Petition To Not Nerf Viver

[xkillo32]

Sorry chap. Not going to happen.

wait how do u know it's gonna happen?

[SilverBones]

wait how do u know it's gonna happen?

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[ToxicTroublermaker]

...give thanks to all those Tenno proud enough to brag about their recent exploits. I'm glad. We need more of those Tenno. It helps DE to find the issues sooner than later!!

I really hope thats sarcasm because this isnt an exploit or an issue in the slightest

[StinkyPygmy]

How about addressing the underlying problems that drive people to exploit-y nodes like Viver instead of just kneejerking about your grind spot getting taken away?

BRAVO!

While where at it lets also address the fact syndicates are supposed to take a while to rank up in. They are a long term goal you achieve while playing the game for fun.

Lets also address the fact people feel the need to grind because of the lack of story, mission dynamics and gameplay that is not as engaging as it could be in many areas.

 

Losing the newest grind spot wouldn't be an issue if these problems were addressed in the first place.

Hopefully DE is on the road to doing so.

[AM-Bunny]

I don't see how they'll be able to to do anthing to change Viver, like this individual said:

 

Easy, just change the map to be bigger. Make it Cerberus sized or bigger and nobody will play it.  They'll migrate to Cerberus - which I admittedly don't know a lot about - but it seems much less mindless than Viver.

[TrinityPrime]

How to get a farming node nerfed: Spam the forums with threads like 'Lol 9999+ rep in first few two rounds VIVER ERIS!' then follow them up with 'Don't nerf this, pl0xors!!!111oneone'

 

Guess what's getting nerfed this week.

 

-_-

[KaynArgyr]

Exploit in game terms tends to mean taking advantage of an oversight in the way the game works in order to gain an edge.

Stuff like standing in an area that the enemies cannot get to and raining down death from above.

Viver powerfarm is simply playing in the most efficient manner.

Exploits are like cheating on your tax, whereas Viver is more like working hard, doing your job well, and getting a paY rise

 

The 'in-game terms' excuse seems a poor one to me to avoid a word because it makes one feel guilty.

 

I have never stated that exploiting Viver was anywhere related to cheating, but 'exploit' is a proper term to describe the efficient gathering of a resource. You guys are doing great in my opinion if you can manage so many reputation points in so few time. What makes me disappointed is when you say 'we're not exploiting because this word can have multiple meanings and we don't like one of them'.

 

'Exploit' can also mean a pretty epic and amazing feat. 

 

I have tried that exploit, yeah keeping using the word because I sorta like it, once. With a Nekros.

 

It was pretty boring and since UI glitched for one player we had to leave a wave 2, net me around 1k but I was without boosters and we had to rush things to counter a bad start due to the aforementioned bug.

 

It was pretty rewarding, but boring. Really hard to compare it at someone working hard, feels closer to someone patenting a revolutionary idea.

 

But again, I think that no one has the right to complain if others choose an easier path than the one they decided to take.

 

The way you achieved this much reputation in this little time is going to bring consequences, but seriously none of them is going to affect other players beside sheer jealousy.

 

First: Players may find the game boring after achieving so much in so little time. If the game loses appeal, though, it's their fault and it's not DE that should put a patch toward how they ruined the experience by their own hand. And I used 'may', to be utterly fair as people may also be happy with this and keep playing.

 

Second: Large amount of Reputation can end with large amount of the tradeable mods in the market. Someone could say that it would ruin the market, but let's be honest. If people feels to buy these mods for 200 plats, it's their own choice. It's like how expensive was Tranquil Cleave once and how cheap it has become after people started to play more than the initial two months. Nothing new and nothing DE has been involved anyway so far.

 

Third: To the ones who said that leveling weapons like that is easier. Viver is a level 3x mission. If you can do it properly, even the normal way, it means you have a proper frame and one proper weapon. If you do it with the exploit tactic, then even worse because you have a good amount of Rank 10 mods maxed. And they don't max easy. You're veteran there to max a new weapon for either forma'ing or mastery fodder. Not to revive the newbye experience. If you're a newbye being carried, nerfing Viver won't prevent you to do it anywhere else.

 

Fourth: Boasting in the forums with such high numbers, is a certain way to attract attention. People could have hinted at how to do it discreetly and saying that it was 'a rewarding tactic'. This mess is the very own fault of the people that started these threads.

 

And, yet, all of this doesn't impact on other players' gameplay beside the pretty rare pvp circumstances.

 

But again, due to my aforementioned points, I feel unlikely that DE will nerf the missions themselves. They may wish to rework the Syndicate system and, I hope, they'll change it to something where reputation is easier to achieve even without resorting to such tactics. So that players who would like to take it at a nice pace wouldn't feel the task too hard. Something that makes me feel they may choose this path is the recent change in the Archwing intercepts drop table. 

 

If they now nerf Viver, they'll lose these players who didn't used this tactics because it will become even harder for them to level without resorting to it. And that's something they may not wish for. 

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

I think it'll be nerfed.

Edited November 10, 2014 by --Q--Ascended-Seraphim

[frozenballz]

You can't nerf Viver (Or any endless mission) without making it pointless.

 

It's one of the system 'exploits' that you can't do anything about without punishing the ones not exploiting it.

You can.

 

The single reason why viver is so good for rep farming is because it's a tiny map, and you can sit on ONE POINT and nuke EVERYTHING, since there isnt a spawn cap, the enemies just keep coming and dying over and over. The single best way to fix this, is to change the map to be bigger, this single change will fix the rep-farming issue without breaking ANYTHING. the problem? it requires quite a bit of work on DE's end, unless they can sort of.. kitbash existing tilesets temporarily, or just change the game-mode to something else temporarily till they're ready with the new fixed tileset.

 

I've made videos last week showcasing how you can easily get 10k rep (i average 10.5k rep per wave now) per wave (however since im not a major youtuber, the videos dont have the same amount of views/popularity as some of the other youtubers [im not complaining, im just pointing it out]), although i only posted the videos on reddit- im not much of a poster personally even though i read the forums daily. While i've done quite an extensive amount of rep-farming, the purpose of the videos posted (even though i've recieved negative pms from people on my YT page telling me in very colourful words why im an idiot for posting the video) was to explain how it works and possibly get it fixed. It may not be an exploit explicitly, but it still is not working as intended. Syndicates are not meant to be something you farm out in a day (i went from unranked to t4 for new loka in 6 hours yesterday), so you cant complain about DE wanting to fix something that undermines all the work and effort they put into the syndicates and trivializes it. 

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

viver is the only reason why i still even bother with syndicates. if its nerfed im done. il just buy the mods in a few weeks cheap

[KaynArgyr]

You can.

 

The single reason why viver is so good for rep farming is because it's a tiny map, and you can sit on ONE POINT and nuke EVERYTHING, since there isnt a spawn cap, the enemies just keep coming and dying over and over. The single best way to fix this, is to change the map to be bigger, this single change will fix the rep-farming issue without breaking ANYTHING. the problem? it requires quite a bit of work on DE's end, unless they can sort of.. kitbash existing tilesets temporarily, or just change the game-mode to something else temporarily till they're ready with the new fixed tileset.

 

I've made videos last week showcasing how you can easily get 10k rep (i average 10.5k rep per wave now) per wave (however since im not a major youtuber, the videos dont have the same amount of views/popularity as some of the other youtubers [im not complaining, im just pointing it out]), although i only posted the videos on reddit- im not much of a poster personally even though i read the forums daily. While i've done quite an extensive amount of rep-farming, the purpose of the videos posted (even though i've recieved negative pms from people on my YT page telling me in very colourful words why im an idiot for posting the video) was to explain how it works and possibly get it fixed. It may not be an exploit explicitly, but it still is not working as intended. Syndicates are not meant to be something you farm out in a day (i went from unranked to t4 for new loka in 6 hours yesterday), so you cant complain about DE wanting to fix something that undermines all the work and effort they put into the syndicates and trivializes it. 

 

Making the map larger though would make harder for people running interception normally to move from one tower to the other to support party members. Making it harder to run from a tower to another, with the use of obstacles, would make frustrating to run intercepts. As I said, it would punish the ones who use the exploit. 

 

By the way, while I respect the efforts and work DE had put into the Syndicates, this course of events shows some problem with their planning as too many people are resorting to the exploit. 

 

Beside, Viver is the less practical of the many options that are around to farm countless reputation.

[TotallyLagging]

Won't be 'nerfed', but 'fixed' in the sense that Eris is an infested planet and Corpus don't belong there.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love all sorts of powerlevel and all things that reduce grinding, and I really like Viver but on the other hand, this one's gotta be fixed.

[frozenballz]

Really? i do cerberus -which is a pretty large map- when im pugging and ive no issue reaching people from one side of the map to the other side. its not hard to copter, and if people cant copter they can still do the melee-airdash which can help traverse quickly. 

 

making the map larger is personally one of the best fixes for viver without nerfing/breaking anything else with the game mode, frames or other S#&$. 

[KIREEK]

The only thing that i find odd is that players have farmed and worked to get these warframes and mods (such as overextended, blind rage, fleeting expertise), we work "hard" to farm that location as efficiently as possible, that includes arcane coil helmet and even entropy on a weapon (magnetic AOE + gained energy).

We match ourselves with players of equal "skill" and mods to make a deadly coop combination.

We work as a team with somehow the best mods and gear available.

 

And in the end after all this work, DE is saying that we can't do it?

 

WHY NOT?

[HolidayPi3]

The only thing that i find odd is that players have farmed and worked to get these warframes and mods (such as overextended, blind rage, fleeting expertise), we work "hard" to farm that location as efficiently as possible, that includes arcane coil helmet and even entropy on a weapon (magnetic AOE + gained energy).

We match ourselves with players of equal "skill" and mods to make a deadly coop combination.

We work as a team with somehow the best mods and gear available.

 

And in the end after all this work, DE is saying that we can't do it?

 

WHY NOT?

This is a bit dramatic.

We're literally taking all our best gear, smashing it together, standing in one spot and 2424242424242424242424242424242424 ad infinitum. It doesn't take any skill. It doesn't take any effort. You're barely 'playing' at that point. You can do that on a mobile game.

I doubt it's DE's intention to reward pressing 242424244242424242424244242 for hours.

This isn't to say there aren't other problems-- The fact that people feel the need to turn to Viver at all and spam it for hours shows how awful rep gain is everywhere else. People would literally do something THAT boring over all the other 'fun' things in the game because rep gain everywhere else is virtually non-existent. Viver is the only place where people can say they've had any tangible rep gains for their time put in. This is only made worse by the fact that all of our rep disappears when we rank up.

 

And before anyone says "lol well its a long term goal," Yes, it is a long term goal. But long term goals are usually things that are done passively while chasing other goals. There are so few other goals right now.

Edited November 10, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[KaynArgyr]

Really? i do cerberus -which is a pretty large map- when im pugging and ive no issue reaching people from one side of the map to the other side. its not hard to copter, and if people cant copter they can still do the melee-airdash which can help traverse quickly. 

 

making the map larger is personally one of the best fixes for viver without nerfing/breaking anything else with the game mode, frames or other S#&$. 

 

What's the copter now? I'm familiar with the run-slide-jump-flying kick move to get faster but I don't even know how it's called. And frankly I feel it at sillyness levels similar to the jumping festival in UT when playing insta-gib.

 

If your answer is really 'you can do a silly moves combination to move faster', then I'd say I agree more with the using of the combo team. Because to me spamming a move is better than making my frame look ridicolous.

 

The only thing that i find odd is that players have farmed and worked to get these warframes and mods (such as overextended, blind rage, fleeting expertise), we work "hard" to farm that location as efficiently as possible, that includes arcane coil helmet and even entropy on a weapon (magnetic AOE + gained energy).

We match ourselves with players of equal "skill" and mods to make a deadly coop combination.

We work as a team with somehow the best mods and gear available.

 

And in the end after all this work, DE is saying that we can't do it?

 

WHY NOT?

 

So far DE have said nothing. It's just other players who thinks you're doing things wrong.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Branwyn

[KIREEK]

So far DE have said nothing. It's just other players who thinks you're doing things wrong.

 

oh. the old "players decide how other players should play" thingy.

[frozenballz]

The coptering is the method involved where you sprint-jump-crouch-melee to dash forward for a quick boost (works best with fast rof weapons). It was originally a glitch, but something DE found to be interesting and they basically decide to leave it in the game as a legit method of travelling afaik. sure, it may look silly to some, but tbh if you're choosing to not utilize it because it looks silly is your choice. it's still in game and can be used effectively to travel and support your party members. :/ 

[Farris]

"I don't want them to "nerf" X, better make a thread about it"

Also Balancing =/= Nerf (which pretty much every multiplayer community don't seem to grasp)

Edited November 10, 2014 by Farris

[SlapClown]

If you don't want to nerf something don't make a thread about it 

[KaynArgyr]

oh. the old "players decide how other players should play" thingy.

 

Something I totally disapprove of.

 

The coptering is the method involved where you sprint-jump-crouch-melee to dash forward for a quick boost (works best with fast rof weapons). It was originally a glitch, but something DE found to be interesting and they basically decide to leave it in the game as a legit method of travelling afaik. sure, it may look silly to some, but tbh if you're choosing to not utilize it because it looks silly is your choice. it's still in game and can be used effectively to travel and support your party members. :/ 

 

I can say the same by this point about how them are using their abilities and mods to improve their efficiency to these levels. It may sound cheap to some, but it's all stuff within the game and they're legitimately using their own abilities. If you choose to not use it, it's your choice and you shouldn't assume that the ones who use it looks down upon DE efforts. 

 

I'd rather reward them for their creativity and time spent learning the game system.

 

"I don't want them to "nerf" X, better make a thread about it"

Also Balancing =/= Nerf (which pretty much every multiplayer community don't seem to grasp)

 

"I don't want to 'nerf' X, quickly let's make a thread about how X is awesome!"

[frozenballz]

 

I can say the same by this point about how them are using their abilities and mods to improve their efficiency to these levels. It may sound cheap to some, but it's all stuff within the game and they're legitimately using their own abilities. If you choose to not use it, it's your choice and you shouldn't assume that the ones who use it looks down upon DE efforts. 

 

I'd rather reward them for their creativity and time spent learning the game system.

 

For the record im not saying it's a glitch, since it's not- I've farmed viver like crazy to max out 3 syndicates so far. It's utilizing what DE put in the game, even though it has ended up causing an unintended result (aka, going from unranked to max rank with a syndicate in one day if you put the time into it, since the only limiting factor is time in this situation). People asked for end game. While it's not really "true endgame", they added syndicates/sigils as a way to help prolong game-play and to give people a reason to continue playing/grinding, which is why i takes so long to farm for rep. DE will end up fixing viver at some point there is no doubt about it, the best hope we can have is that the fix doesnt end up nerfing the game mode, warframes or mods, since they're not the problem here- the tileset used for viver is. Fixing the problem with the tileset is simple- change the tileset or make it bigger. 

[Monolake]

Should start a petition for DE to create varied challenging missions for syndicates that give good amount of reputation. 

Forcing people to grind Vivier for 50 hrs or slowly gain ~2000 per day in syndicate alerts will only make everyone hate it.

[KaynArgyr]

For the record im not saying it's a glitch, since it's not- I've farmed viver like crazy to max out 3 syndicates so far. It's utilizing what DE put in the game, even though it has ended up causing an unintended result (aka, going from unranked to max rank with a syndicate in one day if you put the time into it, since the only limiting factor is time in this situation). People asked for end game. While it's not really "true endgame", they added syndicates/sigils as a way to help prolong game-play and to give people a reason to continue playing/grinding, which is why i takes so long to farm for rep. DE will end up fixing viver at some point there is no doubt about it, the best hope we can have is that the fix doesnt end up nerfing the game mode, warframes or mods, since they're not the problem here- the tileset used for viver is. Fixing the problem with the tileset is simple- change the tileset or make it bigger. 

 

I see your point, but I don't think Syndicates are 'endgame'.

 

I see more Syndicates as something which would accompany a player during his gaming life here on Warframe. Some of the latter offerings are, obviously, high end ones but generally you could do the first ranks while doing your early times in the game.

 

Doing the early Syndicate missions is a good way to get extra experience on low levels frames too.

 

But while this may be fun for newcoming players, you should understand that Veterans that are around since the beginning could find all these menial task boring and would just look for the top tier rewards. 

 

Had this happened months ago, I would have looked upon the weapons mods. Now, my choosen syndicate mod would make my main weapon only *slighty* better than my actual Dragon Nikana.

 

To me it's not endgame, it's just a pass-time with no real goal to achieve. To others is probably just a quick plat cow to milk as soon as possible before the other players will become able to grind their own mods.

[KaptainK3nny]

This is a bit dramatic.

We're literally taking all our best gear, smashing it together, standing in one spot and 2424242424242424242424242424242424 ad infinitum. It doesn't take any skill. It doesn't take any effort. You're barely 'playing' at that point. You can do that on a mobile game.

I doubt it's DE's intention to reward pressing 242424244242424242424244242 for hours.

This isn't to say there aren't other problems-- The fact that people feel the need to turn to Viver at all and spam it for hours shows how awful rep gain is everywhere else. People would literally do something THAT boring over all the other 'fun' things in the game because rep gain everywhere else is virtually non-existent. Viver is the only place where people can say they've had any tangible rep gains for their time put in. This is only made worse by the fact that all of our rep disappears when we rank up.

 

And before anyone says "lol well its a long term goal," Yes, it is a long term goal. But long term goals are usually things that are done passively while chasing other goals. There are so few other goals right now.

This is a bit dramatic.

We're literally taking all our best gear, smashing it together, standing in one spot and 2424242424242424242424242424242424 ad infinitum. It doesn't take any skill. It doesn't take any effort. You're barely 'playing' at that point. You can do that on a mobile game.

I doubt it's DE's intention to reward pressing 242424244242424242424244242 for hours.

This isn't to say there aren't other problems-- The fact that people feel the need to turn to Viver at all and spam it for hours shows how awful rep gain is everywhere else. People would literally do something THAT boring over all the other 'fun' things in the game because rep gain everywhere else is virtually non-existent. Viver is the only place where people can say they've had any tangible rep gains for their time put in. This is only made worse by the fact that all of our rep disappears when we rank up.

 

And before anyone says "lol well its a long term goal," Yes, it is a long term goal. But long term goals are usually things that are done passively while chasing other goals. There are so few other goals right now.

What about odd it's the same thing except one is harder which is viverr