I'm Sort Of Becoming A Crowd Control Snob...

[[DE]Momaw]

I'm having a harder and harder time these days justifying the use of any frame that doesn't offer crowd control features.  This is all my opinion.  You may feel free to offer your reasoned rebuttals, but at this point I have well over a thousand hours invested in the game and I will laugh in your face if you claim I am not properly experienced.

 

It goes like this:  Almost all attack abilities are pointless for high level missions because they don't scale. The ones that do damage significant enough to rely on to the end of the solar system (like Miasma) are ultimate abilities, and pressing 4 to clear each room in turn is boring. The ones that do scale well (like Antimatter Drop) are in the minority and generally leave you vulnerable while you employ them.

 

Which is a problem because defenses don't scale worth a damn.

 

Your shield strength basically stops even being a factor around level 30 for anything except Exterminate missions because enemies do too much damage and come from too many angles for your slow-&#! delay and recharge speed to keep up.  (Exterminate is an exception because you can choose the pacing of the mission, and safely wait for your shields between engagements).  As far as shields go, either you are playing low level missions and are functionally a demigod where it takes an entire army of enemies to bash through them, or you play high level missions and you can absorb about a second of enemy fire every twenty seconds when your sentinel's Guardian comes off cooldown. If you want real staying power, the things that matter are abilities which are absolute in their ability to protect you (Snow Globe, Electric Shield), or make you outright invulnerable (Hysteria). Invulnerability is boring, but it's no coincidence that Volt and Frost rank high on my list of favorites.

 

Then we come to crowd control, which to me is the real heart and soul of high level gameplay. Personal defenses swiftly become paper thin, and attack abilities are mostly irrelevant, but crowd control always works because it acts on the enemy's AI which doesn't change a jot at any level.  Enemies who are suffering from chained knockdowns, Chaos, Blindness, etc, can't hurt you and are simply fish in a barrel for you to poke at.

 

Which makes me not even want to really invest (neither forma nor emotional attachment) in frames that can't bring serious crowd control to the table, because I feel like they have a fairly nasty performance ceiling.

 

:-/

[Not_Oliver]

only frame that works w/out "crowd control" is valk <3

[Snydrex]

I don't grind in this game. So to me, every frame with a gun has some manner of crowd control.

 

btw what's a T4?

 

#CROWDcontrolmorelikeCLOWNControl

#watrucasul

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Hence why I main Vauban <3

[Archistopheles]

I prefer immortal frames. #Trinity4lyfe

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

I'm finding it harder and harder to justify using any Warframe abilities...

[manub]

simple excalibur with radial blind is one of my favorite frames

[xethier]

um... loki?

radial disarm + decoy = i own crowd control.

 

to me, loki seems to be the ground floor of CC. 

add in vauban + frost and you've got a formula for turning anything into sheep for the slaughter.

 

but you're correct in that direct damage abilities are useless past level 35 or so.

 

the only abilities that really matter after that are CC. no question.

Edited September 9, 2014 by xethier

[Monybags33]

Its becoming harder for me as a Nova player too have anyone not blame me for killing everything on the field. I really enjoy playing Nova but her abilities annihilate everything, it just depends who you play with I have a group of my own so everyone knows what Warframe I play. No issues their.

[Gelkor]

I'd argue that any type of utility is always better than raw damage.  One of the reasons I focus my Rhino build on  Roar and Stomp CC duration.  Though lately I'm tempted to swap Stomp for Charge for cheaper, though weaker, CC.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Gelkor

[Feallike]

The only frame i don't CC with in High level Content is Saryn and Valkyr.

 

Valkyr for T4S: Since i am obsessed in making MR 16 people jealous that i am at their level of gameplay while still being 6 ranks under them. :p

 

Saryn for everything else: Molt is such a good defense, and Saryn is fun to use.

 

For CC.

 

Banshee: Is the best defense frame ever.

 

Nova: Her slow debuff, and armor ignoring Antimatter drop is nice.

 

LokiP: Radial disarm....

 

Vauban: Because iz soez goodz iz havez boobenz Mrsterrace

 

Zephyr: Tornado is a nice stun, and gotta love that Rhino skin 2.0

 

 

My Mains:

 

Valkyr, Saryn, and Zephyr: they feel the most run and gun characters, and Saryn and Zephyr are ballanced for Nonvoid content.

 

Banshee: when i feel like having a challange in high end missions.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Feallike

[Sixty5]

Shields are a factor if you use them right.

Abusing line of sight, cover and mobility are what lets them work.

Running shield recharge mods also helps.

For instance, when playing Banshee I can be a bit more reckless than if I was running a mirage. Why? Because I can use my first and fourth abilities to break combat and recover.

CC has always been an important factor to me, coming from ME3 MP it was what carried me through a lot of the games I played. However, you can stun, stagger and otherwise annoy enemies all day, but unless you can put out the deeps, it isn't much good.

That is why Banshee and Mirage are my top frames, it's why I like Ash over Valkyr, it is why I use a Latron Prime over most other weapons.

Yes CC is nice, but you still need damage.

Sidenote, damage powers do have awful scaling (to strong early, redundant later) and I have been thinking on that subject recently and have some ideas.

[Flamed]

You should become one. I don't see why some people still say every warframe is viable in T4 survivals. It's pretty clear that any Warframe with a good cc is can be used in end game. It's also why they gave Oberon a lot off CC when they buffed him.

[Sixty5]

You should become one. I don't see why some people still say every warframe is viable in T4 survivals. It's pretty clear that any Warframe with a good cc is can be used in end game. It's also why they gave Oberon a lot off CC when they buffed him.

I still say every frame is viable in t4s.

Pair them with the right weapons and playstyle and they will do fine.

[xethier]

I still say every frame is viable in t4s.

Pair them with the right weapons and playstyle and they will do fine.

 

don't forget pairing them with other warframes and their weapons.

it's not all a one-man-show in t4. the more your teamwork is used effectively, the better the match.

[Oakenman]

my favorite frames are Loki, Vauban, Volt, Oberon, and Rhino. I think i have the CC thing

[ViLeDeth]

CC is King. Glad you're coming around to seeing it being the best thing there is on the field.

 

A snob in this game is someone who thinks MR16+ means they are pro or that having a prime version of a warframe means they'll succeed more.

In most cases, no boltor prime = you are not "good" player. That's the snob mentality.

 

 

 

My feelings about recruiting:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297972-i-look-at-recruiting-channel-and-i/

Edited September 9, 2014 by ViLeDeth

[Domesticon]

Can't quite blame you for your opinion due to it being right. Towards Endgame you go down pretty quickly and the best way to prevent that is CC. Hence why I like Hydroid, really flexible for CC and such.

[Noble_Cactus]

My heart goes a-flutter when I see another Banshee using Silence. That's about once every two months, though.

 

The only exception to this rule is Nekros, but that's because he's an anomaly when it comes to how the frame interacts with the game's dynamics. His CC is pretty poor and if/when they do take a look at Nekros, I hope they pay special attention to bringing Terrify/Shadows up to a usable level (Shadows is decent at clogging up hallways when you're reviving someone after using Terrify, I know).

[ViLeDeth]

My heart goes a-flutter when I see another Banshee using Silence. That's about once every two months, though.

 

The only exception to this rule is Nekros, but that's because he's an anomaly when it comes to how the frame interacts with the game's dynamics. His CC is pretty poor and if/when they do take a look at Nekros, I hope they pay special attention to bringing Terrify/Shadows up to a usable level (Shadows is decent at clogging up hallways when you're reviving someone after using Terrify, I know).

 

I miss seeing Banshees...I take her out for a spin every now and then and always enjoyed her. 

 

 

Btw, Momaw thanks for making this thread!

[(PSN)AishaCtarl]

Valkyr for prez!

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to a more appropriate section.

[RSITH]

Valkyr the that cat.

[StinkyPygmy]

Your right to a point. But i feel like that just highlights a major problem within WF itself.

That being relying on endless, exponential scaling and the lack of difficulty created through enemy synergy and tactics, along with engaging objectives and mission types.

 

Don't get me wrong, this is slowly changing with the addition of mutalist ospreys for example (which synergise fairly well with the rest of the swarm) and mission type like extraction. Sure, extraction is arguably just extended mobile defense but it definitely is a step in the right direction. It also just highlights the flaw with the way the game scales in difficulty and the modding system. You start out as a wee little babby and have a bit of a tough time till you rank up gear, learn mechanics and find a few mods. After that you pretty much exponentially outclass everything till you hit the ceiling. Then the only way to find much of a challenge is to essentially "break" the game by playing past what things are balanced for, which is where CC becomes almost all that matters.

 

So I agree for the most part. I'm just honestly hoping this can be fixed through adjustments to the above issues.

Most games don't have an inverse difficulty curve like WF has and instead follow more of a wave format in difficulty. You start out with almost nothing and have your hand held, then you start to learn the mechanics and the training wheels slowly come off, then you hit a peak in difficulty, get some new toys/enemies as a reward, time to play with said toys then up to another peak. 

Rinse and repeat.

 

WF is unique in that regard.

Edited September 10, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[jarthur]

this makes me ask should I be going for power/duration or duration/range with a mirage because i agree higher lvls you either need to be invulnerable (power/duration eclipse in the shadows 45 sec) or have some sort of CC (duration/range double tap 4 for 33 sec blind)