Heavy Weapon Buffs :d

[9IR_nullfield]

Well, some weapons have to be stronger than others. It's not an issue of power creep. It's just progression from newbie to veteran.

 

There's really no reason to hate this update since every weapon got a buff. Yes, some got greater buffs than others, but they're still buffs.

Sensible progression from lower-tier weapons to higher-tier weapons =/= One Weapon to Rule Them All™. It's perfectly reasonable for weapons in lower tiers to have a niche that makes them viable and sets them apart from higher-tier weapons, like the Fragor's high crit chance or the Magistar's fast attack speed back in Melee 1.0.

 

You say that it's simply a natural progression from newbie weapons to higher ones, but every update that buffs heavy weapons, I'm only seeing the variety decrease as stats are homogenized.

 

And I don't hate this update - heavy weapons are far and away better than they were pre-patch and got a well-deserved buff. I'm just concerned that if this update is any indication, DE is moving in a direction that will obsolete all but one melee weapon in a single category like the Dakra Prime did with swords.

 

EDIT: and just realized that this post is a rephrasing of my previous one that doesn't add anything new. Nevermind me, I'm tired.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Rebulite

[Lukedu_]

Make Gram faster or give it more status chance and this update will have all of my love.

[Yazeth]

Sensible progression from lower-tier weapons to higher-tier weapons =/= One Weapon to Rule Them All™. It's perfectly reasonable for weapons in lower tiers to have a niche that makes them viable and sets them apart from higher-tier weapons, like the Fragor's high crit chance or the Magistar's fast attack speed back in Melee 1.0.

 

You say that it's simply a natural progression from newbie weapons to higher ones, but every update that buffs heavy weapons, I'm only seeing the variety decrease as stats are homogenized.

 

And I don't hate this update - heavy weapons are far and away better than they were pre-patch and got a well-deserved buff. I'm just concerned that if this update is any indication, DE is moving in a direction that will obsolete all but one melee weapon in a single category like the Dakra Prime did with swords.

 

So... how to we fix something like this? I mean, for melee weapons, we are mainly talking about different models of the same weapon type, but with different stats. We see this with melee weapons really easy, where one will out-do the other. There's nothing much you can really do, since two weapons of the same weapon type will provide the same mechanics. The only thing you can differentiate melee weapons of the same type in this game currently is by changing the stats. 

 

Guns, though, are a different matter, since we have seen a lot of unique types of guns with unique mechanics. I'm not sure how you can differentiate melee weapons in this game, really. Only thing I can see is that DE provide melee weapons for each melee type that are end game material, at least one for each. I guess another thing is to provide a full-on dmg and a crit dmg weapon for each of the weapon type, providing 2 viable end-game weapons for one type of weapon.

 

But yeah, I see no good way to fix this currently. The only two solution I see are buff & add more melee weapons, or add additional melee mechanics and make certain weapon types to take advantage of those mechanic (and make it viable).

[Allenaattori]

GALATINE IS GREAT AGAIN

Galatine has always been great, now it's just.....I don't know the correct word, I will describe it as INSANE for now.

Edited November 6, 2014 by CookingFood

[Smoking-Ashes]

isnt Orthos/Prime a heavy weap? also it doesnt really make sense tht the weapons that arent heavy, have the same attack speed as heavy weaps...or "vice a versa"  .

 

PS: Why in the world does a "sheev" have a low attack speed than a galatine?.......idk....DE listens to the majoraty tht rages rather than the minority tht gives "constructive" feedback...oh well im not going to be able to play until upd16 or 17 :(

[Yazeth]

isnt Orthos/Prime a heavy weap? also it doesnt really make sense tht the weapons that arent heavy, have the same attack speed as heavy weaps...or "vice a versa"  .

 

PS: Why in the world does a "sheev" have a low attack speed than a galatine?.......idk....DE listens to the majoraty tht rages rather than the minority tht gives "constructive" feedback...oh well im not going to be able to play until upd16 or 17 :(

 

1) Orthos isn't a heavy wep

 

2) Daggers are weird atm. They definitely need to be looked at.

[hanyizzle]

so sad. sold my potatoed galatine after it became bad T_T

[Arunafeltz]

Magistar speed sniff sniff

[Valkyr-Umbra]

Nice :D I hope snipers get buffed next.

[Teljaxx]

So... how to we fix something like this? I mean, for melee weapons, we are mainly talking about different models of the same weapon type, but with different stats. We see this with melee weapons really easy, where one will out-do the other. There's nothing much you can really do, since two weapons of the same weapon type will provide the same mechanics. The only thing you can differentiate melee weapons of the same type in this game currently is by changing the stats. 

 

Guns, though, are a different matter, since we have seen a lot of unique types of guns with unique mechanics. I'm not sure how you can differentiate melee weapons in this game, really. Only thing I can see is that DE provide melee weapons for each melee type that are end game material, at least one for each. I guess another thing is to provide a full-on dmg and a crit dmg weapon for each of the weapon type, providing 2 viable end-game weapons for one type of weapon.

 

But yeah, I see no good way to fix this currently. The only two solution I see are buff & add more melee weapons, or add additional melee mechanics and make certain weapon types to take advantage of those mechanic (and make it viable).

 

Simply having different stats between weapons that are otherwise the same can be enough to make them all worthwhile.

 

Take the Galatine, Gram, and Scindo. They all use the same animations and stances, but their different models and stats make them different weapons. The problem is that currently their positives and negatives do not balance out, making some better than others. The Galatine has range and damage as its main advantages, while the Gram is shorter and weaker, and the Scindo is even slower as well. So the Galatine is really the only one of these three weapons that is worth using, especially since they all basically cost the same to make.

 

I felt that the balance between these three weapons was almost right before this buff. The Scindo had the highest damage, but was slow. The Galatine was long range, but did less damage to compensate. The Gram was the only one out of balance, having low damage, range, and speed. If the Gram's speed had been increased to bring its DPS up to the Scindo's, then they would have been well balanced together, and they would each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The Galatine would be long range, the Scindo high damage, and the Gram high speed. That way, those players that like the way the axe/greatsword type melee works would have the choice of exactly which one fits their playstyle best, instead of just picking the Galatine because it far outshines the others.

 

The Gram is not as bad comparatively as it was before the buff, but it still needs more. My suggestion is to decrease the Galatine's damage to 90~100, increase the Scindo to 120, and increase the speed of the Gram to 1.1 or 1.2. That way: Galatine = high range, low damage. Gram = High speed, low range. Scindo = High damage, low speed.

[Deidaku]

While I definitely think that heavy weapons needed a buff, and got it with this patch...

 

I'm not sold. The changes seem arbitrary and lack polish, and in the process of buffing the heavy weapons, they made some of them worthless. The changes to the Magistar made it completely inferior to the Fragor, and the Jat Kittag's crit buff means that it's now nearly superior to the Fragor too. The Fragor's main strength before was its high 20% crit chance, allowing it to use Berserker. The Jat Kittag now has barely less crit chance, at 15%, but it also has 20 more base damage, 15% extra status chance, and more base attack speed on top of it. That's utterly absurd, even if it is clantech, and removes the only niche the Fragor had before the update.

 

In addition to my misgivings about the Jat Kittag and Scindo Prime basically eclipsing every other heavy weapon in the entire game, I'm also confused as to the massive crit buffs on heavy melee weapons when weapons like the Fang Prime and Ceramic Dagger still sit at around 5%. Or the complete disregard for scythes, which have cemented themselves as the worst heavy weapons in the game with this update.

 

Ideally, every melee weapon should get more love like the heavy weapons did. I'm just not sure if this is the best way to go about it - introducing strict weapon tierings into every weapon class that makes all but one weapon in the class obsolete. We already had enough of that with the Dakra Prime, so why introduce it elsewhere?

Well it is prime  it has to be superior in some way

[Phoenix86]

to me the problem was never the lack of damage on the weapons. it was more the lack of mobility and slow attack speed. i am not sure why people are so excited about it. not trying to be a hater, just saying. unless you can 1-shot things you are still going to have the same problems of being reduced to walking speed and getting stuck in slow animation chains. 

 

well heavies gotta be.. you know.... heavy.

[D3ST]

Im confused, was it all heavy weaps. that was buffed, or only the ones listed in the patch notes?

[DoomStick]

scythe no buff?

[DeltaZERO5411]

I have a question please answer i need answer ASAP!

Is the nikana best in full stance mode(equiped) or better with my main equiped and use quick slash?

Ps I have the blind justice stance MAXED

[Hatzeputt]

Instead of being happy that certain weapons became usable again instead of the same old Dragon Nikana/ Dakra/ Dual Ichor rule all people still complain, do you people go through life without ever being happy and do you always seek the grain of salt everywhere? I am curious. 

 

Heavies were not worth using before, at least now they become somewhat viable, who cares if one  is better than the other, the Hind is also not such a great gun yet I hear no one asking for a buff. Ever tried the Venka? Even with the correct stance those things are so plain bad next to no one ever uses them.  Will they see a buff? Who knows, for now why don´t you people be just happy to have a few more choices for melee.

 

But hey some people even complain when they find 20 $ on the street that it wasn´t 2000 $.

[ROXXXY]

I saw a old school Excalibur with his Gorgon and Galatine and he did barely any damage with the Galatine. So a buff would be nice. Maybye using charge attacks used up large amounts of energy depending on the weapon type. Like a charge attack from Galatine uses 8 energy or so........

[Teljaxx]

Instead of being happy that certain weapons became usable again instead of the same old Dragon Nikana/ Dakra/ Dual Ichor rule all people still complain, do you people go through life without ever being happy and do you always seek the grain of salt everywhere? I am curious. 

 

Heavies were not worth using before, at least now they become somewhat viable, who cares if one  is better than the other, the Hind is also not such a great gun yet I hear no one asking for a buff. Ever tried the Venka? Even with the correct stance those things are so plain bad next to no one ever uses them.  Will they see a buff? Who knows, for now why don´t you people be just happy to have a few more choices for melee.

 

But hey some people even complain when they find 20 $ on the street that it wasn´t 2000 $.

 

I am happy that the more useless melee weapons in the game are now useful. It is a good thing. But why settle for good when something even better is only a step or two away? Would you take a $10 bill you found on the sidewalk, but ignore the $20 bill ten feet away? He, you just got ten bucks! That is enough, right? You do not need more. You should just be happy you got anything at all, right?

 

Sure, we could be content with what we got and not ask for any more. But having even better things is so close. With only a couple small changes, all three sword/axe weapons could be equal brothers in arms. Daggers could be as fast and crit happy as they should be. Scythes could be the soul reapers that nightmares are made of. And more!

 

There is a difference between accepting what you have while striving for that little bit more that is just out of reach, and not accepting what you have because you would rather have the unobtainable. Enjoying Waframe as it is, but wanting it to be even better is not unreasonable. DE would not have a feedback forum if they did not want us to help make the game better, would they?

[Phoenix86]

All melee weapons are better while equipped and with stance/combos to use obviously... Nikana is no exception

 

@D3st and Doomstick: only the weapons mentioned received a buff, none else

[(PSN)Crixus044]

i actually did the math on the new buffs, and even though people say that the scindo prime and the jat kittag are the two best and they eclipse every other weapon, i disagree. I agree that the fragor was sort of left behind with the magister, but the gram has also been left behind. it's a giant sexy plasma sword, but for some reason, DE decided to enhance the Galatine, which is also epic, but i believe design wise should be equal or at least close to the gram, or gram to galatine.

The Galatine also is sort of underrated, because it is actually far superior in amage to the Scindo Prime and Jat Kittag with the same damage increase mods as the other 2, due to the higher concentration of damage to a specific type more than any other heavy, so jagged edge on a galatine will make it more powerful than a scindo prime with a jagged edge or jat kittag with heavy trauma. It also has more range and maybe a little more speed. The only thing that scindo prime and jat kittag have over galatine is a bigger aoe which i'm not sure is true, but it use to be so.

The Jat Kittag has impact damage which is better than slash when it comes to grineer and maybe corpus. Slash is good for grineer and infested. If Scindo Prime was puncture base damage, they'd be the perfect trio. scindo prime for Corpus, Jat Kittag for Grineer, and Galatine for Infested, but i guess logically, an axe isn't about puncture as much as a heavy edge.

Overall i like the update, but people are not seeing the potential and the true purpose of some of the buffs. I understand the ones that were left behind, but don't think that the scindo prime and jat kittag have become god powerly while the others have not. Also think logically, a jet powered hammer/mace is more powerful than a normal hammer, and a huge axe is gonna be more powerful than a huge hammer or magister, which is essentially a pole surrounded by a bunch of small axes. So making the scindo/scindo prime, jat kittag, a galatine more powerful than some of the other melee weapons makes sense.

I personally think the galatine needs a different classification, but i love using cleaving whirlwind on that and i don't trust that a greatsword stance will be as cool or effective as the axe stances, so i'm fine with that. I think the magister should also be called an axe and it would work well with cleaving whirlwind. What so u guys think?

Edited December 17, 2014 by (PS4)Crixus044

[TrinityPrime]

i actually did the math on the new buffs, and even though people say that the scindo prime and the jat kittag are the two best and they eclipse every other weapon, i disagree. I agree that the fragor was sort of left behind with the magister, but the gram has also been left behind. it's a giant sexy plasma sword, but for some reason, DE decided to enhance the Galatine, which is also epic, but i believe design wise should be equal or at least close to the gram, or gram to galatine. The Galatine also is sort of underrated, because it is actually far superior in amage to the Scindo Prime and Jat Kittag with the same damage increase mods as the other 2, due to the higher concentration of damage to a specific type more than any other heavy, so jagged edge on a galatine will make it more powerful than a scindo prime with a jagged edge or jat kittag with heavy trauma. It also has more range and maybe a little more speed. The only thing that scindo prime and jat kittag have over galatine is a bigger aoe which i'm not sure is true, but it use to be so. The Jat Kittag has impact damage which is better than slash when it comes to grineer and maybe corpus. Slash is good for grineer and infested. If Scindo Prime was puncture base damage, they'd be the perfect trio. scindo prime for Corpus, Jat Kittag for Grineer, and Galatine for Infested, but i guess logically, an axe isn't about puncture as much as a heavy edge. Overall i like the update, but people are not seeing the potential and the true purpose of some of the buffs. I understand the ones that were left behind, but don't think that the scindo prime and jat kittag have become god powerly while the others have not. Also think logically, a jet powered hammer/mace is more powerful than a normal hammer, and a huge axe is gonna be more powerful than a huge hammer or magister, which is essentially a pole surrounded by a bunch of small axes. i personally think the galatine needs a different classification, but i love using cleaving whirlwind on it, so i could deal with that. I think the magister should also be called an axe and it would work well with cleaving whirlwind. What so u guys think?

 

I think I'd read more than the first few words up to your first comma and last sentence if it wasn't a giant block of text.

[DarkLordX2]

Thread Necromancy is 9001.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I think I'd read more than the first few words up to your first comma and last sentence if it wasn't a giant block of text.

sorry, i'm typing from my phone, sometimes i press enter on the keypad, but it doesn't start a new paragraph. i'll fix it.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Thread Necromancy is 9001.

I don't mean to resurrect an old debate, but I just had to put that out there since no one else was. I'm just giving an observation and some advice. I use the galatine and it's my go to melee in any fight. I prefer using my kronen for infested or even my Cronus loadout with crimson dervish works for infested, but for corpus, grineer, and void defense and survival missions, I always bring my galatine. Sometimes, I bring just my sword and maybe my bow to get the feeling of a knight.

It works just as good as a guy with a scindo prime and works better on those ancients. I had a friend drop his scindo prime and pickup a galatine with my loadout because he thought it was better. He has buzz kill, so he beat my loadout since I only have jagged edge. But he promised me that the next buzz kill he gets or next mission that gives a buzz kill, it's mine. It's the last piece to the puzzle if giving my galatine the perfect loadout. (at least in my opinion).

Edited December 17, 2014 by (PS4)Crixus044