How To Spy 2.0

[[DE]Whirrrrr]

just to clarify, you're working on 6 more rooms, and plus the 3 rooms we have that'll be 9 room right? cos I read somewhere from a dev post that 3 new rooms will be added in U16 

6 rooms total (3 for each faction), so we'll have 6 Grineer and 6 Corpus vaults when they're released.

[xkillo32]

only tried the new spy mission with loki only

ima try it with other frames later

[StallordD]

Nothing in my post was about confusion.

And why are you talking about planet ranks when i was discussing vaults themselves?

But you clearly said that the vaults weren't confusing to you, but before that you said that you couldn't figure them out easily. That's kinda the definition of confusing. As for planet rank, I was also discussing vaults. Vaults are in Spy missions. Spy missions are on planet nodes. Planet nodes are on planets. Therefore, the difficulty of the planet and the node has a direct impact on the difficulty of what you encounter in the mission. And since vaults are in said missions, they are affected by the difficulty of the planet.

[StallordD]

just a retort to a statement in the video. Ogris and angstrum are actually 100% silent. All launchers are. It's silly but true

I thought they had fixed that a while ago.

[StallordD]

Real spies don't need ciphers, StallorD. 

It's unfortunately clear that not everyone is a real spy :(

[Bibliothekar]

the result of collecting all the codecs and plugging them into the "machine" was very anti-climatic. 

IMHO the final message should have been something similar like that scene in Firefly when they plug the video in and the lady tells how the Reavers were created, in our case why the Tenno turned on the Oriken, that would really have added to the Lore.

My initial reaction was pretty much the same. But when I talked about it with a friend, he said that this message might be the harbinger of things to come. Maybe a new Infested boss, maybe the return of the Sentients, maybe something else that we called from the darkness beyond the void by activating that machine. We'll see what the future brings. After all, it's just a short quest to introduce the new Spy, not some huge event, so expecting a revelation as big as you suggested seems a little too much.

 

Real spies don't need ciphers, StallorD. 

I prefer to bring Ciphers to hack those Grineer carousels because of that stupid input lag.

[(PSN)timbob90210]

You my friend are not the "average" WF player.

 

Two things:

1) You are willing to switch your pitch up to suit the needs of the mission.

2) You actually use the dodging and evasive maneuvers.

 

Nice stuff! 

 

I don't think you give warframe players enough credit. I don't even think the people on the forums are the majority of the community, much less the ones who complain about difficulty.

[RawGritz]

I don't think you give warframe players enough credit. I don't even think the people on the forums are the majority of the community, much less the ones who complain about difficulty.

Talking about what I have personally observed in-game over the past 2 years of playing. Not what people say on the forums. And even still it is my opinion based on experience with the folks I've played with. I can't speak for everyone. Just the large number of players I have gamed with.

[xxx7]

Who cares about the rewards! I'm in it for the sense of some actual damn stealth!

 

^This. Some of us (especially founders/CB players/etc.) have longed for more real stealth, and Spy 2.0 is the first step in this direction. The introduction of stealth kills was cool, but didn't really add an incentive to go stealth other than the cool animation.

[MrJxt]

max rank noise reduction mods for loud weapons are great.

 

dat exp gain

 

/contributing

[haolee510]

Thanks, StallorD. You're okay in my book.

[Mak_Gohae]

But you clearly said that the vaults weren't confusing to you, but before that you said that you couldn't figure them out easily. That's kinda the definition of confusing.

 

I said they were trail and error and that's it.

Trial and error is not hard or difficult its just trial and error. This just means you go at it and learn what not to do. And since there is no info on what can and cant be done it can become annoying. The first time i attacked the regulator i didnt know they automatically set off the alarm, i shot at them with a weapon that doesnt have a catalyst so i didnt kill him fast and because there is no info i thought it was because the weapon is weak. So the next time i attacked them i did with a powerful weapon and i got the same result. So from those two tries, which cost me the mission, i learned not to try to kill them. A failed mission just to learn this. That can be annoying to some people specially since that was just one bit and there were bunch of other stuff.

 

Trial and error is just going forward until you are stopped and go again until you are stopped again.

 

As for planet rank, I was also discussing vaults. Vaults are in Spy missions. Spy missions are on planet nodes. Planet nodes are on planets. Therefore, the difficulty of the planet and the node has a direct impact on the difficulty of what you encounter in the mission. And since vaults are in said missions, they are affected by the difficulty of the planet.

 

Vault difficulty i meant the actual makeup for the vault itself. You said that there are actually just 6 vaults so there is no gradual difficulty since they are just the same vaults. The enemy level and hacking game probably changes but the rest is the same vault. My suggestion is for the vaults to be built from easy puzzle to hard puzzle. Just the vault and not the mission. This way people can slowly introduced into what can and cannot be done. Cause right now it's just a small section of the game that's trial and error so there is no gradual learning is just remembering where you messed up.

[aoguro]

How to do Spy 2.0

-Dont use Rhino

-Dont try to kill every single moving thing

-Dont try get highest dmg possible

-Dont nuke every single room

-Dont trigger every single alarm

 

why not the rhino

 

you stomp the cams and trapalarms off, move in and get the data and walk gently out, easy way =)

[Kaotyke]

It's unfortunately clear that not everyone is a real spy :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luxMn7DRHCY

[taiiat]

trial and error

what trial and error?

you're trying to stealth kill an Enemy in a Video Game. it's a very simple concept that to do that, you kill them in one hit.

you might be able to get away with two hits if the second hit can come right after it, but generally that's going to be one hit.

you can't be stealthy if you're pumping Ammunition into an Enemy. it's pretty obvious that someone is shooting at you when you're getting hit by lead.

this is an established expectation for Stealth in Video Games. avoid it, or kill it instantly so that it can't be alerted.

the only trial and error i could see would be forgetting that Doges keep attacking things even when Invisible. so bringing a Doge to a Stealth Mission is a bad idea. (Stealth Doge being something of an exception)

something of the same goes for the Vaults. terminals to hack, which will disable something. hack one, and find out what it does. that's the good kind of trial and error, as the result won't be something bad, so find out what it's connected to.

[DitsyPixie]

Spy 2.0 is easy <= agreed

Meta bad, hurrr durr <= you wot mate...

DE's recent full retard moments only make the meta worse

 

And there are challenges based on good game design vs challenges only fueled by cheese, DE falls squarely into the latter category. DE is pretty much the opposite of From Software

[Rogunz]

Vault difficulty i meant the actual makeup for the vault itself. You said that there are actually just 6 vaults so there is no gradual difficulty since they are just the same vaults. The enemy level and hacking game probably changes but the rest is the same vault. My suggestion is for the vaults to be built from easy puzzle to hard puzzle. Just the vault and not the mission. This way people can slowly introduced into what can and cannot be done. Cause right now it's just a small section of the game that's trial and error so there is no gradual learning is just remembering where you messed up.

There is some difference.

 

Low level vaults give you much much more time than high level vaults if you set off the alarm.

 

I noticed a couple differences in corpus vaults with less cameras, and not having to deactivate the floor lasers.

[Bibliothekar]

Meta bad, hurrr durr <= you wot mate...

As far as I understood it, he doesn't say that meta is bad. But for Spy2.0 you have to think outside of the current meta, find new "optimal" loadouts.

[ZetraThorn]

Spy 2.0 Is much better than the old one. 
I can say for sure that Corpus Rooms are very easy. Grineer ones are a bit more complex IMO.

Also I was able to complete these missions with Rhino, I got 2 nodes without alarm and accidentally tripped the alarm on the 3rd one since I forgot to turn off floor lasers.

[Koloricsi]

Does Spy 2.0 really need a tutorial, the common warframe player became so incredibly dull because of the constant guns blazing gameplay that they actually need help to figure out an obvious-as-f*ck shortcut and general tips for Stealth, in a game advertised with NINJAS?!

*facepalm*

[tmtke]

There should be some more laser movement patterns on the corpus tileset, and some randomness regarding which routes are open at the beginning. Now every tile can be completed the same way every time, and there are no variations.

[DitsyPixie]

As far as I understood it, he doesn't say that meta is bad. But for Spy2.0 you have to think outside of the current meta, find new "optimal" loadouts.

 

If anything Spy 2.0 perfectly fits/reinforces the broader meta, but thats just my opinion. It was mostly aimed at the side rant he did on nullifiers.

[Rambe]

New spymissions are nice, tho there are one small thing that is big nuicance to me, those darn stealthkill animations. They are ok in maybe first 3 enemies you kill but after that I begin to hope that there would be way to just execute normal meleeattack when you are behind enemy instead that boring long and static takedown animation:

Lose control of your character, you teleport to right position behind enemy (precanned animation so you can't just piggypackjump from position where you where when you initiated attack, you get teleported to right spot first), jump to piggypack him, get your dualsword out, wait a bit, slash enemys throad, wait bit more, jump out of his piggypack, get back control to your character vs. just slash enemy half from behind. Later sound much more ninjalike (fast and efective) to me than that overly theatherical (hey everyone look at me while I sthealthy kill your friends) first option.

[aoguro]

A lot of people were saying that the new Spy missions are too confusing or difficult and that they have literally zero margin for error. I made a little video showing some super easy routes and demonstrating that the gear you take really isn't super important.

 

 

thanks a lot to you for your video, i learned a lot ... im always open for some different gameplay =)

[Bibliothekar]

New spymissions are nice, tho there are one small thing that is big nuicance to me, those darn stealthkill animations.

I agree, those animations become a bit boring after a while. In case one of the animators reads here: Perhaps we could get a few more and they are randomly chosen?

Edited February 9, 2015 by Bibliothekar