Nekros: Changes Coming For 15.12

[Aeon94]

Tenno,

 

If you watched Devstream #45 or caught the post-stream discussions, you may recall the talk of Nekros ability changes. We are planning on releasing the first pass of changes to Nekros in 15.12 (on PC today!).

 

Soul Punch Changes:

 

Soul Punch can be cast from any direction/orientation, meaning that Nekros doesn't have to orient himself to cast on a selected target.

 

Terrify Changes:

 

Terrify casting time reduced.

Terrify will now affect a greater number of targets.(Before: Maxed Terrify = 12 targets. After: Maxed Terrify = 20 targets.)

Terrify can now be recast.

Terrify will prioritize unaffected targets on cast.

Terrify range has been slightly reduced.  (Before: Maxed Terrify = 20 m. After: Maxed Terrify = 15 m.)

 

Shadows of the Dead Changes:

 

Increased the damage output (x2.5 with Maxed SOTD) of summoned shadows created by Shadows of the Dead.

Increased the health (x2 with Maxed SOTD) of summoned shadows created by Shadows of the Dead.

 

As with all Warframes, modding can be used to enhance different aspects of Nekros' abilities.

 

1:22 PM EST Edit:

This just in: one thing that may make it into the first pass today (if not today, then second pass will likely have this):

- Adding the ability for players to walk through Shadows of the Dead clones.

Also of note: dev-experiments are ongoing for bullets to be able to go through Shadows of the Dead Clones.

 

 

Keep in mind that details are subject to change! Discussion on these changes are welcome. Please be respectful and constructive in your discussions - leave your weapons in your Liset as you enter the discussion chambers.

Nekros still not feel like master of dead / shadows. DE pls change terrify completely like;

 

 * Toggleable

 * Energy drain ( 10 energy per sec ) can be affected by efficiency mods. 10 energy because less energy per sec become too OP

 * Duration 15 sec

 * Range can be 15 meters or less and affected by range mods

 * Enemies'll crouch instead of run away from u because noone wants to follow escaping enemies

 * Armor reduction stay same

 * Completely new animation like stalker's smoke effect with custom energy color because nekros needs really terrifying look and he is master of shadows right?

 * Maybe add sound effect like Nazgûl's screech from LOTR :P

 

For SotD;

 

* Shadows must be transparent instead of black statues and have good AI :D

 

For Soul Punch;

 

* I wanna see new soul punch i'll decide what is wrong with it after i use it :P

 

For Desecrate;

 

* All of WF players include "me" using nekros for only desecrate's loot potential. Desec must be changed but i don't know how :(

Edited January 29, 2015 by Aeon94

[cyrus106]

Volt is fine.

Thats a huge lie, his ult is the worst in the game, period

[RawGritz]

I really like the later part of this post of arms coming up from the ground where you cast terrify and grabbing enemies thus distracting them from you. It would be a great thing to cast when your being chased or just trying to get away. I'm all for this:)

Thanks. I really feel like this fits him better and helps the entire squad a bit more.

[Aeon94]

You can REUSE MIRAGE'S Hall Of Mirrors visual effect to make Shadows Of The Dead see-thru.

i love that idea this makes shadows more like shadows instead of black and energy colored statues :P

[Mickey33]

I am the evil here and I want Desecrate to have 10 second cooldown muahahahah

Or, change desecrate to duration based AOE that cannot be recast. Auto reloot enemy corpses within range.
 

That will stop the spamming 3 machine. But anyway, remove LS from desecrate to leverage Nekros demand is a good suggestion.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Mickey33

[Nosferagon]

So the "Loot on sale, 2 for the price of one, pick yours now!" frame will try and compete with my DOG to see who's scarier. My bet is on the dog.

[Archwizard]

Let's see...

 

1.      The “soul cache” mechanic on Shadows of the Dead forces Nekros players to restrict their killing blows to certain targets in order to make their Shadows worthwhile.

2.      Shadows need an AI overhaul. They aren’t “dumb” so much as too smart for competence, seeking cover when they should be aggressive and patrolling areas their summoner has already left.

3.      Shadows of the Dead, as a body-blocking tool, is a two way street; Nekros and his allies cannot see or shoot through Shadows, which just means they create clutter on the battlefield. Dealt with!

4.      Despite being his “Oh S#&$” button, Nekros is locked out of casting Terrify an additional time while active, leaving him defenseless if another wave of enemies approaches. Dealt with!

5.      Of the many ways to decrease enemy armor, only one cannot approach 100% on its own within current Power Strength constrictions or be stacked to that point: Terrify.

6.      Enemies under the effects of Terrify sprint at full-speed toward the nearest exit, making it harder to take advantage of the armor debuff or clean the slate for a second cast.

7.      Soul Punch has virtually nonexistent area-effect compared to an ability like Smite or Pull, and does not provide sufficient benefits to justify being single-target like Banish. It's just a knockdown at high level, which each of those have and more.

8.      Desecrate’s reliance on RNG forces it to be spammed for maximum effectiveness; this spam locks Nekros players out of using his other abilities or attacks, and makes it difficult to build the “soul cache”.

9.      Desecrate does not synergize with the rest of Nekros’ kit; despite Shadows making him the one frame who can justify having teamplay support even in solo mode, they can’t benefit from the loot his “support” provides (nor approach it if they could).

 

Finally, and most importantly,

 

10.    Desecrate’s metagame benefits make the loot it provides more important than any other skill in Nekros’ arsenal. Any changes to his other skills won't matter so long as he has to spam this skill, or build exclusively Power Range for the benefit of this skill alone.

 

I will grant that there is a penchant for some things to be left out of the official notes, but all I can say right now is...

 

... It's a start.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Archwizard

[Monolake]

Good stuff. Except the soul punch is not doing anything except ragdolling a single target. Not worth 25 energy. 

 

And Terrify will be #1 trolling move now.  Be ready for threads like "Necros scared all the enemies away so we couldn't finish defence". To prevent this put slow on terrified enemies, same as with the barking dog ability. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by Monolake

[Pendragon1951]

@RawGritz I also thought after that it would almost be like Nekros own Bastille, would be great to cast near the pod and anyone who comes near gets grabbed:)

[VoidPunch]

Will terrify's armor debuff stack when recast-ed now that it can be recast-ed on enemies???

[Ryjeon]

The Terrify changes should really boost its usability. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Ryjeon

[Second_Measure]

Terrify should stop the enemies in their tracks, making them stand still and cower in fear, unable to do anything than that.

 

Soulpunch could use a charge-up, tapping the ability for a quick single target launch, holding it for a area of effect.

 

The army from Shadows of the Dead should be 'orderable', selecting either an area to guard it or an enemy for them to attack by pressing 4 while the army is active.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Second_Measure

[Touch_Fluffy_Tail]

what if nekros will rise shadows with dead mobs but he don't have to kill mobs?

[CTanGod]

Thats a huge lie, his ult is the worst in the game, period

Mag's Crush is atleast 10 times worse than Volt's, atleast Volt's is a good CC skill while Crush is just a 2.4 second stagger that once it ends you can't do anything for 0.5 seconds and they immediatly shoot you.

[Hybridon]

Seem like he is finally getting balanced.

 

Great changes, id just argue he needs some mechanical change also to Desecrate... 3 spamming is a thing, maybe make it an aura or something?

[PsiWarp]

Can't wait to try these changes out.

 

I'd like Desecrate mashkeyfest to be addressed though.

[VoidPunch]

SHADOW OF THE DEAD IS A BAD BAD BAD ABILITY!!!

 

When will this ability be finally looked at as anti-tenno, anti-squad, anti-strategy.

Having multiple NPC's in the battle doesn't make them being good or worth, just like all of the useless specter features.

 

More NPCs (the shadows) means:

- more mess and confusion on the battle for the tenno

- shadows blocking passages and escape routs.

- shadows in defense block the view of the pod, block the access to pod, when this is getting attacked.

- they get in front of the players view blocking the shots; it works both ways ppl, they not only are bullet sponges for the enemy but also for our shots too.

- they usually are useless AI wise, and also in damage, I don't think this buff will do much of a change.

- to call this ability an ultimate is pretty bad, since terrify is 100 times better as an ultimate ability, then shadows.

 

 

To make shadow of the dead, an actual useful ability, or worthy of being an ultimate, it needs changes, real ones.

Like perhaps reducing the shadows to only 3 or 5, but each actually is strong, powerful, and reliable.

Or to change the way it works, only because it was thought up as an ability, doesn't mean it is actually tactically beneficial.

And besides limbo idiotic abilities, I consider this shadow ability as being the worse ability in all the game, cause it will work against the players, as I have seen so many times, the nekros die, or the team die, or the mission failing, because shadows were summoned.

Well since you can pass through them they won't block anything and they are trying to make it so you can shoot through them. Half of your problems are now gone. Also they have more then twice the damage of what you killed and twice the health, meaning you have an infinitely scaling team of AI's to spawn. No matter how strong the enemies get your shadows will be twice as strong. These changes have the potential to make this one of the better end game powers in the long run. 

[Pandoran_Stallion]

Seriously, what's wrong with volt?

Come to think of it... Dammit you're right.

[_Absolom_]

Oh boy. 

 

Volt next, please. 

I think the only thing that needs touching is Overload. The rest is fine.

Also, Electric Shield making projectiles hit-scan again. Please. Make it happen.

[direcyphre]

This just in: one thing that may make it into the first pass today (if not today, then second pass will likely have this):

- Adding the ability for players to walk through Shadows of the Dead clones.

Also of note: dev-experiments are ongoing for bullets to be able to go through Shadows of the Dead Clones.

 

Well that would be amazing.

[-Aozora-]

Great changes and I'm a big fun of Nekros' SoTD but I'm just wondering why the summoned shadows doesn't act like they're supposed to be like come on they are shadows/souls, they're supposed to be ghost-like and make your bullets pass through off them and also make the enemies flip out the sh♥t out of them while being haunted by their old friends .

[Demon_Mask]

Question regarding shadows of the dead changes:

In terms of bullets passing through the clones, is this limited to tenno cell bullets allowing for a meat shield effect that we can shoot through, or will enemies gain the ability to shoot through them also, this would of course mean that the clones take no damage and act as mobile damaging decoys?

[KittyDarkling]

    These changes look so awesome I can't wait!!!! :D I really don't think terrify needs it's casting limit removed now that it's recast-able. and I'm so excited for shadows that REALLY hurt enemies!

 

    What I'd like to see is maybe an armor or a health buff! Nekros needs a little meat on his bones.

[EmptyDevil]

    What I'd like to see is maybe an armor or a health buff! Nekros needs a little meat on his bones.

But he is dead incarnate.

Edited January 28, 2015 by EmptyDevil

[PsychoticMarik]

While I'll certainly take these changes over nothing this is still just a decent start at best.

He needs to be reworked to reflect a Necromancer minion master playstyle. Like his name suggest, and like I was hyped for back when I first heard about him. He'd be the only one of his kind in warframe, and pretty unquie even compared to most other games if something like this was done.

 

Soul Punch buff is appreciated but its still an underwhelming power.

 

Terrify changes are better than what we had, but you didnt go far enough. I dont see the point in nerfing its range at all honestly(tho I can accept it), and upping the enemy cap while also making it recastable are certainly welcome compared to what we had...I still cant help but think that all you had to do was slightly buff its range and remove the enemy cap completely as well as adding the kubrow howl slow/and or just make them cower instead and the skill would be perfect. A truely game changing CC ability. Which would make the cooldown perfectly fine.

Again this buff is certainly better than what we had, but now the skill is going to become something thats spammed instead of just being a super powerful CC thats used once when things get really bad, and when enemies literally sprint away it still doesnt make the skill all that great.

 

Shadows of the dead buffs are better than nothing, but this skill still needs more, and/or a rework.

Even if you add everything that should exist with this ability to begin with(better AI, semi transparent, no allied collision or bullet blocking)its still lacking.

At the very least these units should exist until slain. Which even then wouldnt make it half as good as most other frames ults, but it would make it unique and fun. Some kinda command wheel for the units(like what kubrows should also have)would also add to this skill if they didnt expire until their hp hit zero.

Hell you could just rework this ult entirely to summon phantom mini boss like units designed specifically for Nekros that survive until killed like I've seen another poster suggest. This would actually be better overall because then the ult can be used no matter what, and in any situation...kinda like literally any other frames ult. This idea would also allow you to reduce the amount on the field to a more fixed number if you so desired. Maybe even have it summon just 3 Phantoms each with a unique model and role. Like a support/healer, Tank, Fighter. Tho I understand this also somewhat reduces the fun of being a minion master to begin with, but it would still be better than what we have now. Tho the concept of using killed enemies to make an army is fun, so I'm not against it so long as large reworks are done.

 

And as for Desecrate...please just replace it with something that would synergize with his ults minions. Something that can heal allies or something but with an interesting twist. It could be used to help other Tenno, companions, but most importantly synergize with an army of minions that a skilled Nekros could potentially keep alive for the entire game. Assuming you remove the duration on them and just let them die when HP hits zero.

 

There are tons of ideas posted by other players that would work fantastically too. I'm just tossing out ideas like the rest of us who want Nekros to be something awesome compared to what he is now.

 

All in all these are some decent changes that I'll gladly accept for the time being, but please dont just sit on these minior changes for the next year. I've been waiting for Nekros to be reworked into something amazing for a long enough time as it is.

Edited January 28, 2015 by PsychoticMarik