Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[Feallike]

10-16 hours per day 

 

Yaaa...... You need to calm down brah... o.o 

 

 

Also this is a MMO what can you expect, yes this is a MMO. Its massive, its multiplayer, its online. its a MMO! So yes it can have as much grind as a regular MMO. :/

[Davoodoo]

Another point. The real problem, that probably nobody understands, is that GRIND is the only answer to exagerate nerds, spending more than 1-2 hours per day on the game.

I wonder then how can blizzard get away with ppl asking to delay patch due to too many ppl not completing content yet...

 

You dont need to do grind, you need to make it challenging enough so hardcore players wont have enough time to be bored after completing it.

 

Grind isnt the only answer, its laziest one.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Phatose]

Sigh...this is what you get for trying to help people.

 

Dont bite the hand that helps you. You wanna enjoy not obtaining anything and never being able to earn stuff that temporary or exclusive or afford anything thats expensive, whatever, go nuts, but dont enforce your 'I dont want to' onto other people. You speak for yourself.

 

Im trying to fix the economy. It IS broken.

 

No, fine,  continue to bicker about what the topic isnt about and eat each other alive. Cant help some people see straight.

 

Consider the simplest, easiest way to fix the economy though.  Not lowering prices, not changing grind - none of that's needed.

 

DE can just start the second rotation.  Instant fix.

 

Would even be the perfect time for it, since the consoles get their very first visit from Baro this week, and cycling around would put all platforms in sync.

 

And just like that, all the problems you've complained about evaporate.  The psychological need to try to do all this in 2 weeks goes away the moment it becomes crystal clear these are on a rotation.

[Burnthesteak87]

I wonder then how can blizzard get away with ppl asking to delay patch due to too many ppl not completing content yet...

 

You dont need to do grind, you need to make it challenging enough so hardcore players wont have enough time to be bored after completing it.

 

Grind isnt the only answer, its laziest one.

Maybe Blizzy is around by almost a decade, way richer and is a way greater videogame company? mmm do you understand?

Eheh since you refuse my point what do you know can work instead of Grind? Can you find a valuable alternative? Or you'll offer other easy sentences?

Edited February 17, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[MDRLOz]

Tbh I think OP needed this as two separate threads, one about void trader ducat grind and one about the amount of fusion power required to max a primed rank 10 and  a separate ones about crazy void trader grind.

 

Now primed mods do take a long time to do but you can slowly work towards them. However the problem with the void trader is that WE DO NOT KNOW if and when we will see these items again. DE may have said on a live stream they will cycle but many promises on live streams have never been fulfilled. E.g. event weapons will return they are just in the "Disney vault". No event weapon has ever been brought back and been obtainable through another source. So until we see these cycle we can only assume that they wont cycle. 

 

Also I think Draciusen has had the best summary of the situation so far:

 

*Snip*

 

So please can people stop saying that you don't "need" to do this and acquire these items. 

 

The point is that it is impossible to do this even if you are able to commit massive amounts of time to trying. 

 

Consider the simplest, easiest way to fix the economy though.  Not lowering prices, not changing grind - none of that's needed.

 

DE can just start the second rotation.  Instant fix.

 

Would even be the perfect time for it, since the consoles get their very first visit from Baro this week, and cycling around would put all platforms in sync.

 

And just like that, all the problems you've complained about evaporate.  The psychological need to try to do all this in 2 weeks goes away the moment it becomes crystal clear these are on a rotation.

Rather than a restart to his items it would be better if he brought one-two new items and two-three old items 

Edited February 17, 2015 by MDRLOz

[Kihana]

The arguments against completionists are just as weak as the arguments for completionists.

 

Please stop telling people what they are allowed to post. Take away the obvious answer, that your not supposed to get and max everything, and there suddenly becomes little room for anyone who disagrees. Counter arguements are counter arguements whether you or the OP approves of them or not.

 

The completionsist are the only reason DE needs to set the bar so high in the first place. It would not have been an arbitrary decision.

[Phatose]

 

Rather than a restart to his items it would be better if he brought one-two new items and two-three old items 

 

 

Bringing new items would continue the psychological "must get now cause it might not be back, and it's an ever growing list" that's causing this trouble in the first place.   A simple rotation works better - cuts the idea of items never coming back off, and simultaneously makes clear it's not going to be an infinitely growing list.

 

A rotation means sooner or later it's going to be just old stuff.  Might as well get to that point sooner then later, restore player's sanity.

[aegof]

I look at the primed mods like I look at serration/redirection/link health, and every other ten-rank mods in the game.  I rank it up enough to be useful, then figure I'll get to the rest eventually.  That the eventually may be longer with the primed mods than the common ones is pretty irrelevant in the face of the amount of time I could potentially be playing the game.

[Davoodoo]

Maybe Blizzy is around by almost a decade, way richer and is a way greater videogame company? mmm do you understand?

Eheh since you refuse my point what do you know can work instead of Grind? Can you find a valuable alternative? Or you'll offer other easy sentences

Since when do you need to be huge company to do difficulty right?? Not that de isnt on fps market since 1999 and havent worked on shooters for over a decade now with some impressive titles on account.

Dark souls with minimalistic budget(no hard numbers but only 1.7mil copies sold still deemed huge commercial success) have 4 hours worth of gameplay, stretched out to up to 60 hours with smart difficulty and learning curve.

Btw blizzard was keeping up with that feat for over a decade too and nothing really changed.

 

Its not easy sentence, its simply easier to not bother with difficulty tweaking and then wonder why single player games dont sell well anymore, aaa spews this crap all the time.

DE screwed up difficulty, so all thats left for longevity of game is grind, so why do you wonder why ppl actually want grind to be possible to complete since its the only thing left to do??

Edited February 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

I agree with OP's point. For many who like this kind of game, part of the fun is being a completionist. This doesn't mean that it should be too simple, but taking years to rank up all of the mods even if you play daily seems a bit much IMHO. And with new items and mods being added so frequently, it's not like there would be too long to wait for new stuff. Make me want to keep playing because the game play is fun (which it is), not because the grind-wall is so high that I can't ever complete. 

 

And yes, I understand I don't have to buy all the mods and don't have to rank each up. I choose to. For many players, that is a big part of playing to have fun, but making it too difficult will discourage those players from wanting to continue in the same hardcore way they would have otherwise.

 

I don't mean this as a complaint per se, just as an observation. Some completionists will get discouraged and eventually want to quit if the grind wall becomes too high. That doesn't mean goals should be easy and devalue the feeling of achievement. But, I think an overall view of how long is a reasonable time frame for maxing/achieving all within the game should be kept in mind if DE sees completionists as an important part of their player base. 

[MDRLOz]

Bringing new items would continue the psychological "must get now cause it might not be back, and it's an ever growing list" that's causing this trouble in the first place.   A simple rotation works better - cuts the idea of items never coming back off, and simultaneously makes clear it's not going to be an infinitely growing list.

 

A rotation means sooner or later it's going to be just old stuff.  Might as well get to that point sooner then later, restore player's sanity.

The problem with simply restarting on to a second cycle now is that we will start a whole slew of complaints that "void trader has become pointless till new stuff appears" or that "Now what am I supposed to do with all my primes/ducats". 

 

The void trade needs to keep bringing out new stuff so we are hungry for the new stuff and spend our ducats. The problem is that at present we need to get 1100 per fortnight to keep up. Possibly DE are trying to keep producing stuff so quickly that they can get ahead of us in the Ducat race. 

 

If you reduced the amount of new stuff down to 1-2 items per fortnight and brought out old stuff it would reduce the amount of ducats needed to be acquired in a fortnight alleviating the grind pressure and also providing opportunities for people who missed other stuff sold earlier.

[Phatose]

I have trouble seeing that as an actual problem, seeing as we've had complaints even from the most hardcore of grinders that they can't keep up.  If the most hardcore of grinders aren't keeping up, then it's safe to say that everyone who isn't a no-lifer, as OP declared, still have plenty of things to spend their ducats on, as they'll be quite far behind.

 

What you're suggesting only alleviates grind pressure for the most hardcore of grinders.  Anyone not doing the 16 hour a day still has the same pressure on.  If we're going to give people a chance to catch up, then that should really extend to everyone, not be custom tailored to the desires of the most hardcore grinders.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

Oh, guys you-dont-need-to.

 

Let me some examples.

 

-- Bombardirs is to OP.

-- You don't need to go at T3-T4 void.

 

-- I wan't suggest some cool idea.

-- You don't need to nothing, all just nice.

 

-- Gammacor is to OP.

-- You don't need to use any other weapon.

 

-- Warframe has few small bugs.

-- You don't need to play it.

 

Now you see the point?

You don't need to post yours "You don't need to" at forum even.

[Phatose]

I can't one shot enemies at 2 hours in a T4 survival with an unmodded Mk-1 Braton.  Since "You don't need to" isn't an acceptable response, better get on fixing that right away, huh?  And I can't run through walls, never mind that I can walk around them instead so I don't need to.  And I can't win a solo exterminate mission without killing anybody.  Sure, I don't need to do that....but it's still problem just cause I want to do that, right?

 

"You don't need to" is actually quite relevant, and I'd go as far as to say necessary to deal with player expectations that aren't necessarily reasonable.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Phatose

[Kizlev]

Sigh...this is what you get for trying to help people.

Dont bite the hand that helps you. You wanna enjoy not obtaining anything and never being able to earn stuff that temporary or exclusive or afford anything thats expensive, whatever, go nuts, but dont enforce your 'I dont want to' onto other people. You speak for yourself.

Im trying to fix the economy. It IS broken.

No, fine, continue to bicker about what the topic isnt about and eat each other alive. Cant help some people see straight.

Hey OP, don't you dare lose heart to the naysayers. You laid out exactly what needed to be said for the sake of the entire community. In any online game like Warframe that is in perpetual Beta development mode, you will ALWAYS encounter members of the playerbase that will vehemently defend the flawed development decisions that suits their personal gameplay goals and desires. Change is tough for most people to swallow, but nothing improves without it. Ignore the opposition; they missed the entire point of this: The current model of the Warframe F2P grind system is unsustainable.

Besides all that's already been said, I think the very root of the most recent problems that complicate the economy is none other than Void Trader Baro himself and his disgusting exploitation of the Tenno with his filthy Ducky currency. Everytime he appears, I have nothing but loathing towards him. He is not worthy of being in the presence of the space ninja SAVIORS OF MANKIND. He's like a Ferengi in Star Trek (never trust a Ferengi).

Who is Baro really (besides his clever real life DE creator)? Where in the void does he get all these unique goods, and how does he obtain them? What gives him the authority to sell these things to us andto force a terrible new currency on us that creates even more wretched grind in this game? Screw him. I understand making deals with syndicates by doing work for them, we earn favors and gear in turn, but Baro is robbing us of advanced Orokin technology that rightfully belongs to the Tenno.

No...enough with the lore breaking insidious grind fest crap that Baro represents. We are Tenno. We should put 1000 skanas through him, take his void access codes/keys, and eject his sorry thieving carcass out the relay airlock. Then we venture out and claim the primed mods and shiny prisma on our own through the usual RNG. I think that's a fair solution to the game's economic problems.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Kizlev

[Temmron]

If I'll place a mountain near your city, you are going to climb it, just because it exists, right? 

 

I love climbing. I can only climb if a mountain exists( even better if its near my city)

 

But seriously dont max the stuff right away <.< you can allways max it later since sooner or later DE wont release any more primed mods (latest moment will be when every mod will be primed) so just go on farming t4 defense like a nolifer and be happy

 

Troll section (sorry dont read if you cant take a hit OP)

Well if you want to max the mods every 2 weeks you need to simply nolife more, go at the grind 24/7 and buy food when updates are coming ( I suggest white bread since it is most cost efficient)

You can sleep while passively playing with your foot and farm on 2 accounts to get more credits and cores with your left and right hand

Edited February 17, 2015 by Seyenas

[Davoodoo]

I can't one shot enemies at 2 hours in a T4 survival with an unmodded Mk-1 Braton.  Since "You don't need to" isn't an acceptable response, better get on fixing that right away, huh?  And I can't run through walls, never mind that I can walk around them instead so I don't need to.  And I can't win a solo exterminate mission without killing anybody.  Sure, I don't need to do that....but it's still problem just cause I want to do that, right?

 

"You don't need to" is actually quite relevant, and I'd go as far as to say necessary to deal with player expectations that aren't necessarily reasonable.

Theres quite a difference between fulfilling all your requests and introducing something for specific group which this group cant possibly achieve.

 

If you want to make mission for new player, you should not throw lvl100 enemies in there.

If you want to make some mods for hardcore players which can clear anything thats in game you dont introduce mods which take months worth of farm despite launching new one every 2 weeks, since these players already proven they can farm, by getting all these ducats and credits.

 

Hardcore players "dont need to" farm to have a privelege to farm some more.

[XRAY0128]

"You don't need to X"

 

That argument could be applied to anything, you don't need to get weapons, you don't need to grind mastery, you don't need to play the damned game.

 

Its a stupid argument in regards to whether or not a game is working correctly

[Phatose]

Theres quite a difference between fulfilling all your requests and introducing something for specific group which this group cant possibly achieve.

 

If you want to make mission for new player, you should not throw lvl100 enemies in there.

If you want to make some mods for hardcore players which can clear anything thats in game you dont introduce mods which take months worth of farm despite launching new one every 2 weeks, since these players already proven they can farm, by getting all these ducats and credits.

 

Hardcore players "dont need to" farm to have a privelege to farm some more.

 

There's also a difference between something a group can't possibly achieve, and something a group assumes it can't possibly achieve.  These complaints are based on the assumption that four new items a week will go on forever.

 

Plus, there's a rather large underlying assumption being made that it was introduced with the expectation that even hardcore grinders would be able to get all of these items and max. 

 

Has DE ever said you should be able to do these impossible things?  Cause that's not what I remember being told.  I remember being told it's a sink for excess prime parts built up by players, not a goal in and of itself.

[HibikiGanaha]

I can't believe you bought primed fast hands

[Davoodoo]

There's also a difference between something a group can't possibly achieve, and something a group assumes it can't possibly achieve.  These complaints are based on the assumption that four new items a week will go on forever.

 

Plus, there's a rather large underlying assumption being made that it was introduced with the expectation that even hardcore grinders would be able to get all of these items and max. 

 

Has DE ever said you should be able to do these impossible things?  Cause that's not what I remember being told.  I remember being told it's a sink for excess prime parts built up by players, not a goal in and of itself.

No matter if they will or will not, with 8 mods we currently have it will already take a year or more to max them all up without resorting to buying cores.

 

If these were never meant to be maxed why do they kept releasing them?? they could just release them all at once let you choose what you want and then maybe i would buy an argument thats its there to boost your favorite options.

 

Has anyone told you you shouldnt jump in front of a car?? no, because thats obvious. Its also obvious that when game is called free to play it should allow players to get stuff for free at reasonable rate(look dungeon keeper mobile).

I remember being told that void trader will allow us to trade our unwanted prime parts for unique rewards. So theres a price and a merchandise, not a garbage dump inside a garbage dump with reward under garbage pile.

[Phatose]

No matter if they will or will not, with 8 mods we currently have it will already take a year or more to max them all up without resorting to buying cores.

 

If these were never meant to be maxed why do they kept releasing them?? they could just release them all at once let you choose what you want and then maybe i would buy an argument thats its there to boost your favorite options.

 

Has anyone told you you shouldnt jump in front of a car?? no, because thats obvious. Its also obvious that when game is called free to play it should allow players to get stuff for free at reasonable rate(look dungeon keeper mobile).

I remember being told that void trader will allow us to trade our unwanted prime parts for unique rewards. So theres a price and a merchandise, not a garbage dump inside a garbage dump with reward under garbage pile.

 

Had they released them all at once, the immediate response of the playerbase would've been mountains of complaining - sticker shock.  Exactly the same as we have now.  Spreading them out over time like this gives players a reason to stop by once in a while and check things out, keep coming back.  Since the sticker shock would be the same either way, why not?

 

 

And you can trade unwanted prime parts for unique rewards.  That's not at all in question.  What's in question is whether obtaining *all* the unique rewards that could be acquired this way is a reasonable expectation or not.  This is not an automatic "Yes, it's reasonable", and I'm yet to hear any justification for this expectation.  I don't expect to be able to get perfect rolls on so much as a single legendary in Diablo, much less all of them - it's possible to get a perfect roll, but completely unreasonable to expect it.   Something being theoretically possible does not make it a reasonable expectation, there, or here.

 

Which is why we're see so many "You don't actually need them".   Not being able to actually obtain them all is only an issue if you expect that you should be able to obtain them all, and that's never been given a very good rationale.

[MechaKnight]

Between the grind creep and the power creep this needs to stop. Just please fix it all DE.

[Spoof310]

I mean, if you already said that you are a "no life gamer", and that you spend/play 10-16 hours per day on the game itself (which, by all means, is a pretty worrying thing in itself), I am pretty sure you could earn the required amounts to pay for all the Primed mods and possibly level them up a few. 

 

In the given time, you can't, and this is the point of this post. 

 

I agree, the prices for the primed mods and weapons are too high. I am a no-lifer myself who has managed to gain 315 hours of playtime and mastery rank 16 in about 2 months of real time (about 5 hours monday-friday and 10-12 hours on weekends) and i barely got myself the 2 primed mods last week. The Trader is coming in 2 days and i have gained ~300 ducats as of now, and i have about 250k credits because syndicate.

The Composition of the item prices and a spawnrate of every 2 weeks is a bad combination because it feels like it's supposed to be unreachable for any sane human being that isn't grinding for stuff HE DOESN'T WANT ANYWAY, only to trade it for stuff he wants but only because he doesn't know if there will ever be a chance to get it again.

[SnakeWildlife]

Hey OP, don't you dare lose heart to the naysayers. You laid out exactly what needed to be said for the sake of the entire community. In any online game like Warframe that is in perpetual Beta development mode, you will ALWAYS encounter members of the playerbase that will vehemently defend the flawed development decisions that suits their personal gameplay goals and desires.

 

Oh dont worry i havent lost heart. The games economy needs to be fixed before the bubble bursts.

 

I am only dissappointed that a lot of people, instead of debating what needs to change, simply questioned the way i (and many people) played and babbled about nothing that was on topic.

 

Its like (and im british, so dont judge me) when the Republicans in America instead of debating legislation, kept accusing Obama of not being from the country.

 

ITS NOT IMPORTANT, what's important is that the current Warframe economy IS IMPOSSIBLE, and the last thing Warframe needs...is a recession, because very soon it WILL collapse.

 

Sound serious? well it IS.

Itll mean Warframe will become a game for Whale gamers only, and anyone else wont be able to achieve what they have, and cause potential mass desertion and scare away new players. Labelling the game OFFICIALLY, as Pay-To-Win. < This will severely damage DE's revenue.

 

So are the rest of you going to start coming up with ideas and suggestions, or are you just here to judge each other and sew disharmony?...seriously people start thinking, because this IS happening and it WILL effect Warframe.

 

If it continues in this direction, i wont be inviting my friends to play this game, ill start inviting enemies.

Edited February 17, 2015 by SnakeWildlife