Feedback For Weapon Sounds: The "audio Nerf"

[bejuizb]

I've been meaning to provide my two cents on the current sound effects for weaponry in Warframe, and after experiencing sounds from a myriad of shooters as a reference, I believe I'm ready enough to provide unbiased feedback. Please understand that this is just my personal feedback, and not everything I say is a fact. I won't be putting up a TL;DR as well; just read the entire post.

 

Weapons in Warframe a diverse and varied, and it can be accepted that the sounds that these weapons generate (with the exception of melee weapons of course) are almost as diverse. But something that is commonplace for all these weapons is the aural feedback they provide to us. I can count about a small handful of weapons that really have some sensation of power to them. The very first weapon that comes to mind has to be the Brakk. To me, this weapon has everything in the perfect mix: enough oomph to warrant hand-cannon status, and enough crispness to not sound like two steel ingots grating against each other. The second weapon that comes to mind is the Hek. The Hek sounds phenomenal, and it really does feel like a high power shotgun.

 

That word right there: feel. Weapons in Warframe might be powerful statistically, but they don't seem to feel powerful. Key culprits for this have to be the Latron Prime, and the Opticor. The Latron Prime, a high caliber DMR (designated marksman rifle) has a high pitched whistle to it. Why? It doesn't use any non-conventional ammunition by the looks of it (just like almost all Tenno weapons), and yet it has a whistle to it. Guns generally have a lot of pressure waves generated from them, which gives the oomph or “bass” if you will. The Brakk has moderate oomph and so does the Hek.

All weapons in the game feel flat. They lack the core elements that make a gun feel powerful. The Soma sounds powerful, but it is also obnoxiously loud, which is nice. The gun feels very serious and deadly. The Braton on the other hand...not so much. The Braton Prime shares the same whistle gimmick that the Latron Prime has. Prime weapons are Orokin relics, I understand, but from a gameplay perspective, it sounds horrendous.

 

The Opticor. The community dubbed “Spartan Laser”. Gigantic gun that shoots a very, very powerful hitscan projectile. And yet it sounds like it's shooting streamers or whistling firecrackers. I don't mean to be offensive or hurt any of the sound team, but that is the aural response I get from the gun. There is no sound present that warrants or exemplifies the oomph that logic dictates that gun should have.

 

Most weapons in the game get buffs statistically, so that they perform better, but I almost never see weapons get buffs in the “feeling” department. The old U8/U9 Gorgon was a terrifying weapon. It sounded hideously clunky and beefy, and somewhere along the pipeline the sound quality of all weapons and game elements has been softened, and that really deadens the atmosphere. The old Vipers, Latron, Mk1 Braton, Latos, Strun; all those weapons come to mind when I think about the self dubbed “audio nerf”.

 

In conclusion, Warframe weapons need some serious love in the sound department, and while I understand that the dev focus is obviously catered towards newer weapon releases, simply releasing more weapons which have the same glaring issue as the hundreds of others already available isn't very productive. Please note once again, that this is merely my personal feedback on the matter. Yours might vary, and I'd be interested to know what others think about this as well.

[vaugahn]

It does feel like many weapons are missing a bass component to their sound.

I mean, the sounds are all good. They're varied and unique, but it feels like someone left out the bass line when they were put together. Even the small, high-pitched weapons should have some thump to them.

[Sasquatchias]

I agree completely.

 

I had crafted the Amphis a while back, and one thing that really stood out to me about it was how wimpy it sounded. It seriously sounded like I was hitting enemies with a hollow plastic tube compared to the huge hunk of metal I was actually wielding. 

[Zagrax]

I agree. Many of the weapons of the game are lacking in the -sounding- effective and powerful department.

[bejuizb]

It does feel like many weapons are missing a bass component to their sound.

I mean, the sounds are all good. They're varied and unique, but it feels like someone left out the bass line when they were put together. Even the small, high-pitched weapons should have some thump to them.

I was hesitant to use the word bass, because I didn't want to end up sounding like an idiot (I don't know anything about music apart from general genre names), but if bass is the right word, that is exactly what the guns are lacking.

 

 

I agree completely.

 

I had crafted the Amphis a while back, and one thing that really stood out to me about it was how wimpy it sounded. It seriously sounded like I was hitting enemies with a hollow plastic tube compared to the huge hunk of metal I was actually wielding. 

The Bo's hit sounds are funny to me. If I remember correctly, the audio team said that they made the sound by banging hollow pipes or air ducts or something.

[[DE]George]

Hey bejuizb,

 

Thanks for the feedback.  

 

Creating sound design is largely a game of contrast.  In order for things to sound big, some things need to sound small... and some things need to fall in between.  There also needs to be balance between the different sounds in the game.  In order for an explosion to feel loud and powerful, the gunshot has to be not as loud.  The same goes for bass.  If we put too much in the mix then everything ends up sounding muddy and rumbly and you lose the ability to hear definition in the overall sound of the game.  

 

So... we try to create each weapon's sound with all of the above in mind.  We don't want players to get too fatigued by an overwhelming gun sound that is a lot louder than everything else.  That's not to say we don't try to make the gun sounds loud and powerful... we do (in fact the guns are the loudest things, aside from explosions and powers, in Warframe).  There is also a very delicate balance that we have to maintain between enemy gunfire (so you know who is shooting at you), enemy yells, and other player sounds.  There are also a TON of weapons in Warframe now and they can't all simply be louder and heavier than the last... otherwise there would be nowhere to go with the next.  And, we like to make each weapon have it's own sonic signature so that you can easily recognize it in a battle.

 

That all being said, can we make things sound even better?  Sure, and we aim for that with every update that gets sent out.  We never stop trying to one-up everything we do, and we do go back and revise things as needed.  Just like every other part of the game, the sound in Warframe is an ever-evolving facet and we try to give players the best possible all-around experience with every update.

 

Thanks for listening. 

[vaugahn]

I was hesitant to use the word bass, because I didn't want to end up sounding like an idiot (I don't know anything about music apart from general genre names), but if bass is the right word, that is exactly what the guns are lacking.

 

I'm not sure if bass is totally accurate, there are just some weapons that feel like they could use a little more "punch".

 

And, we like to make each weapon have it's own sonic signature so that you can easily recognize it in a battle.

 

This is something I actually took for granted for a very long time...I was playing battlefield one weekend and lamenting some of the weapon sounds, and it suddenly hit me that in Warframe I could always tell exactly what was shooting at me by the sound of the gun alone. 

Edited October 30, 2014 by vaugahn

[Evil_Brick]

I agree that some weapons are lacking in the department of how mighty they sound. But i also agree that not everything can sound as powerful, and i understand that it's a difficult thing to balance.

 

Not to mention i do appreciate how just about every gun has a different sound, from the rapid thud of a Grakata to the pebbles-on-a-tin-roof Soma to the crunching cycling of the Latron. These are all examples of guns i enjoy the sound of however.

 

I understand the difficulties... Well, i like to think i understand, what with not being a developer and only having basic acoustics educations... Either way, maybe some of the weaker-sounding things could need a tiny tweak? This is mostly directed at staff of course, but i'm sure that with just a little nudge, some of the less-popular (sound-wise) weapons could be brought forth without utterly wrecking the sound balance of the entire game?

[Shifted]

-snip-

Can't believe you forgot about Boltors.

 

The regular Boltor has an amazing, deep "thud" every time you shoot.

 

Now the Prime, which is hands down the most powerful weapon in the game, does a silly "pew pew".

[Sitchrea]

The only things I would wish for atm is for the Opticore to sound like an irl Railgun.

 

Seriously, those things are scary!

 

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

The only things I would wish for atm is for the Opticore to sound like an irl Railgun.

 

Seriously, those things are scary!

 

Off the hook. Make the Opticor sound like this to emphasize its power!

[Seox]

Hey bejuizb,

 

Thanks for the feedback.  

 

Creating sound design is largely a game of contrast.  In order for things to sound big, some things need to sound small... and some things need to fall in between.  There also needs to be balance between the different sounds in the game.  In order for an explosion to feel loud and powerful, the gunshot has to be not as loud.  The same goes for bass.  If we put too much in the mix then everything ends up sounding muddy and rumbly and you lose the ability to hear definition in the overall sound of the game.  

 

So... we try to create each weapon's sound with all of the above in mind.  We don't want players to get too fatigued by an overwhelming gun sound that is a lot louder than everything else.  That's not to say we don't try to make the gun sounds loud and powerful... we do (in fact the guns are the loudest things, aside from explosions and powers, in Warframe).  There is also a very delicate balance that we have to maintain between enemy gunfire (so you know who is shooting at you), enemy yells, and other player sounds.  There are also a TON of weapons in Warframe now and they can't all simply be louder and heavier than the last... otherwise there would be nowhere to go with the next.  And, we like to make each weapon have it's own sonic signature so that you can easily recognize it in a battle.

 

That all being said, can we make things sound even better?  Sure, and we aim for that with every update that gets sent out.  We never stop trying to one-up everything we do, and we do go back and revise things as needed.  Just like every other part of the game, the sound in Warframe is an ever-evolving facet and we try to give players the best possible all-around experience with every update.

 

Thanks for listening. 

 

I really appreciate your response! It means a lot to get some official recognition for this.

 

I respectfully disagree - you're right that you need contrast to really appreciate the peaks and troughs, but nothing about that precludes having weapons that sound beefy. Loud isn't even the right word, I think. If you get a chance, go listen to mass effect's grenades (that sound in the background @ 3:37 

)

 

Now THAT is a punchy sound that carries some weight to it. You really get a feel for the "shockwave" coming off of the explosion. 

 

Your point seems to imply that what counts is the contrast and not the baseline that most guns sit at, and I'm not convinced this is the case. Even if this is correct, there's certainly a contrast - between other games and warframe. When the opticor sounds like one of fallout's laser pistols, people notice, and Warframe's gunplay and "feel" suffers as a result of it.

 

Why is it that the new AW weapons that are the size of my warframe sound like submachine guns? Again, this isn't about volume or similar sound signature - it's about that punchy and crisp "pop" that really makes you get a sense of the power of the weapon you're using. Take a look at this, only a few seconds in: 

Warframe weapons seem too muffled and like they have too much echo/reverb to get that clarity and bang sometimes.

 

 

 

By the way, the Buzlok is how to do a machine gun sound right. It sounds beautiful! I definitely feel that there are some shining examples of satisfying, deep, and powerful sounds in the game, they're just a bit rare and need some help.

 

@OP, thanks for getting some recognition on a topic that's been bugging me like crazy for a long time now.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Seox

[Egg_Chen]

Overall I do like the weapon sounds, but agree some need a review.

I don't mind the pew pew of the Latron P for example, but do think it needs to be a bit louder, or have a reverb after effect like the Stillettos.

Biggest culprit by far is the Twin Vipers, they just don't sound like Grineer machine pistols with insane fire rate!

That said, the Karak, Buzlock and a few others are awesome!

I would also love the Archwing machine gun (forget name) to get an audio buff, it needs to sound like a space gattling gun, just look at the size of the thing.

The sound team do constantly tweak stuff judging by patch notes, and overall WF sound quality surpasses many other games I play, keep up the good work guys.

[Llyssa]

Hm. The only weapon I ever had a problem with was the magistar... I can see how the sound fits, but it sounded like someone banging a whisk on a metal plate(which is probably exactly what it was). I always found that awkward, but I haven't used it in 8 months(it's a poor weapon for a melee-centric style), so I don't know if the sound is still the same.

[bejuizb]

@[DE]George

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. While I do understand what you were trying to go for with regards to the unique nature of weapon sounds and the aspect of balance between weapons, a fundamental point I'm trying to bring up is trying to make weapons sounds slightly logical. The Grakata is perfect in that regard. It seems like a very high rate of fire BB gun, considering the weird magazine shape, and therefore the sound it makes is appropriate. The Imperator on the other hand, is a massive machine gun, that is almost as big as the Tenno wielding it, and yet it sounds almost as soft and...flimsy if you will. Very heavy caliber guns need to sound powerful, or that's how I feel.

 

Warframe has a few guns that are big and hit very hard, and they could use the whole bass treatment I was mentioning. Those guns would be the one that would immediately grab everyone's attention because of how insane and menacing they sound. Now, this does not mean other guns need to be made mediocre just for the sake of the big and heavy weapons. With regards to keeping weapon sounds unique, I beileve that's not an issue whatsoever. Enemies use a set few weapons, and Warframe is close ranged in nature, therefore all the weapons can be seen and heard just fine. All the weapons sound unique enough right now, so I believe that goal is achieved.

 

The crux of my feedback is the fact that the weapons as a whole need some oomph to them, where appropriate. I don't want the entire battlefield to sound like some heavy metal concert as well. But nonetheless, I appreciate your response, and wait to see what the sound design team can pull out of their hat next.

[Kontrollo]

Sorry for the necro, but I have to say this:

 

Can't believe you forgot about Boltors.

 

The regular Boltor has an amazing, deep "thud" every time you shoot.

 

Now the Prime, which is hands down the most powerful weapon in the game, does a silly "pew pew".

 

I'm still regularly running around with the Boltor, because that's the weapon I "grew up" with. I haven't been using it and its Prime variant back to back until now, and it just hit me: The Prime is lacking in the sound department. I've already noticed they had a different sound, but I think I've attributed it to the difference in fire rate.

 

Now that I've switched back and forth in several missions, here's what these two guns feel like to me:

• The Boltor sounds like I'm firing something heavy, something that would even fill Dracula with fear should I wave it in his general direction. ;)
  
• The Boltor Prime on the other hand has a smoother firing sound with a bit of a whistle to it. Now you could say that's the sound of a weapon with a much higher manufacturing quality. However, in comparison to the Boltor, this doesn't sound like firing some kind of heavy stake. It feels more like what the bolts themselves look like: a dart gun. On the plus side, it's still immediately recognisable as a Boltor weapon.

 

But if you'd ask me which one of those two weapons is capable of impaling enemies to walls, my money would be on the regular Boltor for sure.

[Xennocide420]

I do agree that the sound of my Soma Prime is rather disappointing. I wish it sounded like a legit assault weapon banging away.

[CY13ERPUNK]

i think its kinda funny/sad that the vast majority of the weapons and abilities had so much more OOMPH! to them back in earlier beta (even CB)

 

the game is in many ways, less atmospheric than it used to be =/

[Repligon]

In order for an explosion to feel loud and powerful, the gunshot has to be not as loud.

In other words you felt like explosions sound too weak (and they are) comparing to guns and to compensate this you weaken guns sound. Am I right?