Pvp Needs Higher Priority. It Is The Only Alternative To Grind Walls

[Tsukinoki]

No. I meant that PvP should at least get a balance patch. Last PvP change was in 14.7.0.

Could you add that to the OP and maybe edit the title of the thread then?

Just reading the title it seems like you want to put content behind a PvP wall, which would be a horrible thing to do.

[Guest]

No. I meant that PvP should at least get a balance patch. Last PvP change was in 14.7.0.

 

Well, when you say "alternative to grind walls" it's kinda confusing. I have nothing against giving people options, on the contrary. I don't like PvP myself, but that doesn't mean I think it should be removed. What I am fully against is being forced to play PvP or miss out on content.

 

And yes, I do hear PvP is quite broken, making it laughable, which is a shame.

 

If what you mean is that with a better PvP people will play the game more so there would be less need for time and grind walls, I can agree with that... except as long as the devs don't get money through PvP, I don't think it will have even the slightest impact.

[RoboDoge]

Problem with PvP is that DE cannot properly monetize it. Every piece of content that would be put behind PvP would create horrible uproar on Forums and we will have one of the biggest rage storms seen.

 

 

On the other hand, people that play PvP should be rewarded for doing that, as PvP is hilariously broken and you gotta have nerves of steel to play that. Some minor cosmetic items like Syndanas and Sigils would be fine.

[Halisi]

 Pvp does not need a higher priority because this is a cooperative game. It never ends well when you start with one side of the spectrum then try to do the other too, take global agenda by hi-rez studios for example (look it up). It was a pvp game that did the pvp really well but they tried to add pve into it aswell and failed miserably. Focus should always lean towards the games strong points and it's primary enemy type in this case pve. 

[Blakrana]

 Cool, you like PvP. That's great.

 

However, as some people have noted, Warframe is a PvE game primarily. And, again, these people have noted that the way you've worded your post seems to imply that content is put behind PvP instead of 'Grind Walls'. Which is...problematic.

 

Gating content behind PvP is, for some people, no better than the perceived 'Grind' as it stands in PvE. And it can actually be worse depending on how poorly balanced the PvP is. Personally, were I interested in PvP, I would play Team Fortress 2, Skullgirls, a local Halo match, a game of Magic or some other TCG there of. I'm here playing Warframe because of my general fascination with Sci-fi and the fact it is PvE. A lot of people are probably the same.

 

Improve PvP, sure. Make it balanced, fair and entirely optional to engage with. Don't however pretend that 'PvP locked content' would be any better than a 'Grind locked' PvE piece of content because frankly, the human capacity to be an arse is significantly greater than the amount of times a dice can roll 1 consecutively.

 

I can, with patience, over come the drop rate in any game I play and get the thing I'm after. It's worked on Monster hunter, it's worked on God Eater, it's worked on Phantasy Star P2, and so far it's working here.

 

I cannot, no matter how much patience I have, enjoy playing against an opponent capable of insulting me every second during a game. It's bad enough when I end up in Public Games that has someone constantly 'Nuking the room' as it's as boring as Party Political broadcasts. Being the target would just make me feel like doing something else where I have some actual autonomy. To be fair, yes, I play a lot of Solo/Friends only games for said enjoyment. Derelicts are fun at level 10 on a fresh Ember Prime, you know.

 

Keep it optional. Let the people who enjoy PvP enjoy their PvP. Let the people who enjoy their PvE enjoy their PvE.

 

Don't force a game mode on people who, if they wanted it, would likely be playing games catered to that style to begin with. Like I said above, if I want to play against a person, I have games/decks to go to. Warframe is one of my PvE games. It's always going to be that way.

 

Sure. There's perhaps ways to 'diminish' the grind, perhaps, however I'm not going to touch that with a barge pole as I'm not exactly the best critic of 'bad grind', as the above mentioned games probably highlight. Let someone else with far lower patience than me deal with it.

 

Just make that solution not be a compulsory PvP affair. I'm actually a little irritated that, barring the Cheater of Death and Cryptographer achievements (damn that resetting issue to the depths of Yi'kan...) I've only got the Dark Sectors one to attain before I'm literally only looking at Mastery Achievements to acquire. It's still, however, optional for me to go get it.

 

Options are great. Don't trigger an ironic 'fix' by forcing another kind of grind on folks, because even if it's less 'gated', if you don't enjoy it, it'll still be 'grindy' for those doing it for stuff.

 

Rule of perception.

No. I meant that PvP should at least get a balance patch. Last PvP change was in 14.7.0.

 

Excellent. Then I fully support your request and hope that the issue is addressed in due time.

 

Just be careful about how you word your posts in future, ok? I do apologise for the minor...rant? I personally wouldn't call it a rant, lacks in the way of poor grammar/emotional words but eh, whatever...

 

Good luck to you PvP folks.

 

Happy hunting.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Blakrana

[DJ_Redwire]

I think many would probably like and play PvP in Warframe if DE took the time to sit down and really balance and expand it. But seeing how that has gone in the past, I can't say I'm all that hopeful nor supportive.

A good place to start would be adding some simple, non-exclusive cosmetic rewards to get people engaged in playing PvP. More people playing means more feedback on ways to improve the system at large, hopefully evolving PvP to a much more sofisticated and fun state than where it is now.

[JakeRobber]

I don't mind PvP having more impact (in fact I prefer it), but the majority obviously does not like that idea, so I don't think it should happen that way.

 

However, if new PvP modes came about that were just for fun, not only would I support it, but I would have zero sympathy for the inevitable outcry from PvP haters.   

[-InV-igo95862]

Well, when you say "alternative to grind walls" it's kinda confusing. I have nothing against giving people options, on the contrary. I don't like PvP myself, but that doesn't mean I think it should be removed. What I am fully against is being forced to play PvP or miss out on content.

 

And yes, I do hear PvP is quite broken, making it laughable, which is a shame.

 

If what you mean is that with a better PvP people will play the game more so there would be less need for time and grind walls, I can agree with that... except as long as the devs don't get money through PvP, I don't think it will have even the slightest impact.

 

I mean if you put same amount of content in PvP and PvE, PvP content will last much longer

 

Imagine if Mesa's blueprint could be acquired in the first day of release. Everyone would have a Mesa in three days. There is no more content left. A grind wall was placed to make this content last longer.

 

A balance patch could be played for weeks or months.

 

As for monetization there is a lot of space for improvement in cosmetic items. Most of them outside of colors are extremely underwhelming. There should be more body parts cosmetics like current helmets. They are most noticeable.

[RoboDoge]

I mean if you put same amount of content in PvP and PvE, PvP content will last much longer

 

Imagine if Mesa's blueprint could be acquired in the first day of release. Everyone would have a Mesa in three days. There is no more content left. A grind wall was placed to make this content last longer.

 

A balance patch could be played for weeks or months.

 

As for monetization there is a lot of space for improvement in cosmetic items. Most of them outside of colors are extremely underwhelming. There should be more body parts cosmetics like current helmets. They are most noticeable.

Could be played by people that actually do PvP. Others would be just forced to play PvP, and majority of Warframe players come here because of PvE.

[havikryan]

as long as it doesn't take away more content from PVE or locks any behind PVP I'm fine with it being there...

[RedEyedRaven]

The sad thing is, PVP in Warframe has some potential. This potential though gets ruined by how balance between the current warframe/weapon-loadouts would work out.

 

Some Warframes would severely outperform/hardcounter others (even otherwise useful frames would just be nuked away), so with a random matchmaking like the current one we'd get a boatload of trouble. Balancing it out with conclave-ratings or other requirements isn't gonna work, banning certain weapons or Warframes is just a lame excuse rather than a solution, and well... players would forcefully need to go pre-made.

 

 

 

The only way I'd see PVP working in Warframe would be

 

1. Abilities cannot be used at all, mods are completely disabled in PVP-modes. In the beginning that is. Over the time Warframes could actually get specific and balanced sets of PVP-only abilities, so that the fun increases.

 

2. The selection of weapons is restricted to a specific PVP-set of weapons without modding-capabilities (and this set should be rather cheap to get, for like 100k credits, consisting of one shotgun, one rifle, one bladed melee, one blunt-melee, one set of throwing knives/stars, one pistol plus its akimbo-variant so we'd have the very basic variety of weapon-types).

Edited December 9, 2014 by RedEyedRaven

[-InV-igo95862]

and majority of Warframe players come here because of PvE.

 

PvE content plays out it self too fast. Once you acquire all weapons, all warframes there is nothing left to do...

[LX7_LORDXEN]

Fix and Balance PVP and give us a mode we can play in that doesn't affect PVP, throw in a couple exclusive rewards, as well as leaderboards sure could be fun.

[RoboDoge]

The sad thing is, PVP in Warframe has some potential. This potential though gets ruined by how balance between the current warframe/weapon-loadouts would work out.

 

Some Warframes would severely outperform/hardcounter others (even otherwise useful frames would just be nuked away), so with a random matchmaking like the current one we'd get a boatload of trouble. Balancing it out with conclave-ratings or other requirements isn't gonna work, banning certain weapons or Warframes is just a lame excuse rather than a solution, and well... players would forcefully need to go pre-made.

 

 

 

The only way I'd see PVP working in Warframe would be

 

1. Abilities cannot be used at all, mods are completely disabled in PVP-modes.

 

2. The selection of weapons is restricted to a specific PVP-set of weapons without modding-capabilities (and this set should be rather cheap to get, for like 100k credits, consisting of one shotgun, one rifle, one bladed melee, one blunt-melee, one set of throwing knives/stars, one pistol plus its akimbo-variant so we'd have the very basic variety of weapon-types).

Simplest solution would be to allow all frames with 4 powers that are same for all. Only difference would be base health, armor, speed and shields ( that would be also balanced and you would get frames as you build them in PvE ).

 

 

Add around 10 weapons of different types ( pistol, shotgun, rocket launcher, rifle, etc ) and preset their damage.

 

 

 

Monetizing PvP would be quite simple with this. Just sell skins for weapon ( Braton, Karak, Dera skins for rifles, Magnus, Vasto, Lex skins for pistols, etc ) and make those skins not affecting any stats. Give certain points for doing PvP ( not based on kills to keep community decent ) and reward players with cosmetics when they get enough points.

PvE content plays out it self too fast. Once you acquire all weapons, all warframes there is nothing left to do...

So we should be forced to play PvP?

[-InV-igo95862]

The sad thing is, PVP in Warframe has some potential. This potential though gets ruined by how balance between the current warframe/weapon-loadouts would work out.

 

Some Warframes would severely outperform/hardcounter others (even otherwise useful frames would just be nuked away), so with a random matchmaking like the current one we'd get a boatload of trouble. Balancing it out with conclave-ratings or other requirements isn't gonna work, banning certain weapons or Warframes is just a lame excuse rather than a solution, and well... players would forcefully need to go pre-made.

 

 

 

The only way I'd see PVP working in Warframe would be

 

1. Abilities cannot be used at all, mods are completely disabled in PVP-modes. In the beginning that is. Over the time Warframes could actually get specific and balanced sets of PVP-only abilities, so that the fun increases.

 

2. The selection of weapons is restricted to a specific PVP-set of weapons without modding-capabilities (and this set should be rather cheap to get, for like 100k credits, consisting of one shotgun, one rifle, one bladed melee, one blunt-melee, one set of throwing knives/stars, one pistol plus its akimbo-variant so we'd have the very basic variety of weapon-types).

 

Or make mods somewhat of items in dota-like games. You can purchase and upgrade mods for credits that you get for kills depending on situation in the match. Enemy got Incendiary Rounds - you get flame repellent

 

 

 

 ( that would be also balanced and you would get frames as you build them in PvE ).

 

 

 

 

My suggestion above also fixes this.

 

If mods in PvP would be separated from normal game it would make people less angry over balance changes as they don't need to spend forma for specific PvP build

Edited December 9, 2014 by igo95862

[RedEyedRaven]

Simplest solution would be to allow all frames with 4 powers that are same for all. Only difference would be base health, armor, speed and shields ( that would be also balanced and you would get frames as you build them in PvE ).

 

 

Add around 10 weapons of different types ( pistol, shotgun, rocket launcher, rifle, etc ) and preset their damage.

 

 

 

Monetizing PvP would be quite simple with this. Just sell skins for weapon ( Braton, Karak, Dera skins for rifles, Magnus, Vasto, Lex skins for pistols, etc ) and make those skins not affecting any stats. Give certain points for doing PvP ( not based on kills to keep community decent ) and reward players with cosmetics when they get enough points.

So we should be forced to play PvP?

 

 

I didn't say anything that would include forcing people to PVP. My idea was about abilities and the basic weapons for PVP only. Having PVP with Warframes could be fun after all - if done right.

The goal is to KEEP it optional but still good enough so people actually want to try and play it.

 

One set of abilities for all frames would be boring, but every frame could get a kit of like 2-4 abilities that are only available AND balanced for PVP.

Edited December 9, 2014 by RedEyedRaven

[DrMagoo111]

In terms of alternatives to the grind wall, why don't we have some content locked behind fun, challenging, and lore filled quest lines?  Actual quest lines, mind, not grind walls with Ordis' comments sprinkled between sequences of grinding.

[Kazzamo]

I'd be fine with them re-balancing PvP, what I do not want is PvP modes that effect PvE (looking at you dark sectors) or have content locked behind it aside from maybe a few cosmetic things. Honestly I think warframe PvP would of been perfect for arena style tournaments of tenno vs tenno for honor and sport with leader boards for teams and personal ranking. That fits so much more for them than alliances/clans going to war against each other for chunks of space.

[DrMagoo111]

I'd be fine with them re-balancing PvP, what I do not want is PvP modes that effect PvE (looking at you dark sectors) or have content locked behind it aside from maybe a few cosmetic things. Honestly I think warframe PvP would of been perfect for arena style tournaments of tenno vs tenno for honor and sport with leader boards for teams and personal ranking. That fits so much more for them than alliances/clans going to war against each other for chunks of space.

They should take a page out of Blade Symphony, for sure.  The idea of Tenno vs Tenno war does not make sense, really.  Tenno honor battles do, though, and they could have neat optional cosmetic awards for success in these reworked Conclaves.  Maybe even have legit arenas using the hub system, where other Tenno can spectate in larger numbers.

Edited December 9, 2014 by DrMagoo111

[RedEyedRaven]

I'd be fine with them re-balancing PvP, what I do not want is PvP modes that effect PvE (looking at you dark sectors) or have content locked behind it aside from maybe a few cosmetic things.

 

 

I'd say the only unlockable for doing PVP should be some specific sigils, so people can show off what they've achieved. That'd be totally enough and would not anger anyone who doesn't wish to play PVP.

 

Balance between Warframes would be the key. No mods, not the actual Warframe-abilities, not the actual weapons.

 

Instead, every Frame could have a kit of "dueling"-abilities. As these would have to be developed, DE would have a much easier time to balance them so no Frame gets useless or under-/overpowered. Players testing the PVP would be helpful to do so as well.

Instead of weapons every basic weapon-type (shotgun, sword, rifle, pistol etc.) would get only one "dueling"-version. No Sniper and no elemental weapons though (elemental damage and sniper-range could be something like traits to specific Warframes, ability-based and thus limited by energy).

 

[Eric1738]

i mean a lot of things need higher priority. maybe pvp is one of them, but the key problems about pvp imo are first good server/host, so no one lags, second, balance. i dont see DE using more servers in the near future and i have 0 confidence about DE's balance.

[Kazzamo]

It's the truest form of democracy, voting with your wallet. DE goes away from what the majority wants they lose players and they lose money. Appealing to the majority is what they do as a business and why we're getting Nova prime since she'll sell like hot cakes, also they have the numbers for PvP it's apparently not good with how much they're ignoring it's a thing at this point as well.

[RedEyedRaven]

if this was a PvP focused game I wouldn't even play it.

 

 

There's PVP in Warframe. More-so, Warframe would be really fun in both PVE and PVP for players who like both things. You don't like PVP, but not every player wants PVE only. But probably those who live only for PVP don't play Warframe.

You're right with DE having enough to do. That doesn't mean that they cannot follow up on balancing-ideas given on PVP. It's their decision, and players will continue to bring that up.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Thread cleaned of irrelevant responses.

Moved to a more appropriate subforum.

[SilentMobius]

I mean if you put same amount of content in PvP and PvE, PvP content will last much longer

 

Imagine if Mesa's blueprint could be acquired in the first day of release. Everyone would have a Mesa in three days. There is no more content left. A grind wall was placed to make this content last longer.

 

A balance patch could be played for weeks or months.

 

_Player created content_ lasts longer because players create the content.

 

PvP is just one small section of player created content. PvP simply leverages those who desire inter-personal conflict to act as content for other players who desire inter-personal conflict. Which encourages and validates an attitude geared toward conflict.

 

I'd much prefer DE work on player-created content in general to extend game life not narrow their focus into simple PvP.