone down three times. At that point he quit.

[darthdart]

This just in. People want to ensure victory in higher leveled content, and DE doesn't know what balance means at all whatsoever. More news at 11.

 

Welcome to every possible team oriented multiplayer game ever created forever and always.

 

This will always happen. There will always be this type of mentality in gaming. If you aren't bringing the most OP stuff, you aren't wanted.

 

I don't condone this thought process, but it is inevitable. There will always be a better than the rest setup for end game stuff in these kinda games. It's been this way for a very long time in gaming and as more people join, it will get worse.

Edited July 26, 2014 by darthdart

[Brynslustafir]

The only time I have rejected someone from a T4 was was when a mastery rank 1 with all his original noob gear tried to join.

[Ionus]

The only time I have rejected someone from a T4 was was when a mastery rank 1 with all his original noob gear tried to join.

Agreed^ I try not to discriminate on the rare occasions I host, but if you're under MR4 with a braton I'm probably not going to trust your capabilities. Meanwhile if you're a little higher level (5-6 at least) rrunning even a Mk 1 I'll just shrug and go with it.

[KiteoHatto]

Well, when it comes to pugs, people want the mission to go as smoothly as possible, thats why they ask for the 'better' frames.

[luanle21]

its cause people like to play borderlands in warframe

why i say borderlands?

-the first game when u beat it on play through 1, at least anyways, u are basically playing a god type thing (nudge nudge trinity blessing nudged) and you can pretty much kill everything with very very very little problem (purple/orange/cyan gear)

people are afraid of challenge apparently even while this game u can beat it with a multi shot + serration MK1 braton.... with a blindfold (the MK1-braton part is true)

and the other part is the meta game so ya