Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[_Chaser]

sorry, my bad, tested again it's all same. in any case new patrol animations looks interesting, need to test out cons of view for these ones.

[Probta16]

Maybe, it could be a good idea that needs less work than the turn alert off.

 

If there is already two ways that enemies can use the console, implementing one more seems possible.

[sir_deadlock]

Just thought I'd share the topic I started which, while not as well replied to as this one, did have some ideas about stealth in it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/77329-call-off-unitsstealth-recovery/?p=844831

The ideas I liked most were being able to backstab enemies that are focused on looking around walls or just in general leaving their backsides wide open.

 

A proximity timer so even if everybody's alerted, if you stay close enough to a target long enough you can backstab them.

[sir_deadlock]

how about adding a stealh mission type instead of haveing all missions being a stealth mode option that shoud create a more balanced system, just a suggetion, it would also help prevent players who join from just rushing threw an killing everything unstealhly

How about making stealth a viable mechanic instead of making it a focal point?

"but then why would people use it if there's no incentive?"

Looking at the number of responses here, they'd use it because they like stealthing and it's a clean way to get through missions.

 

Making something OP is a good way of making it hated in general situations.

Making something useful but unnoticed is the best way.

For example, your character runs, this is useful.

Would you want your character to gain affinity because they took a step?

Perhaps racing missions where you compete against other players in a Sonic 2 style manner?

*thinks* whoa, wait... actually it might be fun to implement a skating style grind function, but that's a thought for another time and another topic!

More than any kind of special purpose, I just want stealthing to be a practical way to approach a level.

[KaoKill123]

too long: didint read.

whats the point of this system where chances of successfully killing the enemy with [stealth Attack] will decline greatly above level 25++ ?

unless DE:

1) add in new weapons or make Dagger with Stealth Attack ability, against Curpos/Grineer/Infested individually 

2) give us new Mods, one that increase Stealth Attack damage. (but will be useless when all fails)

3) like #2, but implement an new function "Back Stab" only available when player with such weapon behind a enemy.

[_Chaser]

found a bug:

 

quite pissed off

 

1) CAN'T PERFORM STEALTH KILL ON ENEMIES IF THEY ARE IN "PATROL ANIMATION"

 

and it's not the worst.

 

2) you can't kill sawmen LV 1 with stealth animation. charge attack works.

 

stealtha ttacks should completely ignore armor. and this is not a suggestion. this is what you should have done moths ago. 

 

and ofc stealth attacks should deal SIGNIFACANTLY more damage than charged attack.

 

i can one shot sawmen with glaive and i can't do the same thing if i perform stealth kill animation.

 

what the f*ck?

Edited July 30, 2013 by n7snk

[Probta16]

found a bug:

 

quite &!$$ed off

 

1) CAN'T PERFORM STEALTH KILL ON ENEMIES IF THEY ARE IN "PATROL ANIMATION"

 

and it's not the worst.

 

2) you can't kill sawmen LV 1 with stealth animation. charge attack works.

 

stealtha ttacks should completely ignore armor. and this is not a suggestion. this is what you should have done moths ago. 

 

and ofc stealth attacks should deal SIGNIFACANTLY more damage than charged attack.

 

i can one shot sawmen with glaive and i can't do the same thing if i perform stealth kill animation.

 

what the f*ck?

1) Yeah, this sucks.

 

2) Stealth attack already ignore armor but it don't deal elemental damages.

 

I still can wait more for a update only for stealth... what i think is kind hard, i still believe in a 0,1 for stealth.

[_Chaser]

unmodded glaive charged attack vs unmodded glaive stealth attack.

 

stealth attack don't do S#&$

[Probta16]

unmodded glaive charged attack vs unmodded glaive stealth attack.

 

stealth attack don't do S#&$

Maybe a bug, i can't play now to confirm.

 

Tested, my unmodded Scindo stealth attack ignore armor.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Probta16

[Ranadaine]

it's a bug. but a strange one.

if you use stealth attack on enemy with shield, it will only damage shield, even if it's like 5 hp.

[_Chaser]

yeah sorry, i ment shield.

[CeigeNorth]

nope! this would turn WF into a generic shooter. we should be able to shoot out lights and S#&$, to have a game of shadow arrangement, and then sneak through the shadows, without being detected...

YES I LOVE IT that would be perfect

[YsWolf]

I think my biggest problem with stealth combat is that its not possible if you have a sentinel.

Not because they can see the sentinel but because the sentinel shoots when im sneaking on people. Would be great if the AI would wait for me to start shooting something before it starts to open fire.+

I hate when my bonus mission is stealth because I know its not possible if wyrm is with me.

 

I wouldn't mind having a "hold fire" or "fire at will" stance or behaviour option for my sentinel.

[_Chaser]

sentiels get you spoted like if you are standing, so if you want to sneak up, go without sentiels.

 

until DE will fix it, only loki and ash will be viable stealth warframes.

[Probta16]

Shields never bothered me. I use freeze elemental mod and kill enemies that have shield with my charge attack. I can even do 2 or 3 (if needed) charge attacks without get detected because the freeze slow the enemy reaction.

 

I think they needed to make stealth attack have the effect and damages of elemental mods since charge attacks are stronger. Unless they buff the stealth attack power, making it ignore shield is a alternative for it.

 

Do i was the only one that hated the way that your view change when performing the stealth attack?

[_Chaser]

if you can't kill enemy LV 1 with unupgraded weapon with stealth attack it's something really #*($%%@ up with stealth.

[Paradoxbomb]

I'm starting to wonder why there's a chance for stealth kills to fail anyway. I mean the fact that they pretty much don't work on anything level 20+ makes them completely useless and a near guarentee that you WILL be caught. I say stealth kills should be an Insta-kill on standard enemies, regardless of their level. It would actually encourage stealth late game since you wouldn't have to waste time fighting 30 waves of level 60+ Grineer, yet it wouldn't be unbalanced since you would have to be patient and stealthy, and it still wouldn't be effective on heavy units, meaning you still have to sneak past those.

 

At the very least give daggers an extremely high damage bonus on stealth/unsuspected attacks, it would give them a niche and a reason to use them.

[Probta16]

I'm starting to wonder why there's a chance for stealth kills to fail anyway. I mean the fact that they pretty much don't work on anything level 20+ makes them completely useless and a near guarentee that you WILL be caught. I say stealth kills should be an Insta-kill on standard enemies, regardless of their level. It would actually encourage stealth late game since you wouldn't have to waste time fighting 30 waves of level 60+ Grineer, yet it wouldn't be unbalanced since you would have to be patient and stealthy, and it still wouldn't be effective on heavy units, meaning you still have to sneak past those.

 

At the very least give daggers an extremely high damage bonus on stealth/unsuspected attacks, it would give them a niche and a reason to use them.

Agreed, DE look without time for even a stealth minimal change . -.

[_Chaser]

goodbye to stealth?

 

"We’re removing Raid (it’s too similar to Capture as well as it is not a very popular game type).

In Raid’s place: Timed Survival-esque mode. You’ll be in a ship or location and must survive for as long as you can.

Scoring Systems for missions is also coming

We are changing Spy and Deception as well. They will be completely revamped.

In Spy (Intel) you will enter “Cephalon”, an Orokin Mainframe, and you’ll have to attack the virtual space.

In Deception (counter-intel) it will be an escort with an “Envoy” which is the Lotus in an high-tech drone. Although we know Escort missions are generally hated, the Envoy will help by boosting players. Staying in range of the Envoy benefits the group.

What happens to Void Raid keys? They’ll be changed under the hood, they’ll still work."

 

from stream on Aug 11th

[Probta16]

 

goodbye to stealth?

 

"We’re removing Raid (it’s too similar to Capture as well as it is not a very popular game type).

In Raid’s place: Timed Survival-esque mode. You’ll be in a ship or location and must survive for as long as you can.

Scoring Systems for missions is also coming

We are changing Spy and Deception as well. They will be completely revamped.

In Spy (Intel) you will enter “Cephalon”, an Orokin Mainframe, and you’ll have to attack the virtual space.

In Deception (counter-intel) it will be an escort with an “Envoy” which is the Lotus in an high-tech drone. Although we know Escort missions are generally hated, the Envoy will help by boosting players. Staying in range of the Envoy benefits the group.

What happens to Void Raid keys? They’ll be changed under the hood, they’ll still work."

 

 

from stream on Aug 11th

 

 

Yeah, i thought that at first time.

 

I play more stealth in capture missions and corpus ship. In corpus ship, the artifact room of raid was kinda a gamble, RNG, if tried without any skill. Entering that small hallway, when the door open there is more of the times have a enemy that can spot you or other times, there are too many enemies and they never had a blind spot.

 

About the other modes, i don't have nothing relevant. Played sometimes and could do it easily.

 

And i haven't undestood the new spy mission. The new deception seems impossible to do in a stealth way. R.I.P stealth. I think they really are thinking in create a stealth type missions.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Probta16

[Ranadaine]

So this is just my humble opinion, which I already posted as a separate post (yep, call me dumb, I deserve it).

 

You just can't be stealthy anywhere except for the lowest-leveled planets, it makes no sense. Really, I suppose that "space ninja" concept should favor stealthier gameplay instead of direct confrontation with the whole enemy base. Or, at least, give player a chance to use creativity and stealth, not only run'n'gun skills and superior mods.

 

I think that stealth can be made viable with just 2 changes, which are really not so hard to implement.

1. Stealth melee (those sweet animations with prompt) should always kill. No matter what health, shield and armor enemy has. Or not always kill(so you won't be able kill a high-level ancient with Skana), but inflict a really high damage.

2. There should be an additional multiplier for hits (both melee and ranged) on an unalerted enemy (probably, only when hit from behind and sides). And that multiplier must be significant; IMO it should be high enough to one-hit any (except for highest) level basic enemies (lancer-crewman-walker/leaper/crawler) with moderate to high mods, while still forcing you to sneak in for melee kills on tougher ones.

2.1. Probably, adding some kind of "silencer" mod will also help to adapt various weapons to stealthier (while not completely stealthy) gameplay.

 

In my opinion, it will help to improve the game in a lot of ways, while not taking anything away. Let me explain.

1. This changes fit well in the whole "space ninja" concept.

2. This changes will not remove or lower the player's capability of shooting everyone's heads off in any way.

3. This changes will make stealth a really viable option on par with the previous one, while not making it OP. You still need to take line of sight and enemies' routes into account, don't allow anyone to see the corpses and plan a lot while moving from tile to tile (you are still extremely exposed while moving through doors). It will add another layer of challenge for end-game content also, because stealth gameplay in random levels is much more interesting than a simple aim and shoot in the same conditions. With further improvements to AI it will become even more interesting.

4. This changes will give to frames like Ash, Loki and Banshee (and, probably, Nyx) their long-awaited niche as quite stealthy and agile frames that are able to complete a mission without breaking in guns blazing. It is possible now, but only on low-leveled enemies.

5. This changes will make Dread and Paris usable in end-game, not just a sweet-looking toys for low-level content.

 

Are there any flaws in my logic?

 

P.S. Yep, that's probably a bad way because of going along with the powercreep, not adding a different mechanic. But it's still something.

[Probta16]

I think that stealth can be made viable with just 2 changes, which are really not so hard to implement.

1. Stealth melee (those sweet animations with prompt) should always kill. No matter what health, shield and armor enemy has. Or not always kill(so you won't be able kill a high-level ancient with Skana), but inflict a really high damage.

2. There should be an additional multiplier for hits (both melee and ranged) on an unalerted enemy (probably, only when hit from behind and sides). And that multiplier must be significant; IMO it should be high enough to one-hit any (except for highest) level basic enemies (lancer-crewman-walker/leaper/crawler) with moderate to high mods, while still forcing you to sneak in for melee kills on tougher ones.

2.1. Probably, adding some kind of "silencer" mod will also help to adapt various weapons to stealthier (while not completely stealthy) gameplay.

I agreed that stealth attack need buff. Mods should affect it and it should be more powerful at least for some weapons.

 

Silencer is a good idea too. Most of the time, i play stealth solo. In solo, only the weapons you use gain exp. If not with a primary and secondary stealth weapons, there is no exp for it.

 

But just it don't make stealth viable to me. The time that stealth take and the reward is not worth. I would still playing it for fun but would have to level up my gear in defense missions.

 

Hotfix haven't included a fix for being unable to stealth kill enemies while they are just standing doing... i don't know what. And the time for it should be shortened. I see a lot of enemies just standing face to me in the middle of the door so i have to wait he goes back to his patrol route to kill him, what wouldn't be a problem if it don't take 30 seconds. Stealth was a slow play style, now is slug play style.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Probta16

[illya.]

I think we should be able to cut the lights in the room we enter. Like a control panel where we can hack and shut the lights out for that room. detection range is shortened, and we get to have awesome night vision! And All snipers should be silenced T~T

[Hixlysss]

To be completely honest, to put stealth into this game and for it to be enjoyable would be just way too much work. It would be a massive, MASSIVE overhaul.

 

New 'hidden' paths from one point to another, I.E. Vents to crawl through to avoid combat. The AI would have to be tweaked in numerous ways. Reworking the bosses to support stealth play. Reworking each warframe to be a viable stealth option. More stealth weaponry.

 

That might not look like much on paper, but the sheer amount of content that goes in to that would be very extensive.

 

IMO, stealth should be player based, not group based, which would be a difficult thing to code. Say you're in a full group, two nova's, a loki and ash. The two nova's and ash run as "Distraction" team as Loki sneaks around through the vents, not seen, hacking data and ect. Sure the 3 players get their benefits for kills and ect, but the Loki would need to get an equal score for not being seen/reported and hacking/aquiring/assinating the target.

 

That would be one of the KEY features for any sort of stealth gameplay, with the others being level design, AI, and movement.

[_Chaser]

To be completely honest, to put stealth into this game and for it to be enjoyable would be just way too much work. It would be a massive, MASSIVE overhaul.

 

New 'hidden' paths from one point to another, I.E. Vents to crawl through to avoid combat. The AI would have to be tweaked in numerous ways. Reworking the bosses to support stealth play. Reworking each warframe to be a viable stealth option. More stealth weaponry.

 

That might not look like much on paper, but the sheer amount of content that goes in to that would be very extensive.

 

IMO, stealth should be player based, not group based, which would be a difficult thing to code. Say you're in a full group, two nova's, a loki and ash. The two nova's and ash run as "Distraction" team as Loki sneaks around through the vents, not seen, hacking data and ect. Sure the 3 players get their benefits for kills and ect, but the Loki would need to get an equal score for not being seen/reported and hacking/aquiring/assinating the target.

 

That would be one of the KEY features for any sort of stealth gameplay, with the others being level design, AI, and movement.

only things required are:

a) stealth reward

b) patchfinding fix

c) stealth attack damage buff.

d) spawning less enemies if you are undetected.

e) reduce amount of choke points.

 

i have no clue from where you even get assumptions you wrote up here, but may be you should actually try to play stealthy here in wf before coming up with "ideas". from what i see you never even tried to play stealthy.