Vargras Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Ever since U14 dropped, I've been seeing a lot of posts hating on kubrows. A lot. And honestly, a lot of the critiques are kinda baseless. Not only that, but kubrows as a whole? They're fine. They could use some tweaks, sure, but they're a lot better than some people try to make them out to be. As for the why? Well... 1. 100,000 credits just to keep my kubrow healthy is ridiculous! I can't believe I have to pay for these stupid stabilizers! Here's the thing about the stabilizers: A pack of stabilizers is 100,000 credits. You get six stabilizers per pack. Each pack can restore 40% of your kubrow's health (or more, in some cases). Your kubrow's hp degrades at a rate of 20% per day. In order to maintain your kubrow's health at the same level, you'd have to use a stabilizer every other day, meaning a single pack is going to last you twelve days. It's very, very easy to make 100,000 credits over the course of twelve days, and if you can't, you simply aren't trying hard enough. 2. Kubrows die way too easily. Why bother when I can just bring my sentinel? First thing's first, stop taking them to high-level missions when they're still low-leveled. They're going to die, and that's going to be your fault. Second, invest in some Link mods, and also in Pack Leader. Congrats, as long as you don't do something silly like taking a level 3 kubrow to Sechura, your kubrow is pretty much going to never die again. Seriously, they can end up with higher defensive values than you. Also they're pretty immune to all traps now, so there's that too. 3. The loyalty system is way too punishing and needs to be removed. The loyalty system is only punishing if you let your kubrow die, and should be incentive to not let it happen again. As long as you're careful about how you level your kubrow, in addition to how you mod it, it's not going to die, which means that the potential penalty of the loyalty system is moot. The system does not matter at all if your kubrow never gets downed. 4. Kubrows bleed out too quickly. I don't even get the chance to revive them. I'll admit that the bleed-out timer on them is pretty harsh right now. Unless you have a Loyal Companion mod on them (even a rank 1), the timer is too short for you to even begin to react, let alone find it. That mod is basically a must-have while leveling up your doggy, though you can probably replace it with some high-level Link mods and things will be fine... because, you know, your kubrow isn't going to get downed ever. 5. All the timers suck. Incubation, maturing, stasis. Why does it even exist? Because F2P. No really, having things be time-gated (with the option to bypass or accelerate it with money) is pretty standard for F2P games. 6. So kubrows actually die if their health reaches -100%? That's way too punishing and needs to be removed. If your kubrow reaches -100% health, that is completely and totally your fault, as you have several options available to you to ever prevent that from happening. You either play the game, spend credits on stabilizers, and use those stabilizers to keep your kubrow healthy, or you put them in stasis and freeze their health and loyalty levels at their current level. If your kubrow actually hits -100% health, you absolutely deserve to have your kubrow permanently die on you. That's your fault for not taking care of it. I hit the major points, but probably missed some other things. All things considered though, kubrows are fine. They're not perfect and could definitely use some tweaks, but they aren't nearly as terrible as everyone is making them out to be. And besides, if you don't like them, just use your sentinels. No one is forcing you to use a kubrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Some of your points are right, but the kubrows can surely be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Some of your points are right, but the kubrows can surely be improved. Which I mentioned. I know there's room for improvement, but they also aren't as bad as people are trying to make them out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-10no-GCoda Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 kubrows actually die if their health reaches -100% Is this true??? I am happy if it is!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Is this true??? I am happy if it is!!! Basically speculation right now, though I think one of the devs confirmed it. No its a cry for attention. Because explaining why kubrows are fine is totally a cry for attention. Yes. Brilliant. Makes perfect sense. Edited July 27, 2014 by Vargras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwc153 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) 6. So kubrows actually die if their health reaches -100%? That's way too punishing and needs to be removed. If your kubrow reaches -100% health, that is completely and totally your fault, So... if someone has an unforseeable issue that does not enable them to play the game, they should lose their Kubrow and the hours of resources and time investment it took to get it? I mean, no one ever is unable to login to their PC/console to play warframe for over a week sometimes due to computer failure or natural disaster.. Edited July 27, 2014 by bwc153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feallike Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Here's my only problem with Kubrows. The stasis timer. :/ Just have them lose 20% Hp after the daily reset, (it doesn't go any higher) but you will always lose 20% DNA integrity when you take them out of stasis after a daily reset. Then just take the timer off, and good to go. ^.^ TBH i love Kubrows, I take my Sunika to Pluto to solo Ambulas for fun, and since i have a million credits i don't ever have to worry about the credit sink, because i actually... (guess what) PLAY. X.x Edited July 27, 2014 by Feallike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalarcher Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Though many of your points are valid, I completely disagree with you on point #1. I don't care if it's 100,000 for 6 stabilizers or 100 for 600 stabilizers, the game is punishing you simply for having a Kubrow. And I don't care how much it's punishing you, it's the concept that it's punishing you at all for getting your dog that's just...unreasonable. I can get 100,000 credits in 12 days easy, sure, but I would much prefer to spend them on something other than just keeping my dog alive because apparently they die over time for some indiscriminate reason. Not to mention the whole "find a Kubrow egg for a 1/4 chance to get the functionality that you actually want!" That's just...well, I'll just stick to sentinels if that's the case, because when I make them, they actually do the thing that I wanted them to from the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) So... if someone has an unforseeable issue that does not enable them to play the game, they should lose their Kubrow and the hours of resources and time investment it took to get it? I mean, no one ever is unable to login to their PC/console to play warframe for over a week sometimes due to computer failure or natural disaster.. Are you insane?.. I'm pretty sure if you can't log on for over a week because of a computer failure or a natural disaster, you have bigger things to worry about than a digital dog. Though many of your points are valid, I completely disagree with you on point #1. I don't care if it's 100,000 for 6 stabilizers or 100 for 600 stabilizers, the game is punishing you simply for having a Kubrow. And I don't care how much it's punishing you, it's the concept that it's punishing you at all for getting your dog that's just...unreasonable. I can get 100,000 credits in 12 days easy, sure, but I would much prefer to spend them on something other than just keeping my dog alive because apparently they die over time for some indiscriminate reason. Not to mention the whole "find a Kubrow egg for a 1/4 chance to get the functionality that you actually want!" That's just...well, I'll just stick to sentinels if that's the case, because when I make them, they actually do the thing that I wanted them to from the get-go. The stabilizers are probably meant as a money sink, really. Veteran players don't really have anything to spend credits on, except crafting and trade taxes. Some players are sitting on millions upon millions of credits. Edited July 27, 2014 by Vargras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geneticfate Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 So... if someone has an unforseeable issue that does not enable them to play the game, they should lose their Kubrow and the hours of resources and time investment it took to get it? I mean, no one ever is unable to login to their PC/console to play warframe for over a week sometimes due to computer failure or natural disaster.. Are you insane?.. Stasis is a thing you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwc153 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I'm pretty sure if you can't log on for over a week because of a computer failure or a natural disaster, you have bigger things to worry about than a digital dog. Subjective value theory, look it up. Stasis is a thing you know. Unforseeable disaster. You can't go put it in stasis because you are unable to access warframe. Bye bye. No more kubrow. Edited July 27, 2014 by bwc153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geneticfate Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Unforseeable disaster. You can't go put it in stasis because you are unable to access warframe. Each time you log out, put it in stasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Unforseeable disaster. You can't go put it in stasis because you are unable to access warframe. Again, if you're involved in a natural disaster and can't log on, you have bigger things to worry about than a digital dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feallike Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Though many of your points are valid, I completely disagree with you on point #1. I don't care if it's 100,000 for 6 stabilizers or 100 for 600 stabilizers, the game is punishing you simply for having a Kubrow. And I don't care how much it's punishing you, it's the concept that it's punishing you at all for getting your dog that's just...unreasonable. I can get 100,000 credits in 12 days easy, sure, but I would much prefer to spend them on something other than just keeping my dog alive because apparently they die over time for some indiscriminate reason. Not to mention the whole "find a Kubrow egg for a 1/4 chance to get the functionality that you actually want!" That's just...well, I'll just stick to sentinels if that's the case, because when I make them, they actually do the thing that I wanted them to from the get-go. 1. its not punishing at all if you actually play, also if you don't have a million credits by MR 8 then idk what to say. 2. having 2 imprints of the same breed Kubrow gives you a 75% chance of getting the kubrow you want. (or 100% chance) so, if you just traded with your clan you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbaliskInfinite Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 You didn't touch on, arguably, the worst mechanic: Stasis and all its wrongs. All those things you posted I can live with (except for finding my Kubrow during bleedout and a *few* other things). 1. its not punishing at all if you actually play, also if you don't have a million credits by MR 8 then idk what to say. Mastery Rank and current total of credits have absolutely nothing to do with each other, you know that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NN13 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Ah,OP....Nice post....You came out with what is not wrong with Kubrow. Here is what is wrong with Kubrows(minus the "Kubrows die easily" part)- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/272009-overall-kubrow-feedback/#entry3142941 Have fun reading =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalarcher Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 The stabilizers are probably meant as a money sink, really. Veteran players don't really have anything to spend credits on, except crafting and trade taxes. Some players are sitting on millions upon millions of credits. Yes, you're right, they're probably a credit sink, but I would prefer to have a credit sink that actually does something. Plus, aren't Kubrows part of the new-user experience? It's a pretty early quest, considering you only have to kill Jackal to start it. Having a 100,000 credit sink for new players seems a bit...excessive. Give me a 100,000 credit slot machine that spits out a couple rare resources, don't make me pay to have something I already spent time and effort getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDevil Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Stasis is my only problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 You didn't touch on, arguably, the worst mechanic: Stasis and all its wrongs. All those things you posted I can live with (except for finding my Kubrow during bleedout and a *few* other things). I touched on the timers, but not really stasis itself. Also, just mark your kubrow at the start of the mission with G. They show up as an enemy, for some reason, but the mark persists until you place a new one. Can make it easier to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 The cost and amount of stabilizer is just overtoned. More real if they decrease the cost just 20k credit and each buy gives you 10-20 stabilizer which gives you 50% everytime when you use it. The Kubrows should just lose 10% day and then you can care for them enough because you have enough time to watch their life. The other points maybe valid but I haven't still any Kubrow. This game when every new come is overtoned and before patch sounds always punishing and come with high grind. That you have a pet is not mean now then you just grind that 100k for it and after try to do something. I disagree the grindfactory because I am just come to enjoy the game and sometimes the game punish you with bad design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 1. its not punishing at all if you actually play, also if you don't have a million credits by MR 8 then idk what to say. I'm MR9 and never once have I had over a million credits. In fact, rarely do I have more than 100k credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm MR9 and never once have I had over a million credits. In fact, rarely do I have more than 100k credits. Play Sechura a couple of times. Just any high-level Dark Sector mission, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Honestly, my main beef with them is their entire direction. They reek of f2p BS (as you mention) and taste like PWE. Pointless Grind walls/RNG are not fun or engaging or why I put in money for this game If I would've known DE would be spending so much development time/hype (they were the main part of what 3 livestreams?) I would've reconsidered being a founder on putting an money into this game at all. Also, just because something is put out, doesn't mean we should just take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feallike Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm MR9 and never once have I had over a million credits. In fact, rarely do I have more than 100k credits. Let me phrase it better. If you aren't able to fairly easily get 1 million credits by MR8. Then i don't know what to say to you. That better. -.-* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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