An Open Letter To Steve Regarding The Creative Direction Of Warframe

[rockscl]

I would love if DE can suggest what they plan for next end of year without spoiling any surprise, they seems to love giving hype and surprise and they do both things decently

[Aspari]

What I'm about to say is somewhat unrelated to the categories in the OP:

 

I feel like DE should have stuck with everything that made up Dark Sector. Dark Sector never lost its atmosphere. It lost its novelty after a while, sure, but everything from the colors to the appearance of the buildings to the mutation that was taking over Hayden Tenno's body immersed the player in its fictional universe. Speed time centuries later (I don't know the actual amount of time between Dark Sector and Warframe) and the game would have been just like the original Dark Sector concept cinematic. That one cinematic was so much more (personally) compelling to me than everything DE has done thus far with Warframe put together.

 

So, onto those categories from the OP:

 

Atmosphere - The Survivor theme that "old Warframe" had was very satisfying and it made a lot of sense if one had played Dark Sector. DE did confirm that Dark Sector and Warframe are canon to each other (I don't remember which dev stream it was) and there are a lot of story elements that are either ignored or missing from Warframe after it transitioned from Survivor to Warrior God Profiteer. Even though Dark Sector is canon, there's such a big disconnect between them.

 

Enemies - Gameplay contradicts the Elite so it seems like no matter what faction you're up against it's always horde. I personally think it should vary depending on the faction with Grineer being the Elite, Corpus being more like the "Orokin Ordained" Elite, and the Infested being the Horde. Grineer would have a lot of trouble being Elite due to them being clones that have degraded to the point where body parts and organs have to be replaced by technology. There's no telling how much overall brain degradation was suffered over time, but that was probably fixed with neural implants.

 

The Frames - This would be a lot easier for me to say my piece on it if I didn't already experience Warframe powers. I like a mix between Ghost and Soldier because if we were still on the Outcast/Survivor part we'd naturally be doing guerrilla warfare, choosing when to engage and when to stay hidden. The original Dark Sector cinematic showed exactly what I'm talking about because in that video Hayden had to chose when to engage and when to stay hidden. It was very similar to a Batman Arkham series game. Now, because this is a co-op game, how Frames fight should also depend on the mission they're on. I'm not referring to the game modes we have already because I personally think every single one of them is far too arcade-esque and bare bones. Those aren't missions either. They're more similar to Mario Party.

 

Weapon Balance - No comment. I am absolutely terrible when talking about this.

 

Movement - I'd like to add Ninja Gaiden Movement to the list you have. Wall Running is there when you need it and during confrontation you're not freerunning/ ninja sprinting and vaulting. All aspects of mobility have their specific places. (Now I wanna play Ninja Gaiden Sigma again.)

 

 

I really love this post. The only negative here is that it got me thinking (again) if I really want to continue supporting something I used to like but not anymore. DE has almost 500 dollars of revenue from me with the things I've bought for this game including Master Founder status, but if I'm not going to like what's to come then I have to move on. No use to continue playing something I'm no longer enjoying. ?

 

 

The only reason I still play this game is because I find Nekros visually appealing and I like to come up with ways to make every confrontation between me and the enemy look like a fight between an agile marksman assassin versus the oppressors of the galaxy.

 

It's unlikely Steve or any other DE member even cares

No, they definitely care. They just can't comment without choosing their words accurately and precisely. Whenever an employee posts in these forums it's like a government official making a speech.

[Janzer]

When you say "the community thinks this", you are only projecting your own desires upon everyone else.

 

The community's posts mean nothing.

 

Most of the time they are only petty whining threads about whatever aspect of the game happens to frustrate by chance on a single occasion.

 

Commoners know nothing and only care about their own petty wants and fancies, otherwise they would be the ones making a game, not the developers.

 

 

The whole purpose of this thread was to highlight that people have strong opinions on what they want Warframe to be, and that all of those opinions are wrong.

 

Soooo....you're trolling the community or what?

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

Soooo....you're trolling the community or what?

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one confused by that post. Seriously op...wtf?

[vaugahn]

In agreement with (XB1)Skode, less camp and a more serious tone for the more serious subject matter (of Tenno dismembering scores of enemies) can also go along way towards making the content, features, and gameplay feel more unified and, again, make more sense as a holistic game.

 

Highly disagree. I think one of the things that made Warframe cool to begin with is that it doesn't take itself entirely too seriously. At the risk of sounding cliche, serious has been done. One of the things that personally attracted me to Warframe was the art design, and how it didn't go for the traditional "serious" action game design tropes. Like Mag, who's short and has a ridiculous faceplate/gasmask/whatever, or the Grineer, who skip over the "jagged dark grey" asthetic that's popular for villains right now, and instead have these lumpy organic designs in shades of green and yellow. Serious is all well and good, but we shouldn't be taking ourselves too seriously. I think the current balance of serious to not serious is more than acceptable. 

 

@ OP: whether you like it or not, many people have decided that "old Warframe" was a certain thing, and "new Warframe" isn't that thing anymore. It's far from correct, but it doesn't stop people from feeling that way. And unfortunately, this thread is now about that.

[DesecratedPoop]

Soooo....you're trolling the community or what?

 

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one confused by that post. Seriously op...wtf?

Don't care about the community's personal opinions. Never intended for the community to answer my questions. This thread was supposed to be directed towards DE_Steve only. I only wanted other people to point out if I missed anything in the OP, or sign it like a petition.

[TheVeiledScion]

If you want DE_Steve to address or respond, you should tweet him directly.

[AlphaHorseman]

If you want DE_Steve to address or respond, you should tweet him directly.

That works too.

[OniDax]

I just love how a guy with 29 posts makes a thread saying the community's opinions are wrong and then begins to try to explain how his opinions (the answers to his questions) are right... For me, the issue is that DE doesn't seem to have one clear focus or direction, and I say that because different elements in the game (new frames, new events, new weapons, etc) don't follow a common theme or direction, there is little lore to tie things together, new content seems to negate certain lore, boss reworks aren't doing anything to push the game towards completion, etc. So these questions the OP has posed are good because they are things DE needs to consider. It doesn't hurt for the community to offer suggestions (not talking about complaints), especially when there doesn't seem to be much of a theme, direction, or focus for all the elements of this game. So, on second thought, no, this thread doesn't need any dev attention, because it's purpose is to be nothing more than a meta-complaint thread, and therefore needs to be locked.

[StevesEvilTwin]

I just love how a guy with 29 posts makes a thread saying the community's opinions are wrong and then begins to try to explain how his opinions (the answers to his questions) are right... For me, the issue is that DE doesn't seem to have one clear focus or direction, and I say that because different elements in the game (new frames, new events, new weapons, etc) don't follow a common theme or direction, there is little lore to tie things together, new content seems to negate certain lore, boss reworks aren't doing anything to push the game towards completion, etc. So these questions the OP has posed are good because they are things DE needs to consider. It doesn't hurt for the community to offer suggestions (not talking about complaints), especially when there doesn't seem to be much of a theme, direction, or focus for all the elements of this game. So, on second thought, no, this thread doesn't need any dev attention, because it's purpose is to be nothing more than a meta-complaint thread, and therefore needs to be locked.

Just because the OP is a $&*^ doesn't make his points any less valid. There are lots of good points in the OP that I think the devs really did never think to consider themselves. Look at all of the unfinished systems in the game: Mods 2.0, Mastery, Dark Sectors, PvP, Melee 2.0, Stealth, Ammo, Parkour, Focus, Archwing, Kubrows, the UI, Quests, the Void, the freaking Star Chart itself!, the Void Trader, the Syndicate system that you so deseperately want to branch off into essentially 6 separate games. Some of these systems have been like this for years, what could be the cause of this other than an overwhelming amount of indecision coming from the devs themselves. They want to add so much to this game, that they're afraid of finishing anything for fear that it might lock them out of something in the future. I think the devs really do need to start cutting their losses and try to focus Warframe into a sharply defined end goal if they want to succeed. Sure, some people might leave if the game ends up going in a direction they don't like, but the benefit of being able to focus development due to a more tightly-knit community, would benefit the game much more as a whole I think. And finally, if DE doesn't listen, then I guess we as the community are going to have to keep showing them what to do (and bickering because everyone has a different destiny for Warframe in their minds).

[MDRLOz]

 

This thread is pre-livestream 44 and hadn't had a new post for a month and a half.

 

Most of the points this thread point out are listed to be improved this year.

 

Though I do agree that the points from the OP need to be addressed it would be better in separate topics on individual issues rather that bringing back this multi-angle attack thread.

 

So instead find or make newer threads that are more relevant to what you need.

Edited February 19, 2015 by MDRLOz

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

This is possibly one of the best and most relevent topics I've found on this forums. You have said everything I was unable to, and better than I could have ever said it.

I really want the dark, small faction fighting a big war kinda atmosphere. I want to feel the power of a Warframe, the deadly finesse of ninjutsu.

[InoxMaximus]

Wow very good topic at all. Let me choose.

 

1. This is a good way to introduce a story line of your played Tenno to choose. All 3 should be playable.

2. Both. We need this gametyps that goes with Horde mode and Elite mode.

3. Another way to choose a part to be like. This gives us more individuality.

4. B and C.

5. I choose A but B is an alternative option.

Edited February 19, 2015 by InoxMaximus

[Verdha603]

This is simply my two cents on the matter, though I do enjoy how well thought out the OP was.

 

1. Atmosphere: Outcast/survivor is good for the introduction, but afterwards I'd say allow all three options to be used and have it depend simply on how the player wants to play it. If they want to run things by themselves and survive, go ahead. If they want to make money and kill stuff to do that, go ahead. If they want to play the Tenno-in-shining-armor coming to people's rescue, then go ahead. Honestly I like to think the way I play is a mix of the three, where I'm the survivor that's trying to get through the next day and do what good I can by helping my fellow Tenno while killing the enemy, while getting money on the side to further my goals as a survivor and guardian (because suffice to say, no matter how good you are, mods don't upgrade themselves for free you know).

 

2. Enemies: Surprisingly I'd actually like to see a mixture of both. Use the weak hordes at early-game, as well as a good way to catch Tenno off guard after dealing with elites later in the game, while making sure that elite troops are either in positions of leadership or forming "Tenno-killer teams" to try and defeat you. Another suggestion IMO is also try a Shadows of Mordor style of play, where if they can get the coding or programming in, have enemies that survive a battle against you, or even better, kill you in game, grow stronger through knowing how you fight, and the more times you let them live on the map or planet they're on, the stronger and nastier that survivor will get.

 

3. Frames: Honestly I'm not a big fan of the Gods concept. Sure, the Tenno are strong and powerful, but not enough for me to say they should be put on a god-like status. Ghosts is fun, but its best applicable to at most two or three Frames, while the rest have different flavors of play that they discourage stealth play. Personally I love the soldiers concept, with maybe some of the God concept thrown on top while maintaining stealth gameplay as having advantages in multiple situations. To fight alone is to be deadly, but combined with partners to form a team that can work together and build off of their individual strengths and weaknesses, then I'd say the Tenno have attained god-like status.

 

4. Tiered, with the ability to spend in game currency to upgrade weapons up to higher tier levels to maintain relevancy.

 

5. Honestly a mixture of parkour and freerunning sounds good. Maybe a good tradeoff is that while you have energy (or whatever you use up while you're sprinting or performing acrobatic maneuvers) you are able to parkour, but after that energy is drained you change to freerunning. Or maybe even be willing to make a trade off and resort to freerunning so that your energy can be used elsewhere.

[StevesEvilTwin]

I have written a thread addressing some of the issues listed in the OP here

[ThePresident777]

All of this was answered 2 years ago in DE's PlayWarframe youtube channel.  People should really spend some time looking at those early videos.

 

This is Warframe:

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4:

The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one.

 

 

http://youtu.be/TLwWAB9kFcQ?t=1m34s :

Switch Teleport has been around for a long time.  It was originally on our testing warframe.  And I remember, ah, like back, around March, and like the weird things that you could do with it.  We kept getting QA bugs for it which are like "oh you can use switch teleport on another player and you should fix that, you should switch teleport in this way."  And our philosophy with the game and with the powers is not to hold down and kinda constrain everything because what we really want is like expressive play, for them to figure out how to use a power in a way that even Scott as a designer didn't even imagine it could be used.  .....................................

 

There was also a statement about not having to explain everything to players and the players exploring the game themselves.  But, I don't feel like looking for it right now.

[izzatuw]

I just don't feel "immersion" or the atmosphere if there is any in WF to begin with :/

It just doesn't seem like a game where you can just take in the air and check out the digital clips.

[Aspari]

I just don't feel "immersion" or the atmosphere if there is any in WF to begin with :/

It just doesn't seem like a game where you can just take in the air and check out the digital clips.

Sadly nothing DE has done lately has contributed to immersion. The plots of the events have been very weak and lore doesn't matter from a gameplay perspective. 

[Monolake]

I really dont see a point of this thread, no one will come out and tell you any more than they already do on devstreams.

Community is so diverse and mostly clueless, everyone has different views and wants different things, community cant be in charge of direction.

 

Would be great if DE paid more attention to feedback from veteran players who know the game though.

[Marthrym]

1. Do I REALLY need to say it? OBVIOUSLY B. We're not guardians (were we ever? We don't "remember" unfortunately. Hey Stalker! Enlighten us for a change! Lotus won't apparently...), anyone still believing that is either delusional.

Sorry but you really have to be naïve to still think the Tenno aren't anything more than "War wh0res". We SELL ourselves to two warring factions, with ZERO hesitation or scruple, any ideal or "honor" (most useless/pointless man-made concept ever...) went out the airlock a looooong time ago. We're just a bunch of mercs with no morals. Hek! We even fight EACH OTHERS now! what does that tell you? Where is the "Tenno cause and unity"?

Personally all I care about now are my mates, clan, and alliance. The "Tenno cause" can go hang itself for all I care. I don't even know what it is supposed to be anymore anyways. What is the Lotus doing? Isn't "she" supposed to be our guiding light?... *sigh* And I really miss the darker tone/atmosphere we used to have.

 

2. A. They throw legions of enemies at us, we kill everything, rinse and repeat. Until scaling goes bonkers of course. Then the enemies are the "gods" (aka Nullifiers) and we're just Kubrow puppy chow.

 

3. None of them. Used to be A (still is until scaling kicks our @sses). Not B, not anymore at least, every faction seems to know MORE about us than WE do for Lotus' sake! Once awake (ahah puns), we were never really "ghosts", shadows, or even "ninjas". And I can't say we're soldiers. Soldiers fight for a cause. Good or bad. The Grineer are soldiers for instance. But US? We are mercenaries. Warmongers. We thrive in conflict. That's why all we do is make sure the scale never tips in favor of anyone. "Balance" is the ultimate smoke screen, it's only there to justify US and enable us to do our stuff : kill anything that even looks at us in a way we don't like. We just make sure the war goes on forever. Because war is what we ARE. without "it", there is no "us". Maybe we used to be "better", maybe we used to have a "cause", a purpose. But again, we don't remember, and no one seems in a hurry to tell us (LORE PLOX).

 

4. Weapon balance? It's all over the place, but going nowhere at the same time. Because it has to "scale, but not scale" at the same time. A good chunk of the missions is leveled, while the part where most of the good stuff is is built around endless scaling. How do you balance anything around that? Make TWO separate charts maybe, like for PvE and PvP. Otherwise weapons, abilities, frames, enemies, etc, will never be "balanced" for everything the game offers. There will always be "OP" or "UP" stuff.

 

5. A. We're "space ninjas mercs", not "Altaïr/Ezio/whatever". I don't think a "realistic" parkour can work in WarGUNS. We'd get rekt lol. Also copter fanboys would be all over the place... No offense, I like coptering! Even though it looks very clunky...

 

That's my personal take on those "questions". Emphasis on PERSONAL. Just to be as clear as possible. I know others think differently, and even if I said "you'd have to be naïve to think we're good guys or guardians", I respect that way of seeing things, and I even wish I could see it too to be frank. But I really don't...^^'

Edited February 26, 2015 by Marthrym

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

This is so true, 

 

This game turned to farming simulator, where all you do is farm to get better gear and when you get that gear it just makes it easier to farm for more gear.

[StevesEvilTwin]

Give that discussions regarding the general direction (or rather lack thereof) of Warframe have come up, I think that this thread has shown its relevance again.

[Qynchou]

lighting on most tilesets identical to how it was around U7-9

Disargee with this part. It isnt.

 

Its better quality, but it isnt darker, or providing a dark atmosphere in any case.

[Aizeol]

Bump

[Monster-T]

Sadly nothing DE has done lately has contributed to immersion. The plots of the events have been very weak and lore doesn't matter from a gameplay perspective. 

Ahm... nothing? Sure? Afaik our Lisets are for immersion only - and they were implemented lately.