MotherofHermes Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 DON'T TOUCH DESECRATE. FOR NOW. Let these changes sink in. Get feedback, fix bugs if any in the reworks. Nekros round 2 would be solely a rework of Desecrate. It's a touchy subject which will undoubtedly stir the emotions of the players. So it should be treated exclusively, instead of jumbled with other changes. MAKE A POLL, not just a PSA. Give us a way to give input, but which can also be measurable. BE FLEXIBLE. Even if it changes the way you envisioned it originally. Which way would you prefer the new desecrate to effect? [ ] instant (as currently is) [ ] over time (would desecrate one or more per tick and tick tick tick) with fixed duration [ ] over time as a toggle ability (restricts energy regain) How would you prefer Desecrate targeting to work? [ ] enchants living enemies, auto-desecrates on death [ ] targets dead enemies (as currently is) How would you prefer Desecrate effectiveness to operate? [ ] Always works, costs more energy [ ] May fail, costs less (as currently is) but can be recast on same target How would you prefer Desecrate's energy cost to operate? [ ] Fixed cost [ ] Variable cost depending on number of enemies affected TRY EXTENSIVE USER INPUT WITH OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENT AT LEAST ONCE. Let us give input, then experiment accordingly with the most voted options. If it meltdowns, then you may never try it again. But let me defend the extensive input paradigm a bit more, look at the past events. DE (Steve) has admitted more than once that bad communication (and a bit of dev panic) cause a ruckus in the community more than once. We love when you put up those PSAs, and drool and swamp you with our ideas on the next steps to make it even better. You have already seen that bad communication hurts, and I hope that you see the amount of excitement (and concern) that the improved communication gives is a positive force in the community. Now if you just put a little bit more guidance to coax the player feedback to come in a more automagically shaped and measurable format, you will also know what you have to do to INCREASE THE GOOD in the player community. INCREASE THE GOOD. That's your Mantra. How about removed and replaced. Right now it's a power gaming tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusInsania Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 So first off let me start by saying I love DE. Always appreciate all the effort they put into making and balancing this game. That being said this "buff" seems absolutely pointless. Terrify- Still cant be recast while active meaning the guys outside its 15 yard radius still murder you. More targets + less range is honestly the last thing this move needed. If anything it should have gone the other way around. SoulPunch is fine Shadows of the Dead- As people have pointed out, this is just a terrible ability. This game is too fast paced to just summon random npc's and hope they do their job. No matter how much they buff it, or change it, will never hold a candle next to other ultimate level abilities due to its lack of being able to focus a target or targets. The only way I could see to fix this move would be to lower it to less npcs at less cost, and allow it to be used consistently (similar to mirage clones). As long as other frames can continue to murder their way through everything with ultimate spam, this will continue to sit back of the bus. Aaaand Desecrate- I'm gonna catch some flak for saying this but please change desecrate... No warframe should have an extra loot drop ability, nor should they be brought along simply because they have extra loot drop ability. This is a gimmick, and I think large portion of players would rather see an all around necromantic frame. I dont use terrify so doesn't concern me. Same with soulpunch. However, Shadow IS a good skill when used in the right situations aka Survivals and defense missions where there isn't as much movement. And yea you are gunna get flak because what you're basically saying is to normalize all frames. That's not what WF is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--K--2lstgun Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) So first off let me start by saying I love DE. Always appreciate all the effort they put into making and balancing this game. That being said this "buff" seems absolutely pointless. Terrify- Still cant be recast while active meaning the guys outside its 15 yard radius still murder you. More targets + less range is honestly the last thing this move needed. If anything it should have gone the other way around. SoulPunch is fine Shadows of the Dead- As people have pointed out, this is just a terrible ability. This game is too fast paced to just summon random npc's and hope they do their job. No matter how much they buff it, or change it, will never hold a candle next to other ultimate level abilities due to its lack of being able to focus a target or targets. The only way I could see to fix this move would be to lower it to less npcs at less cost, and allow it to be used consistently (similar to mirage clones). As long as other frames can continue to murder their way through everything with ultimate spam, this will continue to sit back of the bus. Aaaand Desecrate- I'm gonna catch some flak for saying this but please change desecrate... No warframe should have an extra loot drop ability, nor should they be brought along simply because they have extra loot drop ability. This is a gimmick, and I think large portion of players would rather see an all around necromantic frame. The update isn't in yet. After the update you will be able to recast terrify for as long as you have the energy, even when it's still active. And as for desecrate? You need a specific build to make good use of it, and it makes your Nekros VERY squishy. As in, you come up against a heavy gunner? You dead. Edited January 28, 2015 by 2lstGun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiova Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Shadows of the Dead sugestion: Let the player/allies bullets get across the nekros shadows, also an effect like mirage's #1 abillity, so we can see trought the shadows when aiming at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusInsania Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Which way would you prefer the new desecrate to effect? [x ] instant (as currently is) [ ] over time (would desecrate one or more per tick and tick tick tick) with fixed duration [ ] over time as a toggle ability (restricts energy regain) How would you prefer Desecrate targeting to work? [ ] enchants living enemies, auto-desecrates on death [ x ] targets dead enemies (as currently is) How would you prefer Desecrate effectiveness to operate? [ ] Always works, costs more energy [ x ] May fail, costs less (as currently is) but can be recast on same target How would you prefer Desecrate's energy cost to operate? [ x ] Fixed cost [ ] Variable cost depending on number of enemies affected S#&$ i'll vote now >_> Desecrate is fine. It doesn't need to be touched. Just run flow/streamline/range and there ya go. Maybe duration if you use shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidPunch Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I would honestly prefer Desecrate to be take on out the game. Move the extra loot mechanic to soul punch maybe so that skill is more then just a single target ragdoll. Have soul punch drop extra loot from enemies it kills. I think Desecrate has de-valued Nekros completely, no one really cares to see his potential (if any at the moment, but maybe with these minor fixes) due to the fact that he is only a loot machine. Give us a power that synergies with his existing powers or necromancer theme: - Maybe a power that gives Nekros an aura around him that drains the life of enemies within range and replenishes his health and his shadow's health. - Or have him cast a field on the ground where enemies that come inside slowly die. Enemies that do die within the field get added to Nekros SOTD even if he didn't kill them and have them drop extra loot that way. Edited January 28, 2015 by HandsOfnArtist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax_Cavalera Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Sounds good, can we fix Mag next.. broke 1st, and 4th abilities.. no synergy with 3rd ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What is the purpose of this change when it changes literally nothing to the inherit core problem of this frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Soul punch small AOE? Used for CC, so a small AOE for small corridors would work great :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusInsania Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What is the purpose of this change when it changes literally nothing to the inherit core problem of this frame? And what would this "inherit core problem" be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellinger Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 and Necro came out the darkness.... he was reborn... meanwhile... Oberon ws waiting for a fix/buff i hope they changed desecrate... it suck and lets be franc , ruin Frame rate i think you might be using desecrate wrong if you think it sucks. desecrate is absolutely op. the only way it could get better is if they made it a GUARANTEED drop. that would make him the child of RNGesus and even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampirePirate Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 - Adding the ability for players to walk through Shadows of the Dead clones. Also of note: dev-experiments are ongoing for bullets to be able to go through Shadows of the Dead Clones. Does this mean all bullets or just what are shot from the guns of player/warframes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChameleonDude Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 And desecrate is still a broken skill. Still, this is a buff - not a sidegrade like Ember got. Looking forward to trying this guy out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsmith Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yeyah! Although terrify should affect all enemies within range, balancing it with less range and duration . The good thing is you can spam it now if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusInsania Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) i think you might be using desecrate wrong if you think it sucks. desecrate is absolutely op. the only way it could get better is if they made it a GUARANTEED drop. that would make him the child of RNGesus and even better. Srsly. Idk why all these kiddies are crying about Desecrate being bad. I've NEVER had a problem with it. Built my nekros around that skill alone pretty much (and a bit of shadows, but this was before when you had to put the skills onto the frame as mods). i desecrate twice and all bodies are gone. Never had to do it more than that. EDIT: Also, you remove nekros' desecrate and you can say goodbye to those super long survival runs since it will be extremely more difficult without the extra LS drops. Edited January 28, 2015 by DeusInsania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeks Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 When did I say normalize all the warframes? You yourself say you don't use 2 of his abilities, and his ult only situationally. The goal of the rework is to get him to do more than just spam desecrate. Sadly its not gonna happen till desecrate changes. If you really feel you need desecrate just to farm your a fool. Endless anything is all the farming you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me.KayOh Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 idk. ppl who only use nekros for desecrating purposes may not be bothered by these changes, but that's not all i use him for. terrify is a great ability with the AR. ideally its supposed to be used amongst a bunch of close mobs so that they run away. reduced range is not a problem but more targets is great! buffs to SOTD are great too. more damage and HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Shadows of the Dead Changes is still TRASH, i want at least 1 good unit that will fight on my side UNLIMITED time !!!! (till he die) and not this garbage. this is what i understand under necromancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchPhaeton Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Oh my Orokin Gods... Finally! THANKS DE. Keep tweaking the frames, many have interesting concepts and potential but for some reason in the end they don't deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Srsly. Idk why all these kiddies are crying about Desecrate being bad. I've NEVER had a problem with it. Built my nekros around that skill alone pretty much (and a bit of shadows, but this was before when you had to put the skills onto the frame as mods). i desecrate twice and all bodies are gone. Never had to do it more than that. EDIT: Also, you remove nekros' desecrate and you can say goodbye to those super long survival runs since it will be extremely more difficult without the extra LS drops. Desecrate isn't bad like how you're using bad. It's bad because it ruins Nekros as a frame by reducing him to a single gimmick, and generally ruins the fun of anyone playing Nekros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouldershoulder Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well since you can pass through them they won't block anything and they are trying to make it so you can shoot through them. Half of your problems are now gone. Also they have more then twice the damage of what you killed and twice the health, meaning you have an infinitely scaling team of AI's to spawn. No matter how strong the enemies get your shadows will be twice as strong. These changes have the potential to make this one of the better end game powers in the long run. Although, mobs killed by the shadows do not count, we will still have to kill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusInsania Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) When did I say normalize all the warframes? You yourself say you don't use 2 of his abilities, and his ult only situationally. The goal of the rework is to get him to do more than just spam desecrate. Sadly its not gonna happen till desecrate changes. If you really feel you need desecrate just to farm your a fool. Endless anything is all the farming you need. "No warframe should have an extra loot drop ability," <- pretty much right there. By that logic, no frame should have an extra heal or extra slow, etc etc. And yea I don't use half his abilities because I built my Nekros around a specific situaton (altho if i had the soul punch augment i'd be only not using his 2nd) Work smarter, not harder dude. Nekros IS a farm frame. Just as Trinity is a healer, Valkyrie is a DPSer/teammate reviver, nekros is a farmer. This game revolves around farming. The point is to bring nekros along INTO the endless anything and cut up all enemies for double/triple the chance at whatever you're farming. TL;DR Every frame has its niche. Nekros' is farming. Desecrate isn't bad like how you're using bad. It's bad because it ruins Nekros as a frame by reducing him to a single gimmick, and generally ruins the fun of anyone playing Nekros. I actually have tons of fun with him. I love piling up bodies and using desecrate and hearing it go off. It's like opening a grab bag everytime <3 Edited January 28, 2015 by DeusInsania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 "No warframe should have an extra loot drop ability," <- pretty much right there. By that logic, no frame should have an extra heal or extra slow, etc etc. No...not really. Heals and slows are gameplay mechanics. They effect the behavior of in-world entities. Loot drops are not an in-world entity, they're part of the metagame. No frame should be able to touch them. TL;DR no frame should be in the farm niche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMelty Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What I'm gathering from this thread is that everyone who actually uses Nekros thinks Desecrate is fine as is, while those who don't play him hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 No...not really. Heals and slows are gameplay mechanics. They effect the behavior of in-world entities. Loot drops are not an in-world entity, they're part of the metagame. No frame should be able to touch them. TL;DR no frame should be in the farm niche Then remove all ultimates, because we've seen with that one interception mission, that killing IS farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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