January 30Th: Community Hot Topics!

[Least_Devotee]

Frankly Overtake was too damn hard. If you didn't have a Nyx or Frost actually completing it was - difficult on a good day. And I didn't use any weapon myself after getting the target moving so restricting the weapons we could bring was fairly pointless.

[Jin_Lightning]

Telegraphing Enemy Attacks

 

Yes please! This would pretty much quell any complaints of certain enemy types insta-killing us in an unfair way!

All sniper units, Bombards, Napalms, and so on.

 

Tar MOAs already have a telegraph, visual and audio, but I won't say no to more.

 

Also,  grenade indicator would be most helpful, as these are insanely powerful.

 

-Jin

[Bibliothekar]

Conclave points exist for a reason. Use them instead.

But since that reason is PvP, not PvE, they are even worse as gatekeeper than Mastery. Mods, that are only useful against AI but not other players, have just one point, while heat and electricity (which give Radiation, which is awesome against Tenno) have more conclave points than the other two elements.

 

I just noticed, that the first question is a bit strangely worded: "In addition to supporting 8 players, what else do you expect/want from Warframe raids?"

After all my experience with this game since the start of OB, the things I'm expecting DE to put into raids aren't exactly the things I want DE to put into raids ...

Edited February 2, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[(PSN)SilverKarasu]

But since that reason is PvP, not PvE, they are even worse as gatekeeper than Mastery. Mods, that are only useful against AI but not other players, have just one point, while heat and electricity (which give Radiation, which is awesome against Tenno) have more conclave points than the other two elements.

 

I just noticed, that the first question is a bit strangely worded: "In addition to supporting 8 players, what else do you expect/want from Warframe raids?"

After all my experience with this game since the start of OB, the things I'm expecting DE to put into raids aren't exactly the things I want DE to put into raids ...

 

It's true that conclave points aren't equal for PvP. But setting an average conclave requirement will ensure those that get in have a full loadout modded to a point. 

 

I don't do PVP but my PVE loadouts fully modded and forma'd up exceed 1200. My current one sits at a solid 1400.

 

Because Conclave is dependant on your gear I tink it's the right move. Anything else and people can do like T$ and try to just bring 1 good weapon. What if there are secondary/melee mechanics or requirements in the raid? What if the lack of a good Sentinel and Weapon makes DPS and Defensive survival lower than prefered. 

 

Conclave is our only gear ranking. So I say use it. 1200 is a good limit. That's will ensure people have at least most slots in their loadout fit well.

[Kotommi]

Raids:

 

Current votes reflect my opinions well, but I want to make it very clear that timelocked (weekly and such) raids would be absolutely terrifying to my hoarder collector self. So no timed raids.

 

Tactical Alert:

It was great, save for quite restricted warframe selection.

 

Bows:

 

Bows are great and fun weapons to use (most satisfying weapon mechanic in the game). What I'd like to see being added is a sort of "hidden" feature, very much in the fashion of ragdolling enemies. Something that you could imagine a space arrow fired from a space bow do.

[Rainofgod]

for the raid, NO RESTRICTION ON GEAR, MASTERY RANK OR THE NEED FOR TOP TIER GEAR.

the first limits players with few slots, the second forces players to farm mastery, and that is not everyones cup of tea, however a minimum MR of 2-5 is debatable.

PLease do not force me to choose between a few weapons that are strong enough, Boltor p, etc. Yes a decent weapon will help, a braton, or something like that shouldn't cut it either, however let people experiment...

And simply use raid specific gear (like turrets, or environment to damage the boss), so that hat 'OP'gear shouldn't ruin the balance...

 

Btw the Idea of raids having a large part of RNG in it, differing sub bosses, tiles, enemie pools, etcetera would be fun (make sure that it is balanced well otherwise there will be issues with abandoning mission till you get the easiest setup)

 

Overtake I 'cheated' myself too with frost, if it was another mission type it could work but hijack was just not the right one, you couldn't leave the thing behind, because it got destroyed in seconds, you couldn't simply stay there and defend, since you couldn't defend properly and would be overwhelmed in second...

[Bibliothekar]

Conclave is our only gear ranking. So I say use it. 1200 is a good limit. That's will ensure people have at least most slots in their loadout fit well.

Well, as I said before, I have a few loadouts (all weapons maxed and fully modded) that rank at around 900 CR. I'll look it up tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure my Trin is one of them. So with a 1200 CR as minimum for raids, my friends would be without a healer. Doubt that they'll find that good ...

 

Edited February 2, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[(XBOX)Mephisto75]

Loot Loot Loot, also will the party size increase be across the board or only raid parties.

 

New to Warframe play on XBone and this is some exciting stuff

[Shy0]

I'm sorry DE, but the feedback you are getting on the Overtake alert is quite misleading, partly because of the inherently self-selecting nature of this poll, partly because you are not asking the right questions.

 

Was it easy or just right? Yes, if you played it as a Frost or Nyx alert.

 

Was it easy if you played it as a thrown weapon alert?

 

No.

 

Every successful playthrough of it that I participated in or heard off constituted of a Frost or Nyx permanently sitting on top of the vehicle and spamming their defensive abilities. With the rest just carried through (or at least a Trinity supporting them) and not even using their throwing weapons.

 

Thrown weapons were not the key to win that alert, they failed as a theme, they were merely a ticket to get in.

 

All those Nullifiers succeeded in stopping us from just slaughtering the enemies with offensive frame abilities, but it still left the issue of us needing to defend a far too fragile defensive objective from all those shooting enemies.

 

This is not the situation where players can have fun experimenting with unusual weapon restriction, it is a situation where they will spam defensive abilities of a few suitable frame. And thus set the difficulty level high enough with "it was easy" feedback that make it impossible for others to complete without using similar cheesing strategy.

 

Dear, DE, I'm all for weapon restriction missions to force us to use something else than a few top tier weapons all the time, but if you actually want us to have fun experimenting with weapons and strategies we would normally not use, then please select a mission type actually suitable for something like that.

 

If Overtake had not been a defensive mission, then, while many players would have still cheesed through it, you could also actually have seen parties actually playing the alert as intended, with actually making good use of their thrown weapons, actually having fun with the restrictions in the way it was intended.

 

^this. all my this. was trying to say this in my previous post but i'm eloquent fail.

 

was doing a bit of thinking about raids.

 

re limits/level requirement for raids: DE, i don't know of your plans for the raids, like whether it is purely high-level/endgame content or if there will be some starter raids for beginner/intermediate players. one way of gating it without causing too much pain would be to make raids unlocked through completing the solar system/planets, and make it a requirement for every party member.

 

pros:

- will make completing the solar system/planets mean something

- people who want a challenge can have lower conclave ratings if they want

- doesn't necessitate mastery rank grinding to enjoy endgame content

- no grind wall like infested salad v (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NONE OF THIS. OR I'LL COME TO CANADA AND.. AND.. I'LL DECAF ALL YOUR COFFEE! AND TEA. UM.. YEAH.)

- will reduce the taxi spam in chat when there's an alert worth something

- *wishful thinking* by making people actually play the various game modes, maybe the skill level will go up a bit

 

cons:

- players gonna play

- haters gonna hate

- heart-breakers gonna break

- fakers gonna fake

- *ahem* sorry, i meant i can't really think of many cons

 

an alternative could be requiring having all the "saviour of x planet" achievements, but given the grind behind vay hek, i don't wanna die so young. angry tenno are scary.

 

in other words, gate raids behind "playing the game", rather than behind xp farm or "you no forma enuf" or "too bad you have a life and need to work/go out/go on holiday/be ill when there's a timed raid on".

 

re infrastructure/performance: some people just can't host. ever. if you're increasing the player limit to 8, PLEASE give us the option to specify if we want to host or join games. i have a decent pc and connection, so i would rather host than join a laggy game where everyone is teleporting everywhere and can't do anything. on the other hand, if you're hosting on your servers, please make sure you're ready on launch day or there will be lots of decaf in canada. maybe i'll even de-alcohol your beer. yes. that will be my attempt at appearing threatening.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Shy0

[DrMeowmix]

Raid Expectations:

(this is what I expect, not necessarily what I want)
Puzzles: This is pretty straightforward. I expect puzzles, of varying difficulty, some of which may require the group to split up. My only concern regarding puzzles is how they will be randomized/different every time. Solving a puzzle that's a real brain tickler once and then automatically knowing how to do it within 10 seconds every time it subsequently pops up is no bueno. That's no fun and raids would take a turn for the grindier

Special Boss Mechanics: This is something I have to applaud you guys on. It's been really cool seeing boss reworks and the interesting mechanics the bosses have. I remember old school Vay Hek. That was cool even then, his rework added to the lore while making his boss fight more fun (in my opinion). I'd like to see the funky mechanics taken a step further, like in SWTOR, the Eternity Vault raid bosses are decent examples. The first boss is a droid that's essentially a DPS race with a "23 separate weapon systems" nuke that is avoidable only by breaking line of sight (or by running in between his legs). The second boss, (Gharj) is fairly straightforward as well. Tank him with his back to the rest of the group. Off tank and 2 dps deal with adds. He also stomps the ground occasionally, sinking the platform you were fighting on into the lava and forcing you to move. The last stage of the final boss to the raid is called "The Infernal one", and he starts throwing statues at you with telekinesis. You have to force him to accidentally hit himself with the statues in order to make him vulnerable. I think you can do better, though. I'm really looking forward to how you plan on implementing these in your raids.

Level Restrictions/Gear Progression: Well, I don't like it, but it's completely necessary. Say if we go to hypothetically assassinate the Grineer Queens or the Corpus Board, we don't want bright-eyed Johnny Tenno with his sparsely modded Mk1-Braton and dull Skana leading the charge. Just be... careful I guess, with the level gate or gear restriction. Too low, and we'll have groups filled with n00bs that can't complete it. Too high, and the content will rarely be played. The current conclave system might work as a drop in solution, but a minimum mastery rank requirement might also be in order. I don't want to play with someone who bought a Soma Prime from other players out the gate but is clueless as to how to use it well.

Raid Exclusive Rewards: You know how in WoW when a raid is cleared for the first time, the party who cleared it gets announced globally? They get a "server first" clear. It would be incredible if this was applicable to raids. You'd get a lot of people who couldn't do it whining incessantly, but raids are meant to be very difficult. Also, shiny items, exclusive weapons and mods maybe? (a la SWTOR if you wanted a purple lightsaber, you had to get it through raids, and the lightsaber and all of it's components are bound to you on equip)

Weekly Lockout: Again, not what I want, but what I expect. In order to stop incessant farming by veteran players and thus flooding the market with all the shiny new raid exclusives, (if they will be able to be traded) there needs to be a limit of how many times you can complete the raid within a certain certain time period. That's just par for the course.

 

Raid Bosses:

Team Coordination: Raid bosses would be as boring as math class if you could simply bum rush them and wear their health down. I expect spacing, tanking, and aggro to all play assigned roles, and would like to see some interesting things thrown in regarding coordination. Like dropping stalagmites on a giant space cave monster's head will stun it, or something.

Speshul b0s$ M3ch@n1x: I think I already touched on this above.

Boss Time Limit: Soft time limit. Enrage timer will mean it's still possible, just very difficult (i.e: tryhard mode)

Boss Phases: Lephantis is a good example. For an outside source, look into The Infernal One or The Terror from Beyond from SWTOR.

 

Enemies Telegraphing: Only certain enemies should telegraph. How would a Grineer Lancer telegraph that he's about to smack you with his elbow? That would be silly. However, Nullifiers telegraphing would be tricky, especially in the void, as you can barely see them in their bubbles sometimes. Nullifiers need some minor tweaks all around, but we can discuss that another time.

 

Void Rewards Outside of Void: We hear Grineer radio transmissions about "transporting forma with a questionable passage visa" all the time (I think the Grineer are feeding us a false transmissions loop, by the way. We should look into that). The Corpus and Grineer both harvest ancient Orokin technology, the Corpus more so. I don't see why we can't re-seize our stolen void assets from our enemies. Also, idea: Orokin Derelict drops slightly modified "corrupt prime" parts, similar in functionality to corrupted mods in that they are more powerful, but have a large drawback to them. That would be neat. Implement. DE pls.

 

Overtake Tactical Alert: It was refreshingly challenging and required a bit of thought to complete. You had to protect a very vulnerable mobile platform while protecting yourself and your teammates from very deadly enemies with very limited weaponry. There were many people complaining that it was "too hard", but it really wasn't. Yeah, the thrown weapons bounced off the Nullifier shields, but there were ways to counter that, slide melee being the easiest. Also Glaivesplosion happens when you throw your glaive and channel while it's in mid air. ALSO thrown weapons will seek out nearby enemies if you hit an enemy with a throw. Warframe powers are also a thing. Teamwork, some forethought, and power synergy were the way to complete this alert. It was difficult and a tad frustrating until you figured it out, and even then it was still difficult. I also almost passed out laughing with the following alert: "We made sure you could do this one." and the alert had nothing but drones that do no damage. That was hilarious.

 

Overtake Impressions: Better than others in that it wasn't a tac alert with "Exterminate everything and don't get hit lol also there's more of this enemy type than normal". I would like to see tac alerts mesh a little better with the Warframe universe. Like, why are we only using glaives against Nullifiers? Did our ships get shot down on the way to the Corpus shipwreck and our weapons were damaged? Lotus just said "hey there's some Corpus goodies in this shipwreck go get them." then the UI is like "Thrown Weapons only lul". It's like... huh? Why only thrown weapons? What happened to my Trusty Tiberon™? I'd just like a little bit of an explanation as to the "why" when it comes to weapon restrictions like that.

 

Hype for Console Tac Alert: PC player, so no opinion. Get hyped though, Astral Twilight is super fun \o/

 

Bows...?: Pros: They are very strong, some have red crit potential, they are silent, they are accurate.

Cons: They suffer against crowds due to charge time and you know, being a bow. Their drawbacks balance them well with other weapons, for the most part.

 

Moar Bows...?: Yas. Cernos Prime please. A slash based Tenno bow that isn't Dread please. Dragonslayer Greatbow please.

Edited February 3, 2015 by DrMeowmix

[Grenneloch]

Overtake woulda been fine IMO if it hadn't been restricted to thrown melees. I was lucky I even had 1 of them at 30 cause they're really just lackluster in the majority of the ones available.

[Ailith]

Archwizard pretty much hit the nail on the head:

 

I find it somewhat interesting that reactions to the Nekros changes aren't on here, but I suppose there's already a dev workshop about that...

 

Raid Expectations

They should definitely require some finesse and coordination between party members. If this is Warframe's version of end-game, it should involve a test of ability rather than just focus on how well-modded your loadout is from the mods you were lucky enough to find or buy.

Note that I do not mean repeating the tired mechanic of "focus on this tiny spot on the boss' armor, then wait out his invincibility and repeat", nor "every enemy should be able to oneshot me if I don't perform the macarena while engaging".

 

Telegraphed Attacks

To be fair, the more dangerous enemies do have a telegraph. Mutalist Moas (though it isn't nearly long enough in my opinion), Ancients, Grineer heavies, Drahk Masters (which is... actually perfectly telegraphed)...

Personally, I don't see the issue of Nullifiers being that their sniper rifles are powerful, just that their defenses are too strong (especially when they're also Arctic Eximi) and restrict you to certain weapons, making it difficult to retaliate. Either you get inside their bubble and expose yourself at point-blank, or you stay at range and open yourself to attack while you focus them down. Lotus help you if you're using, say, Nova and Opticor, or Loki and Paris Prime, or... really any non-tank who's not using an automatic or high fire-rate rifle.

 

It's unnecessary to have both. Perhaps the shield's size can be reduced by shooting into it, but it shouldn't completely block bullets if it already blocks abilities.

Failing that, have some reward for taking the time to pop the bubble, like an explosive effect that harms both the Nullifier and anyone within range of its initial field based on the damage the shield blocked.

 

Void Rewards

Let's not beat around the bush - we all know the average player's main issue with the Void is dilution. The rewards we want to see gone the most are the ones we see the most of while hunting for that final part; keys, credit caches, Fusion Cores, resources, Forma - common Prime parts stopped being a real issue with the addition of Ducats. 

You can seriously go 40 minutes in T4 Survival and not see any Prime parts at all. That's when you know dilution has gone too far.

 

On the subject of Ducats, I think a lot of players were dismayed to find that they couldn't purchase any Void parts from the Void Trader, just unique gear. Even just being able to buy specific keys for extra attempts at the mission you've been grinding without any luck would've been one-up. There's not really any fallback in case you don't get the item you need, other than prayer and a two hour grind for Take 2.

 

Overtake TA

I'm probably in the minority, but I particularly enjoyed Overtake. Up until this point, most Tactical Alerts have been "pick your most Conclave-efficient loadout (worth noting that a PvP measurement is not a good way to measure PvE effectiveness) and monotonously run the node to completion on Public". This one encouraged players to think outside the box with strategies and coordinate their efforts.

... Of course, my view may be somewhat tainted by the fact that I completed it in 2 runs.

Bows are in a pretty good spot, though they need more diversity (design, damage types, effects [plasma explosions?]) and usability. I know they're slow to counteract their immense (crit) power, but that means they're really slow due to how you need to build them. In general combat, they're far less practical than guns unless you gimp their power by adding firing/reload speed mods. Maybe the underlying problem is with crit-based weapons, in that you need to build them around that stat to be effective.

 

Overtake was only difficult for the fact that I was essentially restricted to using Mag in order to succeed (solo). Still, I beat it in my first two runs with a Rank 4 Kestrel due to restores and specters. Future content shouldn't rely on "cheesing" with such tactics though. Funnily, I think my biggest problem with the alert is that I didn't care for the reward since I had never used a throwing weapon until that point. The only reason I completed it was to add to my badge.

 

The only other thing I'd like to add is that we should be able to solo raid content, emphasizing Arch's point of making the missions balanced around skill, not gear/invincibility stages/enemy damage, etc. I don't want to be locked into having a minimum party size larger than 1 for numerous reasons, including latency, party availability, self-satisfaction of conquering such a feat solo.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Ailith

[Innocent_Flower]

Dragon cernos please. 

[VentiGlondi]

Telegraphing attacks

 

I think this is less "Enemies should telegraph attacks" and more "Attacks with certain effects need to be telegraphed, period."

 

When an ability is a guaranteed stun, it should be telegraphed and avoidable.

Heavy gunners do that, shockwave moas do that, scorpions and commanders don't.

 

Also, any ability capable of instantly killing a Tenno should be telegraphed.

[DeVieEtMort]

...

 

Bows

Two of the source threads for this topic request new bows, while the third discusses the power of bows compared to sniper rifles. How do you think bows compare to other weapon types? Do you use bows often? How do bows compare to sniper rifles (which, arguable, share a similar niche)?  What changes, if any, would make you want to use bows more? Is there a specific style of bow you’d like to see (a corpus bow, perhaps)? 

 

 

 

      By the way that this was worded, the goal is to make people play bows more? And in addition to that, the citation of comparing bows to sniper rifles implies a desire to make the bows better than snipers? And joining these 2 statements, the implication is to make the small population who play this weapon niche play more bow? o.o (I might be a little off here..)

 

      Seriously? o.o

      Why bring more light on snipers? Bows are more fine than snipers are....

[BlazeJefferson]

1) What I expect from raids: I don't want it to take 1.5+ hours to complete one run since I have other things to do in life. I want the raids to not have a time limit and to be tied into the lore so that if they are really fun and challenging, it's worth replaying. This also allows new players to do the raids instead of miss out on them.

 

2) What I expect from raid bosses: I don't want bosses to be simple bullet sponges. I want it to take skill to beat them, not just lots of damage. I don't want quicktime events.

 

5) The Overtake tactical altert was: The difficulty was right with players dying sometimes. What was too easy were the mechanics to beat the mission. It was possible to use some energy restores and spam Frosts snow globe. I would prefer if it wasn't as simple as spamming snow globe to beat the mission.

[Pazgabear]

Just posting to explain my opinion on the Overtake TA.

 

Looking back at it, I just wasn't prepared for this, I hopped in thinking it would be no different from the other alerts. When I saw the "Thrown Melee only", I was like "Meh", but then those blue bubbles of doom showed up, and I knew crying wouldn't do any good.

It forced me to think outside the game for a bit, if I wanted to finish the alert, I needed to change my way of playing, because spamming Radial Disarm or rushing head on with Iron Skin wasn't going to help me this time.

 

It wasn't very good tough, since all you needed to do was standing on the rover to spam other skills like Snow Globe or Absorb, but it's still a step in the good direction

 

As for the restriction, I think it would be better if you forced a custom (weapons) loadout on the players, not everyone's got a thrown melee in its inventory, and I saw many people rushing the kestrel just to take part in it

[SojournerWrath]

I don't stop by the forums often, but when I do, it's to post an opinion I feel very strongly about... This one is about core game design, especially for shooters.

 

 

Nothing drags a player out of a fight more than meatshields. When these raids come out, I suggest being VERY careful on simply adding HP to make the boss more difficult.

 

For example, if a boss is easier than you (DE) want it to be, there are two options. The lazy way of "Let's just multiply it's HP!" and the RIGHT way of "Let's think of new mechanics we can implement for this boss to make it more interesting and difficult to fight". Could be anything from coordinated attacks on multiple weakpoints, to disabling the boss's attacks and firing them back at the boss. Obviously there are times to also add HP because you made a boss too squishy, but I have faith you know when these times are.

[XxDeadlockerxX]

Diversify the bosses, I hope the tick bosses don't apply to all of them. XD, that would be sort of predictable, I think only certain bosses should have phases, and just make multiple interesting mechanics for the mini-boss fights. About the phase changes, make them only change the mechanics of the boss fight, don't just put +1 damage or +1 Defense for that one phase.

[XxDeadlockerxX]

It would still be nice if you were able to solo/duo/trio a raid, finish it, and return to Ordis while walking away from an explosion like the bad***es us space ninjas truly are, maybe even with shades on. "I'm here to kick &#! and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum"

[Kracken]

the biggest problem of the Overtake tactical alert was unequal (unbalanced) spawn rate from mission to mission.

for me the first mission was pace of a cake - we saw only 50 mobs on that mission.

But on the next 4... we saw 50 mobs on the first turn... it was like "hell no... we aren't gonna make it".. the 6th mission was more balanced as the enemy were not spawning it that big quantities on one spot.

[Brynslustafir]

My biggest problem with overtake had nothing to do with difficulty. For me the problem was that Overtake wasn't enjoyable. Standing in place spamming snow globes and energy restores is not my definition of fun. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Plasmaface

[Drejzer]

Raid:

  bosses:

Big, multi-staged, requiring( or at least favouring) cooperation

 maps:

Big (maybe like the original Excavation maps or bigger)

With Puzzles and minibosses and unique enemies...

( On a side note... I encourage you to check out DiabolusUrsus' Topic: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/354102-dark-sector-badlands-expanding-the-foundations/ )

 

 

  Bows:

 Hell

YES!

 

  Rewards:

That "neutron bomb" blowing up in the void seems Interesting...

 

 Overtake...

Ouch, it hurt, but, on the other hand, It gave me so much satisfaction after beating it!

Edited February 3, 2015 by Drejzer

[(PSN)THREEKLAW]

JUST PLEASE MAKE THE RAIDS WORTHWHILE.   There's other games that RNG you to death.  Nothing will kill my interest more than a long drawn out raid that rewards you with the same thing you got last time, or even worse, nothing worthwhile at all.  I don't mind farming in the void, but if I invest my time in a raid, I want some clear cut rewards.  I do not want to do some long drawn out mission trying to get one specific piece of gear to drop.  Make it like tactical alerts with clear rewards for levels of engagement/performance.  DO make it interesting, complex and hard.  Make us earn it, but please no RNG.  

[(PSN)THREEKLAW]

And yes, I agree with not just adding a ton of HP to bosses.  That's terribly boring.  There's another space shooter that's out right now where the harder the boss is, the more hp it has.  It is in my opinion, the opposite of fun.  Instead I'd rather have precision shooting on weak spots, or maybe coordinated attacks where one Tenno creates a diversion so the other Tenno can shoot at a hidden weak spot- that's interesting.  Just throwing bullets at an enemy and slowly wearing them down is only tedious.  Make bosses smart, but make it so that a well coordinated team can take them down in a reasonable amount of time, quickly even.  For me, this would define a raid: that the players involved would all have to do their part and work together well, using our unique abilities.

Anything else and we'll just see the biggest guns and the toughest frames on every raid, and raids will be just as boring as those other games.  That's not Warframe.