Hypothesis: Tenno Are Cybernetic

[Spacetronaut]

If one of the Tenno armor types is Flesh, that means that Tenno are not fully robotic. However, Mutalist Alad V called his infested Warframe experiment his "Mutalist Warframe". As far as I know, the term "mutalist" is only used on robotic Infested (Infested MOAs, Ospreys). I believe this implies that the Tenno under the suits are cyborgs of some type. I doubt the suits alone can be infested unless it has a natural and NOT artificial nervous system of its own, which also implies that Warframes are living beings on their own. Tenno being cybernetic also closes the door on how they can "change form" to fit into different gender-styled Warframes. Thoughts?

[bejuizb]

I always assumed that Tenno had cybernetic augmentations, to combat the mutations created by the Void. 

[vaugahn]

I think that tenno are purely biological.

 

We know that the sentients can subvert technology, but not biological weapons or void stuff. Which means tenno are all biological and void stuff.

[Tsoe]

the only non biloogical part , lie in the Tenno spin i believe to link them to them Frame

[Archeyef]

Doesn't Lotus say, during the quest, that there isn't a Tenno in that Mesa suit? That it's being animated purely by the infestation?

 

Also, Mutalist, at least to me, is a strain of infestation that can also infest machines. That's how I interpret and understand it. Though I agree that I've yet to see Mutalist used to refer to a biological victim.

 

If he calls it his Mutalist Warframe, why can't it be purely artificial? The MOAs and Ospreys are, and as you said yourself, "Mutalist" has only even been used in conjunction with previously artificial enemies (whatever their state post-infection is).

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

I believe Tenno are energy beings. I remember Vor saying something to that effect in the "Vor's Prize" quest, and at the end of the Limbo quest, I think Ordis talked about wearing the Limbo frame. Infestation may make up parts of the suit though.

[vaugahn]

I believe Tenno are energy beings. I remember Vor saying something to that effect in the "Vor's Prize" quest, and at the end of the Limbo quest, I think Ordis talked about wearing the Limbo frame. Infestation may make up parts of the suit though.

 

That was a metaphor for the source of our powers.

 

There is something inside the suit. It is physical, not energy.

[Sloan441]

Matter = energy, if you want to get pendantic about it.

 

I don't believe the Tenno are energy beings. Not like Organians in Star Trek. They were human at one point.

 

They might very well be spiritual beings. Rhino Prime's codex entry seems to be hinting in this direction.

 

Clearly, what's going on isn't simple, but we don't know enough for any definitive statements.

[Clone154769]

You wear a warframe, a tool you slip your consciousness into.


Too much Neuromancer & Old Mans War for me.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

I kinda figured Tenno are mutants, touched by the void such that they have out of check powers constantly flowing out of them.  Like Cyclops of the X-men without his visor, sort of.  The frames focus this into specific forms/ways.

 

The only part that doesn't completely make sense is the apparent gender-swapping, but we're clearly flesh underneath the frame (our damage profile and susceptibility to poison, etc. shows this).  

 

Presumably, the gender-swap thing probably wasn't an issue in the past (since they started out with multiple genders per type, Nyx being fem-calibur, etc.), but the lore got murky after they cut costs/dev time in that fashion.  So, they just put a question mark on it after that.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Not really sure anymore. In a concept trailer, it showed the suit as an actual suit, with a helm that functions similar to Iron Man's mask. Revealing underneath a human face. However that was years ago. Now, looking at one of Frost's helms (Cooler Master brand, which cuts off half a head) I can't be sure that it works the same way as that trailer.

 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Mikovsky

[Spacetronaut]

Doesn't Lotus say, during the quest, that there isn't a Tenno in that Mesa suit? That it's being animated purely by the infestation?

 

Also, Mutalist, at least to me, is a strain of infestation that can also infest machines. That's how I interpret and understand it. Though I agree that I've yet to see Mutalist used to refer to a biological victim.

 

If he calls it his Mutalist Warframe, why can't it be purely artificial? The MOAs and Ospreys are, and as you said yourself, "Mutalist" has only even been used in conjunction with previously artificial enemies (whatever their state post-infection is).

I probably missed the Lotus quote because I was busy fighting the Mesa (which was a REALLY cool fight).Also, the only explanation for the MOAs and Ospreys I have is that all of the Corpus technology has always had an organic feeling to it. I think that they're heavily modified creatures or something, not quite robots. I'm probably in the wrong, though and I like your theory of a specifically powerful Infestation that maybe Mutalist Alad V created that can infect robotics.

Not really sure anymore. In a concept trailer, it showed the suit as an actual suit, with a helm that functions similar to Iron Man's mask. Revealing underneath a human face. However that was years ago. Now, looking at one of Frost's helms (Cooler Master brand, which cuts off half a head) I can't be sure that it works the same way as that trailer.

 

I really love how you found this ancient trailer! It's so cool to see that. Unfortunately it is pretty dated and it was also for a different game. I know DE styled Warframe off of Dark Sector, but I had no idea that they actually had a trailer of Hayden actually in a suit.

But anyways, this trailer has some holes in it that just make me think that Warframe is BASED off of it, but not related to it. However, I think Hayden might've been one of the original Tenno according to DE's lore (cannot confirm besides Hayden's name is "Hayden Tenno", which he might've named the new culture from).

[FATEdPondera]

I think Tenno are like Vorlon ships from Babylon 5. They're grown and customized instead of built. So, while not being mechanical creatures, their technocyte warframes and reinforced underlying bodies are significantly stronger than any robot the Corpus can build or augmentation Grineer can rig into their power armors.

[OniDax]

If one of the Tenno armor types is Flesh, that means that Tenno are not fully robotic. However, Mutalist Alad V called his infested Warframe experiment his "Mutalist Warframe". As far as I know, the term "mutalist" is only used on robotic Infested (Infested MOAs, Ospreys). I believe this implies that the Tenno under the suits are cyborgs of some type. I doubt the suits alone can be infested unless it has a natural and NOT artificial nervous system of its own, which also implies that Warframes are living beings on their own. Tenno being cybernetic also closes the door on how they can "change form" to fit into different gender-styled Warframes. Thoughts?

 

Well, the warframes are technology, so the term for Infested technology (not just robots) is Mutalist. But I think the Warframes are technocyte.

[Archeyef]

I did a little digging on Youtube and found the quote. It's probably on the wiki too, but I'm going through the steam overlay right now and steam currently doesn't like Wikia.

 

The quote is "That's not a Tenno. That's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by infested flesh. Put it out of it's misery."

[Rennagade]

But anyways, this trailer has some holes in it that just make me think that Warframe is BASED off of it, but not related to it. However, I think Hayden might've been one of the original Tenno according to DE's lore (cannot confirm besides Hayden's name is "Hayden Tenno", which he might've named the new culture from).

Went digging for this old thing.  Might prove a good read.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/closing-digital-extreme-s-psychic-wound/1100-4555/

 

Basically according to that, Dark Sector originally was designed to be something like Warframe.  It was abandoned when executives with money tried to throw it in different directions and became what we now know as Dark Sector.  Its a bit more than just based off of what you saw in that trailer- that trailer is tracing back to the game's roots. 

As for whether or not Hayden Tenno is actually a member of the Warframe universe and is not the prime example of "Tenno are actually humans within the warframes".  Also this shows that DE went back to the old concept while making warframe: http://www.digitalextremes.com/news/2012/05/blast-past

 

 

Anyway, pieces of lore and dialogue that suggest that there is a being called a Tenno within the warframes, as when talking about frames characters specifically say Warframe, and while talking about Tenno they specifically say Tenno.

Further evidence:

Bleeding- Tenno bleed.  Robots do not.

Poison- Tenno can be poisoned.  

Life suppport:  Tenno need air to survive- though this is a somewhat bad point as apparently life support can be turned off on Earth.

The New Loka:  This group is one that worships humanity.  While they do resort to using ancients as weapons in order to keep human soldiers out of harms way, they also say "Its not to late to cleanse yourself".  Why would they give a machine another chance?

Last(its late) I give you Cephalon Suda.  As an enemy of this syndicate, going to their tab gives you the following quote: "More Organic debris to ignore".  The tenno, at the very least are organic.  This doesn't mean that they aren't something non human or cyborgs, but the Tenno underneath are living beings rather than machines. 

[Adaptor-Face]

Also, Mutalist, at least to me, is a strain of infestation that can also infest machines. That's how I interpret and understand it. Though I agree that I've yet to see Mutalist used to refer to a biological victim.

 

Uhm, Alad V himself is refered to as Mutalist by the game, and he is not a robot is he?

[Fari]

During the quest line Alad said he was renaming all infested to Mutalist, cause he liked the name better than "Infested".

So it's not a specifically robotic thing.

I dunno, maybe tenno are partially mechanical, parts of the suit definitely is, as neural sensors (actually visible with one of valkyr's eyes) are a thing, but I personally don't believe the Tenno themselves are.

I guess there's no reason it couldn't be the case per say, besides from nothing suggesting it being the case.

Edited December 11, 2014 by NearoC

[Archeyef]

Uhm, Alad V himself is refered to as Mutalist by the game, and he is not a robot is he?

 

...Well now I just feel stupid. Though (to cover my own @$$...) I feel like I should point out the first part of that quote, where I said it was a strain of infestation that affect both organic and inorganic material, I totally did forget that part and now I look and feel stupid.

 

Whoops! My bad!

[sp33chle55]

Mutalist is alad v's virus strain.

And a warframe and the tenno inside of it are not the same, they are separate entities. We, the tenno, can move freely outside of frames like rhino primes codex entry tells us.

Also mirages and limbos quest supports this. As they tell you, you can die and the frame still is intact. And you can occupy another frame at will.

Its all in the game. Just read. No cybernetic, no energy matter conversion, no consciousness swapping.

Edited December 11, 2014 by sp33chle55

[Omnimorph]

Don't some of the Rescue missions have you rescuing WF-less Tenno?  In which case they're certainly humanoid, although they have helmet/mask things so we we don't know if they're hideous or whatever.

[sp33chle55]

Lotus refers to them as tenno operatives.

Its more likely they are some important human supporters. You know, like humans following a syndicate trying to support us.

The cryopods are containing tenno.

But the mesh for it is most likely outdated.

Edited December 11, 2014 by sp33chle55

[Blakrana]

A Warframe is, by and large, most likely a Cybernetic construct in some way, although I'm more inclined to say that it's approaching true Technorganics than Cybernetic. Between the Infested materials we require in a Warframe's construction, and the mechanical, it seems plausible that they're not Armour in the same way as we would understand it. There is actually technology in development now that has Neural interface to mechanical augmentations, as shown in the linked Ted talk. Well worth watching, especially in light of this discussion.

 

However...from there it gets tricky. Looking at Rhino Prime's Codex, the implication seems to be that a Warframe, or at least a Proto-Warframe, had autonomy. It was only when it neared the supposed Zariman children (I call it Zariman Proximity) in the 'cell/morgue' thing. Which led to a complete change in action, contrary to the prior behaviour of said Proto-Rhino. This leads me to suspect if the Zariman Proto-Tenno 'possessed' the Proto-Rhino as a suitable body. Which takes into a very interesting line of thought.

 

Personally, I'm of the view that a Warframe is a whole construct. It's a living machine in it's own right, and the reason why we're trying to void being shot to death; the Warframe bleeds, it breathes and by extension, it can die. This Technorganic body is inhabited by a Tenno, akin to how an Ego inhabits a Morph in Eclipse Phase; should the body die, the mind goes with it. I'm currently suspecting if it's possible the Zariman victims were 'decompiled' much like we do Capture Targets, for 'ease of storage' and significantly less evidence to hide.

 

Meaning that, if this is 'reduced to data/energy' were the case...the space you need to physically store such an 'essence' is significantly reduced. That 'cell/morgue' could have been a massive array of servers, containing...well...who knows how many 'souls'. We're never given an indication of how large the Zariman as a ship was, making it very plausible as to why the children had such an easy time hiding. A 'few' is relative to a value and we don't have that relative comparison.

 

When we take into account that the Orokin were not only incredibly advanced technologically, but on the genetic engineering level as well, it seems reasonable that the next step would be the union of these disciplines to a new, unclear form. The addition of the Void power Tenno possess, resulted in the Warframes and Tenno being far greater than the sum of their parts.

 

Of course, this is just a theory, and I'm keeping it short as I discuss it more thoroughly here. It's a long read, but if you're interested in what I've said, I'm sure that's no problem.

 

Also, a small bit of 'argumentative jerkery', and I apologise:

 

If the Rescue Targets and Cryopod Users are actually Tenno, it would be very easy for DE to simply say 'yes, those are what Tenno look like'. The fact that they have not stated as such and it is only for people to make the assumption these are Tenno, lends weight to the argument that they're just civilians. The Rescue targets are perhaps agents of the Lotus, whilst the Cryopod targets could simply be civilians from the Orokin Era who used the Cryopods, especially in the Void and Derelicts, as a sort of 'escape'. Risk of death was high enough that they hid. There's been no account to imply that Cryopods are only possible to be used by a Tenno, so far as I'm aware; if it has, please, cite and link me the source.

 

It's entirely possible I'm mistaken. Theory crafting entertains me, so nothing wrong with being proven wrong eventually.

 

End of the day, the concreteness of our theories are only as good as we can draw reasonable conclusions from the evidence provided.

[Omnimorph]

I remember a s-f story (sadly can't remember author or title) where you had organic matter (e.g. a fruit) re-programming the brain.  Cyber-apples, or something.  Actually organic matter (i.e. not silicon-based), but computerized (by analogy with "weaponized").

 

Maybe that's the idea with the tech we're using - part-organic/part machine, but not in the "cybernetic" sense we're used to from the things like Neuromancer etc.

[Spacetronaut]

Went digging for this old thing.  Might prove a good read.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/closing-digital-extreme-s-psychic-wound/1100-4555/

 

Basically according to that, Dark Sector originally was designed to be something like Warframe.  It was abandoned when executives with money tried to throw it in different directions and became what we now know as Dark Sector.  Its a bit more than just based off of what you saw in that trailer- that trailer is tracing back to the game's roots. 

As for whether or not Hayden Tenno is actually a member of the Warframe universe and is not the prime example of "Tenno are actually humans within the warframes".  Also this shows that DE went back to the old concept while making warframe: http://www.digitalextremes.com/news/2012/05/blast-past

 

 

Anyway, pieces of lore and dialogue that suggest that there is a being called a Tenno within the warframes, as when talking about frames characters specifically say Warframe, and while talking about Tenno they specifically say Tenno.

Further evidence:

Bleeding- Tenno bleed.  Robots do not.

Poison- Tenno can be poisoned.  

Life suppport:  Tenno need air to survive- though this is a somewhat bad point as apparently life support can be turned off on Earth.

The New Loka:  This group is one that worships humanity.  While they do resort to using ancients as weapons in order to keep human soldiers out of harms way, they also say "Its not to late to cleanse yourself".  Why would they give a machine another chance?

Last(its late) I give you Cephalon Suda.  As an enemy of this syndicate, going to their tab gives you the following quote: "More Organic debris to ignore".  The tenno, at the very least are organic.  This doesn't mean that they aren't something non human or cyborgs, but the Tenno underneath are living beings rather than machines.

I partially agree with the "bleeding" theory. However, cybernetic organisms are just that: organisms. They have robotic parts, but are or were ultimately living natural beings. The Grineer bleed but they're humans that modify the majority of their bodies with technology. The same applies with poison; they have organs and bloodstreams that they still need to survive. Oxygen: some Grineer might be able to modify themselves with oxygen supplies, but our 'Frames are lightweight and an oxygen supply that we carry around would be bulky.

When the New Loka say "It's not too late to cleanse yourself", pay attention to the wording. "Not too late" implies that the Tenno underneath are already modified artificially in some way. The same applies to using "cleanse yourself" rather than using something like "save yourself" to mean that your Tenno is innocent and unmodified but can be in the future.

I am not saying they're machines. I completely agree with Tenno being organic somehow under the 'Frame.

I'd analyze your videos but I'm not able to look at them right now so I'll give you those for now. >:c