Nekros: Changes Coming For 15.12

[Brenshi]

Right after I got rid of my Nekros. Great.

[immolator1001]

The problem is really that most frames have some stat range (mirage), power (Loki), duration (Mag), that they can allow to suffer and still be viable meaning they can effectively use corrupted mods.

 

Now Nekros needs duration (for terrify and Sotd), power for everything but desecrate, and range for desecrate and terrify.

[-Time-]

And this already feels like a double edged sword, but how would you guys like refilling SoTD with Desecrate?

[-TSA-voodoo]

All it needs to enhance the "sometimes boring" gameplay of necros is Team kills - or at least kills by the shadows themself - should be kills for the next shadows cast.

 

Necros is busy staying back. desecrating and rezing teammates. 

 

Id really like him to be able to send his minions in from behind his team. Not shooting stuff up front all the time.

Edited January 29, 2015 by voodoo-EGT-

[fatpig84]

[zavienh5]

aw yea

[Llyssa]

...I'm wondering if more people don't take advantage of murdering heavies for the SotD? SP+Terrify gives you an armor-stripped, downed target ripe for the plucking. Don't like the idea of having my choice of what I get to bring back taken from me.

[PsychoticMarik]

...I'm wondering if more people don't take advantage of murdering heavies for the SotD? SP+Terrify gives you an armor-stripped, downed target ripe for the plucking. Don't like the idea of having my choice of what I get to bring back taken from me.

The problem here is how much work you have to put in just to make a hand picked army.

You have to avoid killing anything that you dont want, and you have to make sure you're the one who killed the thing you do want.

Then when you finally summon your badass army of power units they die off in the next 30-72 secs. I believe those are the numbers at least.

Its simply not worth all the effort. Not even close. Not to mention that even tho you can do the SP + Terrify combo you mentioned you have to expend the skills and energy to do it. All for an ult that isnt gonna deliver.

 

You did kinda give me a thought about being able to mark targets for your soul catche by using SP on them tho. Like say you SP some heavy, and it marks them so that when killed no matter who killed them they get added to your soul catche, but then that still presents the issue of fodder enemies being added as you kill them, so I dunno how you'd go about fixing that.

 

Just thinking out loud really.

[Ailith]

- Adding the ability for players to walk through Shadows of the Dead clones.

Also of note: dev-experiments are ongoing for bullets to be able to go through Shadows of the Dead Clones.

It'd be cool if the clones were made of smoke so that when players walk or shoot through them, the smoke is temporarily dispersed, then reforms after a second or so. Walking through clones would completely disrupt figures and shooting through them would make dynamicly-placed-and-sized bullet holes (based on aim and projectile size/speed?).

 

Dunno if the game can handle something like that (maybe with PhysX?), but it'd be a pretty unique and interesting effect.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Ailith

[Archwizard]

Eh necros will still play the exact same way with these changes, was hoping some of the powers would get full rework or changes.

Hey that's not true! People will less use des...

 

I mean, they won't...

 

...Yeah... ('-')

Meanwhile people will still use desekros nekros pretty much only for desecrate.

Was anyone else truly hoping that desecrate change was coming?

 

I mean, yeah it's good for looting and all, but I feel that we could see Nekros truly as a playable frame if he didn't actually have a job in farming or Survivals, so anyone playing him would be playing it as per their choice, not because of a job

And Nekros will still only use Desecrate...

It's good changes overall, but... nobody got time for other skills, aside from 3.

Desecrate needs to change. Tying a warframe to a game mode such that Nekros becomes a must have WF on it is not good from any point of view.

 

If anyone is telling me, dude, spawn rates are broken so we need desecrate... well the answer lies in that very sentence. The problem is in spawn rates and should not be solved by giving a warframe a power indispensable in a game mode.

 

Please tell me playing an entire game where you have to do nothing but press 3 while your teammates are killing everything is fun for every nekros player! Please tell me that's true and I will stop talking at once.

Desecrate

I don't know why the most controversial power in his toolkit isn't being looked at.  As of right now, Desecrate is the reason why people request Nekros on a team.  I don't have an issue with that exactly, but I do have an issue with having to spend almost an entire match repeatedly hitting the same button.  If DE wants to move away from the macros and the mindless playing, they need to change Desecrate. 

Still won't use nekros for anything else than desecrate.

And yet Nekros will still be a Desecrate machine.

3 will still be pressed. nothing will change. 

For Desecrate;

 

* All of WF players include "me" using nekros for only desecrate's loot potential. 

id just argue he needs some mechanical change also to Desecrate... 3 spamming is a thing

I'd like Desecrate mashkeyfest to be addressed though.

He's still going to be a Desecrate-bot. 

What is the purpose of this change when it changes literally nothing to the inherit core problem of this frame?

Desecrate isn't bad like how you're using bad. It's bad because it ruins Nekros as a frame by reducing him to a single gimmick, and generally ruins the fun of anyone playing Nekros.

the one thing that needed to be changed about Nekros - Desecrate  is being left untouched !!!

 

 

i just don't under stand DE why is people having to macro the nekros  as a desecrate machine a good thing?! 

 

when i'm on nekros i Literately press 3 1000s of times !!! that needs to be changed that above all else  

 

Meanwhile, the opposite side of the argument -

 

Reading more, the main argument against nekros seems to be "WHY DOESN'T NEKROS PLAY EXACTLY LIKE NOVA?"

 

Yeah. Sure.

 

The argument to remove Desecrate has nothing to do with turning Nekros into a damage frame - give him another support power and we'll be happy. Strip the loot and O2 functions and we'll be happy.

 

We just want to play something that isn't another part-time job.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Archwizard

[Ailith]

I'm not really sure where you're getting this impression personally.

Nekros is my most played frame, and I still hate Desecrate. I dont really mind tossing it around in between fighting, but its just flat out bad design.

 

Creating a character in a game that gives more rolls on loot drops, and on top of that having to spam the power as part of that process is just embarassing. Its not fun, and its certainly not creative. Even as a toggle of some kind I'd still find this to be a total waste of an ability.

A game shouldnt feel the need to have a character incerted for almost the sole puprose of helping people get drops they want. Its just lazy and uniteresting.

 

DE has a fun game on their hands, but they seem to have some really questionable ideas and execution.

 

I'd really love to see desecrate changed into something else, and as I've posted before not just changes to desecrate but an overall rework of the entire frame's mechanics. If he's suppose to be anything like a necromancer the way his name implies he should certainly be designed around the idea. Instead of just tacking on an underwhelming form of the idea onto a single ability.

 

I do appreciate the buffs tho. Despite how small, and overall underwhelming they are.

Instead of Desecrate only being used to rob graves, what about allowing it to defile corpses? Nekros already enslaves souls, so why not also give him the ability to turn bodies into something akin to proximity mines? They could deal damage, cripple enemies, and/or apply a DoT. Maybe they could even act like Swarm Moas, debuffing enemies while buffing allies.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

My 50 cents:

 

1) Any single-target abilities are useless. Even this with a small AOE. It must be instakill with cooldown. Just blow-up target (exept bosses) and do a bit area damage.

2) You nerf radius? LOLWUT? Its cool, but enemies have guns. And shoot. For a long range. Its does not provide full security even now, even if you scare all enemies in the radius. ALSO this is not the funnest thing, just to shoot the enemies, there are better ways for crowd control.

3) Well, i dont say nothing. It's not a Necros problem, so be it.

4) Have you ever play Diablo2? Or any other games.I think so, if u add flee.

Nobody like hordes of dumb alies. Exept war generals maybe. Its just a "please-dont-use-it" ability. If no one say it, it mean you have very gentle party which understand Nekros too want do something, not only desecrate-desecrate-desecrate.

 

And not any scale HP and Damage will change it, couse you will not do it significant, isn't it?

If u not remove it, it must be drastically reworked.

- No amount scale. 3-4 mobs, no more.

- 50% transparant. I mean for view, not only shooting. Now it just contrarily how it must be.

- Agro. It just must be.

- Better AI. I know you have it. Enemies try to kill me wery well.

 

 

And finally. Give em Corps Explosion. It oblivios.

 

 

p.s. For all this guys who ask nerf or remove Desecrate. You want play Necros and do not want "work"? Why the hell u think anyone will take u in party if u will have no Desecrate?

[Alteria]

Love the changes, going to test him out later!

[vnhoang320]

I don't know if i'm the only who actually use shadow of the dead with Duration mods + Power Str mods. But this buff is going to be fun and awesome for me : D! Also....pretty sure most don't even play nekcro with the complain of desecrate, but i love that fact it's a support ability to heal allies and awesome at survival map.

[(XBOX)Skode]

I use SotD as a big old army of decoys ability to distract the enemy so I can recharge shields, revive allies or clog a choke point but they've always been too squishy for liking. Actually giving them an edge greatly appeals, heavier heavies or less squishy buffing shadows sounds fantastic - now if only they could hasten the cast time... He's a dead man himself if not in cover when casting

[Archwizard]

p.s. For all this guys who ask nerf or remove Desecrate. You want play Necros and do not want "work"? Why the hell u think anyone will take u in party if u will have no Desecrate?

 

Why would anyone take any frame in any party? Because it's what you want to play.

 

You seem to think it's important to us that people are screaming "H> T4 Surv, LF Nekros" in Recruiting at all times. You overestimate it.

 

Nekros has other merits - CC, scaling damage, even some support functions like Soul Survivor. It won't matter as long as all you see him as is loot.

[AsahiOka]

Meanwhile people will still use desekros nekros pretty much only for desecrate.

Except me :D I have 2 nekros, 1 for defense and 1 for survival xD

Yeah, I waste like 10-12 formas in my 2 nekros :'D

Edited January 29, 2015 by DJNeonNight

[Keiros7]

Buff Oberon next, please!

[AsahiOka]

Why would anyone take any frame in any party? Because it's what you want to play.

 

You seem to think it's important to us that people are screaming "H> T4 Surv, LF Nekros" in Recruiting at all times. You overestimate it.

 

Nekros has other merits - CC, scaling damage, even some support functions like Soul Survivor. It won't matter as long as all you see him as is loot.

This, with a good power strength build you can have 20 shadows that can stay for 70 seconds (well, that is my build)

You can summon Ancient healers (that's the name?) that can instant-revive all your allies (and he have the augment for soul punch) , nekros is more than a simple farmer.

[ZeroInfinite]

I'm very interested in these changes. I'd like to know if DE is planning any new augments to be released into 15.12, or if DE is going to wait until U16 to release more.

[PsychoticMarik]

Instead of Desecrate only being used to rob graves, what about allowing it to defile corpses? Nekros already enslaves souls, so why not also give him the ability to turn bodies into something akin to proximity mines? They could deal damage, cripple enemies, and/or apply a DoT. Maybe they could even act like Swarm Moas, debuffing enemies while buffing allies.

This is certainly much better than the desecrate we have now.

I'm not against your suggestion. I just think that if reworked as a whole Nekros should be based on controlling minions.

 

Tho I suppose this could be a perfect replacement if the swarm moa like aspect of it latched onto allies like you suggested.

It could provide a healing factor to the minions, and perhaps to other players and companions as well. Tho you could make the player buff a bit different if you wanted. Perhaps a mini terrify effect on allied players? A much tamer version of course.

 

I actually think that if you simply made the bodies explode instantly to apply some fair aoe damage, and then had a swarm spawn for each body destroyed...that would then search for buddies to buff this could be an amazing ability.

 

The more I think about your suggestion the better it sounds. This could be an amazing replacement for desecrate, and it wouldnt require the entire skill to be redone. Just additions and mechanic changes.

 

Quote From R3W2ND

"- No amount scale. 3-4 mobs, no more.

And finally. Give em Corps Explosion. It oblivios.

 

p.s. For all this guys who ask nerf or remove Desecrate. You want play Necros and do not want "work"? Why the hell u think anyone will take u in party if u will have no Desecrate?"

 

 

Please Forgive the sloppy quote I screwed up while typing my comment.

 

I cant say I agree entirely with limiting it to 3 or 4 mobs. If you wanna change the phantoms to Nekros specific characters that act like mini boss/pets than that might be a different story, but I just dont agree about limiting it for its own sake.

Making the phantoms explode on death is a good idea tho. If thats what you were driving at with the 2nd comment.

 

As for that last part...I dont get it. You think I play video games to work? Who wants to come home from work to work? Least of all in a video game. If I'm coming home from work to work again I'm damn well getting paid for it.

 

If your talking about a fun concept of working towards something thats another story, but desecrate just isnt that. Its boring, and flat out horrible design that I frankly cant believe got into the game. Perhaps even worse is that its still part of the game. It honestly gives me some reason to be concerned about the future of the game when such horrible excuses for mechanics and abilities are put in.

 

The point is that I should be able to take any frame I want into any type of mission I want, and have fun and be useful at the same time.

Edited January 29, 2015 by PsychoticMarik

[Llyssa]

Meanwhile, the opposite side of the argument -

 

 

 

Yeah. Sure.

 

The argument to remove Desecrate has nothing to do with turning Nekros into a damage frame - give him another support power and we'll be happy. Strip the loot and O2 functions and we'll be happy.

 

We just want to play something that isn't another part-time job.

No one says you have to cast desecrate constantly. It's not even the best strategy in many situations.

 

None of the quotes you picked offered any argument at all, they just said some variation on "I hate desecrate". That isn't an argument. It's an uninformed bias.

 

The actual people giving explanations were demanding more firepower. You really love cherry picking, so go ahead and find those, there's enough to get another lengthy post, I assure you.

 

Further, there's lots of posts saying "leave desecrate alone, and we'll be happy".

 

Why the heck should he be stripped of a power just because some players cannot comprehend how to use the frame effectively? That makes ZERO sense.

 

Every single case of changing a power from a widely-disliked one to a universally loved one has involved tweaking a number or two attached to it. The largest case of turning a power from a widely-loved one to a widely-disliked one was removing it completely and replacing it with something else.

 

Dozens of success stories say you're wrong. Simple logic says you're wrong. Yet you persist, against all intelligent argument.

 

If you had any useful input, like what minor number tweak would make the skill loved by you, then yeah, go ahead, share. However, the "REMOVE IT!" faction is, as you pointed out, rather empty of all meaning, fueled by pointless hatred.

 

EDIT: Also, I would note, "NERF IT!", the summation of your little "and we(whoever the hell "we" is, certainly not any of the nekros players) will be happy", is not a helpful, useful, or meaningful suggestion.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Llyssa

[(PSN)Ninja_Reaper_916]

Can kills from summons add to the summon pool?

[climatiseur]

If the shadows block the bullets, it affects our attacks ; 

 

But If they don't block the bullets, their defending usage would be rinsed out.

 

How about this, make them still block the bullet from both ours and the enemies, however, all the damage absorbed results in increasing their output damage?

 

If you concern they will get too much attack boost, make a cap of them, let's say, after 1000 damage is absorbed, they emit a small radius explosion (eg 10m) dealing mild damage around them / just knocking down nearby enemies, and the attack boost will be reset.

 

How's that sound?

[(PSN)Ninja_Reaper_916]

could sotd summons kills add to the summon pool? Not sure if it does or was suggested already

Double post sorry