Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[GrandClapper]

No point in giving extra for stealth. The only thing you miss out on with stealth is exp for mastery and some drops. Just figure out a way to give the same amount of exp you get normally with maybe 1 or 2 random mods to even out the fewer chances you have of getting them.

[grillv20]

No point in giving extra for stealth. The only thing you miss out on with stealth is exp for mastery and some drops. Just figure out a way to give the same amount of exp you get normally with maybe 1 or 2 random mods to even out the fewer chances you have of getting them.

 

how about different rewards for stealth that you wouldnt normally get instead of the usual drops? so you can go back and replay a mission and have a chance to get something that you normally wouldnt get otherwise

[ShadowTheBeater]

Or what about a reward system depending on the amount of stealth missions and there difficulty

[StefanKOBRA2]

Like getting rare things for completing mission stealthy

[Paradoxbomb]

Just a few random suggestions (excuse me if any of these have already been made)

 

-Control Consoles should be visible on the map at all times, whether or not there is a lockdown. Additionally, when an enemy is making a break for a console, they should be marked on the map, so that way you know which enemy to prioritize.

 

-If an enemy does trigger an alarm, there should be one console on a random tileset that, when hacked, will take you off the ship scanners, and return enemies to an unalerted state (it should be off the main path so that you will have to go out of your way to find it of course).

 

-Killing an enemy with a stealth kill should grant significantly more exp than a normal kill to compensate for the decrease number of enemy and the time it takes to kill them. The exp could either go to your melee weapon, or be evenly distributed between your warframe and all weapons.

 

-Alternatively, a large chunk of experience could go to the player(s) every time they pass through a tileset based on the number of enemies killed covertely and/or the number of enemies left alive

 

-Enemies should have to see you or at least be on the same tileset before they go for the alarm (too many time did I clear a room just before they reached the alarm, only to have someone three rooms away press one two minutes later.

 

-To make weapons such as daggers more useful, perhaps certain weapons can deal higher stealth kill damage than others, seeing as at present stealth kills are only guarenteed on enemie around level 20. Alternatively, there could be a mod to increase stealth kill damage.

 

-At present, there's really no way to distract enemies without sending them into a frenzy. One option should be that shooting certain objects like barrels or containers (if you're far away enough from the enemies) should cause them to investigate. In addition, warframe abilities like molt and decoy should be capable of luring enemies without alerting them.

 

-This is one I heard from another post, currently most rare mods and drops come from combat, which makes stealth redundant. Lockers and container should have an increased chance at rare loot, so that way stealth players don't miss out. An interesting feature would be that all or most lockers are openable while you are undetected, but will lock down once you're caught, making stealth all the more enticing.

 

-And of course, there just needs to be more incentive at the end of each mission, whether its just a bunch of exp, or a chance to recieve one or more rare mods based on how many rooms you've stealthed your way through. Stealth is fun enough for me to at least try at present, but I hope to see it tweaked to be on par with full blown run n' gun playing.

 

Edit: one more idea that I got from another threat but just want to reenstate is that there needs to be more places for us to hide besides behind a box. You could go Arkham Asylum style and add vents and grates that we can slip into to bypass certain areas for wait in plain sight for enemies to leave themselves vulnerable. You could also add pipes or handholds to walls and ceilings for us to swing and chimmy along, which would both allow for more stealth options as well as more opportunity for parkour tricks.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Paradoxbomb

[Ripentear]

Let me just write a post without reading the thread beside the first post.

 

First of all, if you want to have a game where you can hide in the shadows, you're going to need shadows. Trust me, there's no way around it. Some areas should be less illuminated than others and standing in them should drastically decrease chance of being found by enemies. Varying degrees of darkness, and varying decrease of chance to be found while in them would be nice. Also, give us several ways to get to the objective, through vents, among pipelines below the floor, through secret passages and holes in walls.

 

I'd also like to point out that while making every mission pretty much identical (start here, go to objective while killing absolutely everything in sight for weapon xp, press x on objective, go to extraction point while killing absolutely everything in sight for weapoon xp) and then adding a reward if you do it unseen is one way to handle stealth, there are other ideas worth considering. For example, making missions that are pretty much dedicated to stealth. Stages specially designed to hold many of these shadowy areas and alternative passageways. I believe that making all Deception, Sabotage and Spy missions like that would be most fitting.

 

As for rewards of this... the whole XP system needs to be reworked really, as is, it plain out discourages the use of abilities. And while it still somewhat works in Extermination, Defense and Mobile Defense missions (which should definitely stay the way they are, wanton destruction and mass murder seem to fit them a fair lot), it definitely wouldn't work in stealth missions, which do not encourage large killing sprees... and in fact, should discourage them. Professionals don't leave a mess. The best stealth job is the one where nobody even knew you were ever there. XP and Credits should be awarded simply for stealthily completing the mission, and killing enemies should yield limited or even nullified rewards, giving out appropriate amounts of XP to all weapons and the warframe. Getting caught, letting the enemy raise the alarm at all, could either result in changing the mission to Extermination (like the game often does for us already) and drastically decreasing rewards, or simply ordering the player to abandon the mission and proceeding to the extraction point, also giving him drastically decreased rewards.

 

Speaking of specialized missions, I'll allow myself to go off on a tangent here: speed missions. Let's face it, we've all these cool parkour moves, but no real reason to actually use them, because the entirety of the game right now is pretty much just a cover based shooter with 4 special abilities and a character progression system. Just like you can make missions dedicated to killing everything in sight, and missions dedicated to completing the objective without being seen, you can make missions dedicated to dashing through the level as fast as possible, running across walls, over and under obstacles, anything to get it done as fast as possible. Players are already rushing levels like that just for fun after all, proof that it would be a welcome option. Missions like this would mostly reward the player with XP and credits based on how fast they made it, kills would still matter (we can shoot while sliding and jumping and wallrunning for a reason after all) but not as much as the speed, and they would be more like bonus points. Raid and Capture missions seem to fit this best. In fact, capture missions could become more about chasing the target than just getting to him, pressing e a few times and then pressing x. And again, this distinction would probably require making some rooms made for running through them, walls to run on and obstacles to avoid, just like stealth missions should have shadows.

 

Just my two cents. Hope they're worth something.

 

Edit: I had another idea, not sure if anyone mentioned it before: stealth mods. Warframe mods that make you harder to see, and make enemy detection range smaller. Gun mods that act like silencers, lowering the noise they make. Melee mods that improve stealth attacks. Something that makes bodies disappear faster. Stuff like that.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Ripentear

[Zoike]

on a different note besides xp how bout a silencer mod for snipers and pistol? no?

[RustyNaps]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/75899-stealth-suggestions/

^This is the only thing that really concerns me for stealth.

[whitejackale]

Something that would make stealth very interesting would be to make dead bodies remain on the floor for longer while introducing a way in which to move the body around the room in order to hide it. If an enemy comes upon a dead body it would be stealth game over because they would radio in that an enemy is onboard.

[Oizen]

I feel like there should be some missions that require stealth.

 

 

Or some loot room that will close if you're not stealthy. Given for such ideas AI would have to be improved.

 

I realy dont like how if one grineer witnesses a stealth kill, every single one in the entire facility seems to automatically know about it.

[Nitrobudyn]

I feel like there should be some missions that require stealth.

[...]

My idea from page before:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/3930-stealth-feedback-suggestions-thread/page-40#entry773614

[Psychotoxin]

while i would like to see stuff like gun and frame stealth mods (less noise, less muzzle flash, harder to see) i dislike the idea about having the guy running for the alarm indicated on the map. a good stealth player would always be aware of his/her surroundings, and with the guys taking up to 10 seconds to activate the alarm, it shouldn`t be hard to notice someone running away from you, instead of gunning you or running towards you...

though i would agree that if grineer A has his juggular sliced by me, and grineer B witnesses this, then grineer C (who`s 3 rooms away) shouldn`t know about me, until grineer B raises the alarm (if he manages to not die before that...)

also (mentioned multiple times in this thread):
* Alarms should be resetable. maybe, not using a console, but killing a speciffic grineer unit, you`d take his walkie-talkie and radio in something along the lines of "he`s dead. we got him. i repeat, we got him!". maybe put in a mod, that would allow you to do this (voice modification, that would make you sound like the grineer/corpus), and well.. .the infested never trigger an actual alarm, since they`re a hivemind. thus there might be an infested "node". a mob, that has no atacks, but has a lot of health, and keeps the infested alert to your presence. but they should be always protected, and should be off track, so you must wander about the infested levels.

* As mentioned above - frame and gun mods that support stealth. the trade off could be, that you can`t have a shield enhacing mod along those... maybe even a mod that makes you harder to detect when in shadows (the frame changes color to a darker pallete, and turns off the energy lights.) might even be a mod that causes you to become a blur to distant enemies etc etc. the ideas here are endless...

*the grappling hook idea, that further evolved into the idea to have a kusarigama as a melee. though the grappling hook could be a utility tool, that you could trade for the flashligh (you know, the thing that turns on automatically when the power goes out, or it`s an infested mission). and while on that note, you should be able to toggle your flashlight (though enemies don`t react to your`s yet. or maybe i`ve just not noticed that).

* And definitely stealth routes throughout the level. more ventilation shafts, bars to shimmy along, or hang onto. more parkour throughout the levels (who said, that stealth is slow? you just have to be higher than the average eye-level of the enemy)

* Spy, sabotage and deception should be changed to full stealth missions, that switch to extermination if you`re spotted. maybe even a stealth raid, or stealth capture,  though i agree with Ripentear that raid and capture should be speed missions, instead of generally kill-all or stealth missions. Defense, mob defense and exterminate are good as they are, but maybe the mobile defense could have some bonuses, if you get to the consoles undetected... like, inserting the data packet while undetected, could cause a timed lockdown, that would lessen the ammount of enemies you have to defend against.


my two cents for now...

P.S. Sorry for the wall of text... ^^

Edited July 10, 2013 by Psychotoxin

[liavalenth]

also (mentioned multiple times in this thread):

* Alarms should be resetable. maybe, not using a console, but killing a speciffic grineer unit, you`d take his walkie-talkie and radio in something along the lines of "he`s dead. we got him. i repeat, we got him!". maybe put in a mod, that would allow you to do this (voice modification, that would make you sound like the grineer/corpus), and well.. .the infested never trigger an actual alarm, since they`re a hivemind. thus there might be an infested "node". a mob, that has no atacks, but has a lot of health, and keeps the infested alert to your presence. but they should be always protected, and should be off track, so you must wander about the infested levels.

This right here is what is needed before stealth becomes viable. As long as a single mistake means you failed stealth it is not really an option. It has been mentioned before, as mentioned in the post I am quoting, but it needs to be said until it is in the game.

[SFkenny]

Animations for using alarm panels have been included in a recent update. Woot!

[Ghost9523]

Do we really need flash light on our guns cant we just have night vision or something because if u have a flash light and a enemy sees it  would he know some one is there ?

so could this be looked at because stealth needs to be unheard or unseen so could we get something that would replace the flash lights with something more stealthier like night vision or heat vision or something that only the player can see in dark areas that would maybe be built into the helmet as an extra or something ?

 

Thanks.

[Wrapped]

There are times where I end up using a regular slash and hitting the enemy from behind. It would help if there's a change in camera angle and the character can run up to its enemy when he is looking away when the melee button is pressed.

[VelenoHargreaves]

Multiple Stealth Attacks would be a nice add to... Like, why can't I jump from target to target if they are walking in a patrol group? (Kinda dizzy from tireness here so pardon my english if I typo). That would only work of course if you manage to actually kill the first enemy, then rush to the second and so on.

[SFkenny]

I'd love to see running assassinations like Assassin's Creed III. Shank 'em and keep running.

[whitejackale]

Any stealth bonuses that are given to players must be based on comparative analysis of normal and stealth missions. If it takes longer to accomplish a stealth mission than a normal mission, if it is a lot more difficult to accomplish a stealth mission than a normal mission, or if it means that a player must sacrifice experience, credits, resources, mods, and recipes in order to accomplish a mission in stealth, then it makes perfect sense to give experience, credit, resource, mod, and recipe bonuses to players that choose to complete a mission in stealth.

[arch111]

Agreed, however i would like it to have more effects.

Like find mods or recources otherwise hidden, alternate routes,

and such.

This way, the stealth mission is there as a paramater, if you play normally, stealth is removed.

would add replay value to maps, and give de more ways to make even more dynamic missions.

And as others have said, reward stealth kills at the end of the mission.

[Qu3er]

Attacking enemies in stealth mode deals more damage... right?

Anyway why don't they increase the % of drop rate as well,

Because as others has mentioned, the patience/skills needed to play a stealth mission is just not a norm and it ain't easy

Don't get me wrong, I don't know how to play stealth,

I bet most of us would just spray our guns throughout the mission and kill everything in our way anyway.

I mean its just fair for them to have a bit of reward for their efforts.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Cheers.

[Helljack84]

The "stealthiest" approach i've ever seen is running in with (highlevel) guns blazing and mowing down everyone who goes near the alert buttons...

[Qu3er]

The "stealthiest" approach i've ever seen is running in with (highlevel) guns blazing and mowing down everyone who goes near the alert buttons...

Do check out some of the clips on youtube on how people actually played a whole mission on stealth mode.

using weapons like bow and kunais and dodging sights from the NPCs is actually quite exciting and shows how players are able to be at that caliber.

[Helljack84]

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of a stealthy approach and it can be a ton of fun. I don't want to argue about these points, i like the feel it has to it and on the occasional stealth run it gave me more of a thrill to sneak past five guys than mowing down 50.

But sadly there are far more downsides to a stealth run than just letting good old Sasha (Gorgon) do her thing and get the whole thing done in five minutes while eating cake.

Atm it's just not worth spending that much time for less of a reward in xp, mods, etc.

I'd love to see either a reward for a stealthy approach or more of a punishment than the occasional lockdown (feels more like a punishment for the enemies left in that sector). Like, "hey, the tenno will kill everyone either way. Let's set fire/selfdestruct/flood the room with poison gas" or the like.

[Qu3er]

 

I'd love to see either a reward for a stealthy approach or more of a punishment than the occasional lockdown (feels more like a punishment for the enemies left in that sector). Like, "hey, the tenno will kill everyone either way. Let's set fire/selfdestruct/flood the room with poison gas" or the like.

 

I like how this idea is coming about, like setting up traps and a lockdown that can't use Ciphers and harder combinations, just to make the game up a notch. Because of Mods, some players seemed Godlike. Don't get me wrong, they worked hard for the mods but just to make the game a tit bit harder its quite a good idea.