What Would Inspire You To Fight Harder For This Event?

[Sapphirya]

What did end up happening to the people on the relay when it blew up? Instadeath/revive at ship?

Hek announced over the screens that he would show the Tenno how insignificant they were, then he ordered the Fomorian commander to fire, a charging sound played, then a cutscene started that involved the relay getting wrecked with a bunch of Tenno ships fleeing the explosion, then we all spawned back in our Lisets.

[Ishteen]

People, keep the morality of letting a virtual game space in a virtual game get destroyed out of this thread. You want to wail at how dirty, corrupt, and hateful the playerbase is, do it somewhere else. (If it's even true to begin with. People have other obligations during the holiday season, and like so many have pointed out before me, not everybody is rocking a fully geared and modded archwing or even enjoys the mode.) I assume OP is meaning to have a serious discussion about mechanics here, not about how everybody is an a-hole because Strata blew up.

 

With that said:

• Rewards. Running the mission for nary a mod or resource in sight is a bit of a letdown. Unless you take the time to actually kill all the mobs guarding the Fomorian, you're only liable to get out with about 1K in credits and a smidgin of affinity. Some other sweetener for successfully completing the mission would be fantastic - or, give us a reason to destroy the Fomorian's wingmen. Perhaps an increased drop chance for goodies?
• Completion tracking. If you happen to take one for the team and go down after the core blows up (which is entirely possible, as some of the Grineer enemies can tether you and reduce your boost speed), your squadmates will get credit for the mission - but not you. Of course, this can be seen as a particularly cruel way to get you to go for another run, but more often than not it leaves a rather bad taste in one's mouth. Get rid of the "must be alive to receive rewards" requirement, and there will likely be a lot more goodwill felt towards this event.
• Feeling of agency. As several have noted before, the Fomorian sabotage feels disconnected even from itself. There are no signs of damage, for instance, when players dart in to do the deed at 10% as opposed to 80%; similarly, it's not entirely explained how the same Fomorian can still be sitting pretty despite having had dozens of Tenno squads move in to demolish its core. Though implementing this - in the form of Grineer supply shuttles, optional objectives before the squad reaches the ship, and so on - are likely too complex to implement at this point in time, even something as simple as damaged plating or exposed hull would at least indicate to players that they are doing something.

 

[RugerMK1]

Potatoes. It deserves to be said again. Those blue or golden potatoes as an incentive.

[zuraja]

What would get me to do more than the bare minimum to get the mods and gun in the hopes that Archwing 2.0 will actually be fun?

 

1:  An incentive to repeat the mission that isn't downright insulting.  Seriously 50k credits for pounding my head into a wall in order to hit a million points on a Fomorian?  When I could spend 20 minutes doing DSDs to get the same amount of cash, a pile of Syndicate standing, and possibly some useful/valuable mods?  Yeah no thanks.

 

2:  Reusable disruptors.  I actually like excavation (and am trying to get a Gemini Cross so have an extra reason to be doing them) and the farming for this event is already getting old.  Plus the fact that Nanospores requirement makes them directly compete with the restores we need for high level defense and survival missions for materials.  And the fact that if there's no active Fomorian in a hub with excavation missions it will take twice as long to get what we need to make one.

 

3:  And finally, the most important one, an event mission that is actually fun.  The actual mission we grind to unlock is a long, miserable slog through swarms of hitscan aimbots that are either so far away that they're near-indistinct dots off in the distance or are up close and personal with such a high angular velocity that it's not worth even trying to shoot them, just mash E and let the melee autotargeting do the work for you, followed by 20 seconds of shoot the big immobile glowing thing.

[Jeetza]

I'm simply playing each Fomorian once to get a point for the event and that's it.

I personally don't care if the Relays get destroyed. I would help Vay Hek if I could, honestly.

Lets start a Vey Hek support group.

[Chroia]

The question doesn't specifically talk about tangible rewards.

I honestly hadn't thought of that until reading others' posts.

And on that account, 1 Tellurium/run would not be amiss.

Just did 8 waves of Earth Interception. ~700 kills total. 1 Neurodes, 1 Tellurium.

-_-

 

But the answer I was going to give:

There are a few things missing for the loss of the Strata Relay to bother me:

* A sense of... familiarity, perhaps even ownership.

Think back to any MMO you've played.

Remember that one hub city you spent the majority of your non-questing time kicking around in?

Now imagine that as a special ingame event, you had to defend this place from destruction.

" D: ! "

This place is, comfortable, familiar... It is, as it were... Home.

 

The Relays don't have that.

They're too new.

They're identical.

There's no player 'ownership' of them yet. They're game spaces, but very few have had any experiences tied to them.

And even for those who do: have I mentioned? Identical.

'Oh no! We lost the Earth Relay!'

1) 'Oh no! ... Which one was that, again?'

2) 'Meh, there are 12 others. Who cares?'

 

 

I mean, I'm certain that the various developers at DE are highly invested in these (e.g. I forget the phrase that Steve used a couple Devstreams back, but he referred to them as, idk, fulfilling a dream of his or somesuch).

They're theirs. They've spent time, effort, possibly emotion on these Relays. The proverbial 'blood sweat and tears'.

The players I don't have that attachment.

 

=====

 

Beyond that, there is a distinct lack of feedback on player effort.

It's rather like Rail conflicts (though possibly someone aside from DE does have access to that information, idk).

One of the reasons I don't bother with DSC anymore:

I devoted an entire day's gaming time to DSCs, trying to oust one alliance from one node, and to support two other ones in different nodes.

I must have run 40+ missions, idk.

And nothing, anywhere gave me any indication of my contribution towards the final goal.

And, on top of that? Won some matches, lost other matches.

Lost every single 'war'.

Which did a very effective job of driving home to me the futility of the attempt, and the waste of my effort.

Fomorians? Same deal.

Run 40 missions to try and save Strata.

A) The only feedback you get about your effort is if you sit and squint at the Fomorian's health, you might have done enough to shift its health a few percent.

And there's no guarantee that that was your contribution, and not other players'.

B) You're fighting alone at a goal intended for a large group.

Let me know how that works out for you.

 

-----

 

What would inspire me to fight harder?

Some thoughts:

* Give each Relay personality. Their own unique touches.

(Anything to make them noticeably different from each other, but preferably something with substance.)

 

* Some kind of 'key-return' mechanic, e.g. a scripted resource reward: 1 Omega Isotope + 75 Cryotic for every 250k damage done. (This lets you cover the cost of your key if you hit the designated mark. Favors better geared players, of course. Can't think of how to avoid that; beyond making committing a Disruptor against a Fomorian equal a free pass against that one Fomorian).

I like Excavation. But there are very few planets that allow you to double-dip farming Cryotic and Omega Isotopes. (And Earth's no longer under threat... lol.)

But I dislike having to do... well, anything. Even Excavation, which I otherwise enjoy a lot.

* Guaranteed Tellurium.

 

* Significant Exp rewards. Archwing gear is painfully slow to level, the Pluto Fomorian is surprisingly hard... and for some reason I'm under the impression that there's another, higher tier, waiting.

This would (have) let people who haven't played Archwing before both get their feet wet, and give them a helping hand in getting started.

Won't work, at this point, due to there being no low-level Formorian.

 

 

How's that for a start?

Edited December 22, 2014 by Chroia

[Matt_328]

Nothing because all rewards would be archwing related and i don't like archwing.

[Llyssa]

One mechanic I'm thinking of, reading these feedbacks, is an alternative, traditional-style mission. Pop in, attack the core, get out.

 

The difference would be that it would contribute against a second, independent bar: The speed.

 

AW would still be the bread-and-butter, the ONLY way to *kill* the fomorians, but the optional runs would allow players to damage the speed, thus lowering the speed, and extending the time we have to take out the main part.

 

Other possible(from vague lore) versions: Deception missions on standard galleons--we apparently can't get in to the fomorian(those shields), but if we were able to drive galleons in front of the fomorian, that would buy us time while they move it/kill it(whatever it is grineer would do in that scenario). Obviously not a lot, but if players could contribute, it would help.

 

It would need some rewards too, but the AW one needs *better* rewards. Also, of course, attacking the galleons would give omega. This would allow players to actively fight the things while gathering resources to attack it head on, and give some better sense of accomplishment in the whole.

[Salenstormwing]

It's not that I'll "fight harder" to a mission as much as it's near impossible to survive if you get injured by a swarm of 20 guys when you spawn in.

 

In a normal ground mission, you may have 10 or so enemies in an area, but that's okay because they're doing stuff like taking cover, some might be flanking, and there's an assortment of 20-ish warframes with various powers that can help mitigate some of them to make an overwhelming force into something managable. Oh, and sentinels/pets with powers to help recharge your shield or hide you or help you kill nearby targets.

 

In an Archwing mission, you have 3 'wings with various powers that can slightly different powers that can help mitigate a few enemies but mods are so damn hard to come by in Archwing without a lot of variety. Also, the enemies don't really hide, or give you a chance to take cover (outside of Sabotage Archwing missions) because it's SPACE that's almost fully open, except for a few big rocks.

 

If we were doing a Sabotage version of the Event, where we were in trench runs, you wouldn't have 20+ enemies shooting at you when you join someone's game in progress. Cover helps keep it tense but allows you to restore your shields at the very least.

 

But no, what you get is just "Hey guys, I'm her---- And now I'm dead." And then they abort because... why try doing the event when you can just start a new one? Or better yet, go do something else that isn't Archwing, or if you want to do something Archwing, you go do some sabotage missions because the baddies don't insta-nuke you with huge numbers. This shouldn't be Return of the Jedi, this should be the original Star Wars. At least in Return of the Jedi, there were multiple big-ships and large numbers of fighters on each side. This is like... "Hey guys, there's a huge force of 50 to 1 enemy units you're fighting against. Try to go fast, because if you stop to fight, you're going to die. Hope you got that gold mod that gives your thrusters extra speed. You don't? SUX 2 B U!"

 

But that's just my thoughts.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

If only people with MR10 were allowed to participate, because it's us Veterans carrying the newbies and the noobs,

Edited December 22, 2014 by Mikovsky

[fatpig84]

If the next Formorians start pumping out forma and potatoes, you bet people will run it down quickly.

[KaynArgyr]

If only people with MR10 were allowed to participate, because it's us Veterans carrying the newbies and the noobs,

 

Ironic...

 

I have seen plenty of rank 3 and 4 doing around 1.5kk at the end of the mission while the rank 14+ went down oneshot even before taking down the shields.

 

My general experience, may be wrong but that's what I saw, is that higher rank people never bothered too much to learn the Way of Archwings since they focused on ranking up weaponry and farming in the Void. Players who spent more time on Archwings are lower in MR, because it's slower to raise them, but that time is turned into training experience.

 

Don't relate MR with actual gaming skill, it would make you look bad as a Veteran.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Ironic...

 

I have seen plenty of rank 3 and 4 doing around 1.5kk at the end of the mission while the rank 14+ went down oneshot even before taking down the shields.

 

My general experience, may be wrong but that's what I saw, is that higher rank people never bothered too much to learn the Way of Archwings since they focused on ranking up weaponry and farming in the Void. Players who spent more time on Archwings are lower in MR, because it's slower to raise them, but that time is turned into training experience.

 

Don't relate MR with actual gaming skill, it would make you look bad as a Veteran.

I've seen the complete opposite, and I've had enough of their crap.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Mikovsky

[KaynArgyr]

I've seen the complete opposite.

 

Happens, guess all the good gamers were with me trying to save Strata while you got the fickle masses that came around Saturn?

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Happens, guess all the good gamers were with me trying to save Strata while you got the fickle masses that came around Saturn?

Every single relay with pubs and low MR, they ether use the Disruptor before we get in position, or they fly around outside like flies while I'm waiting for them to get inside.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Mikovsky

[nemarsde]

I doubt anything would make me grind this particular event, mainly because I think Archwing is rubbish. A good idea at its core, but rubbish implementation.

 

Perhaps if we were fighting for an event rather than a non-event?

 

That's why I logged in specifically to attend the Strata destruction party. I was able to witness an event. Strata relay gets blown up. Huh, drama, I am entertained.

 

The alternative prospect is to waste valuable Christmas holiday grinding, and at the end what happens? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We perhaps get a congratulations message in our inbox in January? No thanks, I'd rather take the little cut-scene and big Hollywood explosion.

[KaynArgyr]

Every single relay with pubs and low MR, they ether use the Disruptor before we get in position, or they fly around outside like flies while I'm waiting for them to get inside.

 

Must have been a really bad luck then, feels like you got upon you the anger of RNGesus when it comes to meeting people.

[Thrymm]

Bans, a lot of bans for the opportunists that let the Earth Relay fall so they could blackmail DE upon keeping doing so until the rewards gets boosted.

I agree.  Bans.  Bans for everyone on the forum that suggests that players should get this level of punitive action for disliking an event.

 

But seriously though, off of stupid ideas and on to stuff that might actually work:

 

Increase normal Archwing mod drops for these missions.  Lots of folks, myself included, have stated that we haven't even finished leveling the first one yet.  Doing the Pluto one a few minutes ago showed me how undergeared I am--I had to revive twice to get out of a web and attempted to kill and elite and couldn't even dent it.  I don't even have the options for elemental builds that would be effective yet.  Still finished the run, but the undergearing was obvious.

 

More affinity.  I've got a booster running, was halfway through level 25 when I started these, and just hit 26.  Not that it matters, I can't use the points anyway--see first suggestion.

 

More credits.  The mission isn't even a break even.

 

A detailed explanation of what is planned for the hubs.  "We might give them diversity" isn't enough.  What are we REALLY losing when one goes down?

 

All this ignores stuff like selectively choosing your least favorite frame to run them with simply because it has the revives you won't use elsewhere, the lack of overall polish on the gametype, the lack of archwing variety, and all the other completely not done archwing stuff that should be done in hindsight long before we try something like this.

[Radford_343]

Giving me a reason to care about the Relays, would be a good step.  Followed by a reusable Disruptor.

 

I ran 500 missions for the Grineer during the Gradivus Dilemma.  Being rewarded during or immediately after a mission is not a concern for me if I have something worth fighting for; something I want to protect.  There is nobody and nothing that I feel I need to protect on the Relays.  The Syndicates don't live on the Relays, those are just representatives.  Civilians?  You mean those faceless people in skin-tight suits?  They don't look like they're panicking to me.  They don't look like anything to me, just scenery.  

 

Show me the brutalities of war, and how it affects the weak and powerless.  Show me how terrified they are, watching the timer tick down to zero.  Show me how they scurry to the evacuation ships, fleeing for their lives.  Show me their faith in the Tenno, how they believe the Tenno will stop Hek.  Show me their despair, their broken morale, when they saw the Tenno fail.  Show me their visages troubled by doubt, the cracks in their faith.  Make me feel like I have to protect these people.  Because right now, I feel precisely nothing towards them.

 

Oh, and having to farm isotopes for every Disruptor used kinda takes the wind out of my sails, too.

 

QFT.

[MartianJellyfish]

What would inspire more effort from you?

 

A better point scoring system that isn't based on the damage you can pull off. The current one is the worst thing I've seen in an event since Breeding Grounds, and BG was that bad. I don't care if people are coming and saying they got over 9,000,000 points in a single mission, I just can't get 1M no matter what I do or who I play with and it's frustrating me to the point I don't care any more. I'll just get my Imperator Vandal for novelty and be done with this.

[holdenagincourt]

People don't have to "care" about the relays. They just have to get something they value for completing the community objective, which is reducing each Fomorian's health to zero before the timer runs out.

 

It's not even an issue with Archwing vs. normal gameplay, because I am willing to venture that a large number of non-Archwing players would hold their nose and grind Archwing if the reward for reaching a certain score on a given Fomorian were an Orokin Catalyst. In fact, most of the angst here would be about how the Fomorians are dying too quickly and there's no chance to do the mission because it's over in an hour.

 

People don't have to be forced to "care" about relays, nor do they have to "care" about Archwing. They just need to desire the reward dangled in front of them enough; that will make them jump through any hoops.

[Radford_343]

People don't have to "care" about the relays. They just have to get something they value for completing the community objective, which is reducing each Fomorian's health to zero before the timer runs out.

 

It's not even an issue with Archwing vs. normal gameplay, because I am willing to venture that a large number of non-Archwing players would hold their nose and grind Archwing if the reward for reaching a certain score on a given Fomorian were an Orokin Catalyst. In fact, most of the angst here would be about how the Fomorians are dying too quickly and there's no chance to do the mission because it's over in an hour.

 

People don't have to be forced to "care" about relays, nor do they have to "care" about Archwing. They just need to desire the reward dangled in front of them enough; that will make them jump through any hoops.

 

Most players are acting the way we have been "trained" to do by the game since the beginning; as mercenaries with no agenda besides own profit. Yes there are exceptions to this, as there always is.

[(XBOX)O4K51]

Money talks

[Cubewano]

Better rewards.

[Nerevar22g]

only thing that would make me think of playing the event is if it wasnt archwing, i dont like it, all my stuff is super low level and i dont care