Nekros: Changes Coming For 15.12

[Lactamid]

Don't get why people want O2 not to spawn from Desecrate, that be a huge nerf to support Nekros that like making O2 for teams.

I think they might want to get that out in order to make the droprate of air change too. So you won't have to rely on a Nekros so hard.

 

The army from Shadows of the Dead should be 'orderable', selecting either an area to guard it or an enemy for them to attack by pressing 4 while the army is active.

Something like the tactics from Dragon Age, or using the "emotes" to order them around?

 

what if nekros will rise shadows with dead mobs but he don't have to kill mobs?

That would make it more useful in one way, but what would that shadow be? a mix of all or a "standardized" unit?

Maybe a single powerful "golem"?

 

 

Hell you could just rework this ult entirely to summon phantom mini boss like units designed specifically for Nekros that survive until killed like I've seen another poster suggest. This would actually be better overall because then the ult can be used no matter what, and in any situation.Maybe even have it summon just 3 Phantoms each with a unique model and role. Like a support/healer, Tank, Fighter.

 

And as for Desecrate...please just replace it with something that would synergize with his ults minions. Something that can heal allies or something but with an interesting twist. It could be used to help other Tenno, companions, but most importantly synergize with an army of minions that a skilled Nekros could potentially keep alive for the entire game. Assuming you remove the duration on them and just let them die when HP hits zero.

 

 

Would be nice.

[DeusInsania]

No...not really.

 

Heals and slows are gameplay mechanics. They effect the behavior of in-world entities. Loot drops are not an in-world entity, they're part of the metagame. No frame should be able to touch them.

 

TL;DR no frame should be in the farm niche

 

Then good luck having to farm even harder for all those mats. People will complain about it when it's gone. Again, this game is nothing but a grind. And Nekros is there to ease some of the pain.

 

Then remove all ultimates, because we've seen with that one interception mission, that killing IS farming.

^ thank you. Someone gets it.

Edited January 28, 2015 by DeusInsania

[LemongrabEarl]

I approve of these changes. Nekros is my favorite frame to play.

 

Edit:  Leave Desecrate the way it is. I don't approve of any of your suggestions about Desecrate, player base. It's there to make health orbs and loot. Nothing else. Leave it alone.

Edited January 28, 2015 by LemongrabEarl

[DrMeowmix]

[vaugahn]

Then remove all ultimates, because we've seen with that one interception mission, that killing IS farming.

Then good luck having to farm even harder for all those mats. People will complain about it when it's gone. Again, this game is nothing but a grind. And Nekros is there to ease some of the pain.

 

^ thank you. Someone gets it.

 

You guys are missing the point a little bit.

 

Ults are the same as any other damage dealer in the game, one kill is one roll on the drop table. Nekros gets two rolls on the drop table for every kill, at the cost of being able to play the game. That's why desecrate needs to go. No matter what they do to the other abilities, as long as Nekros gets double tries at loot those changes will be meaningless. Desecrate ruined Nekros, and the only way to un-ruin him is to get rid of it entirely. 

 

What I'm gathering from this thread is that everyone who actually uses Nekros thinks Desecrate is fine as is, while those who don't play him hate it.

 

Nekros is one of my top three frames. I still think Desecrate needs to go.

[DeusInsania]

You guys are missing the point a little bit.

 

Ults are the same as any other damage dealer in the game, one kill is one roll on the drop table. Nekros gets two rolls on the drop table for every kill, at the cost of being able to play the game. That's why desecrate needs to go. No matter what they do to the other abilities, as long as Nekros gets double tries at loot those changes will be meaningless. Desecrate ruined Nekros, and the only way to un-ruin him is to get rid of it entirely. 

 

 

Nekros is one of my top three frames. I still think Desecrate needs to go.

How is making the RNG grind easier, "ruining" nekros? Thats what he was designed for..

[Llyssa]

One other change, just reading some of the comments here:

 

What if SotD were given a level of transparency, instead of being solid black?

 

This would help twofold: Firstly, it would allow people who want to see what's behind the shadow to do so, and secondly, it would remove some of the confusion caused by things like nekros with yellow energy color in the void.

 

Just set the alpha level up to like 50%, so they're still quite visible, but no longer a visual problem.

[DeusInsania]

One other change, just reading some of the comments here:

 

What if SotD were given a level of transparency, instead of being solid black?

 

This would help twofold: Firstly, it would allow people who want to see what's behind the shadow to do so, and secondly, it would remove some of the confusion caused by things like nekros with yellow energy color in the void.

 

Just set the alpha level up to like 50%, so they're still quite visible, but no longer a visual problem.

Thats a pretty good idea. Altho my nekros' energy is green so they are black n green for me xD

[Nekros--]

Cool, thanks DE

[Llyssa]

What I'm gathering from this thread is that everyone who actually uses Nekros thinks Desecrate is fine as is, while those who don't play him hate it.

That seems about right.

 

Cannot understand why non-nekros have to be so spoiled about it.

[DeusInsania]

That seems about right.

 

Cannot understand why non-nekros have to be so spoiled about it.

because they are either A) too lazy to farm the ODA keys or B) Secretly masochists and like working harder instead of smarter.

[dashashou]

the one thing that needed to be changed about Nekros - Desecrate  is being left untouched !!!

 

 

i just don't under stand DE why is people having to macro the nekros  as a desecrate machine a good thing?! 

 

when i'm on nekros i Literately press 3 1000s of times !!! that needs to be changed that above all else  

Edited January 28, 2015 by Ravel7

[SlashD17]

Desecrate is good as it is. Since the changes they made on Survival missions, Nekros became a "not utterly needed" warframe to do them, ls droppable capsules from enemies come more easily since they spawn more closer to you.

 

The argument of Nekros being glued to Survival type of mission is embarassing, meaning people dont know how to do survival missions properly (ever since the changes to survival all you need to do is keep killing enemies and you will be fine) , or they are too lazy to move around and shoot and so they just want to spam his 3rd ability.

 

My experience as a Nekros in survival missions is rather good, he does help with desecrate but its kinda a waste if you keep spamming it, he has CC in his kit, and his 4th ability brings alot of survivability when your group is stuck in a tight situation.People need to understand that he isnt a warframe to deal TONS of damage , he is a support warframe that requires you to kill enemies to bring out the goodies of his kit (3rd and 4th ability), the other two abilities are made for CC. 

[taiiat]

nothing on Desecrate? [the other Abilities are certainly getting tweaks that will help them out, but there's a big problem that's being ignored because of 'lel muh phat l00t farming'.]

 

well, then Nekros still isn't a real Warframe.

for every second Desecrate affects Resource, Oxygen, and Mod Drops, Nekros can never be a real Warframe.

 

Nekros wants a Support Ability in that slot, but instead has an AFKfarming Ability in that slot.

 

 

 

Edit:

since i'm sure someone is going to get butthurt that i don't think Nekros should have a l00t farming theme and should instead have a Necromancer theme (which is his supposed theme anyways, but ended up being l00t farming):

 

instead of Desecrate affecting l00t, because by existence it lowers the Chances to get the things you want.

Desecrate should be a Support Ability. it is the basic structure of one, it has Health, and Ammo, with Energy from time to time.

but it doesn't Support the Shadows (such as Healing them N% if they've taken any amount of Damage since the last time you casted Desecrate), doesn't support Allies or self outside of Health, Ammo, and a bit of Energy (which are nice to have more of, but doesn't constitute being an entire Ability for it).

 

so ideally, Desecrate would Support Shadows(ala Healing them if they take Damage), Support Allies, and then preferably an Offensive and / or Utility facet. i'm leaning more towards Utility since Utility is better, mayhaps in a lowish Range around each Corpse, Enemies would be debuffed in some manner. could also buff Players in some manner i suppose.

 

and more, most preferably. Soul Punch and Terrify having Synergy with Desecrate would be very nice.

mayhaps Enemies that die while under the effect of Terrify or having been hit by Soul Punch would... insert something useful here.

Edited January 29, 2015 by taiiat

[Saryn]

This is gonna fix Trinity's Link always linking to Nekros' undead right?

[DeusInsania]

the one thing that needed to be changed about Nekros - Desecrate  is being left untouched !!!

 

 

i just don't under stand DE why is people having to macro the nekros  as a desecrate machine a good thing?! 

 

when i'm on nekros i Literately press 3 1000s of times !!! that needs to be changed that above all else  

 

In longer missions yea that can get tiring but i kinda like it.

 

Desecrate is good as it is. Since the changes they made on Survival missions, Nekros became a "not utterly needed" warframe to do them, ls droppable capsules from enemies come more easily since they spawn more closer to you.

 

The argument of Nekros being glued to Survival type of mission is embarassing, meaning people dont know how to do survival missions properly (ever since the changes to survival all you need to do is keep killing enemies and you will be fine) , or they are too lazy to move around and shoot and so they just want to spam his 3rd ability.

 

My experience as a Nekros in survival missions is rather good, he does help with desecrate but its kinda a waste if you keep spamming it, he has CC in his kit, and his 4th ability brings alot of survivability when your group is stuck in a tight situation.People need to understand that he isnt a warframe to deal TONS of damage , he is a support warframe that requires you to kill enemies to bring out the goodies of his kit (3rd and 4th ability), the other two abilities are made for CC. 

 

i've been in some survival parties where we're killing everything and LS doesn't drop enough for us to stay longer. But what you say is true, it can be done.

And that last paragraph <3 you understand! Unlike all these crybabies.

 

nothing on Desecrate? [the other Abilities are certainly getting tweaks that will help them out, but there's a big problem that's being ignored because of 'lel muh phat l00t farming'.]

 

well, then Nekros still isn't a real Warframe.

for every second Desecrate affects Resource, Oxygen, and Mod Drops, Nekros can never be a real Warframe.

 

Nekros wants a Support Ability in that slot, but instead has an AFKfarming Ability in that slot.

I'll just refer you to SlashD17's last paragraph:

"My experience as a Nekros in survival missions is rather good, he does help with desecrate but its kinda a waste if you keep spamming it, he has CC in his kit, and his 4th ability brings alot of survivability when your group is stuck in a tight situation.People need to understand that he isnt a warframe to deal TONS of damage , he is a support warframe that requires you to kill enemies to bring out the goodies of his kit (3rd and 4th ability), the other two abilities are made for CC."

[Llyssa]

Reading more, the main argument against nekros seems to be "WHY DOESN'T NEKROS PLAY EXACTLY LIKE NOVA?"

 

Gee....  I don't know....

[DeusInsania]

Reading more, the main argument against nekros seems to be "WHY DOESN'T NEKROS PLAY EXACTLY LIKE NOVA?"

 

Gee....  I don't know....

^ "WHY ISN'T NEKROS A SUPER ULTRA 1HKO EVERYTHING DPS THAT HAS GODMODE."

 

People dont realize that the run and gun element isn't the ONLY element in WF. maybe thats why i see so many scrubs lone wolfing it in maps and they get knocked down and die because we're so far away.

Edited January 29, 2015 by DeusInsania

[QTEila]

and then desecrate was not desecrated, today is a good day

[Kankree]

Horaay for Lootmeister!

[Fenrys]

SHADOW OF THE DEAD IS A BAD BAD BAD ABILITY!!!

 

When will this ability be finally looked at as anti-tenno, anti-squad, anti-strategy.

Having multiple NPC's in the battle doesn't make them being good or worth, just like all of the useless specter features.

 

More NPCs (the shadows) means:

- more mess and confusion on the battle for the tenno

- shadows blocking passages and escape routs.

- shadows in defense block the view of the pod, block the access to pod, when this is getting attacked.

- they get in front of the players view blocking the shots; it works both ways ppl, they not only are bullet sponges for the enemy but also for our shots too.

- they usually are useless AI wise, and also in damage, I don't think this buff will do much of a change.

- to call this ability an ultimate is pretty bad, since terrify is 100 times better as an ultimate ability, then shadows.

 

 

To make shadow of the dead, an actual useful ability, or worthy of being an ultimate, it needs changes, real ones.

Like perhaps reducing the shadows to only 3 or 5, but each actually is strong, powerful, and reliable.

Or to change the way it works, only because it was thought up as an ability, doesn't mean it is actually tactically beneficial.

And besides limbo idiotic abilities, I consider this shadow ability as being the worse ability in all the game, cause it will work against the players, as I have seen so many times, the nekros die, or the team die, or the mission failing, because shadows were summoned.

Whoa, take it easy! And please do a better job of explaining how SotD is a bad ability post-buff and/or how it needs to be changed or replaced, especially when you claim TERRIFY would be a better ult. Granted, sometimes they get in the way, but I rarely have issues with that, and DE is addressing that anyways with the ability to walk and shoot through Shadows.

 

Personally, I have more isssues with the Shadows habitually wandering away from the place I summoned them at, or not following enemies to the new combat areas in modes like Survival. Mod for Duration, and they usually stay way too far away from combat to be of any use. 

 

Along those thoughts, I have a suggestion for another addition to Shadows of the Dead: Shadows summoned will follow Nekros around when not actively fighting enemies, similar to Kubrow and Specters. Might make the ability a bit more useful for run-and-gun gameplay if the Shadows stay near Nekros and continue to provide cover fire for him. As is, the buffed ability will probably be great for Defense missions, should be fun to play around with :D

 

Oh, and Limbo has his place too. Have you seen Cataclysm in Defense missions? He does a better job of defending the point than Frost does, and Frost is the definitive Defense frame :D

Edited January 29, 2015 by Fenrys

[PsychoticMarik]

What I'm gathering from this thread is that everyone who actually uses Nekros thinks Desecrate is fine as is, while those who don't play him hate it.

I'm not really sure where you're getting this impression personally.

Nekros is my most played frame, and I still hate Desecrate. I dont really mind tossing it around in between fighting, but its just flat out bad design.

 

Creating a character in a game that gives more rolls on loot drops, and on top of that having to spam the power as part of that process is just embarassing. Its not fun, and its certainly not creative. Even as a toggle of some kind I'd still find this to be a total waste of an ability.

A game shouldnt feel the need to have a character incerted for almost the sole puprose of helping people get drops they want. Its just lazy and uniteresting.

 

DE has a fun game on their hands, but they seem to have some really questionable ideas and execution.

 

I'd really love to see desecrate changed into something else, and as I've posted before not just changes to desecrate but an overall rework of the entire frame's mechanics. If he's suppose to be anything like a necromancer the way his name implies he should certainly be designed around the idea. Instead of just tacking on an underwhelming form of the idea onto a single ability.

 

I do appreciate the buffs tho. Despite how small, and overall underwhelming they are.

[APsinon]

PHEW HE DIDNT DESECRATE DESECRATE!!!

[TheDandyLion]

I can't believe I am the only one to say this, but I really hope that Shadows of the dead and Desecrate get their animation times decreased. Shadows of the dead takes too long even with natural talent. Desecrate is not even useable without natural talent and that mod slot is really needed for nekros.

[-Time-]

When his abilities, aside from desecrate, are good to where i forget to desecrate cuz im busy using everything else comes to pass... i feel i will be most satisfied...