Archwing - Please Put Us In Space Already?

[aynn]

I wish archwing maps were smaller and the enemies bigger/different

[KittyDarkling]

I wish archwing maps were smaller and the enemies bigger/different

 

No... just... NO

 

Why would you want this??

[rockscl]

No... just... NO

 

Why would you want this??

actualy, i would like to have giant ships as normal encounters, dog fighting is ok, but they are too small to feel their design

[NickBoay]

Let me start out by saying that I like Archwing, I feel like it has so much potential. However...

I honestly don't feel like I'm in space. Ignoring all the very earth-like atmosphere oxygen-fueled sound effects and particle effects still behaving like there's gravity... the main issue I think that needs fixing is the way the camera/aiming still behaves like there's gravity.

There is still an up and down direction/orientation while in AW missions. I feel like I'm flying around in a space-themed room that just had the floor removed and is now 100% skybox and props.

It's not just an immersion-breaking thing, this is a pretty big deal and it affects gameplay. For example, I can't properly continue to aim at targets when they fly over or under as the aiming and camera still behave like there's a limit to that based on restrictions that don't make sense in the vacuum of space.

By allowing players to aim everywhere they want with no restriction it will not only bump up the gameplay but make the game more visually spectacular as players can become ‘upside down’ in relation to other objects, enemies and players. Yes it will be a little bit disorientating but that's what space combat is all about! I can't stress enough how much more amazing archwing would look and feel from this effect. It would really take form and look like an entirely new module of the game and not just a tacked on gimmick (no offense!). I can only hope that what I'm asking for is not an impossible task because of engine restrictions.

 

To help, I'll leave you with a video from Dead Space 2 which is the only game I've played where you control an actual person (as opposed to a ship) w/ similar camera and aiming system to Warframe and also contains zero-gravity sections.

 

http://youtu.be/YfyFwC5T7RM?t=3m37s

Notice how the regular third-person camera/aim system is dropped completely and seamlessly to zero gravity controls and aiming with the press of a button - No loading times, no separate game module.

i agree so hardcore on this, that up and down stuff has to go go go , gimme the disorientating stuff, that is space :D

[TaylorsContraction]

+1 for this.

 

We already have the jump key act to orient us up and the crouch key orient us down. Thus there would be no confusion as we can use those to always orient us upright or downright. Would love full 360 rotation.

 

Worst case scenario make it a toggle in options as has already been suggested.

[Ampoth]

DE said this was too disorienting in testing. It seems to me that waypoint markers and such would help, so I'm hoping they change their minds.

 

You know, I remember when they said this, but now that I think about it, I find it unlikely that they tested it much at all, and instead the dev working on it just didn't like it.

[onichomp]

i honestly think they released archwing way too early, it seems as if they didnt flesh it out nearly as well as they could have before release, i think this would be a great addition though.

 

it is still in its baby stages though so i guess we will just have to give it some time, it definitely has the capabilities of being an awesome game mode but...no right now, hell no.

Edited February 20, 2015 by onichomp

[ClockworkSpectre]

They really need to give archwing the feeling of being in space, and right now, there is a clear up and down, and you can't keep rotating up/down.  This all ruins the feeling of being in space.  Even it if is disorienting at first, you would get used to it, and it would make the game mode so much better. 

[NickBoay]

They really need to give archwing the feeling of being in space, and right now, there is a clear up and down, and you can't keep rotating up/down.  This all ruins the feeling of being in space.  Even it if is disorienting at first, you would get used to it, and it would make the game mode so much better. 

yep it will be disorientating at first but we will get used to it your right, i agree on the disorientating stuff free cam all directions

[Bibliothekar]

Sorry man, but unless they do it very well i can't agree on making the gameplay harder.

For me, it makes gameplay much harder that I have a cone of 10-20° above and below me where I can't aim at enemies and have to do weird manoeuvres to shoot at them. I really wish I could do a full roll in any direction and pull off some Top Gun tier moves. If it makes my teammate sick when I pass him upside-down - eh, not my problem. I have to deal with bright pink Molecular Prime explosions and stuff like that, too ...

Edited February 20, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I suppose one issue of having a large area to fly toward capital ships, is that those capitol ships currently occupy the same sized area maps. So you would need a map many times larger than present in order to do that.

 

This is assuming that the Corpus ships are using the full sized Archwing maps. If not, then they could defiantly do both, and should.

 

If they can't, than perhaps smaller ships, corvettes, or patrol vessels, might work.

[noveltyhero]

^ Seriously? That's such a weak reason to leave such an important part of SPACE COMBAT out. I mean, get used to it or don't go playing a space-themed game/module.

 

Maybe just an 'orient to ground' hotkey? Also featured in Dead Space 2...  and possibly an option to have it constantly active for those who aren't ninja enough.

We've discussed this already, have a gameplay option for "Archwing Free Axis" where the experienced pilots get to actually fly, those who are less experienced or don't want to do it can leave it off and have the current system of flying.

[MartinVole]

Honestly Archwing too needs more variety. You can only go so far with interceptions, exterminations, and sabotage. We still lack things like epic space bosses and things of that nature. Is why I'm looking forward to J3 Golem to make archwing more dynamic.

[Tigersight]

The issue is the Euler angle system we use to aim. Since we have roll locked, aiming at angles approaching +-90 degrees leave us (partially) gimbal locked so we can't aim effectively.

 

Using quaternions would solve the problem handily, but it would require a hell of a lot of new code and math and work for whatever poor schmuck would have to implement the system, and that's if it's something they even can change, it might be written into the engine. In which case they'd have to spend even more time monkeying with the engine, if they can even do that. (Pretty sure they could, the Evolution engine is modifiable as far as I know?)

 

But whatever the case, fixing it could be a hell of a task.

 

A somewhat simpler solution would be to unlock the rotation axis, remove the hardcap on pitch, (also possibly engine related issues) and translate yaw into roll automatically. That would solve the issue of getting locked near +-90 degrees on pitch, but would require some really, really funky math to avoid gimbal lock at 90 degrees, and to figure out what to do at >90 degrees. Preferably dealing with it in a way that doesn't cause the game to crash.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Tigersight

[Bibliothekar]

Pretty sure they could, the Evolution engine is modifiable as far as I know?

The Evolution Engine is DE's very own product, so they can add whatever the heck they want to it.

*makes note to read more about quaternions after a good night's sleep*

[MartinVole]

Well I like it but Archwing DOES need more dynamic.

 

No... just... NO

 

Why would you want this??

 

Archwing Assassination would not be a bad idea, nor would uncommon tougher/bigger encounters. There's nothing wrong with fighting big enemies, do it all the time in standard WF play. Somebody marks it and we gather to take it out. Smaller maps though... probably not, I can agree there. Scaling is a minor issue though, but that is not with the map.

Edited February 21, 2015 by MartinVole

[Tigersight]

The Evolution Engine is DE's very own product, so they can add whatever the heck they want to it.

*makes note to read more about quaternions after a good night's sleep*

Huh, I didn't know that. That makes the changes dramatically easier. Thanks. :D

[ThePresident777]

Not everyone gets disoriented.  There should have been an option to go full 3d movement.

[MartinVole]

Especially those of us who have played Descent? Eh? Ehh?

 

*"get with the times!" comment incoming...*

[Old_King_Belgothia]

Bumping this thread. Archwing still looks ridiculously unpolished despite being out for so long now. I'll say again that giving the game actual zero gravity camera and controls would be a huge help at making it look like a proper packaged content. As it stands  it's still just Warframes flying around in a space-themed tileset.

 

I know not many players might demand this, because in case you haven't noticed Archwing isn't exactly hot stuff to community. Doing this will create a huge visual and tactical change to Archwing that will get people talking about it. And yes you will get 100s of players saying it's even worse... but that'll go away as those kinds of people aren't much into space flying games anyway if they can't handle zero-G and are not the kinds of players you need to please when it comes to this fantastic module of Warframe.

 

Archwing has massive potential and I sincerely hope it gets polished up in these vital ways before you start trying to link it to ground-based missions or even putting it under water (DE what are you doing?) where this gravity-stricken 'space' module's issues will suddenly become a lot harder to change thanks to more levels and overall mission concepts being based upon it and linking to ground-based gameplay.

 

In otherwords, the longer this issue goes unresolved and the more content added under the current Archwing camera/aim/control, we might pass the point of no return in terms of budget and man hours DE can actually expend to redo this important aspect of the module. I can honestly say, I'm just waiting for this to be redone to proper space module and haven;t touched this part of Warframe because of it. I would hate for it to be forever doomed to the mediocrity and cheap, short-lived thrills that it is right now.

Edited April 13, 2015 by MrDaylight

[DSpite]

Especially those of us who have played Descent? Eh? Ehh?

 

*"get with the times!" comment incoming...*

 

I once showed a mate I could still play Descent multiplayer dofights with a key held down that spun me clockwise. You can get used to a lot of things, and if the engine supported it you could simply add "free flight mode" and people could choose the control system they wanted.

 

I fail to see why I would choose it in maps where we fight on ships though. Descent had no enforced map orientation, Corpus ships have. "Free Mode" would bring nothing to the table in terms of gameplay there.

 

In Descent, there was one map in multiplayer where a handful of us would use this big room with a very dark area at the top like a bat-cave. We would park there, engines to the "ceiling" and wait for fights to start below, then swoop in for kills.

 

If you give me maps that are simply a long linear corridor, with a definite "floor" and "ceiling", then there would be no real combat advantage in "Free Mode" anyway, you can't outmaneuver or outrun enemies, so we would stick to just face-and-shoot like we do now.

 

Combat inside a hollowed out Asteroid however ... bring it on.

[Mesyra]

DE said this was too disorienting in testing. 

they must have never played a space sim.

 

we need controls like freelancer, full 3d control, and AW will never be good enough until we have pure controls.

[egregiousRac]

they must have never played a space sim.

 

we need controls like freelancer, full 3d control, and AW will never be good enough until we have pure controls.

 

I think the issue is that any space sim has a space sim HUD, while Archwing just has a reskinned TPS HUD.

 

As an example, I was just doing some combat in Star Citizen and a bug broke my minimap, crosshairs, and all beacons. Suddenly I had no reference elements if I got spun, meaning that I would have to spin around looking for a landmark to tell me where I was. It was suddenly much more disorienting simply because the UI wasn't there.

 

In short, Archwing is planarly locked because DE didn't have time to make a real UI.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I think the issue is that any space sim has a space sim HUD, while Archwing just has a reskinned TPS HUD.

 

As an example, I was just doing some combat in Star Citizen and a bug broke my minimap, crosshairs, and all beacons. Suddenly I had no reference elements if I got spun, meaning that I would have to spin around looking for a landmark to tell me where I was. It was suddenly much more disorienting simply because the UI wasn't there.

 

In short, Archwing is planarly locked because DE didn't have time to make a real UI.

 

That's still kind of a lame excuse (for them--not saying you're wrong). If they needed to wait to release it they should have. Unfortunately it looks like it's getting the typical treatment of in-game systems and modes, meaning we have to wait at least 4 months between any hint of any changes. Then when we get one it falls back to the bottom of the priority list again.

[egregiousRac]

That's still kind of a lame excuse (for them--not saying you're wrong). If they needed to wait to release it they should have. Unfortunately it looks like it's getting the typical treatment of in-game systems and modes, meaning we have to wait at least 4 months between any hint of any changes. Then when we get one it falls back to the bottom of the priority list again.

 

This is the problem with having so much breadth in a game that only has a few people in some very major jobs. Design decisions and UI changes take forever because there are only a few people doing those things.