bl4ckhunter Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I've had so many good arguements in that other thread. But people won't bother going through all those pages to read them! You're the perfect example of your own accusation. i didn't insult anyone to my notice and i didn't accuse you of nothing, i feel that arguments really don't even matter as the matter rests on de and i seriously doubt they intend to address the matter at all, at least not in this ice age, specially given that consistency has never been one of de's specialities and matter of fact they've always been pretty slow to address obivious problems like cold mods(now fixed but still it took 2 years to change an handful of values), shotguns, daggers and the likes, whatever they decide to do i wouldn't expect it to happen any time soon. no founders asked for a volt style buff. what i've see is more of a rhino prime, loki prime buff. something that doesn't differentiate too much. it's those arguing against it that are blowing it up as if founders are asking for 900 armor, 1200 health and infinite energy well if you look at it stuff's been escalating out of hand pretty fast, that's why i still think that primes having highter base stats shouldn't be a thing at all, it started with rhino having 0.1 more speed (oh the outcry that happened back then when people still thought rhino was op) and it eneded up with volt having 100 more energy and 85 more armor, now base volt sucks, but that doesn't mean they should buff only the prime and leave it in the dust, it is as i said a bandaid to sell a prime access for a frame in a poor condition, i don't think anyone would give a damn about excal prime having 20 more energy just as nobody cared when the rumor than excal prime had faster shield regen was around, actually it was never denied nor confirmed by de, the main reason i'm against gìving excal prime a stat buff is that i dont want a future hydroid prime to come with 600 more armor and 800 energy, base rhino has the same rights of rhino prime to move at a decent speed and volt is still in need of a buff, prime frames shouldn't have advantages over the base ones aside from the void orb perks period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Sorry Founders, but I'm gonna have to say no. For the sake of not dividing the community if it ever were to happen. I'll take the salt if it means we all can be as one. I can respect this. I disagree, but I can still respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfScrugging Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 i didn't insult anyone to my notice and i didn't accuse you of nothing, i feel that arguments really don't even matter as the matter rests on de and i seriously doubt they intend to address the matter at all, at least not in this ice age, specially given that consistency has never been one of de's specialities and matter of fact they've always been pretty slow to address obivious problems like cold mods(now fixed but still it took 2 years to change an handful of values), shotguns, daggers and the likes, whatever they decide to do i wouldn't expect it to happen any time soon. well if you look at it stuff's been escalating out of hand pretty fast, that's why i still think that primes having highter base stats shouldn't be a thing at all, it started with rhino having 0.1 more speed (oh the outcry that happened back then when people still thought rhino was op) and it eneded up with volt having 100 more energy and 85 more armor, now base volt sucks, but that doesn't mean they should buff only the prime and leave it in the dust, it is as i said a bandaid to sell a prime access for a frame in a poor condition, i don't think anyone would give a damn about excal prime having 20 more energy just as nobody cared when the rumor than excal prime had faster shield regen was around, actually it was never denied nor confirmed by de, the main reason i'm against gìving excal prime a stat buff is that i dont want a future hydroid prime to come with 600 more armor and 800 energy, base rhino has the same rights of rhino prime to move at a decent speed and volt is still in need of a buff, prime frames shouldn't have advantages over the base ones aside from the void orb perks period. that would be the case if DE didn't change how primes would be defined. before with excal, frost and mag, they were solely cosmetic (although they had nearly no differences cosmeticly aside from the helm. but with the current trend, i hope the old primes can be buffed while new ones aren't too absurd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4ckhunter Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 that would be the case if DE didn't change how primes would be defined. before with excal, frost and mag, they were solely cosmetic (although they had nearly no differences cosmeticly aside from the helm. but with the current trend, i hope the old primes can be buffed while new ones aren't too absurd In my ignorance of game programming i would be lead to think that giving a small stat buff to excal frost and mag when rhino prime came around wouldn't have been a big task if they wanted to do it, however the reasons behind devenlopers's actions and their selective complete failure to see the obivious without being told and sometimes ignoring it even after that are misterious and unknowable to the normal player, i can name ONE time where i have seen a comprensible, if maybe unethical, response to the queries about a feature being is a sorry state and it was from a small dev studio, about what de intends to do with future and past prime frames we are in the dark in my opinion, one can only wonder if THEY are in the dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosferagon Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) The only thing i don't get is the people who say that the founders stuff and the prime access stuff are pay to win. What exactly do you win? what advange do you get above other players that makes the game so much easier for you? you get shiny cosmetic stuff for crying out loud. Excal prime is exactly the same as regular excal with the sole exception that he looks different. oh and he has an extra forma slapped on. big whoop. same with the lato and skana. and Prime Access is even more ridiculous. other than some specific cosmetics you can get everything else in-game, for free. finally, for those who still think this is pay 2 win - you can have all the frames and weapons in the world. show me how you'll play the game without its core - mods - which you get for free by playing the game. Edited June 12, 2015 by Lone.Hunter.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul62626 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Sorry to break it to you, but non-Founders are in DC now. Oh didn't know, Thanks, well either way i don't see the problem with keeping all the primes on the same page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Oh didn't know, Thanks, well either way i don't see the problem with keeping all the primes on the same page I am in full agreement. It's a Prime, it gets Prime treatment. Availability doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfScrugging Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) one thing that i've seen as a complaint is that by buffing excal prime, it will render all other excal's useless. everyone will ask for excal primes instead of excals. to counter this, how many excal prime's do you think exist? i'd say probably 1/3 of founders have quit, maybe even more than that. for people to request an excal prime, they'd most likely be waiting for a while since there is literally so little of them around, that you'd be better off getting a regular excal Edited June 13, 2015 by LordOfScrugging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotrap Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 k so we've gotten to the point where people are writing LONG and IMPASSIONED ESSAYS on why they think Excal Prime should or should not get a MINOR PASSIVE BUFF THAT WILL LIKELY HAVE NO MEANINGFUL EFFECT ON GAMEPLAY. It's not actually that big of a deal, you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CataReverb Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I'd say do it, but also drop a prisma excalibur skin into the trader's bank and a DEXcalibur on the market next anniversary that have the same stat boosts, also you can use the skin on the excalibur prime, but get the stat boost only once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I'd say do it, but also drop a prisma excalibur skin into the trader's bank and a DEXcalibur on the market next anniversary that have the same stat boosts, also you can use the skin on the excalibur prime, but get the stat boost only once. Why not just put the stat boosts on the Prisma or Proto Excal skin and not release a third 'frame? k so we've gotten to the point where people are writing LONG and IMPASSIONED ESSAYS on why they think Excal Prime should or should not get a MINOR PASSIVE BUFF THAT WILL LIKELY HAVE NO MEANINGFUL EFFECT ON GAMEPLAY. It's not actually that big of a deal, you guys. This is the internet, every thing is a big deal! We must make our opinions known! It's important! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CataReverb Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Why not just put the stat boosts on the Prisma or Proto Excal skin and not release a third 'frame? I know I'm the only one but I really want a purple lotus excalibur with the name "DEXcalibur" one anniversary. I'll take any and every opportunity to lobby for it that I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 [DE]xcalibur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I know I'm the only one but I really want a purple lotus excalibur with the name "DEXcalibur" one anniversary. I'll take any and every opportunity to lobby for it that I can Why not a Dex skin instead? It doesn't require another slot to have and you don't have to spend extra forma/potato to make it viable. Just slap it on your already done Excal and have a celebratory genocide of the Grinner and or Corpus. I'm sorry but I just don't see, from a lore stand point, having a 3rd Excal unless we're going to have the same for all other 'frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhokdelar Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 k so we've gotten to the point where people are writing LONG and IMPASSIONED ESSAYS on why they think Excal Prime should or should not get a MINOR PASSIVE BUFF THAT WILL LIKELY HAVE NO MEANINGFUL EFFECT ON GAMEPLAY. It's not actually that big of a deal, you guys. Hahahaha.... I agree the small buff would not mean anything. Like 2% health will do much :x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viedra_Lavinova Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Honestly, I think they should buff him, but everyone else is too selfish to let it happen. This is like saying after a couple years of Windows 10 coming out, Microsoft rewards the people who installed it within the first 6 months as thanks for being loyal, helping debug problems, and such. Just because you don't have access to it doesn't mean you should punish the people who do. (Espcecially for selfish reason, which is a lot of the population unfortunately.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster-T Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Honestly, I think they should buff him, but everyone else is too selfish to let it happen. If you say say that everyone is selfish who dont want a buff then you should really read the whole thread, because you have obviously no idea about some intentions. Edited June 14, 2015 by Monster-T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) They'll probably buff him anyway with the Excal buff coming this week. They buffed Ember Prime over Ember statwise with the last Ember buff (so they're willing to create disconnect in older content in the name of a suffix), and buffed both Snipetrons with the last sniper update while keeping Vandal stronger (so the fact that they're exclusive doesn't matter - and since everyone who has Snipetron Vandal was given a Snipetron blueprint, retaining the disconnect was purely preferential on the devs' part). I can't see any reason to disincline them from giving Excal Prime a small armor or shield buff over its un-Primed counterpart. Of the players who don't have him, who would it hurt? Edited June 14, 2015 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) No matter what happens, it will never end. If DE buffs Excalibur Prime to the other Primes' level (which already is a freaking mess, with clear inequity and favouritism, which is never good), the Non Founders will scream murder, which if you put yourself in their shoes is understandable. If they don't buff him, then it's the exact same scenario, except with all those in favor of a buff will go ballistic, which once again, is understandable really. I have no idea how the devs can get out of this nightmare without hurting their baby. And that's what should have us all worried. Instead, we're all here, throwing thinly veiled insults at each others, using moronic arguments more than anything, caring only about ourselves. How about we put our brain matter to work on a solution to help DE (and ourselves) instead, hmm?^^' Edited June 14, 2015 by Marthrym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelisImpurrator Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 No matter what happens, it will never end. If DE buffs Excalibur Prime to the other Primes' level (which already is a freaking mess, with clear inequity and favouritism, which is never good), the Non Founders will scream murder, which if you put yourself in their shoes is understandable. If they don't buff him, then it's the exact same scenario, except with all those in favor of a buff will go ballistic, which once again, is understandable really. I have no idea how the devs can get out of this nightmare without hurting their baby. And that's what should have us all worried. Instead, we're all here, throwing thinly veiled insults at each others, using moronic arguments more than anything, caring only about ourselves. How about we put our brain matter to work on a solution to help DE (and ourselves) instead, hmm?^^' I did. In another one of these threads. Now, I'll just dig it up to make things a little easier on everyone. All right, here we go. Just to collate all this into a single process with several different approaches. 1. Buff Excal Prime and all the old primes to be in line with the new ones (possibly including those with older, weaker buffs; I would prefer having all buffs more or less on the same level). 2. Give Proto Excal the same buff as Excal Prime, not stacking with Excal Prime's default - it's probably not an additive buff anyway, but a "set stats to xyz" replacement, so it shouldn't give any conflict. 3. Several options. 3a. Make Proto Excal available year-round. Doesn't solve the plat issue. 3b. Make it a Baro item and refund the plat to those who purchased him. 3c. Release some sort of Prisma/alternate farmed skin that does the same thing as Proto and find a way to not wreck the lore. 3d. As with 3c, but with equivalents for other frames like what's being discussed above. My issue here is that they might need to rethink the whole structure of Prime Warframes, because overbuffing skins makes prime farming pointless and overbuffing primes makes skin buffing pointless. 3e. Don't release any alternative at all and just keep telling people to deal. Salt intensifies. Forums S#&$ themselves with rage. Founders get more hate. Almost certainly not a realistic option because it's not a solution. 3f. ??? 4. Stop caring about the people who complain about Excal Prime just because Excal Prime, because a valid statistical alternative exists and so they don't matter. You're never going to shut everyone up anyway. Even if they rereleased Excal/Skana/Lato into the drop tables tomorrow people would move to complaints that primes have buffs or something. 5. Profit. Note that buffing the first primes is a baseline. Whichever option is taken, I would very much prefer that to be the first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayden_Tenno Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I did. In another one of these threads. Now, I'll just dig it up to make things a little easier on everyone. pretty much what he said. I love excalibur and i mostly main it. I have not played so much lately cuz excal was pretty much useless for the rest of the people and almost nobody wants an excal in raid or some t4 or stuff like it. if they are going to make a better excal just for founders, im getting out of this game, im not gonna wait for them to repair it again. I know nobody will miss me and i dont care, but if they give some type of favoritism to founders, im outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGs_Knackie Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Makin Excal Prime in line with other frame is something that must happen But Makin Proto eXcal in line with Primes would be a great idea from Le Digital Entertainment as much as i want to keep Excal Prime eXclusive , i dont see any reason for not having an alternative for ppl who missed the chance to get it GOD THANKS! People who has purchased him should obtain something in order to be rewarded, it seems to be logic & in this way people could have him again. I'd like upgrade my Founder count at least Hunter, why not Master. :/ Edited June 17, 2015 by CGs_Knackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopSpeed Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 no faster shield re-gen ! is existed dont change the name ! i think a boost in armor is nice like ember and nova and volt have more armor in there prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LustyLost-EN- Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 pretty much what he said. I love excalibur and i mostly main it. I have not played so much lately cuz excal was pretty much useless for the rest of the people and almost nobody wants an excal in raid or some t4 or stuff like it. if they are going to make a better excal just for founders, im getting out of this game, im not gonna wait for them to repair it again. I know nobody will miss me and i dont care, but if they give some type of favoritism to founders, im outta here. If buffing Excalibur Prime, a warframe we(founders) have will make you quit the game aren't you a little too selfish? Just because you don't have it we can't get a buff? Then by that logic Snipetron and the Snipetron Vandal should be completely s*** cause I don't have it. I don't see people crying because some other warframe gets a buff, but the moment excalibur prime is gettting one everybody flips out. What do you gain from watching founder items rot in our arsenal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayden_Tenno Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If buffing Excalibur Prime, a warframe we(founders) have will make you quit the game aren't you a little too selfish? Just because you don't have it we can't get a buff? Then by that logic Snipetron and the Snipetron Vandal should be completely s*** cause I don't have it. I don't see people crying because some other warframe gets a buff, but the moment excalibur prime is gettting one everybody flips out. What do you gain from watching founder items rot in our arsenal? im not saying that 0 buff for excal prime, im saying that DE should keep vanilla excal and excalP on the same level, regardless the buff. You dont have snipetron and snipetron vandal cuz you didnt played when it was achievable, people dont have excal P cuz they didnt have the money to buy it. You get it? money? buy better stuff than what most people has? thats the deffinition of p2w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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