Why Not Decreasing The Power Efficiency Cap To Reduce Ability "4" Spamming

[(PSN)dday3six]

Because DE never intended for that and some people can see this and that the existence of spamming is most definitely an issue to some extent?

How is pressing one button even fun anyway

Anytime I've been on a rep farm I always see people typing( and guess what? It's not" oh gawd pressing 4 is so much FUN,") about how dreadfully boring it is to spam in the first place, and how would you expect it not to be?

With all the functions in which a person can input to actually do something in the game, you've built around only doing one thing, pressing 4; good job

You should get into coding if you think that is fun, I hear you can press 1's and 0's all day to make pictures. Gawd that sounds awesome

*1st time over ever intentionally seemed to be mean because I can't believe I actually saw this*

I'm curious how farming is ever not going to be boring and monotonus without some sort of other distraction anyway. It's pretty widely excepted that farming is going to result in boredom. Personally I do Void Survivals for rep, because it's less boring.

Spamming ults is interconnected to multiple aspects of Warframe. Whether it's mass enemy spawns, overly large maps, the relative squishiness of frames, the general lack of genuine endgame, or even the overall grind. Dispatching multiple enemies at one time is always going to result in better efficiency. The game is built around a horde of hostiles attacking a much smaller number, so just addressing power spam risks slanting too greatly in enemy's favor. Many frames spam powers at a certain point to keep themselves alive. Powers also feed the length of endless mission types. Adjusting only power spam is just as likely to create and/or exacerbate issues as it is to fix preceived ones.

[RealPandemonium]

Instead of making our abilities less available the abilities themselves should be altered so that spamming is not rewarded.

[Gilmaesh]

Issue is not Efficiency, but Range and that some abilities are abused because they can be recast- no timer for full benefit.

 

Range is mostly the problem indeed. most of the other abilities can keep their range but ulti need a cap.

Energy is still a problem though, we have too much of it with efficiency mod/flow/restore/trinity. 

Energy vampire need some adjustement.

 

I have suggested power casting fatigue. Each power has an x number of cast until it loses x% effectiveness until player stops casting and returns x% of power effectiveness per x seconds.

 

i quite like the idea.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Gilmaesh

[AlphaHorseman]

Instead of making our abilities less available the abilities themselves should be altered so that spamming is not rewarded.

"Instead of leaving our guns to be as good as we want them to be, let's add overheat to them so shooting bullets at targets is harder to maintain."

 

You see how that logic fails? Yea-no, if I want to spam all of my abilities, then I'm free to do so and nobody should be able to, and cannot, tell me otherwise. I don't tell you how to play the game, so don't try to, by design of the system, punish me for playing the game how I want to play it.

[Awazx]

[vaugahn]

if I want to spam all of my abilities, then I'm free to do so and nobody should be able to, and cannot, tell me otherwise.

 

Except for Steve, who's very specifically decried that playstyle.

[ranks21]

most of these suggestion about abilities and spamming makes no sense whatsoever, this is the identity of the game itself and what lured everyone to play the game<<< give it a rest already its not going away to please a -1% of players that want to run and gun and think everyone else should do the same.

[AlphaHorseman]

Except for Steve, who's very specifically decried that playstyle.

Oh and then released Primed Flow, and then Primed Continuity, and then Primed Streamline is on the way even after he said that, even after Vivergate? Actions speak louder than words.

 

They are not stopping us from playing how we want to play, they are putting obstacles for us to overcome (i.e. Nullifiers) through other means, but they do not stop us from playing with freedom.

Edited February 18, 2015 by AlphaHorseman

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

We don't really want a "nerf" I wouldn't say.  We want a proper rework of the system that rewards strategy over spam.  I personally don't think cooldowns will do anything for it, that's like trying to tackle a screw with a hammer.

[Gilmaesh]

Except for Steve, who's very specifically decried that playstyle.

 

i was going to say that

 

"Instead of leaving our guns to be as good as we want them to be, let's add overheat to them so shooting bullets at targets is harder to maintain."

 

You see how that logic fails? Yea-no, if I want to spam all of my abilities, then I'm free to do so and nobody should be able to, and cannot, tell me otherwise. I don't tell you how to play the game, so don't try to, by design of the system, punish me for playing the game how I want to play it.

 

no, i don't see the logic, you can't kill everything in a room in 1sec with just one click of your mouse with your weapon.

[vaugahn]

Oh and then released Primed Flow, and then Primed Continuity, and then Primed Streamline is on the way even after he said that, even after Vivergate? Actions speak louder than words.

 

They are not stopping us from playing how we want to play, they are putting obstacles for us to overcome (i.e. Nullifiers) through other means, but they do not stop us from playing with freedom.

 

Steve isn't the only dev. 

 

And they need to grow a pair and start stopping people. Anyone with eyes can see that the ability spam farm meta is dragging this game downhill.

[Sev7n]

Decreasing or removing power efficiency of the game would help stop the power spam if other steps were taken along with it. 

 

If they also

 

- added a cap on how many energy restores you could take into a mission

 

- and either remove energy vampire or altered it in a way it can not be used so frequently 

 

Then i think your idea would work well in controlling the spam we see today

[AlphaHorseman]

no, i don't see the logic, you can't kill everything in a room in 1sec with just one click of your mouse with your weapon.

Is it so wrong that players can do that? Not really, people play however they wish, if they wanna spam powers, let them, if they wanna use their guns, let them, punishing them for playing however they want to play isn't an avenue that sounds like a good way to take the game.

 

Steve isn't the only dev. 

 

And they need to grow a pair and start stopping people. Anyone with eyes can see that the ability spam farm meta is dragging this game downhill.

Hahaha-no. In your opinion they need to stop ability spamming, but that's just a way people play the game. You fail to realize that most of us don't spam that one ability, we spam all our abilities throughout missions whenever their uses call for it. Adding in cooldowns doesn't just stop the farm meta, it stops all of us who like being casters on our frames, rather than just run and gun. 

 

Oh please, it isn't dragging the game downhill, in your view, sure, I don't know how though. The only places where you can actually farm like that on the Star Map are on the small Defense and Interception maps, and not to mention that the Corpus and the Infested both have units that mitigate (or even block) AoE damage abilities, leaving the Grineer as the only farmable faction, on these small maps. Literally there are very few places that actually have these criteria fulfilled, not even 10% of the content. Sure, it grows if you've got an ult that does higher damage, but not by much.

[vaugahn]

Is it so wrong that players can do that? Not really, people play however they wish, if they wanna spam powers, let them, if they wanna use their guns, let them, punishing them for playing however they want to play isn't an avenue that sounds like a good way to take the game.

 

And here's where the problems begin: someone using their guns can't affect the playstyle of a spammer, but a spammer can affect the playstyle of everyone in the game with them.

[AlphaHorseman]

And here's where the problems begin: someone using their guns can't affect the playstyle of a spammer, but a spammer can affect the playstyle of everyone in the game with them.

There is such a thing as talking to people, since, y'know, if you're in a co-op match, it would be smart to actually be cooperative, rather than be silent about it. There's also such a thing as making another Pub match, or private match, or playing with friends, or creating a group, or going solo, or going to recruiting, or...blah blah blah. There are literally so many options to avoid playing with people you don't like to play with, failure to utilize these options doesn't mean the core mechanics of a game needs to change.

[Kasarian]

And here's where the problems begin: someone using their guns can't affect the playstyle of a spammer, but a spammer can affect the playstyle of everyone in the game with them.

 

And then lets limit the ammo pools so that gun users won't impact melee fighters, I mean it'll only be fair since those poor bastards have to run to every single enemy for them just to be moved down by gun users...

[Gilmaesh]

There is such a thing as talking to people, since, y'know, if you're in a co-op match, it would be smart to actually be cooperative, rather than be silent about it. There's also such a thing as making another Pub match, or private match, or playing with friends, or creating a group, or going solo, or going to recruiting, or...blah blah blah. There are literally so many options to avoid playing with people you don't like to play with, failure to utilize these options doesn't mean the core mechanics of a game needs to change.

 

The same old tune go solo blablabla

 

And then lets limit the ammo pools so that gun users won't impact melee fighters, I mean it'll only be fair since those poor bastards have to run to every single enemy for them just to be moved down by gun users...

 

And again, a gun user can't kill everything in 1 click. there is no problem having your share of mob with melee vs guns.

And you know it.

[AlphaHorseman]

The same old tune go solo blablabla

 

 

And again, a gun user can't kill everything in 1 click. there is no problem having your share of mob with melee vs guns.

And you know it.

Your inability to comprehend the entirety of the post is astounding, but since apparently you can't read it well enough, here you go:

 

"There is such a thing as talking to people, since, y'know, if you're in a co-op match, it would be smart to actually be cooperative, rather than be silent about it. There's also such a thing as making another Pub match, or private match, or playing with friends, or creating a group, or going solo, or going to recruiting, or...blah blah blah. There are so many options to avoid playing with the people you don't like to play with, failure to utilize these options doesn't mean the core mechanics of a game need to change."

 

Did any of that just simply say solo? No it did not, your inability to use your options does not merit a game change.

 

A gun user can kill everything from a distance whereas a melee user has to get up close and personal. There is no problem having your killing sprees using guns, melee, or powers. And you know it.

[Sev7n]

There is such a thing as talking to people, since, y'know, if you're in a co-op match, it would be smart to actually be cooperative, rather than be silent about it. There's also such a thing as making another Pub match, or private match, or playing with friends, or creating a group, or going solo, or going to recruiting, or...blah blah blah. There are literally so many options to avoid playing with people you don't like to play with, failure to utilize these options doesn't mean the core mechanics of a game needs to change.

This is a "use band - aids to solve the issue" type of argument and does very little in backing up your side of the discussion

 

And then lets limit the ammo pools so that gun users won't impact melee fighters, I mean it'll only be fair since those poor bastards have to run to every single enemy for them just to be moved down by gun users...

I think you are forgetting or dont understand that

 

-Movement is quick enough to allow melee users to reach enemy units quick enough to allow time to destroy them before gun users

 

-Gun users are forced to reload and worry about ammo efficiency allowing extra windows of opportunity for melee users to dispatch enemies

[AlphaHorseman]

This is a "use band - aids to solve the issue" type of argument and does very little in backing up your side of the discussion

 

I think you are forgetting or dont understand that

 

-Movement is quick enough to allow melee users to reach enemy units quick enough to allow time to destroy them before gun users

 

-Gun users are forced to reload and worry about ammo efficiency allowing extra windows of opportunity for melee users to dispatch enemies

Oh itʻs not a bandaid, its an actual solution that people fail to use, so they want the game to change so they donʻt have to use their options. The game shouldnʻt have to change simply because people find pub matches with players who differ in play styles, thatʻs pretty much the chances we all get with any pubs.

 

-(Most) Guns also have an unlimited range, meaning you can go ahead and kill enemies before theyʻre in effective range of your melee or your powers

 

-Because 1-3 seconds is a big enough window for a melee guy to kill off a whole squad when the gun user or powers guy can just use their weapons/powers to dispatch the threats.

 

The jist is that each play style is different and has is drawbacks and benefits, but the system shouldn't punish one or the other for being good at doing their job or being utilized.

[sanj66]

i actually agree with alpha, the reason is as i stated before reducing usability of powers just makes the game another generic shooter, the game is warframe it should focus more on the actual warframes than guns and melee weapons, as it is warframes are overshadowed by both and are stuck most than often to utility.

[Sev7n]

i actually agree with alpha, the reason is as i stated before reducing usability of powers just makes the game another generic shooter, the game is warframe it should focus more on the actual warframes than guns and melee weapons, as it is warframes are overshadowed by both and are stuck most than often to utility.

This is not true. To resemble a generic shooter warframe would have to completely remove its powers, parkour, and melee combo's. 

The game itself should be focused on a balance of use with all combat mechanics together. <Isn't this how the game is advertised?

 

 

[Kasarian]

This is a "use band - aids to solve the issue" type of argument and does very little in backing up your side of the discussion

 

I think you are forgetting or dont understand that

 

-Movement is quick enough to allow melee users to reach enemy units quick enough to allow time to destroy them before gun users

 

-Gun users are forced to reload and worry about ammo efficiency allowing extra windows of opportunity for melee users to dispatch enemies

 

This made me laugh, like really laugh out loud. I have no idea who you play with but i would really, like REALLY see you try go againts Boltor Prime users that have way too many ammo restores. Guns not only have unlimited range but most of them are hitscan or close enough.  Reload doesn't take longer than 2 to 3 seconds on most "medium" guns. Also I'd really like to see swordsman being faster at dispatching enemies scattered across huge tile than gun user. My point being we could nerf each playstyle to no end with no real benefit in the name of equality when the simplest solution would be to play solo or find people with similiar play style and stick to them without changing mechanics of the game hurting everyone in the result.

[Sev7n]

This made me laugh, like really laugh out loud. I have no idea who you play with but i would really, like REALLY see you try go againts Boltor Prime users that have way too many ammo restores. Guns not only have unlimited range but most of them are hitscan or close enough.  Reload doesn't take longer than 2 to 3 seconds on most "medium" guns. Also I'd really like to see swordsman being faster at dispatching enemies scattered across huge tile than gun user. My point being we could nerf each playstyle to no end with no real benefit in the name of equality when the simplest solution would be to play solo or find people with similiar play style and stick to them without changing mechanics of the game hurting everyone in the result.

Then your obviously confused on how melee game play works in the game.

A gun user has to be careful about taking damage meaning they have to position themselves carefully or constantly move around to different safe positions. A melee user on the other hand can charge straight into the middle of enemies damaging them on the way there and remain in the group of enemies until they are all destroyed.

 

The difference here is that a gun user can initiate the fight quicker but the melee user can remain in combat longer which helps balance out the killing potential.

 

Reloading takes 2-3 seconds, involves pulling away from combat to cover to avoid damage, and happens more than once.

 

If you were to estimate the amount of time it takes someone to reload and jump straight back into combat to 4 seconds. And the user reloads 10x a mission; then that means the user is out of combat for 40 seconds in a mission.

 

The melee user doesnt have to worry about this. The only time they are out of combat is when they are having to move from enemy to enemy but because of directional melee and coptering it can be done almost instantly meaning the melee user can consistently kill enemies while the gun the user is forced to stop combat at the end of every clip.  

 

 

 

So although you dont understand it there is balance already between melee users and gun users. Could melee users use a little bit more love? Possibly, but they are not overpowered by the gun users as you suggest.

[Kasarian]

Then your obviously confused on how melee game play works in the game.

A gun user has to be careful about taking damage meaning they have to position themselves carefully or constantly move around to different safe positions. A melee user on the other hand can charge straight into the middle of enemies damaging them on the way there and remain in the group of enemies until they are all destroyed.

 

The difference here is that a gun user can initiate the fight quicker but the melee user can remain in combat longer which helps balance out the killing potential.

 

Reloading takes 2-3 seconds, involves pulling away from combat to cover to avoid damage, and happens more than once.

 

If you were to estimate the amount of time it takes someone to reload and jump straight back into combat to 4 seconds. And the user reloads 10x a mission; then that means the user is out of combat for 40 seconds in a mission.

 

The melee user doesnt have to worry about this. The only time they are out of combat is when they are having to move from enemy to enemy but because of directional melee and coptering it can be done almost instantly meaning the melee user can consistently kill enemies while the gun the user is forced to stop combat at the end of every clip.  

 

 

 

So although you dont understand it there is balance already between melee users and gun users. Could melee users use a little bit more love? Possibly, but they are not overpowered by the gun users as you suggest.

 

Now there's something you don't understand with melee combat aparently.

 

Coptering. That's not melee combat. That's performing a Manuver over and over until your target is dead, it looks ridiculous and for all the time I've been playing I've NEVER seen people coptering againts enemies with exception of single enemies which were killed on the way somewhere or when somebody just screwed around for fun. It also drains your Stamina. There's also many reason why this form of fighting is either inefficient or useless or even straight dangerous to simply using a gun but don't want to dwell on that one.

 

Gun user that didn't left his brain in the refrigerator will NOT stand in one place shooting stuff but will always be on the move and at optimum range that won't allow enemy to have an easy target but at the same time not to hinder to aim and shoot at em. Stationary target is dead target in Warframe since the less target is moving the higher accurate are the mobs here. Unless you take cover behind any of the Abilities that soak damage/nullify all those bullets (Volts Shields, Frosts Globe or Zephyrs "shield" for example).

 

Melee user on the way to his target can't damage anything unless he is already there, unless you are referring to using guns/abilities on the way. Also while charging straight on Melee user has to worry about either getting shot in the face or running out of stamina while blocking (which is further drained by many manoeuvres used to get to enemies) which ends in getting shot to the face.

 

Who could remain longer in a fight is highly debatable since that depends heavily on tileset we're on, enemies type and level, weapons used and so on, but my bet would be on Gun users as they don't have to worry about getting shot in the back while running for cover when things go bad.

 

Now a little note*:

Enemies 1-10

To both Users its childsplay, for most of the time you think its cute how mobs fight till the very end and feels more like execution than actual fight. While kill with single attack/bullet Gun user is at advantage since he doesnt have to run at each and every enemy to kill him while melee user has to.

Enemies 11-20

Still easy for both sides but since enemies just don't fall to single glare Guns users are at disadvantage since they need to reload more often while Melee users still got 1hit/kill ratio.

Enemies 21-30

Things get interesting. While enemies don't die from both sides all that fast they are only challenge only if you screw around too much, and that goes for both users BUT while Gun users are more or less safe Melee users are at risk of being shot down if not careful or surrounded.

Enemies 31-40

Enemies attacks are having a punch, since Melee users are at point blank enemies are more likely to hit them and kill them while at the same time Gun users are at optimum range taking down enemies one by one only to hide for 2-3 seconds** to reload. While being on the move will help againts the Corpus, without any form of healing melee users are bound to be killed by bleed proc from hitscan fanatics (grineer) or succumb to poison damage from the infestation.

**Can be considered as more an advatnage since when Gun user get his shields dropped down he can hide behind cover and wait for recharge while Melee user has a high chance of being in Bleedout. (unless saved by Guardian)

Enemies 40+

Good luck with melee there. Gun users also have problems but are less likely to get surrounded.

 

 

Of course there is also matter of frames and team composition etc but personally I don't see melee dedicated players/frames for high void because melee is simply useless at this point of game or just too hard for people to bother themselves with.

 

 

*Does not consider usage of skills or dedicated frames for both playstyles (meaning "ingeneral", overall how it is, not how it looks on Rhino with Iron skin with Boltor or Valkyr charging on Hysteria)

 

EDIT: What I'm suggesting is Melee users are at heavy disadvantage but I don't see people ranting about that, instead every gun user rants how spamming skills ruins their fun.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Kasarian